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Author Topic: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..  (Read 3842 times)

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Hawg414

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2018, 04:43:50 pm »

I realize we all have our own opinions on the program. For the sake of the conversation here though, it would be nice if one could post a real statistic, without commentary, and not be labeled as a hater or a hugger or a racist or embracing mediocrity. If, for example, one posts that the team shot X% at the FT line, just discuss the X% they shot at the FT line. Posting FT % should not be a contentious issue.

the razorbacks shot 68% from the line for the game.
"well, thats what you get with mediocre mike."

man, cant believe darious hall is transferring.  doesnt make sense.
"why are you surprised.. mike is horrible at roster management."

definitely had a chance to make a run this year.  butler was beatable, yet we came out so flat.
"wouldnt have mattered if we were playing a girls high school team.  first round losses are all mike is ever going to accomplish here.  thats his ceiling.  and several of us have been saying it since the day he was hired." 

the DOW is up 500 today.. and unemployment rates are at a 40 year low.
"thank god mike is just a basketball coach and not a politician, bc if he was in office...."
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Swinesong1

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2018, 04:46:14 pm »

the razorbacks shot 68% from the line for the game.
"well, thats what you get with mediocre mike."

man, cant believe darious hall is transferring.  doesnt make sense.
"why are you surprised.. mike is horrible at roster management."

definitely had a chance to make a run this year.  butler was beatable, yet we came out so flat.
"wouldnt have mattered if we were playing a girls high school team.  first round losses are all mike is ever going to accomplish here.  thats his ceiling.  and several of us have been saying it since the day he was hired." 

the DOW is up 500 today.. and unemployment rates are at a 40 year low.
"thank god mike is just a basketball coach and not a politician, bc if he was in office...."
LOL!  Pretty much sums it up.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2018, 05:03:36 pm »

Haha....good stuff!  Don't we know by now what we have with MA?  Is anyone consistently suprised by anything? 

We weren't that far off this season.  Take that team and add a power forward who is mean with a nose for rebounding, and a quick PG who is a true faciliator and pesky defender, and that team would have been dangerous.  But...that didn't happen, so there's only one person to blame.  To date...that hasn't happened to get us to the sweet 16 like so many are clamoring for.  Will it ever happen?  I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but there is one thing I'm sure of.  We CAN do worse. 

I know HV and other places have this perception that elite coaches are chomping at the bit to come here, and we're willing to pay top dollar, but it might be a good idea not to hold your breath on that. 

I still think MA can find the right mix of players and chemistry and get close to what Nolan did in the early-mid nineties.  Will he?  I guess we'll find out, because as long as we have a winning record and are getting to the NCAAT...I don't anticipate change, and I don't think the fans should either.   
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2018, 10:24:32 pm »

Haha....good stuff!  Don't we know by now what we have with MA?  Is anyone consistently suprised by anything? 

We weren't that far off this season.  Take that team and add a power forward who is mean with a nose for rebounding, and a quick PG who is a true faciliator and pesky defender, and that team would have been dangerous.  But...that didn't happen, so there's only one person to blame.  To date...that hasn't happened to get us to the sweet 16 like so many are clamoring for.  Will it ever happen?  I don't know, and neither does anyone else, but there is one thing I'm sure of.  We CAN do worse. 

I know HV and other places have this perception that elite coaches are chomping at the bit to come here, and we're willing to pay top dollar, but it might be a good idea not to hold your breath on that. 

I still think MA can find the right mix of players and chemistry and get close to what Nolan did in the early-mid nineties.  Will he?  I guess we'll find out, because as long as we have a winning record and are getting to the NCAAT...I don't anticipate change, and I don't think the fans should either.   

In the early-mid 90's the hogs went to the final 4 three times and tbe elite 8 once
. What has he done in 16 yrs a hc to make you think he can get close to that type of sustained success?
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Randohoggie

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2018, 11:46:44 pm »

What gets me is that if some choose to be optimistic, it pisses some of you off

Sports are an escape from other stuff for many. They may want to believe in their team.

Why get pissed at them for wanting to enjoy their team? I know youíre not happy. I wish you were. But why do we have to make sure others are miserable?

