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Author Topic: WMS Strategy  (Read 7033 times)

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masbas3

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #150 on: May 16, 2018, 03:18:35 pm »

Surely you remember why Petrino said he hated Little Rock. What did he give you as his reasons?  Was it the condition of the stadium?  The field?  The travel?  Not being able to host recruits?  All of the above?

One thing is for sure.  Petrino couldn't have hated his 8-0 record in WMS or the crowds that showed up to support his teams.  Every single game, from Louisiana Monroe in 2008 to Mississippi State in 2011, was a sellout.  55,028 showed up for Petrino's first game in Little Rock in 2008 against Louisiana Monroe.  Later that year, 55,325 were on hand after Arkansas had been eliminated from bowl eligibility to see Arkansas beat LSU 31-30 on a fourth down Casey Dick to London Crawford TD pass with 22 seconds left.

The standing room only crowd that watched Arkansas clinch a Sugar Bowl berth against LSU 31-23 in 2010 was one of the top three crowds I've ever seen in WMS.  The other two were the 1974 22-7 win over USC and the 1975 31-6 win over Texas A&M.  I don't think anyone ever sat down at any of those games and everyone lost their voice.  Something must have given Mike Leach a reason to say WMS is the loudest place he's ever played.  The fans there are completely nuts when they have a reason to be.

Whether games at WMS should continue is a legitimate question.  The history of sellouts, raucous crowds and success there from the mid-50's through 2011 is not.

I was at the LSU game and the Texas A&M game, but sadly had to miss the USC game.  I to will put the LSU game in my top 3 of all time loudest ever. 
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HoginMemphis

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #151 on: May 16, 2018, 09:53:20 pm »

I was at the LSU game and the Texas A&M game, but sadly had to miss the USC game.  I to will put the LSU game in my top 3 of all time loudest ever.
You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.

Here you go. 10 min highlight video vs Hal Mumme's KY team in 1998 with Tim Couch and their good TE Whelan, who got smoked by Kenoy late in the game. Would be illegal hit today. 
The INT by Barrett turned it around in 3rd Q. Hogs down 20-7 and KY driving. Barrett picks it, runs it back about 70 yards to the 10, Hogs score a play or two later and it's a tie ballgame. I remember this game so well it seems like it was more recent than 20 years ago.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 10:12:27 pm by HoginMemphis »
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #152 on: May 16, 2018, 09:58:56 pm »


You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.

USC in 1974 & Houston in Ď89. KY in 98 tied with aTm in Ď75 for a very close 3rd.
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Augustus

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #153 on: May 16, 2018, 10:32:26 pm »

I know everyone falls on one side or the other on this topic. After listening to Bo's show and him suggesting that playing the Missouri game every other year there may be what happens I put a little thought into what could give WMS the best chance for success.

1. Play the first SEC game there.

Fan optimism is at a high point and there is a hunger for football. If you wait and a couple losses pile up the desire to travel diminishes.

2. Paint the seats and make the game a white out type scenario.

This hides empty seats and gets the real tree apparel out of the picture giving the appearance of a full stadium.

And therein lies the problem... many Hog Fans are thinking about this from the perspective of:
 - What benefits "ME"? (Whether "ME" is a high dollar donor in Central Arkansas or a family living in Southern Arkansas)
 - What benefits War Memorial?

How about Hog Fans collectively start thinking about from the perspective of:
 - "What can we do to give the Football Team the best chance for success?"


I would think a few things we can do?
1.  Not further limit the number of weekends Recruits can take official visits.
2.  Stop playing a Division opponent on the road, every year (A&M)
3.  Stop making players travel to a stadium they don't like playing in, to play a "home game" against a Conference opponent (War Memorial)


And for the "What about the tradition of playing at WMS?" crowd

...here's another tradition:  We've never won an SEC Championship, never won a BCS bowl, never been to the CFB Playoffs.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm tired of that.

Maybe if Hog Fans could over themselves and their nostalgia trip, we might be able to make the obvious choices that would help give our Football Team the best chance for success?
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bphi11ips

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #154 on: May 17, 2018, 12:02:57 am »

You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.

Here you go. 10 min highlight video vs Hal Mumme's KY team in 1998 with Tim Couch and their good TE Whelan, who got smoked by Kenoy late in the game. Would be illegal hit today. 
The INT by Barrett turned it around in 3rd Q. Hogs down 20-7 and KY driving. Barrett picks it, runs it back about 70 yards to the 10, Hogs score a play or two later and it's a tie ballgame. I remember this game so well it seems like it was more recent than 20 years ago.

Your memory could be failing. USC > A&M > LSU. 

