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Author Topic: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...  (Read 4018 times)

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rtr

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2018, 06:15:15 pm »

Melodrama created by the head coach. One of the most important things a head coach does is to lead his staff. A team cannot come close to maximum effectiveness if its coaching staff is divided.

In the end Houston Nutt ended up with the same problem that plagued Danny Ford. Both had a staff divided against itself which caused the players to pick sides and that was a disaster for Ford. Nutt had better players and in 2006 those players pulled off a miracle IMO. They won 10 games with a soap opera going on every day. If Nutt had stepped in and provided real leadership that team could have won a national championship.

The off-field melodrama you mentioned was not the issue. It was the melodrama within the team that did the damage.
That was a very talented team on both sides of the ball.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #101 on: May 02, 2018, 10:26:28 am »

So within this thread we've identified two teams, 1998 and 2006, that coulda/shoulda/woulda won a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, if only the dad-blamed coaches hadn't totally mucked it up.

I never knew Arkansas was that good of a program.

Honestly, I think 1998 and 2006 were very good teamsÖbut not national title worthy. Iíve always said even if Ark held on to beat Tenn in 1998, and then beat Miss St the next week, they werenít going to beat Tenn in the rematch. Tenn was a little bit better in my opinion. So, no national title. That doesnít even count the bowl opponent.

Likewise, 2006 was a very good team, but not quite national title worthy. Florida was equal or better, they beat us by 10. We also lost to USC by 40. Ark, good team but not great. Letís not exaggerate how great those teams were.

I think 1998 and 2006 came fairly close to maxing out their potential. Maybe coulda/shoulda got another win here or there, but thatís as far as Iíll go.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #102 on: May 02, 2018, 10:47:35 am »

Melodrama created by the head coach. One of the most important things a head coach does is to lead his staff. A team cannot come close to maximum effectiveness if its coaching staff is divided.

In the end Houston Nutt ended up with the same problem that plagued Danny Ford. Both had a staff divided against itself which caused the players to pick sides and that was a disaster for Ford. Nutt had better players and in 2006 those players pulled off a miracle IMO. They won 10 games with a soap opera going on every day. If Nutt had stepped in and provided real leadership that team could have won a national championship.

The off-field melodrama you mentioned was not the issue. It was the melodrama within the team that did the damage.
As someone said above, then you and I won't agree. But I won't patronize you by saying 'have a nice life' or something arrogant like that.

Nutt didn't create a melodrama, Frank Broyles did, by dictating the hiring of Malzahn as O-coordinator instead of a position coach as he had interviewed before. That was the first domino. That gave the Springdale crowd a sense of entitlement and empowerment as 'saviors' of the program. Which created resentment from another faction. And so on and so on. From there, people (coaches, players, fans) reacted in fairly predictable ways. Human nature.

Classic Broyles meddling. And I'm a huge Frank Broyles fan, but we all know what a football meddler he was.

If the boss doesn't like something, he should just make a change. Don't leave a guy dangling as a puppet and then micro-manage. That's true leadership.

Contrast to Long/Bielema. Long is not the legendary coach like Broyles, but still, he let Bielema do his thing. He didn't tell him who to hire/fire on his staff. He let him run off Pittman(by firing Chaney) and bring in the dunder-head Kurt Anderson, etc. Bielema was given enough rope to hang himself, and he did. That's exactly the way it should work, not by creating a mess like Broyles did. Let people do their jobs...or not do his job.

Nobody likes to be micro-managed, you or I included. Don't lie. I personally can't stand it.

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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #103 on: May 02, 2018, 10:53:50 am »

The other point I would make about 2006 is it points out the downside of being a 'one-program' state.

Sometimes you will hear this mentioned as a positive...from recruits, coaches, etc. How Arkansas is the 'only game in town'. No pro teams, no other major D-1 programs to compete against. There are plusses to that.