None of us hired him.

None will fire him.

We all love the Hogs.

We may not agree with the leadership at times. Thereís lots of things about our teams I donít care for. But so what.

I donít think we know his ceiling. Maybe you do. You may be right. Or he may crash right through his so called ceiling this next season. The fact is he surpassed what heís done here in the ncaat at two other programs, so clearly heís figured it all out before. Maybe itíll happen here. Maybe it wonít.

If I choose to want to believe he can capture that again, should it really piss you off?

And if you donít think itís possible, should it bother me? It doesn't. Iím in charge of my own self.

I watch my teams for enjoyment. I donít have to critique every aspect of my teams. I will some. But at the end of the day, if following the Hogs made me miserable, Iím not sure Iíd be here wallowing in the misery that is otherís enjoyment.

To each their own though.

Outstanding.
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Randohoggie

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2018, 11:48:23 pm »

believe it or not, I wouldnít oppose a change.

But heís here and Iím supporting the program and hoping it comes together.

I donít even mind that some donít want him here. I just donít want to read about it every single time.

I prefer something in the middle from all positive and all negative.

He isnít perfect. We all know that. At least I assume we do.

Heís also competent. Shocking that has to be said. But yes I said it.

Neither of those statements is all that bold, yet both will set people off.

It is juvenile at best.

At least we have passionate fans.

Also outstanding.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2018, 03:26:46 am »

the razorbacks shot 68% from the line for the game.
"well, thats what you get with mediocre mike."

man, cant believe darious hall is transferring.  doesnt make sense.
"why are you surprised.. mike is horrible at roster management."

definitely had a chance to make a run this year.  butler was beatable, yet we came out so flat.
"wouldnt have mattered if we were playing a girls high school team.  first round losses are all mike is ever going to accomplish here.  thats his ceiling.  and several of us have been saying it since the day he was hired." 

the DOW is up 500 today.. and unemployment rates are at a 40 year low.
"thank god mike is just a basketball coach and not a politician, bc if he was in office...."

And he's one of the main instigators of thread derailment...  now he says every little thing shouldn't be so contentious, at least he is right about that.. so why is it?  Look no further than his post...
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2018, 09:08:40 am »

And he's one of the main instigators of thread derailment...  now he says every little thing shouldn't be so contentious, at least he is right about that.. so why is it?  Look no further than his post...

Perfect example of what is being talked about. One side thinks they should be able to say whatever darn they want, but anyone that disagrees are the ones starting trouble.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2018, 09:08:59 am »

In the early-mid 90's the hogs went to the final 4 three times and tbe elite 8 once
. What has he done in 16 yrs a hc to make you think he can get close to that type of sustained success?

Simple.  It's the same system.  Nolan wasn't any better of an x and o coach than MA is.  I complained then about the lack of fundamentals in rebounding, double teaming on the perimeter even when it was obvious open shooters were killing us, and no real set plays...just motion freelancing. 

The difference was...we had an unusual mix of players that made it VERY difficult for teams to defend us on offense, and at that time, a lot of teams hadn't encountered a slapping, hand checking, in your face defense like we played. 

The rules have made that style less effective, but he bottom line is...if MA gets good enough players with the right mix, and chemistry, why couldn't he have some sustained success? 

I have mixed emotions.  On one hand, I think we've seen what Mike is capable of as a coach.  On the other hand, I also see that we always seem to be a few players away from having a full team that can really do some damage. 

I think it's OK to hold out hope that we get a stud PG, TWO people down low who are great defenders and real threats to score, and a slasher/scorer, and a sharp shooter.  We had some of that last year with Barford, Macon, and Gafford, but the drop off after that was extreme.  Imagine...a stud PG, and a true power forward to compliment Gafford. 

Go back and watch Nolan's teams.  They had FAR more talent top to bottom.  Maybe we never get that again, and it was a fluke that he was able to raid Memphis like he did, AND we had some amazing in state talent (which is always required). 

I think it's more of a question of recruiting at this point.  We need a higher overall level of talent, and in the next two years, there aren't any excuses, because we have great facilities, no shadow, some recent tradition of winning, and a coach that the players seem to like. 

