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Author Topic: RW III suing insurance companies  (Read 7260 times)

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gustofwind

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #100 on: May 02, 2018, 02:05:04 pm »

whoever came up with fine print should have had the intrails ripped out. no contract should ever be more than 1 page.

Fine print exist because of consumer lawsuits.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #101 on: May 02, 2018, 02:15:58 pm »

Lol, sounds good in theory, but J'Rabb wouldn't have a job, or that one page would be 10ft long......

so you agree fine print is a rich mans way of staying rich and messing over those with less.. ok good
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2018, 02:16:52 pm »

Fine print exist because of consumer lawsuits.

i think thats the other way around large companies didnt like having to pay out what people had given them
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ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2018, 02:21:03 pm »

so you agree fine print is a rich mans way of staying rich and missing of those with less ok good

If that's what you got out of my post, then I understand why you only want 1 page. If you believe every contract should be only one page, then you would have to eliminate the ability of one party to sue another. In case you haven't noticed, not everything is black or white, there's lots of grey in this world.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #104 on: May 02, 2018, 02:23:00 pm »

IM going to put it another way I shouldn't have to have 3 different policies with 3 different premiums to cover my home for what they consider and act of god.. IE Flood, Fire, or earthquake
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #105 on: May 02, 2018, 02:25:13 pm »

And another thing I suprissed to find so many willing to defend insurance companies on a sports message board.  Must have a lot of people charging these hours as research.
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Karma

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #106 on: May 02, 2018, 02:27:01 pm »

Looks like I'm going to have to kill his trust account, that'll teach him!
They took his money and issued the policy. The policy said it covered injuries which prevented him from pursuing a professional football career. After that, he injured his spine in practice. After that, the insurance company added a provision that said the policy didn't cover spinal injuries.

That's no different than you having car insurance and having an accident today, and the insurance company next week saying it won't pay because it no longer covers accidents occurring on a Wednesday.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #107 on: May 02, 2018, 02:27:05 pm »

If that's what you got out of my post, then I understand why you only want 1 page. If you believe every contract should be only one page, then you would have to eliminate the ability of one party to sue another. In case you haven't noticed, not everything is black or white, there's lots of grey in this world.

There wouldnt be if people would do the right thing not the easy.
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gustofwind

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2018, 02:28:56 pm »

i think thats the other way around large companies didnt like having to pay out what people had given them

I'm actually more on your side than you realize.  All i'm saying is we live in a world of buyer beware, read contracts fully before you sign because you will spend a lot of money on legal fees trying to get what you thought/promised and most of the time it's covered in the contract or not fight it and get nothing.  With regards to the RWIII deal, who knows.  I do know who is representing the defendant but do not know details, my guess is that there was some type of amendment and it was not conveyed or read before RWIII signed the contract, but pure speculation on my part.
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2018, 02:29:54 pm »

IM going to put it another way I shouldn't have to have 3 different policies with 3 different premiums to cover my home for what they consider and act of god.. IE Flood, Fire, or earthquake
If I live on a mountain top nowhere near a fault line, why would I want to pay for flood insurance and earthquake insurance?  Hence the need for 3 polices for some people. 
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2018, 02:32:04 pm »

There wouldnt be if people would do the right thing not the easy.
LOL.  Who defines what is right?  You?  Everything only seems black and white if you are one of those that think you are all ways right and know what's best for everyone.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #111 on: May 02, 2018, 02:32:31 pm »

If I live on a mountain top nowhere near a fault line, why would I want to pay for flood insurance and earthquake insurance?  Hence the need for 3 polices for some people. 

hope your covered for a land slides, and better be able to prove that the land slide was not because of a far off earthquake shifting rocks.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #112 on: May 02, 2018, 02:36:29 pm »

So many conclusions are being drawn when, as someone said earlier, no one posting in this thread has seen the policy in question.  And the allegations of a Complaint (and the quotes of a plaintiff's attorney) are just that - allegations.  If proven they may become facts.  But we just don't know and anyone saying otherwise right now is being foolish. 