But there are downsides as well. When you're the only game in town, then things tend to get 'over-analyzed', nitpicked, etc. And that's kinda the way I felt about 2006. Was there nothing to talk about? I wouldn't say that. But to the extent that it became a 'soap opera' in my words, then yes, it was over-cooked. From a high level, it seemed a little ridiculous at times. When you're the only thing people focus on, that tends to happen.
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #104 on: May 02, 2018, 11:53:47 am »

1. Frank Broyles: Won the school's only national championship. Came within a whisker of winning two more. Only Arkansas coach with four 10 win seasons (one of the four, 11 wins).
2 Ken Hatfield: Highest winning percentage of any Arkansas coach (76%). Only coach besides Broyles with three 10 win seasons.
3. Hugo Bezdek: Coached the first unbeaten Arkansas team. Gave the school its first taste of success against quality competition. Was an innovator. Took an Intramural QB (Steve Creekmore) and turned him into a star who ran a no huddle offense in 1909-10.
4. Fred Thomsen: First Arkansas coach to beat Texas (1933). Only Arkansas coach to beat Texas four years in a row (1935,36,37,38). Took basketball players and turned them into receivers. Wore the Shorthorns out throwing the ball.
5. Bobby Petrino: One of only two Arkansas coaches to have an 11 win season. 

Best in thread.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2018, 07:29:26 am »

Inhogswetrust

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2018, 08:08:56 am »

#5 is easy when all the previous coaches before him coached in 11 and 10 game seasons....

What makes you think their record % wouldnít have been the same with more games played.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2018, 08:12:26 am »

As someone said above, then you and I won't agree. But I won't patronize you by saying 'have a nice life' or something arrogant like that.

Nutt didn't create a melodrama, Frank Broyles did, by dictating the hiring of Malzahn as O-coordinator instead of a position coach as he had interviewed before. That was the first domino. That gave the Springdale crowd a sense of entitlement and empowerment as 'saviors' of the program. Which created resentment from another faction. And so on and so on. From there, people (coaches, players, fans) reacted in fairly predictable ways. Human nature.

Classic Broyles meddling. And I'm a huge Frank Broyles fan, but we all know what a football meddler he was.

If the boss doesn't like something, he should just make a change. Don't leave a guy dangling as a puppet and then micro-manage. That's true leadership.

Contrast to Long/Bielema. Long is not the legendary coach like Broyles, but still, he let Bielema do his thing. He didn't tell him who to hire/fire on his staff. He let him run off Pittman(by firing Chaney) and bring in the dunder-head Kurt Anderson, etc. Bielema was given enough rope to hang himself, and he did. That's exactly the way it should work, not by creating a mess like Broyles did. Let people do their jobs...or not do his job.

Nobody likes to be micro-managed, you or I included. Don't lie. I personally can't stand it.




Iím sure Gus didnít like being micromanaged by Nutt either....................

By the way some say that Nutt would have never gotten any of those Springdale players without hiring Gus.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2018, 08:16:15 am »

The other point I would make about 2006 is it points out the downside of being a 'one-program' state.

Sometimes you will hear this mentioned as a positive...from recruits, coaches, etc. How Arkansas is the 'only game in town'. No pro teams, no other major D-1 programs to compete against. There are plusses to that.

But there are downsides as well. When you're the only game in town, then things tend to get 'over-analyzed', nitpicked, etc. And that's kinda the way I felt about 2006. Was there nothing to talk about? I wouldn't say that. But to the extent that it became a 'soap opera' in my words, then yes, it was over-cooked. From a high level, it seemed a little ridiculous at times. When you're the only thing people focus on, that tends to happen.

Thatís dumb. If you want to see over analyzing and nitpicking move to Alabama or Texas or Mississippi or Florida where there are more than one P5 teams.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2018, 09:17:27 am »


Iím sure Gus didnít like being micromanaged by Nutt either....................

By the way some say that Nutt would have never gotten any of those Springdale players without hiring Gus.
I would agree with both statements.
At the time, I thought it was great, as it meant the Springdale 5 was coming.
This happens all the time, hire a coach to get the player. It seemed like a shrewd move at the time.
No one knew at the time what other subtle problems it would create.
Nutt had interviewed Gus before, but it was a receivers coach. Frank forced the O-coordinator thing.
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younghog

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2018, 09:30:53 am »

You seriously think Nutt was a better coach than Holtz?

Yes..