I'm more old school than some.  I'm looking at the overall picture.  Without the ability to hire a top notch coach that has proven to contend for NC's, who doesn't have a bad history of cheating etc., I don't know why people think an "up and coming" coach would come in and recruit any better.  In today's BB world, it's more about the talent on the team than is the x's and o's.  I don't for a second believe Bill Self could have coached this years team to any better than where we finished the season, so to me....it's more about the players. 

Mike will either get them in the next two years and reload, or he won't.  That's going to tell the tale.     

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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2018, 09:28:59 am »

Simple.  It's the same system.  Nolan wasn't any better of an x and o coach than MA is.  I complained then about the lack of fundamentals in rebounding, double teaming on the perimeter even when it was obvious open shooters were killing us, and no real set plays...just motion freelancing. 

The difference was...we had an unusual mix of players that made it VERY difficult for teams to defend us on offense, and at that time, a lot of teams hadn't encountered a slapping, hand checking, in your face defense like we played. 

The rules have made that style less effective, but he bottom line is...if MA gets good enough players with the right mix, and chemistry, why couldn't he have some sustained success? 

I have mixed emotions.  On one hand, I think we've seen what Mike is capable of as a coach.  On the other hand, I also see that we always seem to be a few players away from having a full team that can really do some damage. 

I think it's OK to hold out hope that we get a stud PG, TWO people down low who are great defenders and real threats to score, and a slasher/scorer, and a sharp shooter.  We had some of that last year with Barford, Macon, and Gafford, but the drop off after that was extreme.  Imagine...a stud PG, and a true power forward to compliment Gafford. 

Go back and watch Nolan's teams.  They had FAR more talent top to bottom.  Maybe we never get that again, and it was a fluke that he was able to raid Memphis like he did, AND we had some amazing in state talent (which is always required). 

I think it's more of a question of recruiting at this point.  We need a higher overall level of talent, and in the next two years, there aren't any excuses, because we have great facilities, no shadow, some recent tradition of winning, and a coach that the players seem to like. 

I'm more old school than some.  I'm looking at the overall picture.  Without the ability to hire a top notch coach that has proven to contend for NC's, who doesn't have a bad history of cheating etc., I don't know why people think an "up and coming" coach would come in and recruit any better.  In today's BB world, it's more about the talent on the team than is the x's and o's.  I don't for a second believe Bill Self could have coached this years team to any better than where we finished the season, so to me....it's more about the players. 

Mike will either get them in the next two years and reload, or he won't.  That's going to tell the tale.     



Agree about the talent. And with the one and done, or maybe soon to be two and done or none and done rule changes ( who know what it will end up looking like ) no way guys like Day/Mayberry/Miller or Corliss stay for three or 4 years.  It is amazing that 3 of those guys were 4 year players. The game changed due to the drafting of younger players.

But, the game also changed on the floor. Guards are not allowed to do alot of the things they were back then. Also, when Noland and a couple others, like Tark, were pressing the dog out of people, many team only had one or 2 good ball handlers. If you could force their 4 or 5, sometimes even their 3, to handle ball against the press, it was a turnover waiting to happen. Now, you have 7 footers that can put the ball on the floor and/or make really good passes, and are not scared with the ball in their hands. Also, teams have multiple guys that can knock down threes. The Hogs used to makeup for poor rebounding by creating turnovers or forcing you to take bad shots. They do not do that anymore.  The Hogs were plus 109 for the year in to's, that's only +3 per game, and they built much of that in ooc games against weak opponents. In SEC games they were only +17, less than 1 per game. They were -56 on the glass ( -36 in sec play ). They were 13th in FT% yet 5th in ftA per game in SEC play, so they got to the line alot but they gave up the most ft's of any team in sec play.

It is not the same system Nolan ran because what he ran depended on turning the opponent over. Mike has said he uses pressure to speed things up, not get turnovers. Problem there, with all the stoppages in play, plus better shooters and ball handlers, all it usually dies is give up open threes or layup/dunks.

So OK, it is all about the players. Mike has been a HC for 16 years, how many players like you say he needs has he ever recruited that were not family or kids of close friends?