But you could be right about Kentucky. I wasn't there, but Mike Leach was.
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masbas3

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #155 on: May 17, 2018, 04:28:06 am »

You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.

Here you go. 10 min highlight video vs Hal Mumme's KY team in 1998 with Tim Couch and their good TE Whelan, who got smoked by Kenoy late in the game. Would be illegal hit today. 
The INT by Barrett turned it around in 3rd Q. Hogs down 20-7 and KY driving. Barrett picks it, runs it back about 70 yards to the 10, Hogs score a play or two later and it's a tie ballgame. I remember this game so well it seems like it was more recent than 20 years ago.
 

I was at the Arkansas-Kentucky game to, it was loud for sure, Barrett's pick and return happened right in front of me.  Also, Arkansas-Houston with Andre Ware leading their air raid attack was the most exciting game I think from beginning to end I've ever witnessed, the game had such big momentum shifts, and no lead was safe.
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parallaxpig

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #156 on: May 17, 2018, 05:07:20 am »

You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.


Been fortunate enough to see every great game ( and not so great) since 72. I pretty loud one was either the 87 or 91 Texas game. Texas missed a field goal at end of game to either win or tie.........maybe someone remembers which.









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ALLVOL

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #157 on: May 17, 2018, 09:48:21 am »

You're both wrong. I was at the A&M game in '75 at age 13 1/2. It was loud but by far the loudest game I've been to in WMS,  starting back in the early 70's, is the KY game in 1998.

Here you go. 10 min highlight video vs Hal Mumme's KY team in 1998 with Tim Couch and their good TE Whelan, who got smoked by Kenoy late in the game. Would be illegal hit today. 
The INT by Barrett turned it around in 3rd Q. Hogs down 20-7 and KY driving. Barrett picks it, runs it back about 70 yards to the 10, Hogs score a play or two later and it's a tie ballgame. I remember this game so well it seems like it was more recent than 20 years ago.
Man! Watching that clip it makes me really miss those ferocious defenses the Hogs used to have.
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Kevin

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #158 on: May 17, 2018, 11:24:20 am »

the strategy should be bulldoze the place, put up a plaque and move on.
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Boardon Hamsay

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #159 on: May 17, 2018, 11:41:05 am »

Best strategy for WMS involves a bulldozer.

The best hope is that WMS collapses into a sinkhole.  The two factions involved here would never agree on the type of bulldozer to use, assuming they both became pro bulldozer.  We need mother nature intervention to put an end to WMS....
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #160 on: May 17, 2018, 11:41:25 am »

the strategy should be bulldoze the place, put up a plaque and move on.

I am really enjoying you today Kevin
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Kevin

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #161 on: May 17, 2018, 11:44:00 am »

I am really enjoying you today Kevin

sarcasm, I get it
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DeltaBoy

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #162 on: May 17, 2018, 12:39:12 pm »

I think winning games in War Memorial Stadium again (thank you Nutt and Petrino, piss off Bret) sounds like a solid strategy.

Amen no one had an issue till the Hog farmer started losing in the Rock.
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justmakeit2thebcs

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #163 on: May 18, 2018, 09:10:31 am »

Surely you remember why Petrino said he hated Little Rock. What did he give you as his reasons?  Was it the condition of the stadium?  The field?  The travel?  Not being able to host recruits?  All of the above?

One thing is for sure.  Petrino couldn't have hated his 8-0 record in WMS or the crowds that showed up to support his teams.  Every single game, from Louisiana Monroe in 2008 to Mississippi State in 2011, was a sellout.  55,028 showed up for Petrino's first game in Little Rock in 2008 against Louisiana Monroe.  Later that year, 55,325 were on hand after Arkansas had been eliminated from bowl eligibility to see Arkansas beat LSU 31-30 on a fourth down Casey Dick to London Crawford TD pass with 22 seconds left.

The standing room only crowd that watched Arkansas clinch a Sugar Bowl berth against LSU 31-23 in 2010 was one of the top three crowds I've ever seen in WMS.  The other two were the 1974 22-7 win over USC and the 1975 31-6 win over Texas A&M.  I don't think anyone ever sat down at any of those games and everyone lost their voice.  Something must have given Mike Leach a reason to say WMS is the loudest place he's ever played.  The fans there are completely nuts when they have a reason to be.

Whether games at WMS should continue is a legitimate question.  The history of sellouts, raucous crowds and success there from the mid-50's through 2011 is not.
Not a home game routine, crappy locker rooms and communication equipment, recruiting and travel.  Other than crowd rooting for you, it wasn't a home game.  You act like he went in 8-0 in WMS becasue it was Little Rock.  He would have won every one of those game in Fayetteville as well.