A few non player miscues in SEC Champ game would have lead to BIG things and recruited very well.

GO HOGS


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DLUXHOG

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2018, 12:21:49 pm »

Yes..

A few non player miscues in SEC Champ game would have lead to BIG things and recruited very well.

GO HOGS




Inane and insane....
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2018, 01:41:22 pm »

I would agree with both statements.
At the time, I thought it was great, as it meant the Springdale 5 was coming.
This happens all the time, hire a coach to get the player. It seemed like a shrewd move at the time.
No one knew at the time what other subtle problems it would create.
Nutt had interviewed Gus before, but it was a receivers coach. Frank forced the O-coordinator thing.

It didnít matter. Nutt could have still refused to hire him. Maybe there would have been consequences from above but who knows for sure. One thing that can be predicted is IF he didnít hire Gus and get them then he would have been skewered by fans big time. Ironically by getting them all and them leaving except one, he got skewered even worse.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2018, 01:44:32 pm »

I would agree with both statements.
At the time, I thought it was great, as it meant the Springdale 5 was coming.
This happens all the time, hire a coach to get the player. It seemed like a shrewd move at the time.
No one knew at the time what other subtle problems it would create.
Nutt had interviewed Gus before, but it was a receivers coach. Frank forced the O-coordinator thing.

Other problems had been there before all that. That episode simply made all the issues bigger.
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Gonzo

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2018, 02:01:35 pm »

#5 is easy when all the previous coaches before him coached in 11 and 10 game seasons....

Ah, that must be why it happens so often


Go Hogs!
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #115 on: May 03, 2018, 04:33:17 pm »

It didnít matter. Nutt could have still refused to hire him. Maybe there would have been consequences from above but who knows for sure. One thing that can be predicted is IF he didnít hire Gus and get them then he would have been skewered by fans big time. Ironically by getting them all and them leaving except one, he got skewered even worse.
-> Nutt could have still refused to hire him ->

Yes, like Ken Hatfield did in 1987. Refuse Frank's suggestions.
Never smart to buck the boss, though. In a way, it worked out for Ken with two Cotton Bowls in 1988 and 1989, short-term, but long-term, no, as he got tired of the meddling and left for Clemson sight-unseen in 1990.

Common theme is Frank Broyles meddling:
Ken Hatfield got tired and left
Eddie Sutton 'crawled to Kentucky' to get away from Broyles
Nolan Richardson had similar problems with Broyles
Holtz got fired by Broyles, and later won a national title (and finished #3 at Ark in 1977)
Broyles created the 2006 soap opera with meddling in Nutt's program
Even John McDonnell, with 40 national titles, said at Broyles's death, 'he was a tough guy to work for, but fair'

I love Frank for all he did for the UA, really. But you can't deny a trail of debris with some very good coaches.

hog.goblin

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #116 on: May 03, 2018, 07:17:08 pm »

#5 is easy when all the previous coaches before him coached in 11 and 10 game seasons....

Easy?  I get your point, you are certainly more likely to win 10 or 11 games when you play 12 compared to 10.  But I wouldnít use the word easy.
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LZH

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2018, 07:25:41 pm »

I will always be convinced that if Nutt had just sat back and let Gus do his thing, we'd have fared much better in 2006 and 2007 (because Gus would have never split for Tulsa). Nutt could haved just grinned and taken all the credit....but...

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #118 on: May 04, 2018, 06:37:47 am »

Ah, that must be why it happens so often


Go Hogs!

Yea ...so often...2 years....
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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #119 on: May 04, 2018, 06:38:33 am »

Easy?  I get your point, you are certainly more likely to win 10 or 11 games when you play 12 compared to 10.  But I wouldnít use the word easy.

It's easy to be the only coach to do it is what I'm saying.
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hog.goblin

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #120 on: May 04, 2018, 09:30:25 am »

It's easy to be the only coach to do it is what I'm saying.

Well there was one other.  Letís hope there is a 3rd in the next five years
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niels_boar

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #121 on: May 04, 2018, 03:21:00 pm »

The SEC is much better now than the Nutt era.  Yes, we are around an 8 win a year program so that should be the expectation of a coach over the long term.  I hope Morris isn't Nutt.  Petrino avg 8.5 wins a season but there is a gap between him and Nutt in coaching ability. 