As for saying Self could not have gotten more out of this years team, that may be true, but it is doubtful, under Self, the team would have been the same. 

As for the idea that the only way things get better is if they hire a big time currently successful elite coach, I do not buy that. Every HOF coach was a up and comer at some point.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2018, 01:01:38 pm »

Agree about the talent. And with the one and done, or maybe soon to be two and done or none and done rule changes ( who know what it will end up looking like ) no way guys like Day/Mayberry/Miller or Corliss stay for three or 4 years.  It is amazing that 3 of those guys were 4 year players. The game changed due to the drafting of younger players.

But, the game also changed on the floor. Guards are not allowed to do alot of the things they were back then. Also, when Noland and a couple others, like Tark, were pressing the dog out of people, many team only had one or 2 good ball handlers. If you could force their 4 or 5, sometimes even their 3, to handle ball against the press, it was a turnover waiting to happen. Now, you have 7 footers that can put the ball on the floor and/or make really good passes, and are not scared with the ball in their hands. Also, teams have multiple guys that can knock down threes. The Hogs used to makeup for poor rebounding by creating turnovers or forcing you to take bad shots. They do not do that anymore.  The Hogs were plus 109 for the year in to's, that's only +3 per game, and they built much of that in ooc games against weak opponents. In SEC games they were only +17, less than 1 per game. They were -56 on the glass ( -36 in sec play ). They were 13th in FT% yet 5th in ftA per game in SEC play, so they got to the line alot but they gave up the most ft's of any team in sec play.

It is not the same system Nolan ran because what he ran depended on turning the opponent over. Mike has said he uses pressure to speed things up, not get turnovers. Problem there, with all the stoppages in play, plus better shooters and ball handlers, all it usually dies is give up open threes or layup/dunks.

So OK, it is all about the players. Mike has been a HC for 16 years, how many players like you say he needs has he ever recruited that were not family or kids of close friends?

As for saying Self could not have gotten more out of this years team, that may be true, but it is doubtful, under Self, the team would have been the same. 

As for the idea that the only way things get better is if they hire a big time currently successful elite coach, I do not buy that. Every HOF coach was a up and comer at some point.

We agree on the new rules, and how limiting hand checking really hampered the defender's ability to stay glued to someone and physically prevent even a faster player from turning the corner on them.  That really changed more than some people realize. 

Of course there are some up and comers out there who will one day be the next great coaches.  Could we get one?  Possibly, but that's a crap shoot in many instances.  I just don't discount that fact that while some don't care for MA, we could certainly do much worse. 

I'm not a big MA fan.  The lack of basic fundamentals drives me bonkers when I watch our games.  But....as the years have gone on since Nolan, I've more or less learned to tolerate it.  The style is fun to watch.  I realize winning trumps style, but losing with a boring style...is the worst.  Thank you Pelphrey.   ::)
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #61 on: April 10, 2018, 01:15:02 pm »

We agree on the new rules, and how limiting hand checking really hampered the defender's ability to stay glued to someone and physically prevent even a faster player from turning the corner on them.  That really changed more than some people realize. 

Of course there are some up and comers out there who will one day be the next great coaches.  Could we get one?  Possibly, but that's a crap shoot in many instances.  I just don't discount that fact that while some don't care for MA, we could certainly do much worse. 

I'm not a big MA fan.  The lack of basic fundamentals drives me bonkers when I watch our games.  But....as the years have gone on since Nolan, I've more or less learned to tolerate it.  The style is fun to watch.  I realize winning trumps style, but losing with a boring style...is the worst.  Thank you Pelphrey.   ::)

Your last paragraph is where we differ. I do not think it is that much fin to watch probably 80% of the time. The 2nd half/OT vs TN was fun because both teams were playing well. Aub game in BWA was fun. FL in the sect was fun. But it is not fun watching teams run the same play book ( high ball screen ) or the seemingly dozen nights a year when the opponent just can't miss.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2018, 02:06:59 pm »

Your last paragraph is where we differ. I do not think it is that much fin to watch probably 80% of the time. The 2nd half/OT vs TN was fun because both teams were playing well. Aub game in BWA was fun. FL in the sect was fun. But it is not fun watching teams run the same play book ( high ball screen ) or the seemingly dozen nights a year when the opponent just can't miss.