If LR is the best enviroment to play in and gives us the best chance of winning, why don't we play all of our games there? It all about the team right?  The only reason we have games in LR are politics, period.   
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ricepig

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #164 on: May 18, 2018, 09:24:52 am »

The best hope is that WMS collapses into a sinkhole.  The two factions involved here would never agree on the type of bulldozer to use, assuming they both became pro bulldozer.  We need mother nature intervention to put an end to WMS....

It would have to be either a Cat or  Deere, and I'd go with a D11 Caterpillar. Cat has a factory in LR and it would help promote jobs. No way we would go with a Komatsu or any other foreign made dozer.
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masbas3

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #165 on: May 18, 2018, 09:28:17 am »

It would have to be either a Cat or  Deere, and I'd go with a D11 Caterpillar. Cat has a factory in LR and it would help promote jobs. No way we would go with a Komatsu or any other foreign made dozer.

A Caterpillar would be a great choice for sure.  By the way, anyone that's looking for a decent paying job right now around Central Arkansas, Caterpillar is hiring.
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OkieBack

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #166 on: May 18, 2018, 09:38:39 am »

Not a home game routine, crappy locker rooms and communication equipment, recruiting and travel.  Other than crowd rooting for you, it wasn't a home game.  You act like he went in 8-0 in WMS becasue it was Little Rock.  He would have won every one of those game in Fayetteville as well.

If LR is the best enviroment to play in and gives us the best chance of winning, why don't we play all of our games there? It all about the team right?  The only reason we have games in LR are politics, period.   

I have to say its a goodwill gesture of the school and coach if they choose to play at WMS.  OU comes to Tulsa and plays at their stadium once every few years.  They actually lose money by not hosting that non-conference game in Norman, but you know why they play it?  Because its part of Oklahoma and there is a big fan base in Tulsa.  I don't see the UofA giving Little Rock more than 1 or 2 games a year unless they pony up and really make the facilities something worth while, however for allot of Central Arkansas fans who pay money to the University I don't see it as a negative like allot of you.  Their money spends just as easily as the rest of us who may be close to Fayetteville. 

It's just an unfortunate reality for Arkansas to have two cities who want to see their team play there.  I'm ok either way because just like CBP's record, if you build a team good enough they are going to win at either place.
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riccoar

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #167 on: May 18, 2018, 11:43:43 am »

So seems like there was talk on a radio show this AM saying part of this deal was WMS doing some more renovations or such?  Can anyone expound on that?
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Kevin

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #168 on: May 18, 2018, 11:55:10 am »

I have to say its a goodwill gesture of the school and coach if they choose to play at WMS.  OU comes to Tulsa and plays at their stadium once every few years.  They actually lose money by not hosting that non-conference game in Norman, but you know why they play it?  Because its part of Oklahoma and there is a big fan base in Tulsa.  I don't see the UofA giving Little Rock more than 1 or 2 games a year unless they pony up and really make the facilities something worth while, however for allot of Central Arkansas fans who pay money to the University I don't see it as a negative like allot of you.  Their money spends just as easily as the rest of us who may be close to Fayetteville. 

It's just an unfortunate reality for Arkansas to have two cities who want to see their team play there.  I'm ok either way because just like CBP's record, if you build a team good enough they are going to win at either place.

ou plays Tulsa in a non conference game.
they are not playing iowa state in tulsa
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Augustus

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #169 on: May 18, 2018, 11:57:47 am »

So seems like there was talk on a radio show this AM saying part of this deal was WMS doing some more renovations or such?  Can anyone expound on that?

From what I've read, here are requirements from the new contract:

War Memorial games are expected to meet benchmarks for tickets sold and ticket revenue each year. The contract stipulates that 47,000 tickets should be sold each year at the 54,120-seat stadium, and ticket revenue should total at least $2.1 million in 2019, increasing by $200,000 each game to $2.5 million in 2023. In the event those benchmarks are not met, the two parties will discuss circumstances that could have led to decreased figures and practices to improve ticket sales in future games.


These are "good faith" improvements mentioned in the contract, promised by War Memorial... but not necessarily binding requirements:

The Parks department has promised to make stadium improvements in two phases, beginning with 2019 changes that will replace the playing turf, upgrade network broadcast infrastructure, improve Wi-Fi and cellphone connectivity, replace audio speakers, implement mobile ticket scanning practices and comply with expected SEC minimum standards for visitor locker rooms. The Parks department also promises to work with law enforcement agencies to improve traffic flow around the stadium.

A second phase of improvements will address the need for security cameras in the stadium and improved locker rooms for home teams and officials.