As far as the topic of the thread:

1. Broyles

I can't do a list beyond him.
Petrino the best X's and O's coach.  Crap leader and teams too often unprepared and had to scramble to beat inferior opponents or try to come back after bad starts.
Holtz best combo of X's and O's and motivation.  Allowed the Arkansas program to decline under his watch while he lost focus.
Hatfield has an impressive record.  Just don't look below the surface of the numbers and ignore his scorched earth exit where he left of us void of speed and talent to the point the WAC-like SWC embarrassed us on our way out and it took us years to recover.
I can't even get to a fifth. 
A thanks should be given to Ford for building SEC-level talent and finally giving us a competitive foundation.  Can't put him near a list for just his time at Arkansas though. 

I'm sure some of the pre-Broyles coaches were solid for their era.  No idea how to evaluate them.


This ^^. 

I'd include a #2 for Holtz simply because of the 1978 Orange Bowl, one of the highlights of my childhood.  I'll give him a mulligan for not sustaining the program due to coaching the best team of my lifetime.  If Petrino had sustained what he was doing for another 5 years, he might challenge for #1, but he never actually completed a great season at Arkansas and gets credit for sending the program into a tailspin.  Most of the rest in my lifetime have been bad hires when better candidates were available.  For instance, Jimmy Johnson should be #1.
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2018, 04:03:58 pm »

Disagree.

How can you put Bielema above JLS? JLS proved that you can win 4 games in a season while being bat sh*t crazy.... Bielema didn't have an excuse other than being flat out lazy.

http://forums.hogville.net/index.php?topic=660482.msg11509658#msg11509658
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:17:32 pm by SooiecidetillNuttgone »
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2018, 08:18:03 pm »

As someone said above, then you and I won't agree. But I won't patronize you by saying 'have a nice life' or something arrogant like that.

Nutt didn't create a melodrama, Frank Broyles did, by dictating the hiring of Malzahn as O-coordinator instead of a position coach as he had interviewed before. That was the first domino. That gave the Springdale crowd a sense of entitlement and empowerment as 'saviors' of the program. Which created resentment from another faction. And so on and so on. From there, people (coaches, players, fans) reacted in fairly predictable ways. Human nature.

Classic Broyles meddling. And I'm a huge Frank Broyles fan, but we all know what a football meddler he was.

If the boss doesn't like something, he should just make a change. Don't leave a guy dangling as a puppet and then micro-manage. That's true leadership.

Contrast to Long/Bielema. Long is not the legendary coach like Broyles, but still, he let Bielema do his thing. He didn't tell him who to hire/fire on his staff. He let him run off Pittman(by firing Chaney) and bring in the dunder-head Kurt Anderson, etc. Bielema was given enough rope to hang himself, and he did. That's exactly the way it should work, not by creating a mess like Broyles did. Let people do their jobs...or not do his job.

Nobody likes to be micro-managed, you or I included. Don't lie. I personally can't stand it.
Nutt had the ability to say no. He didn't and that's on him.

Ken Hatfield told Frank to stuff it in 87 when Frank told him to hire a different defensive coordinator.

On the other hand when Frank told Jack Crowe to go to a one back offense in 1991 Jack did it and made it work for the only successful season he had at Arkansas.

Not only did Nutt cave to Lindsey & Frank but he reacted like a little kid afterward. Be a man. Say no if you don't want outside suggestions but if you agree to make changes accept it then make it work.
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rtr

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2018, 09:06:48 pm »

Nutt had the ability to say no. He didn't and that's on him.

Ken Hatfield told Frank to stuff it in 87 when Frank told him to hire a different defensive coordinator.

On the other hand when Frank told Jack Crowe to go to a one back offense in 1991 Jack did it and made it work for the only successful season he had at Arkansas.

Not only did Nutt cave to Lindsey & Frank but he reacted like a little kid afterward. Be a man. Say no if you don't want outside suggestions but if you agree to make changes accept it then make it work.
If Nutt had accepted those changes, he would probably still be here.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2018, 09:07:50 pm »

As someone said above, then you and I won't agree. But I won't patronize you by saying 'have a nice life' or something arrogant like that.