We'd all like to see RWIII compensated for what happened to him.  But whether he is or is not will depend on the facts and the application of contract law.  Simple as that.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #113 on: May 02, 2018, 02:36:41 pm »

LOL.  Who defines what is right?  You?  Everything only seems black and white if you are one of those that think you are all ways right and know what's best for everyone.

No im not always right.  But there is always a right and wrong in everything.  Some people have no shame or honor though
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #114 on: May 02, 2018, 02:39:21 pm »

hope your covered for a land slides, and better be able to prove that the land slide was not because of a far off earthquake shifting rocks.
Nah, it was because of poor foundation work.  Engineer said I needed piers 30 feet deep, but I couldn't afford it, so I only went 5 feet deep.  Everything is not always God or someone else's fault.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #115 on: May 02, 2018, 02:43:40 pm »

So many conclusions are being drawn when, as someone said earlier, no one posting in this thread has seen the policy in question.  And the allegations of a Complaint (and the quotes of a plaintiff's attorney) are just that - allegations.  If proven they may become facts.  But we just don't know and anyone saying otherwise right now is being foolish. 

We'd all like to see RWIII compensated for what happened to him.  But whether he is or is not will depend on the facts and the application of contract law.  Simple as that.

why even get that kind of policy then.  His intent was to protect himself in-case he could no longer play football because of an injury to his spin.  He was re inured on his spin medical professionals said he should no longer play.  Insurance should pay.  Maybe insurance companies should never insure these types of things because in a contact sport injuries happen.  Maybe people would retire earlier and not push themselves to that point.  Point is a deal was made the deal should be honored.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #116 on: May 02, 2018, 02:48:19 pm »

why even get that kind of policy then.  His intent was to protect himself in-case he could no longer play football because of an injury to his spin.  He was re inured on his spin medical professionals said he should no longer play.  Insurance should pay.  Maybe insurance companies should never insure these types of things because in a contact sport injuries happen.  Maybe people would retire earlier and not push themselves to that point.  Point is a deal was made the deal should be honored.

I give up...
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #117 on: May 02, 2018, 02:48:23 pm »

No im not always right.  But there is always a right and wrong in everything.  Some people have no shame or honor though
Gun control, trickle down economics, welfare, 3-4 or 4-3 defense?  Chevy or Ford?  Should we play ASU? Would we play in LR?  For it to be black or white, the answer has to be absolute.  You want a world of absolutes? Stupid question, you think we already have one.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #118 on: May 02, 2018, 02:49:41 pm »

No im not always right.  But there is always a right and wrong in everything.  Some people have no shame or honor though

Would you steal bread to feed your starving family?
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #119 on: May 02, 2018, 02:56:32 pm »

why even get that kind of policy then.  His intent was to protect himself in-case he could no longer play football because of an injury to his spin.  He was re inured on his spin medical professionals said he should no longer play.  Insurance should pay.  Maybe insurance companies should never insure these types of things because in a contact sport injuries happen.  Maybe people would retire earlier and not push themselves to that point.  Point is a deal was made the deal should be honored.
Have you seen the policy?  Do you know what it covered and what it didn't?  You have zero knowledge about the situation, you are trying to apply logic based on a policy YOU would have sought.  How can you know the RIGHT thing is for the insurance company to pay when you have ZERO facts?   

Maybe, just maybe the policy didn't cover pre-existing conditions.  If it didn't, should the insurance company pay?   The correct response is....I don't know.   Because you don't, the second injury may have had nothing to do with the first.  Just becasue it was a neck injury doesn't make it related.   
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2018, 03:01:23 pm »

There are reasons that the insurance industry is one of the least respected. It’s bad when it’s up there near the top and in some surveys even is worse than telemarketing!
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ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #121 on: May 02, 2018, 03:14:08 pm »

They took his money and issued the policy. The policy said it covered injuries which prevented him from pursuing a professional football career. After that, he injured his spine in practice. After that, the insurance company added a provision that said the policy didn't cover spinal injuries.