Source:
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/may/17/razorbacks-war-memorial-extend-contract-through-20/
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Arazorbackguy1

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #170 on: May 18, 2018, 12:00:36 pm »

I don't hate that idea.
More students are in Little Rock that week anyway. 
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Kevin

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GuvHog

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #172 on: May 18, 2018, 12:38:30 pm »

From what I've read, here are requirements from the new contract:

War Memorial games are expected to meet benchmarks for tickets sold and ticket revenue each year. The contract stipulates that 47,000 tickets should be sold each year at the 54,120-seat stadium, and ticket revenue should total at least $2.1 million in 2019, increasing by $200,000 each game to $2.5 million in 2023. In the event those benchmarks are not met, the two parties will discuss circumstances that could have led to decreased figures and practices to improve ticket sales in future games.


These are "good faith" improvements mentioned in the contract, promised by War Memorial... but not necessarily binding requirements:

The Parks department has promised to make stadium improvements in two phases, beginning with 2019 changes that will replace the playing turf, upgrade network broadcast infrastructure, improve Wi-Fi and cellphone connectivity, replace audio speakers, implement mobile ticket scanning practices and comply with expected SEC minimum standards for visitor locker rooms. The Parks department also promises to work with law enforcement agencies to improve traffic flow around the stadium.

A second phase of improvements will address the need for security cameras in the stadium and improved locker rooms for home teams and officials.


Source:
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/may/17/razorbacks-war-memorial-extend-contract-through-20/

There are improvements to WMS that the contract requires to make the stadium SEC acceptable. If they are not made in the agreed to time frame, the contract can be voided.
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ricepig

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #173 on: May 18, 2018, 12:40:37 pm »

So seems like there was talk on a radio show this AM saying part of this deal was WMS doing some more renovations or such?  Can anyone expound on that?


http://www.arkansasonline.com/51718warmemorial/
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Augustus

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #174 on: May 18, 2018, 12:52:43 pm »

There are improvements to WMS that the contract requires to make the stadium SEC acceptable. If they are not made in the agreed to time frame, the contract can be voided.

I understood them as "good faith" improvements, because other than:
- replacing the turf
- replacing the audio speakers
- updating to the Visitor's locker room
- implement mobile ticket scanning practices

...how would the rest of the "promises" from War Memorial be measured?
-  How do you measure "improved Wi-Fi and cellphone connectivity"?
-  or "improved traffic flow around the Stadium"?
-  or even "upgrade network broadcast infrastructure"?

Those are very subjective, and I didn't see any specific metrics in the contract by which WMS had to "improve" those items?
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DLUXHOG

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #175 on: May 18, 2018, 12:55:16 pm »

There are improvements to WMS that the contract requires to make the stadium SEC acceptable. If they are not made in the agreed to time frame, the contract can be voided.

The folks that run/govern WMS are just like that dictator in N Korea...  in that they have no intent in honoring this contract.   They will say whatever at the time to get the Hogs to play in WMS.   they think that the Hogs will never cancel the contract...
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GuvHog

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #176 on: May 18, 2018, 01:04:46 pm »

I understood them as "good faith" improvements, because other than:
- replacing the turf
- replacing the audio speakers
- updating to the Visitor's locker room
- implement mobile ticket scanning practices

...how would the rest of the "promises" from War Memorial be measured?
-  How do you measure "improved Wi-Fi and cellphone connectivity"?
-  or "improved traffic flow around the Stadium"?
-  or even "upgrade network broadcast infrastructure"?

Those are very subjective, and I didn't see any specific metrics in the contract by which WMS had to "improve" those items?

Along with the top 4 that you posted, updating the home locker room and upgrading the Network Broadcasting infrastucture are also required. The stadium has to be made SEC broadcast level acceptable.
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GuvHog

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #177 on: May 18, 2018, 01:10:19 pm »

The folks that run/govern WMS are just like that dictator in N Korea...  in that they have no intent in honoring this contract.   They will say whatever at the time to get the Hogs to play in WMS.   they think that the Hogs will never cancel the contract...

They may think that but they are wrong if they do.
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Augustus

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #178 on: May 18, 2018, 01:11:27 pm »

The folks that run/govern WMS are just like that dictator in N Korea...  in that they have no intent in honoring this contract.   They will say whatever at the time to get the Hogs to play in WMS.   they think that the Hogs will never cancel the contract...

It's also interesting that the UofA has promised to play the Red/White games at WMS in the "odd" years... which the SEC hasn't officially approved, yet.

And, if the SEC allows it for us, they have to allow it for everyone?  Meaning A&M could request to have their Spring Game at Jerry's World...  and thus, the slippery slope.