Nutt didn't create a melodrama, Frank Broyles did, by dictating the hiring of Malzahn as O-coordinator instead of a position coach as he had interviewed before. That was the first domino. That gave the Springdale crowd a sense of entitlement and empowerment as 'saviors' of the program. Which created resentment from another faction. And so on and so on. From there, people (coaches, players, fans) reacted in fairly predictable ways. Human nature.

Classic Broyles meddling. And I'm a huge Frank Broyles fan, but we all know what a football meddler he was.

If the boss doesn't like something, he should just make a change. Don't leave a guy dangling as a puppet and then micro-manage. That's true leadership.

Contrast to Long/Bielema. Long is not the legendary coach like Broyles, but still, he let Bielema do his thing. He didn't tell him who to hire/fire on his staff. He let him run off Pittman(by firing Chaney) and bring in the dunder-head Kurt Anderson, etc. Bielema was given enough rope to hang himself, and he did. That's exactly the way it should work, not by creating a mess like Broyles did. Let people do their jobs...or not do his job.

Nobody likes to be micro-managed, you or I included. Don't lie. I personally can't stand it.



I'll just say this. Nutt was a lazy recruiter overall. Yes, he landed some great talent and much of it because of timing, a) there was a bumper crop of Arkansas players that contributed in his better years and 2) he had a better staff than many have had since that time who recruited and coached pretty well.

As for the Springdale kids, it is said that Nutt was given a mandate, you will sign these kids or find your position in jeopardy. Who was it that actually issued this mandate? I don't know, it may have been above Broyles, but Mike Irwin has a better idea of what all went down than any of us and that is one of the reasons that I hope that one day, he writes that book. In any case, Nutt knew he had to land those kids and Gus knew that he had to land those kids and both pursued their own agendas using these kids as leverage for their own individual ego/cause/outcome. The Springdale kids, unfortunately, were caught between two ego-driven men who were pursuing their own career driven agendas.

So Nutt got them signed (at least partially due to the influence of Gus) and kept his job. Then it appeared to eat at Nutt so much that he couldn't let it go and even when they weren't dominating (but still winning) he pulled the plug on Mustain and the stories surrounding that time were quite ugly. A lot of negativity within the team, splitting into factions, a divided team. Not good.

Mike is right, Nutt could have just said, "no". But he wasn't going to do that. Gus could have said that he wouldn't be complicit, but he wasn't going to do that either. Frank could have stayed out of it but I suspect that he felt pressure as well.

There is a lot about that time that is both forgettable and regrettable on all sides of the equation.

rtr

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2018, 09:12:40 pm »

Houston Nutt came so close to the promised land twice in his tenure here.  In 1998 we were one stoernover away and he was right there at the end in 2006, he let his own ego get in the way of success at the end of that year.
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rtr

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2018, 09:16:27 pm »

As someone said above, then you and I won't agree. But I won't patronize you by saying 'have a nice life' or something arrogant like that.

Nutt didn't create a melodrama, Frank Broyles did, by dictating the hiring of Malzahn as O-coordinator instead of a position coach as he had interviewed before. That was the first domino. That gave the Springdale crowd a sense of entitlement and empowerment as 'saviors' of the program. Which created resentment from another faction. And so on and so on. From there, people (coaches, players, fans) reacted in fairly predictable ways. Human nature.

Classic Broyles meddling. And I'm a huge Frank Broyles fan, but we all know what a football meddler he was.

If the boss doesn't like something, he should just make a change. Don't leave a guy dangling as a puppet and then micro-manage. That's true leadership.

Contrast to Long/Bielema. Long is not the legendary coach like Broyles, but still, he let Bielema do his thing. He didn't tell him who to hire/fire on his staff. He let him run off Pittman(by firing Chaney) and bring in the dunder-head Kurt Anderson, etc. Bielema was given enough rope to hang himself, and he did. That's exactly the way it should work, not by creating a mess like Broyles did. Let people do their jobs...or not do his job.

