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Author Topic: Empty Seats  (Read 1084 times)

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Racinray

Empty Seats
« on: April 22, 2018, 01:49:01 pm »

I know we all have talked a little bit about the empty seats in all the NASCAR races and was just curious of what's everyone's thoughts on why you think it's gotten this far down.
I've read on other message boards the reasons why those folks thought was the reasons, I'm curious what everyone on here thinks.
I think TV has a lot to do with it. Why go spend all that money to go to the races when I can stay home and watch it on TV and actually watch it better.
I want to hear what others think.
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ricepig

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 01:56:01 pm »

It's boring for the most part. Outside of the super speedways, Bristol, and the road courses, I won't watch 25% of the TV coverage. I went to those tracks and Ft Worth years ago and really don't have much desire to go back. As you said, you can see it much better on TV.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 02:47:28 pm »

I know we all have talked a little bit about the empty seats in all the NASCAR races and was just curious of what's everyone's thoughts on why you think it's gotten this far down.
I've read on other message boards the reasons why those folks thought was the reasons, I'm curious what everyone on here thinks.
I think TV has a lot to do with it. Why go spend all that money to go to the races when I can stay home and watch it on TV and actually watch it better.
I want to hear what others think.

It is boring. Why ? Numerous reasons. Cars have had way too much downforce the past 10 yrs so too easy to drive. Hell even Richmond last night was boring the first 300 laps.  Way too many mile and a half tracks were built in the last 20 years. Take races away from some and add short tracks. They should have increased the banking at Texas on the repave and made it a plate race. Place would be a sellout watching a pack of cars go around for 334 laps
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2018, 02:49:39 pm »

It's somehow Brian France's fault.  I just don't like him.
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Racinray

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 03:43:34 pm »

It's somehow Brian France's fault.
I keep reading this and it all started when he took over.
Watching the NHRA race and theres not many empty seats there, granted there is fewer seats.
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 06:09:31 pm »

I keep reading this and it all started when he took over.
Watching the NHRA race and theres not many empty seats there, granted there is fewer seats.

Look how many changes started seemingly as soon as he took over.  That abortion known as the Car-of-Tomorrow.  Bigger emphasis on cookie cutter tracks.  The Chase and now the Playoff thingy they got going on.  Rule changes every year, and even during the season.  Changing rules to help Toyota get settled in.  Refusing to punish certain people or teams that constantly get caught cheating - they all but shut MWR down but keep giving the 48 team slaps on the wrist.

The best thing that's happened under his watch was finally bringing the GWC up to the big stage so that running the final 10 laps under caution won't happen anymore.

In my view, NA$CAR appears to have become a constant source of manufactured excitement, by executives who at times seem out of touch with the fans.  Much like Washington DC.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 06:08:46 am »

Seriously I think the biggest problem is the cars. Still way too much downforce . Remove splitters and return the valence. Raise the hell out of side skirts because they are still basically on the ground. Make those things hard to drive at 170 mph.
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Warbirdhog

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 09:02:55 am »

Look how many changes started seemingly as soon as he took over.  That abortion known as the Car-of-Tomorrow.  Bigger emphasis on cookie cutter tracks.  The Chase and now the Playoff thingy they got going on.  Rule changes every year, and even during the season.  Changing rules to help Toyota get settled in.  Refusing to punish certain people or teams that constantly get caught cheating - they all but shut MWR down but keep giving the 48 team slaps on the wrist.

The best thing that's happened under his watch was finally bringing the GWC up to the big stage so that running the final 10 laps under caution won't happen anymore.

In my view, NA$CAR appears to have become a constant source of manufactured excitement, by executives who at times seem out of touch with the fans.  Much like Washington DC.


You hit more than one nail on the head in my view. The constant rule changing and manufactured 'excitement' for sure. I agree that the GXC is a good thing and the best thing I like about the 'chase' format is that a driver can no longer go into Homestead and only need to finish the race or '20th or better' to win the championship. They actually have to try to win the race or finish in front of 3 other drivers to win it, no more gimmes.
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riccoar

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 11:03:53 am »

People want speed, so taking that away is not an issue.  Also, the playoff is a good thing.  That resulted from the old Cup format.  Now the COT was abysmal and the hit the economy took.  All you have to do is look at all the sponsors of the late 90's and early 2000's that are no longer there.
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grayhawg

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2018, 12:09:20 pm »

They have made it too even, all bodys have to be the same with vinyl stick on grills. And that's just to help also rans to be more competitive. Racing was better with manufacture's body and a simple weight per CID rules.
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riccoar

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 02:18:49 pm »

Once the Mustangs get there, it will be more like the real bodies.  I think it would be good to have Dodge back too.

ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 04:47:32 pm »

People want speed, so taking that away is not an issue.  Also, the playoff is a good thing.  That resulted from the old Cup format.  Now the COT was abysmal and the hit the economy took.  All you have to do is look at all the sponsors of the late 90's and early 2000's that are no longer there.

I don't care about speed. I want bumping and banging. Not so much wrecks but bumping and banging like we saw the last 50 laps Saturday and the prev week at Bristol
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10thPlanet

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 01:29:43 pm »

Cookie cutter tracks, not enough short tracks. Sick of the aero component, fuel mileage and tires that last 425 laps. Build a 1/4 mile, run inverted heat races, and 250 lap feature. Let them choose what tire brand and compound. They can build stadium like seating around the track, and still have 100K+ seats. Too many rules, too many babies. The ones that threaten to quit let them go, someone competitive will replace them. Run the ASA/All Pro/ARTGO tracks of the 70's and 80's. Stands will be full. TV ratings will be off the charts.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 05:43:27 pm »

Seriously I think the biggest problem is the cars. Still way too much downforce . Remove splitters and return the valence. Raise the hell out of side skirts because they are still basically on the ground. Make those things hard to drive at 170 mph.

2001 cars. Click to enlarge

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East Clintwood

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2018, 12:51:55 pm »

It's not TV

The races have been televised for 50 years or more.

The drivers are boring, sanitized versions of what they used to be.

The cars are all the same/  They actually used to have different cars, not just decals.  It used to mean something to be a Chevy fan.  Or a Ford or Dodge fan.  What's the point now?  My decals are better than your decals?

The rules are stupid now.  Go back to the format of the '80's/'90's.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2018, 10:27:13 am »

It's not TV

The races have been televised for 50 years or more.

The drivers are boring, sanitized versions of what they used to be.

The cars are all the same/  They actually used to have different cars, not just decals.  It used to mean something to be a Chevy fan.  Or a Ford or Dodge fan.  What's the point now?  My decals are better than your decals?

The rules are stupid now.  Go back to the format of the '80's/'90's.

This.

They lost me after the Ferko Lawsuit. My dad’s entire extended family lives within 15 miles of Darlington.

One more reason to hate Texas
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2018, 09:16:21 pm »

Man there is damn near nobody at the Texas truck race tonight. How do they justify having this race ?

Racinray

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2018, 09:39:45 pm »

Man there is damn near nobody at the Texas truck race tonight. How do they justify having this race ?
Indy cars won't have much more.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2018, 09:45:00 pm »

Ticket price too great for the real fans?    I reckon that’s what NASCAR gets for catering to the finicky blue blood crowd....

Racinray

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2018, 07:42:28 am »

Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2018, 11:06:52 am »

Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?

Agree 100% with ya. Keep em' out.

On another note Keselowski said the other day they don't need to run tha all star rules package anywhere but the all star race. Says running it elsewhere will cause the best drivers to go to other forms of racing :-)  Frick Brad ! He best learn he is there to entertain and put butts in the seats and they are failing miserably at that. I've bought my last ticket to Texas Motor Speedway unless they run the all star package there. I'm sick of wasting my money on boring races there.

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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2018, 11:53:55 am »

Agree 100% with ya. Keep em' out.

On another note Keselowski said the other day they don't need to run tha all star rules package anywhere but the all star race. Says running it elsewhere will cause the best drivers to go to other forms of racing :-)  Frick Brad ! He best learn he is there to entertain and put butts in the seats and they are failing miserably at that. I've bought my last ticket to Texas Motor Speedway unless they run the all star package there. I'm sick of wasting my money on boring races there.

Score 1 for Ty Dillon with his response to Keselowski

"I guess we will find out who cares about our sport and who cares about themselves! "
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Racinray

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2018, 09:10:07 pm »

Indy cars won't have much more.
Actually a decent crowd, I was wrong.
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2018, 09:21:03 pm »

I'm actually surprised too at how many people are at the Indy race
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Racinray

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2018, 09:50:46 pm »

Never been to a Indy car race, I'll make it to one eventually.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2018, 09:57:30 am »

Please let it happen at both Texas races in 2019

http://www.racinboys.com/news/?i=63518
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holeinthewall

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2018, 06:31:58 am »

Next Sunday will be a sell out.   They should take one of the Pocono dates and got to Mid Ohio or Elkhart Lake.
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Warbirdhog

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2018, 10:57:30 am »

Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?