On the radio yesterday, the director of the WMS Commission said "He takes it in good faith that the UofA will get approval from the SEC for this"

What happens if the SEC pushes back against the Red/White games in LR?
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DLUXHOG

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #179 on: May 18, 2018, 01:12:37 pm »

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Adam Stokes

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #180 on: May 18, 2018, 01:20:00 pm »

I live far out of state and don't get to attend games anyways, so I'm more on the side of having all the games in Fayetteville.

I never liked the idea of having LSU play in Little Rock, simply because it made it easier for all the LSU fans to travel there due to the closer proximity. I always thought that I'd rather have less LSU fans in attendance and a better pro-Arkansas advantage than to have more of the stadium filled up. So at least with that logic I'm okay putting an extra 3-5 hours roundtrip between any Mizzou fan wanting to attend the game.
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GuvHog

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #181 on: May 18, 2018, 01:21:53 pm »

It's also interesting that the UofA has promised to play the Red/White games at WMS in the "odd" years... which the SEC hasn't officially approved, yet.

And, if the SEC allows it for us, they have to allow it for everyone?  Meaning A&M could request to have their Spring Game at Jerry's World...  and thus, the slippery slope.

On the radio yesterday, the director of the WMS Commission said "He takes it in good faith that the UofA will get approval from the SEC for this"

What happens if the SEC pushes back against the Red/White games in LR?

My guess is if the SEC doesn't approve of the Spring games in WMS, they'll probably go back to having the Hogs play a non conference opponent there in years when they play at Missouri. Some times it might be best to let it ride and take the lesser of 2 evils. Between the 2, I prefer they play the spring game there every other year rather than playing a non-conference opponent there in years when the Hogs play at Missouri.
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ricepig

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #182 on: May 18, 2018, 01:58:38 pm »

My guess is if the SEC doesn't approve of the Spring games in WMS, they'll probably go back to having the Hogs play a non conference opponent there in years when they play at Missouri. Some times it might be best to let it ride and take the lesser of 2 evils. Between the 2, I prefer they play the spring game there every other year rather than playing a non-conference opponent there in years when the Hogs play at Missouri.

Item 2, Section B, states that in the event the SEC turns down the spring game request, the UofA isn't required to play any other game at WMS.
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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #183 on: May 18, 2018, 02:11:17 pm »

Item 2, Section B, states that in the event the SEC turns down the spring game request, the UofA isn't required to play any other game at WMS.

What do you think the odds are of the SEC denying this request?
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psooie

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #184 on: May 18, 2018, 02:26:27 pm »

I would rather see a Labor Day weekend game at WMS than the spring game for those 2 years. So you would play 6 games over 6 years, 3 Missouri and 3 Labor Day weekend non conference. When 2024 rolls around, the Texas A&m game in Dallas and WMS contract would be up at the same time.
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ricepig

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #185 on: May 18, 2018, 02:51:08 pm »

What do you think the odds are of the SEC denying this request?

Boardon Hamsay sets the odds, I just make the bets.
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GuvHog

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #186 on: May 18, 2018, 04:14:14 pm »

Item 2, Section B, states that in the event the SEC turns down the spring game request, the UofA isn't required to play any other game at WMS.

If the SEC doesn't approve of the spring practice deal, I hope they don't play any Non-conference games there to make up for it but they probably will.
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masbas3

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #187 on: May 18, 2018, 04:16:02 pm »

There are improvements to WMS that the contract requires to make the stadium SEC acceptable. If they are not made in the agreed to time frame, the contract can be voided.

This ^^^!
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #188 on: May 29, 2018, 10:27:16 am »

My guess is if the SEC doesn't approve of the Spring games in WMS, they'll probably go back to having the Hogs play a non conference opponent there in years when they play at Missouri. Some times it might be best to let it ride and take the lesser of 2 evils. Between the 2, I prefer they play the spring game there every other year rather than playing a non-conference opponent there in years when the Hogs play at Missouri.

There is no lesser of two evils when you have a beautiful on campus stadium that all the games should be played in and can host recruits on OVís, and where you make more money playing at, etc.
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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #189 on: May 29, 2018, 10:46:10 am »

The WMS strategy is for the Little Rock bigwigs to hold the State's flagship university hostage by threatening to withhold their support if they don't get what they want. 
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Rudy Baylor

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Re: WMS Strategy
« Reply #190 on: May 29, 2018, 11:02:14 am »

what in the absolute frick has become of the WMS debate here? It's run off and left me.

Item 2 Section B of what?

I blame ricepig for this darn.  >:(

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