Oh, I loved watching them this season.  Every team loses, and there's always a reason for it right?  I think most of our issues this season stemmed from one simple issue....we didn't want to play defense every night out, for whatever reason.  But...when your top scorers are some of the worst offenders, there's not much of an option with regard to replacing them.  So we saw lackadaisical play at times as a result. 

To take that a step further, if we drew almost anyone other than Butler, I think we would have probably progressed at least one more round, and maybe more if we didn't have to face a team with a true PG and great perimeter defenders.  Had we gotten a team that doesn't have great perimeter shooters, and weak defenders, it's a different story.  I know...to be the best, you still have to beat the best eventually, and I completely agree with that.  First round, or 3rd round.  But....the fire Mike discussions lose some luster at that point. 

I don't want another Heath or Pelphrey.  People hoping we'll get someone better....are hoping, and that's not a strategy.  They better KNOW they have someone who is going to succeed if they move MA out.  Otherwise, they only THINK they've seen how empty BWA can be.   ;) 
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2018, 02:40:38 pm »


I don't want another Heath or Pelphrey.  People hoping we'll get someone better....are hoping, and that's not a strategy.  They better KNOW they have someone who is going to succeed if they move MA out.  Otherwise, they only THINK they've seen how empty BWA can be.   ;)
 

Under that logic, almost no one would ever fire a coach because there is no way to KNOW someone is going to succeed.

 

To take that a step further, if we drew almost anyone other than Butler, I think we would have probably progressed at least one more round, and maybe more if we didn't have to face a team with a true PG and great perimeter defenders. 


And I am tired of that. The only way they can win is to play someone inferior. Knowing that if a team has a real PG, the Hogs are likely toast. And it is not just this last season, it is EVERY season. The song stays the same. Zone the Hogs on D, and run high ball screen on offense and you have a good shot to beat the Hogs.
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HF#1

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 02:53:10 pm »

My gut still tells me Mike was hired so that the AD and the BOT doesn't have to worry about basketball and they can focus on football. They can keep giving Mike 2 year extensions while he pumps out winning seasons. Make the tournament, field good teams, he ain't going anywhere.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2018, 03:12:19 pm »

Under that logic, almost no one would ever fire a coach because there is no way to KNOW someone is going to succeed.

And I am tired of that. The only way they can win is to play someone inferior. Knowing that if a team has a real PG, the Hogs are likely toast. And it is not just this last season, it is EVERY season. The song stays the same. Zone the Hogs on D, and run high ball screen on offense and you have a good shot to beat the Hogs.

Agree, nothing is concrete, and we've had even proven coaches fail.  But if they're going to get rid of MA, and hire someone like a Stan Heath based on ONE successful season at a mid-major, then that's nuts in my opinion.  Or Pelphrey? 

History shows that we've not done great with hiring BB coaches since Nolan, and I'm throwing MA in that group as well, because I don't think he's achieved what most fans hoped and expected him to after his success at Missouri. 

I still contend that what you see MA's teams play is virtually identical to what Nolan did, BUT he had guys like Corliss who were just going to rebound and play hard D because it was in his DNA.  That 94 team could play up tempo, or half court, because they had the talent to do it. 

I'm not saying he will, but I still think there's the potential for MA to get the players in to make his style successful on a higher level than what we've seen thus far. 

I think we've seen every bit of what he's capable of in-game.  I won't argue that, and there will always be some deficiencies.  I just don't think there will be a change for at least another two seasons now that he's had a run of NCAA tournaments, because while you can argue that it's the same song and dance and we've reached our ceiling, someone else will argue that we're just a whisker away from doing much better...with a true PG and gritty power forward on last year's team, for instance. 

So...I wouldn't look for change.  I would however look for the "fire MA" to continue on HV, because that's what people do.  :-) 
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Kevin

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2018, 03:20:16 pm »

neveryield on anderson
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HoopS

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2018, 03:44:45 pm »

Under that logic, almost no one would ever fire a coach because there is no way to KNOW someone is going to succeed.