That's no different than you having car insurance and having an accident today, and the insurance company next week saying it won't pay because it no longer covers accidents occurring on a Wednesday.

Not sure what that has to do with my post about my son, lol..., I guess you have read his(Rawleigh 's) application for this insurance?
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Razorbackers

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #122 on: May 02, 2018, 04:28:14 pm »

IM going to put it another way I shouldn't have to have 3 different policies with 3 different premiums to cover my home for what they consider and act of god.. IE Flood, Fire, or earthquake

You don't have that. I was an adjuster in a past life for homeowners coverage.

A decent homeowners policy offers coverage on the main building (coverage A), separate structures (coverage B), and contents (coverage C).

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Hogs33

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #123 on: May 02, 2018, 04:49:56 pm »

Everybody hates Insurance...Until you are driving a 2018 Vehicle and get hit by a 1989 junker that ran a stop sign and your vehicle gets totaled. Then you are just hoping that guy DOES have it.

Insurance is designed to be a great thing. Read Your policies and contracts. Know what you have.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #124 on: May 02, 2018, 05:13:00 pm »

Gun control, trickle down economics, welfare, 3-4 or 4-3 defense?  Chevy or Ford?  Should we play ASU? Would we play in LR?  For it to be black or white, the answer has to be absolute.  You want a world of absolutes? Stupid question, you think we already have one.
2nd amendment "the right to bare arms shall not be infringed" so no
Tricle down didn't work
Welfare helping hand not a lifestyle
Defence pick one get good at it
No to ASU
Yes the Little Rock
Cheve

That's where I'm at
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #125 on: May 02, 2018, 05:13:16 pm »

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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #126 on: May 02, 2018, 05:26:28 pm »

Would you steal bread to feed your starving family?
No
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hog.goblin

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #128 on: May 02, 2018, 05:54:26 pm »

Socialized insurance . . . now there's an idea that's never been tried before.  Claims money will rain down like pixie dust.

Insurance is just a contract.  None of us know the terms of RWIII's contract with Loyd's, but companies with Loyd's reputation don't reject claims unless they think the contract doesn't cover it.  If Loyd's was attempting to add an endorsement ex post facto, they're going to have to pay.  It might just be a legitimate dispute that needs to be resolved judicially.

But I guess it's more fun to jump to the conclusion that all insurance companies are trying to screw you.

yes. Everything should be socialism...........

Not government insurance, but non-profit insurance.  But I guess it's more fun to jump to conclusions to try and politicize an issue.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 06:09:55 pm by hog.goblin »
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #129 on: May 02, 2018, 06:00:08 pm »

Not government insurance, but non-profit insurance.  But I guess it's more fun to jump to conclusions to try and politicize and issue.
Thank you for making my point
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ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #130 on: May 02, 2018, 06:01:12 pm »

Not government insurance, but non-profit insurance.  But I guess it's more fun to jump to conclusions to try and politicize and issue.

Who is going to take this risk on, besides the government?
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #131 on: May 02, 2018, 06:06:22 pm »

Who is going to take this risk on, besides the government?
Elon Musk seems like a benevolent fellow
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hog.goblin

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #132 on: May 02, 2018, 06:09:20 pm »

Who is going to take this risk on, besides the government?

The insurance company, just like it does now.  There simply isn't a profit motive (just a sufficient reserves motive).  It's not unusual (see non-profit hospitals).
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ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #133 on: May 02, 2018, 06:15:22 pm »

The insurance company, just like it does now.  There simply isn't a profit motive (just a sufficient reserves motive).  It's not unusual (see non-profit hospitals).