Nobody likes to be micro-managed, you or I included. Don't lie. I personally can't stand it.


Bielema also had enough rope to hang Long too.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #128 on: May 05, 2018, 11:26:54 am »

-> Nutt could have still refused to hire him ->

Yes, like Ken Hatfield did in 1987. Refuse Frank's suggestions.
Never smart to buck the boss, though. In a way, it worked out for Ken with two Cotton Bowls in 1988 and 1989, short-term, but long-term, no, as he got tired of the meddling and left for Clemson sight-unseen in 1990.

Common theme is Frank Broyles meddling:
Ken Hatfield got tired and left
Eddie Sutton 'crawled to Kentucky' to get away from Broyles
Nolan Richardson had similar problems with Broyles
Holtz got fired by Broyles, and later won a national title (and finished #3 at Ark in 1977)
Broyles created the 2006 soap opera with meddling in Nutt's program
Even John McDonnell, with 40 national titles, said at Broyles's death, 'he was a tough guy to work for, but fair'

I love Frank for all he did for the UA, really. But you can't deny a trail of debris with some very good coaches.

 In many cases what you call meddling was Frank doing his job.

1. Sutton was an out of control alcoholic. The only thing I blame Frank for is not dealing with the issue sooner. It got so bad that Frank told him to get help or get fired. Sutton refused and as Sutton's lawyers were negotiating the with athletic department's attorney for a buyout settlement, out of the blue, Sutton got the Kentucky offer.

2.Hatfield was stubborn. His defensive coordinator was horrible and Frank told him to say the word and he'd come up with the money to hire the best available. Hatfield refused and yes, Frank tried to fire him. But chancellor Ferritor said no. Then Frank did something very interesting. He got Rice to hire Fred Goldsmith as its head coach and the problem was solved.  Hatfield went on to win back to back Cotton Bowls. Frank was no fool. He knew what he was doing.

3. The Nolan thing was one of the few times Frank meddled when he should not have. He was under pressure from a number of high dollar boosters who wanted Nolan to stop talking about racism in college athletics. That situation festered for a number of years and when he got fired Nolan was ready to get out. He had worn himself out.

Again, what some call meddling was, for the most part, Frank doing his job as the Athletic Director.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #129 on: May 05, 2018, 11:53:58 am »

Houston Nutt came so close to the promised land twice in his tenure here.  In 1998 we were one stoernover away and he was right there at the end in 2006, he let his own ego get in the way of success at the end of that year.
Isn't this funny?
We were light years better than in the doldrums of the 90s, which was a horrible decade except for one decent year in 1995. And that year 8-5.
1998 was when I remembered how much fun football can be, the atmosphere, tailgating, fans, big stadiums, etc.
We were relevant again, competitive, and fun. Those were great years.
This is what I focus on. Instead, fans have a short memory and forget the horrible 90s and whatever you're doing well, they want more, more,more.
I'm never totally content either. Nothing wrong with trying to improve.
But my goodness. The 90s were so horrible I look at the Nutt years as the rebirth of Arkansas football, and good times. I don't look at what 'might have been'. Instead of looking at 'how close', do we forget how far we came to just get 'that close'.
Bobby Petrino was a better coach, no doubt about it.
But I'll always remember the Nutt era fondly, for the above reasons.
Just perspective, I guess.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #130 on: May 05, 2018, 11:58:23 am »

Nutt had the ability to say no. He didn't and that's on him.

Ken Hatfield told Frank to stuff it in 87 when Frank told him to hire a different defensive coordinator.

On the other hand when Frank told Jack Crowe to go to a one back offense in 1991 Jack did it and made it work for the only successful season he had at Arkansas.

Not only did Nutt cave to Lindsey & Frank but he reacted like a little kid afterward. Be a man. Say no if you don't want outside suggestions but if you agree to make changes accept it then make it work.
-> On the other hand when Frank told Jack Crowe to go to a one back offense in 1991 Jack did it and made it work for the only successful season he had at Arkansas. ->

Hmm...we have a different recollection. What I remember about 1990 was the worst defense in Ark history. 54-26 to TCU. 60+ to Houston, 49-17 to Texas. Horrific defense, probably still is the school record for points allowed in a season.
In contrast, in 1990 Quinn Grovey was still around and we were still putting points on the board. I can still remember the furious comeback down 49-20 to Texas Tech with final being 49-44 and Hogs on the 10-yard line.