And I am tired of that. The only way they can win is to play someone inferior. Knowing that if a team has a real PG, the Hogs are likely toast. And it is not just this last season, it is EVERY season. The song stays the same. Zone the Hogs on D, and run high ball screen on offense and you have a good shot to beat the Hogs.
although I didnít post it and Iím not sure I agree, the point isnít about playing an inferior opponent. Itís about matchups. Butler was a tough draw due to their strengths aligning well with our weaknesses. But Iíd also say thereís several others we may have not matched up well against. I actually feared Butler and thought weíd do better vs Purdue if weíd just get to them.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2018, 05:26:50 pm »

although I didnít post it and Iím not sure I agree, the point isnít about playing an inferior opponent. Itís about matchups. Butler was a tough draw due to their strengths aligning well with our weaknesses. But Iíd also say thereís several others we may have not matched up well against. I actually feared Butler and thought weíd do better vs Purdue if weíd just get to them.

True, and that's what I was getting at.  We had weaknesses, and we drew a team that was tailor made for exposing them.  Either way, if we had won that game or whoever else might have been our first round draw, the progression would have made it harder for the "that's as far as Mike can get us" crowd to gain traction. 

I don't think MA is a great coach.  I think he's a good coach, and a GREAT person.  I doubt it will be popular, but I don't think we can do better.  It's hard to say that, but when we've had openings, the big names have never been banging down the door, and up and comers haven't fared well here in basketball.  Maybe a revolving door of 1-2 year coaches to see if we can land a successful one is the way to go in today's CBB world, but I doubt it. 

I think most people knew it was time for BB to go in football.  We saw regression.  If/when we see that with Mike to a level that's unacceptable, then I'm assuming we'll see change.  I don't think winning seasons and trips to the NCAA are going to get him supplanted.  Maybe I'm wrong...but I don't think so.  I'm OK with that for the reasons I stated above. 
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porkinsons disease

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2018, 06:47:19 pm »

True, and that's what I was getting at.  We had weaknesses, and we drew a team that was tailor made for exposing them.  Either way, if we had won that game or whoever else might have been our first round draw, the progression would have made it harder for the "that's as far as Mike can get us" crowd to gain traction. 

I don't think MA is a great coach.  I think he's a good coach, and a GREAT person.  I doubt it will be popular, but I don't think we can do better.  It's hard to say that, but when we've had openings, the big names have never been banging down the door, and up and comers haven't fared well here in basketball.  Maybe a revolving door of 1-2 year coaches to see if we can land a successful one is the way to go in today's CBB world, but I doubt it. 

I think most people knew it was time for BB to go in football.  We saw regression.  If/when we see that with Mike to a level that's unacceptable, then I'm assuming we'll see change.  I don't think winning seasons and trips to the NCAA are going to get him supplanted.  Maybe I'm wrong...but I don't think so.  I'm OK with that for the reasons I stated above. 
So are you expecting us to make the tourney next year? If not, would you consider it regression? Does Mike get a pass because of the unbalanced roster...and the recent transfers. I am not bashing,trolling,or being condescending...just trying to get a feel where you are at and where you are at on CMA and what would have to happen to make you change your views on him. Go HOGS
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HoopS

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2018, 08:44:12 pm »

I think a lot will be about how we play.

If itís a team that you can see growing and maybe just didnít pick up enough early season wins to get in, a case could be made to keep him.

If we struggle to go .500, with Gafford back, I donít anticipate that Iíd be happy.

Again, itíll need to play out to know.

But letís say the team finishes strong and you can see them figuring it out and appear to be a dangerous team going forward, I doubt Iíd call for his head. 

All that said.

If that plays out and we move on, I wish him well and move on too. Simple as that. Iím always a fan of the UA first. Iíll get on board with the next guy.

If I believe he needs to be fired, youíll know.

But only if itís what I feel. I wonít follow the crowd. Never have and just wonít. Unless I agree. Not always popular to be that way but it is what it is.
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razorback1829

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2018, 08:48:37 pm »

I think a lot will be about how we play.

If itís a team that you can see growing and maybe just didnít pick up enough early season wins to get in, a case could be made to keep him.