Fat chance they'll want to continue if there's no profit motive, as to non-profit hospitals, not the same thing......
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hog.goblin

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #134 on: May 02, 2018, 06:28:40 pm »

Fat chance they'll want to continue if there's no profit motive, as to non-profit hospitals, not the same thing......

oh I agree, they surely don't want to give up their profits, hence the mass demutualization of the industry

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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #135 on: May 02, 2018, 07:09:03 pm »

Greed is not good

ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #136 on: May 02, 2018, 07:09:22 pm »

oh I agree, they surely don't want to give up their profits, hence the mass demutualization of the industry



I don't blame them, and neither does Warren Buffet. People always have the option to self-insure themselves, except for ........
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #137 on: May 02, 2018, 07:19:14 pm »

It cool all the smug rich folks will be the first to go down when there money cant do everything for them anymore
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Porked Tongue

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #138 on: May 02, 2018, 07:22:48 pm »

Reading all the particulars it comes down to:
Language
Timing
That recording RWIIIs dad made of the phone call from the agent
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hog.goblin

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #139 on: May 02, 2018, 07:32:39 pm »

I don't blame them, and neither does Warren Buffet. People always have the option to self-insure themselves, except for ........

I don't blame them either.  I like money.  But some industries shouldn't be so tied to profits.  I'm mainly thinking health insurance more than property & casualty, or special contract insurance like RW3.  I don't believe free anything is healthy, but health and medical needs should have some cost-controlled options, and health insurance is tied closely to medical needs.

But now I'm getting off topic, particularly since I'm mostly a free market guy...
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hoglady

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #140 on: May 02, 2018, 08:43:41 pm »

Yes, if the policy is in full force. Everyone always skips over the finite details. This appears to be a "he said, she said", hopefully for Rawleigh's stake, he's fully covered and will be paid. Making a payment does not indicate the policy has been approved by the underwriters, it's usually part of the application process, or has been in my business dealings. I never drop my coverage from company to another until I'm assured the policy is in full force.

I'm curious to know if RWIII had actually received the policy.
It sounds like he had not and when it came back an addendum had been added - that basically negated the claim.
I know with life insurance and used to with health insurance - your application had to be underwritten before the policy was in force.
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Karma

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #141 on: May 02, 2018, 09:04:35 pm »

Not sure what that has to do with my post about my son, lol..., I guess you have read his(Rawleigh 's) application for this insurance?
As I have.
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wholehog92

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #142 on: May 02, 2018, 09:15:44 pm »

I hate that so many people don't understand risk mitigation and the meaning of a contract.  It's like the liability insurance on your vehicle.  The state mandates a minimum coverage.  The minimum coverage losses could easily be exceeded.  Guess who's on the hook for the amount that's over the minimum?  Now some people may be upside down in life financially.  If that's you, it makes perfect sense you wouldn't carry extra liability.  They can't squeeze blood out of a turnip so to speak.  If you have assets at all though, they are fair game. 

If your Dr buddy has the minimum and he has a seizure and runs through the mall takes out a couple of mercedes at the entrance and exit, causes millions in medical costs to boot and he only has the 50K in bodily injury and 25K property damage on his hoopty and he tells you the insurance company bailed on him and he got sued, do you say that insurance sucks or your buddy is stupid?

We don't have any idea what the policy looked like for RW3 or how it was represented.  I hope all his ducks are in a row and he is made whole.  When you purchase insurance you are mitigating a very specific risk and it is defined in the contract.  The insurance contract usually states it must be reviewed by an underwriter before it is a valid policy and you have the right to back out if you disagree with the underwriters findings.  I've purchased life insurance at a value before and after the underwriter took a look at my medical evaluation, my policy value was lowered and my premium remained the same.  I had the alternative to refuse the change and recoup my premiums previously paid and go searching for a new policy which I did coincidentally and ended up with what I was looking for at essentially the same cost. 

Where I think RW3 may be bolstered is that Loyd's is about the only game in town when it comes to policies like this.  He had no recourse for similar coverage if they did alter the contract originally signed during underwriting.  My feelings are they are asking for a jury trial precisely because they know the average person never takes the time to educate themselves on contracts, they just bitch when it is found they don't have what they thought they did.