My thoughts on this would be to retain limiting the number of races the cup drivers can enter but reduce the 5 year number down to 3 or even 2 years for those recently moved to Cup. I am a Kyle Bush fan but still pull for an xfinity driver to win (except for the Hendrick lite drivers although I do like Allgaier). The value I see in the cup drivers is that with some of the xfinity drivers being moved up into cup so fast these days, it gives them a front row seat experience of what they will be up against and a look at how the cup drivers work passes and grooves. And that is something that even the xfinity drivers have voiced at times when asked about it.

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Team21

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2018, 10:59:24 am »

In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.
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DeWayne R

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2018, 11:01:24 am »

The little dirt track we went to last weekend at Fairbury, ILL was a standing room only crowd. Pop. 3968 during race weekend bout 10,000 wondering around.

holeinthewall

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:34 pm »

Quote
grow up north and out west

You ever been up north?  There are more local tracks than in the south I promise you.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2018, 04:56:34 pm »

In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.

The mile and a halfs killed NASCAR along with the front splitters and side skirts basically touching the ground giving them tons of downforce. Fix the cars and run the all-star package on the mile and a halfs along with maybe dropping a few races from those tracks and moving to short tracks or road courses.
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Warbirdhog

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2018, 11:33:42 am »

In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.

Nothing wrong with that rant.

 It really hit the steep slope (along with going hollywood) when the 'Car of Tomorrow' was shoved on the teams.

Warbirdhog

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2018, 11:32:49 am »

Once the Mustangs get there, it will be more like the real bodies.  I think it would be good to have Dodge back too.


Well, sorta kinda.. I guess



https://galleries.nascar.com/gallery/2343/first-look-2019-monster-energy-series-ford-mustang#/0

holeinthewall

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2018, 01:28:40 pm »

Looks good. 
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riccoar

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2018, 10:00:25 am »

Toyota Supra to Xfinity in 2019.  I'm sure it will move to Cup shortly after.
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2018, 03:08:53 pm »

I rarely cheer for Toyota drivers - Natalie Decker being the exception - but I hvae to say TRD's dedication to the Nascar programs has been nothing short of impressive.
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 01:13:18 pm »

Please let the All Star package come to most of these places. Especially down here at both Texas races. I want to see that place packed with fans again

http://www.espn.com/jayski/cup/2018/story/_/id/24217991/nascar-working-2019-rules-package
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2018, 03:25:03 pm »

Same story for decades now - the cars are sooooo dependent on clean air. 

Harvick, again, had the faster car and just has so much trouble pulling off a pass on the 78 up front. 

Nascar needs to find some way to ensure multiple grooves of racing, whether that's by putting glue on the tracks, reducing aero-dependency (like they've promised for years), using softer tires that put rubber on the track faster, or something. 
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2018, 03:56:42 pm »

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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2018, 03:58:29 pm »

^ Single-issue voter
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2018, 04:02:43 pm »

^ Single-issue voter

Single issue when it comes to boring mile and a half tracks
Give me a reason to drive 30 miles to Texas Motor Speedway again. Races are painfully boring there
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2018, 04:15:42 pm »

What's another viable option besides the restrictor plates?  More stages?  Elimination heat races?  Snipers?  Set up a Figure-8 track in the infield?
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ImHogginIt

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2018, 04:16:41 pm »

What's another viable option besides the restrictor plates?  More stages?  Elimination heat races?  Snipers?  Set up a Figure-8 track in the infield?


Figure 8 please and rain tires if needed
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Buff

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2018, 04:18:04 pm »

I'd love to see them run the original Daytona beach.  Throw in a dirt track or two during the season as well.
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holeinthewall

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2018, 04:01:29 am »

I'd love to see no competition cautions.  No stoppage between the stages and no pitting under yellow.
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Warbirdhog

Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2018, 08:20:40 am »

I'd love to see no competition cautions.  No stoppage between the stages and no pitting under yellow.

Agree on getting rid of the competition caution. Let them pit after the stages but only for adjustment, no fuel & no tire change.

Get rid of the splitter and side skirts, make them once again figure out how to drive the car without all that down force.
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holeinthewall

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Re: Empty Seats
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2018, 02:23:01 pm »

I have said before they want a competition caution then make where every car has to pit and take tires under green on say lap 30 or 31.  Let it stay green but make them pit for tires.
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