Then in 1991 Joe Kines came along. The defense was drastically better, leading to an improved 6-6 season. I think one of the first plays of the season was a pick-six against Tulsa.

Improved defense. What Kines did in 1991 is still my #1 recollection of him. That made an impression on me.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #131 on: May 05, 2018, 12:03:47 pm »

In many cases what you call meddling was Frank doing his job.

1. Sutton was an out of control alcoholic. The only thing I blame Frank for is not dealing with the issue sooner. It got so bad that Frank told him to get help or get fired. Sutton refused and as Sutton's lawyers were negotiating the with athletic department's attorney for a buyout settlement, out of the blue, Sutton got the Kentucky offer.

2.Hatfield was stubborn. His defensive coordinator was horrible and Frank told him to say the word and he'd come up with the money to hire the best available. Hatfield refused and yes, Frank tried to fire him. But chancellor Ferritor said no. Then Frank did something very interesting. He got Rice to hire Fred Goldsmith as its head coach and the problem was solved.  Hatfield went on to win back to back Cotton Bowls. Frank was no fool. He knew what he was doing.

3. The Nolan thing was one of the few times Frank meddled when he should not have. He was under pressure from a number of high dollar boosters who wanted Nolan to stop talking about racism in college athletics. That situation festered for a number of years and when he got fired Nolan was ready to get out. He had worn himself out.

Again, what some call meddling was, for the most part, Frank doing his job as the Athletic Director.
Oh, as said, I love Frank. Overall.

Interesting what you say, though. So Frank as AD has the authority to do certain things, and intervene, as the boss. But *should* he always do that is the question.

Where I'm going with this is John White. As Chancellor and head over all departments, including athletics, he has the authority and right to do certain things, and intervene. But *should* he? Most of us know in the latter years, White was essentially running the athletic department, and Frank was neutered quite a bit. This harmed the UA quite a bit in my opinion, White was a horrible meddler.

Big picture, I think as a boss you should allow underlings to run their own business and only intervene if something dire is going on. Otherwise, give them enough rope to do their job well, or hang themselves.

HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #132 on: May 05, 2018, 12:06:41 pm »

Nutt had the ability to say no. He didn't and that's on him.

Ken Hatfield told Frank to stuff it in 87 when Frank told him to hire a different defensive coordinator.

On the other hand when Frank told Jack Crowe to go to a one back offense in 1991 Jack did it and made it work for the only successful season he had at Arkansas.

Not only did Nutt cave to Lindsey & Frank but he reacted like a little kid afterward. Be a man. Say no if you don't want outside suggestions but if you agree to make changes accept it then make it work.
-> Say no if you don't want outside suggestions but if you agree to make changes accept it then make it work. ->

I think this is a fair statement.
Although easier said than done.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #133 on: May 05, 2018, 12:11:36 pm »

I'll just say this. Nutt was a lazy recruiter overall. Yes, he landed some great talent and much of it because of timing, a) there was a bumper crop of Arkansas players that contributed in his better years and 2) he had a better staff than many have had since that time who recruited and coached pretty well.

As for the Springdale kids, it is said that Nutt was given a mandate, you will sign these kids or find your position in jeopardy. Who was it that actually issued this mandate? I don't know, it may have been above Broyles, but Mike Irwin has a better idea of what all went down than any of us and that is one of the reasons that I hope that one day, he writes that book. In any case, Nutt knew he had to land those kids and Gus knew that he had to land those kids and both pursued their own agendas using these kids as leverage for their own individual ego/cause/outcome. The Springdale kids, unfortunately, were caught between two ego-driven men who were pursuing their own career driven agendas.

So Nutt got them signed (at least partially due to the influence of Gus) and kept his job. Then it appeared to eat at Nutt so much that he couldn't let it go and even when they weren't dominating (but still winning) he pulled the plug on Mustain and the stories surrounding that time were quite ugly. A lot of negativity within the team, splitting into factions, a divided team. Not good.