I'm not in the insurance game either, I just review contracts for appropriate insurance from contractors to be sure my clients are protected.  You would be surprised how many people in charge of the employment of hundreds of people, huge contracts, and huge projects don't understand the policies they have to have and why they are important.  In my mind, it should be required for any certification or license that part of their certification is an understanding of the various insurance products in that market and what they are for and what the key components are.
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ricepig

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #143 on: May 02, 2018, 10:17:59 pm »

As I have.

And the policy was in full force at the time of application? It said nothing about needing to be approved by the underwriters, or the waiting period with ISI?
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whosiskid

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #144 on: May 03, 2018, 04:04:18 am »

must be an insurance salesman or in sales.  Insurance is a scam brought about by the major industries to make even more money and charge ever high prices.

This simply not so. You may be particularizing it to just your case, but without insurance companies no one anywhere would be willing to embark on any activity that involved risk. Prior to insurance companies all risk was undertaken by individuals. As a result all economic life was stymied and we were basically stuck in the Middle Ages. I'd recommend the following book for anyone who thinks that insurance as such is stupid or a mere scam:

https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk/dp/0471295639/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1525333585&sr=1-11&keywords=a+history+of+risk

That said, I'm not saying that insurance companies does create their own forms of mischief. They often like mislead to maximize profit and minimize how much they have to pay. But even in the US, as bad as our health insurance insurance is, it is pretty much essential if you want to be treated for any illness or medical condition. That said, I think that we have in the past year made a decision as a nation that we WANT a robust health insurance program. It took nearly losing it - or actually losing it for many people, though hopefully only for a short period of time - for the country to make a decision to commit to it. I think within the next decade not even Republicans will be elected to office if they oppose a strong national health program (partly what has happened has been a straightening out of terminology - I have an aunt, and I'm sure we've all heard stories like this, who hated, hated, hated Obamacare, but would have challenged you to a fist fight if you tried to take away the health insurance she got under the Affordable Health Insurance Act (she also told me point blank that I was wrong that the two were the same thing; well, she said so then, but now she acknowledges that she was mistaken). But a LOT of the opposition to Affordable Healthcare was generated by the insurance industry trying to muddy the water. They wanted to only insure healthy people, wanted to be able to deny coverage to people with preexisting conditions did not want to insure kids on parents policies, wanted to limit the kinds of things they would cover, etc., while also misleading people by paying "consultants" to create divisive myths such as the absurd lie that national healthcare would mean "Death Panels." The fact that it has taken us so long to get to this place has in large part been because insurance companies don't want to be good citizens.

They also do other unpleasant things, like talk cities and towns to pass laws against "aggressive breeds" of dogs. And if they can't get it passed as laws, they force buildings with rental leases to ban such "aggressive" breeds (and just how silly this is can be seen that one of the gentlest breeds in the word, the Great Dane, is included on that list, as well as the Bassett House - bassett hounds might be incredibly loud, but no one who has actually met a bassett house could be afraid of anything other than being slimed).

But despite my own complaints with insurance companies (I worked for what was before the collapse of 2008 for what was the largest insurance company in the US and the third largest company of any kind - we weren't the company that was supposed to be "Too big to fail" but we were significantly larger than that company), they play a crucial role in American life. 98% of the people on this board wouldn't have a job without companies willing to assume risk for a price. And furthermore, insurance companies fund most really expensive building projects. Say you want to build a new office complex. No bank could lend you that kind of money. They simply don't have enough money. But insurance companies do. My ex-wife was an attorney whose job was to fly around the US handing over checks cut by insurance companies to finalize a project. I'm not sure why they don't do this via wire transfers, but for whatever reason, she used to come home from work with a $35,142,072.18 check in her briefcase (we used to speculate where that 18 cents came from). The source of the check was always Zurich or Mass Mutual or AIG, never Chase Manhattan or Bank of America.

If you eliminated insurance companies tomorrow, economic life in America would shut down a few minutes after that.
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whosiskid

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #145 on: May 03, 2018, 04:18:03 am »

I hate that so many people don't understand risk mitigation and the meaning of a contract.  It's like the liability insurance on your vehicle.  The state mandates a minimum coverage.  The minimum coverage losses could easily be exceeded.  Guess who's on the hook for the amount that's over the minimum?  Now some people may be upside down in life financially.  If that's you, it makes perfect sense you wouldn't carry extra liability.  They can't squeeze blood out of a turnip so to speak.  If you have assets at all though, they are fair game. 

If your Dr buddy has the minimum and he has a seizure and runs through the mall takes out a couple of mercedes at the entrance and exit, causes millions in medical costs to boot and he only has the 50K in bodily injury and 25K property damage on his hoopty and he tells you the insurance company bailed on him and he got sued, do you say that insurance sucks or your buddy is stupid?

We don't have any idea what the policy looked like for RW3 or how it was represented.  I hope all his ducks are in a row and he is made whole.  When you purchase insurance you are mitigating a very specific risk and it is defined in the contract.  The insurance contract usually states it must be reviewed by an underwriter before it is a valid policy and you have the right to back out if you disagree with the underwriters findings.  I've purchased life insurance at a value before and after the underwriter took a look at my medical evaluation, my policy value was lowered and my premium remained the same.  I had the alternative to refuse the change and recoup my premiums previously paid and go searching for a new policy which I did coincidentally and ended up with what I was looking for at essentially the same cost. 

Where I think RW3 may be bolstered is that Loyd's is about the only game in town when it comes to policies like this.  He had no recourse for similar coverage if they did alter the contract originally signed during underwriting.  My feelings are they are asking for a jury trial precisely because they know the average person never takes the time to educate themselves on contracts, they just bitch when it is found they don't have what they thought they did.

I'm not in the insurance game either, I just review contracts for appropriate insurance from contractors to be sure my clients are protected.  You would be surprised how many people in charge of the employment of hundreds of people, huge contracts, and huge projects don't understand the policies they have to have and why they are important.  In my mind, it should be required for any certification or license that part of their certification is an understanding of the various insurance products in that market and what they are for and what the key components are.

I think there obviously something very specific in the policy that makes Lloyd's think that they are not liable. It might just be that one of their approved doctors did not certify him as being unable to play. It all hinges on the language in the policy. The policy might be in the lawsuit. Sometimes in suits they only place the declaration page. I'm sure we'll get to see it eventually.

But let me say one thing in support of Lloyds and one thing in criticism. They do some stupid stuff somedays. Lloyd's will agree to insure some actress's legs, for instance. Angie Dickinson, for instance, had he leg's insured for one million dollars. It was a publicity stunt. The studio could claim her legs were worth a million bucks, but the policy actually read that her legs were insured for any injuries sustained from 12:00 am and 12:01 am on January 1, 1965. I hate that Lloyd's participates in stupid stunts like that. But in this case, it is entirely possible that RWIII violated a rather strict procedure for making a claim against his policy. I'm pretty sure that there is a risk manager who handles this stuff for the football team. It wouldn't be Jeff Long. Over time we'll figure out who is at fault. It would break my heart if the claim had been reported incorrectly,

However, whoever it is who handles that claim for Lloyd's, they have an absolute responsibility to deny that claim if there it was reported incorrectly. If in the end he doesn't get any money, it will be because someone messed up. Time will tell.
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Karma

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #146 on: May 03, 2018, 07:11:34 am »

And the policy was in full force at the time of application? It said nothing about needing to be approved by the underwriters, or the waiting period with ISI?
Correct. This was an attempted addendum post underwriting.
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hoglady

Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #147 on: May 03, 2018, 07:24:57 am »

Well, hopefully they get this all settled soon and it never hits the courtroom.
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mhsbc59

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #148 on: May 03, 2018, 07:45:25 am »

This simply not so. You may be particularizing it to just your case, but without insurance companies no one anywhere would be willing to embark on any activity that involved risk. Prior to insurance companies all risk was undertaken by individuals. As a result all economic life was stymied and we were basically stuck in the Middle Ages. I'd recommend the following book for anyone who thinks that insurance as such is stupid or a mere scam:

https://www.amazon.com/Against-Gods-Remarkable-Story-Risk/dp/0471295639/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1525333585&sr=1-11&keywords=a+history+of+risk