Mike is right, Nutt could have just said, "no". But he wasn't going to do that. Gus could have said that he wouldn't be complicit, but he wasn't going to do that either. Frank could have stayed out of it but I suspect that he felt pressure as well.

There is a lot about that time that is both forgettable and regrettable on all sides of the equation.
-> I'll just say this. Nutt was a lazy recruiter overall. Yes, he landed some great talent and much of it because of timing, a) there was a bumper crop of Arkansas players that contributed in his better years and ->

Where have I heard this before? Oh yea, the Petrino critics. He just happened to 'luck' into a bumper crop of recruits. Adams/Wright,Mallett, etc.

I've shot that down before, and I'm shooting this down too. There's more going on than just 'luck'. Even if there are better instate players overall, you still have to sign them. DMac could have went anywhere in the country. But he didn't. Matt Jones, Shawn Andrews...they could have gone anywhere. Likewise, Joe Adams actually flipped his commitment from USC, and Mallett was strongly considering Tenn.

Those coaches did a good job of recruiting.

One of my favorite expressions, and so true: 'Luck is a way of describing someone else's success'. It's usually meant as a back-handed compliment
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #134 on: May 05, 2018, 12:26:29 pm »

-> I'll just say this. Nutt was a lazy recruiter overall. Yes, he landed some great talent and much of it because of timing, a) there was a bumper crop of Arkansas players that contributed in his better years and ->

Where have I heard this before? Oh yea, the Petrino critics. He just happened to 'luck' into a bumper crop of recruits. Adams/Wright,Mallett, etc.

I've shot that down before, and I'm shooting this down too. There's more going on than just 'luck'. Even if there are better instate players overall, you still have to sign them. DMac could have went anywhere in the country. But he didn't. Matt Jones, Shawn Andrews...they could have gone anywhere. Likewise, Joe Adams actually flipped his commitment from USC, and Mallett was strongly considering Tenn.

Those coaches did a good job of recruiting.

One of my favorite expressions, and so true: 'Luck is a way of describing someone else's success'. It's usually meant as a back-handed compliment

Check #2 in that which you quoted. He had a staff that did a good job of recruiting at times and they did benefit from some really excellent Arkansas talent at the time. There isn't a conspiracy theory involved here, just the truth. But you have your own brand of truth and everyone is entitled to their opinions whether right or wrong, and that includes me.
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rtr

Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #135 on: May 05, 2018, 06:42:52 pm »

Isn't this funny?
We were light years better than in the doldrums of the 90s, which was a horrible decade except for one decent year in 1995. And that year 8-5.
1998 was when I remembered how much fun football can be, the atmosphere, tailgating, fans, big stadiums, etc.
We were relevant again, competitive, and fun. Those were great years.
This is what I focus on. Instead, fans have a short memory and forget the horrible 90s and whatever you're doing well, they want more, more,more.
I'm never totally content either. Nothing wrong with trying to improve.
But my goodness. The 90s were so horrible I look at the Nutt years as the rebirth of Arkansas football, and good times. I don't look at what 'might have been'. Instead of looking at 'how close', do we forget how far we came to just get 'that close'.
Bobby Petrino was a better coach, no doubt about it.
But I'll always remember the Nutt era fondly, for the above reasons.
Just perspective, I guess.
It feels like we have Arkansas Razorback Football back with Chad Morris.  The last 5-6 years seems like we have been meandering in an alternative universe.  We shall see although we have to be patient this year and maybe next.
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hawganatic

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Re: Top 5 Arkansas football head coaches...
« Reply #136 on: May 10, 2018, 10:59:11 am »


Honestly, I think 1998 and 2006 were very good teamsÖbut not national title worthy.

I can agree with you about 1998.  Everybody points to the Stoernover, but if were were "national title worthy," our defense would have made the stop after that.  Even outside of that, we still had Miss State and the SEC Championship game to make it through.

2006 I think the team actually was NC worthy.  Best player in the nation, great defense (at least by our standards), and we had FL on the ropes in the SEC Championship game.  Some bad mistakes by individual players cost us that game.  We were right there but didn't quite finish.
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