That said, I'm not saying that insurance companies does create their own forms of mischief. They often like mislead to maximize profit and minimize how much they have to pay. But even in the US, as bad as our health insurance insurance is, it is pretty much essential if you want to be treated for any illness or medical condition. That said, I think that we have in the past year made a decision as a nation that we WANT a robust health insurance program. It took nearly losing it - or actually losing it for many people, though hopefully only for a short period of time - for the country to make a decision to commit to it. I think within the next decade not even Republicans will be elected to office if they oppose a strong national health program (partly what has happened has been a straightening out of terminology - I have an aunt, and I'm sure we've all heard stories like this, who hated, hated, hated Obamacare, but would have challenged you to a fist fight if you tried to take away the health insurance she got under the Affordable Health Insurance Act (she also told me point blank that I was wrong that the two were the same thing; well, she said so then, but now she acknowledges that she was mistaken). But a LOT of the opposition to Affordable Healthcare was generated by the insurance industry trying to muddy the water. They wanted to only insure healthy people, wanted to be able to deny coverage to people with preexisting conditions did not want to insure kids on parents policies, wanted to limit the kinds of things they would cover, etc., while also misleading people by paying "consultants" to create divisive myths such as the absurd lie that national healthcare would mean "Death Panels." The fact that it has taken us so long to get to this place has in large part been because insurance companies don't want to be good citizens.

They also do other unpleasant things, like talk cities and towns to pass laws against "aggressive breeds" of dogs. And if they can't get it passed as laws, they force buildings with rental leases to ban such "aggressive" breeds (and just how silly this is can be seen that one of the gentlest breeds in the word, the Great Dane, is included on that list, as well as the Bassett House - bassett hounds might be incredibly loud, but no one who has actually met a bassett house could be afraid of anything other than being slimed).

But despite my own complaints with insurance companies (I worked for what was before the collapse of 2008 for what was the largest insurance company in the US and the third largest company of any kind - we weren't the company that was supposed to be "Too big to fail" but we were significantly larger than that company), they play a crucial role in American life. 98% of the people on this board wouldn't have a job without companies willing to assume risk for a price. And furthermore, insurance companies fund most really expensive building projects. Say you want to build a new office complex. No bank could lend you that kind of money. They simply don't have enough money. But insurance companies do. My ex-wife was an attorney whose job was to fly around the US handing over checks cut by insurance companies to finalize a project. I'm not sure why they don't do this via wire transfers, but for whatever reason, she used to come home from work with a $35,142,072.18 check in her briefcase (we used to speculate where that 18 cents came from). The source of the check was always Zurich or Mass Mutual or AIG, never Chase Manhattan or Bank of America.

If you eliminated insurance companies tomorrow, economic life in America would shut down a few minutes after that.

My point would not be to end insurance just make them more accountable.  How did they get more money than banks because they have kept way more than they pay out and will fight you tooth and nail to keep from ever having to pay out.  Again they should be nonprofit only ever keeping enough money to pay out there policies and pay there employees.  Not make there board Billions of dollars.
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nchogg

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Re: RW III suing insurance companies
« Reply #149 on: May 03, 2018, 07:53:37 am »

I'm actually more on your side than you realize.  All i'm saying is we live in a world of buyer beware, read contracts fully before you sign because you will spend a lot of money on legal fees trying to get what you thought/promised and most of the time it's covered in the contract or not fight it and get nothing.  With regards to the RWIII deal, who knows.  I do know who is representing the defendant but do not know details, my guess is that there was some type of amendment and it was not conveyed or read before RWIII signed the contract, but pure speculation on my part.
That is correct. I read all documents before I sign, ask questions and have some changed and initialize any changes. Small print is there for a reason and if you do not read you can have it stuck to you.
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