If we struggle to go .500, with Gafford back, I donít anticipate that Iíd be happy.

Again, itíll need to play out to know.

But letís say the team finishes strong and you can see them figuring it out and appear to be a dangerous team going forward, I doubt Iíd call for his head. 

All that said.

If that plays out and we move on, I wish him well and move on too. Simple as that. Iím always a fan of the UA first. Iíll get on board with the next guy.

If I believe he needs to be fired, youíll know.

But only if itís what I feel. I wonít follow the crowd. Never have and just wonít. Unless I agree. Not always popular to be that way but it is what it is.

Even if Mike has the worst season he's ever had, his seat won't even be baby bottle warm. Bud Walton has more butts in the stands than the past 15 years, fans will come out, MA will win, go on a run, and this will all be moot.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2018, 08:55:32 pm »

Even if Mike has the worst season he's ever had, his seat won't even be baby bottle warm. Bud Walton has more butts in the stands than the past 15 years, fans will come out, MA will win, go on a run, and this will all be moot.
What, exactly, would it take for YOU to be ready for a change?

Spell it out, please.
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razorback1829

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2018, 09:08:50 pm »

What, exactly, would it take for YOU to be ready for a change?

Spell it out, please.

Give me 2 NCAA's misses in a row. If that happens from here on out, then it's time. If we are a consistent thing in the tournament again, we will make a run. It will happen soon too. We're due. Hell MA is due.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2018, 02:08:26 am »

Give me 2 NCAA's misses in a row. If that happens from here on out, then it's time. If we are a consistent thing in the tournament again, we will make a run. It will happen soon too. We're due. Hell MA is due.
Thank you for the answer.

But you do know ďdueĒ isnít really a thing, right?
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2018, 06:36:05 am »

Under that logic, almost no one would ever fire a coach because there is no way to KNOW someone is going to succeed.

Exactly. Iíve hired and fired a lot of people. Every time I hired them I though they were going to do a great job. Sometimes they did and sometimes they didnít. It also didnít matter sometimes what they had done elsewhere before.
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razorback1829

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2018, 08:16:45 am »

Thank you for the answer.

But you do know ďdueĒ isnít really a thing, right?

A number 16 seed beat a one seed. It was "due" to happen. Same thing with MA.. you don't coach at three different schools, make runs at 2 of them, and then not do it anymore. He's due just like I said. Y'all will try argue about every word lol.
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2018, 08:22:35 am »

Agree, nothing is concrete, and we've had even proven coaches fail.  But if they're going to get rid of MA, and hire someone like a Stan Heath based on ONE successful season at a mid-major, then that's nuts in my opinion.  Or Pelphrey? 

History shows that we've not done great with hiring BB coaches since Nolan, and I'm throwing MA in that group as well, because I don't think he's achieved what most fans hoped and expected him to after his success at Missouri. 

I still contend that what you see MA's teams play is virtually identical to what Nolan did, BUT he had guys like Corliss who were just going to rebound and play hard D because it was in his DNA.  That 94 team could play up tempo, or half court, because they had the talent to do it. 

I'm not saying he will, but I still think there's the potential for MA to get the players in to make his style successful on a higher level than what we've seen thus far. 

I think we've seen every bit of what he's capable of in-game.  I won't argue that, and there will always be some deficiencies.  I just don't think there will be a change for at least another two seasons now that he's had a run of NCAA tournaments, because while you can argue that it's the same song and dance and we've reached our ceiling, someone else will argue that we're just a whisker away from doing much better...with a true PG and gritty power forward on last year's team, for instance. 

So...I wouldn't look for change.  I would however look for the "fire MA" to continue on HV, because that's what people do.  :-) 

Agree on hiring a guy based on one year, almost always ends up badly. Also agree Mike is not going anywhere anytime soon. I am just of the opinion that is because of things not related to performance on the court.

As for your analysis that he's shown his best on the court, I agree with that, which means the only way the Hogs are going to do anything we have not already seen Mike has to out recruit people, and even many of his ardent backers admit he is not a great recruiter, so how is he going to start out recruiting people?
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2018, 08:49:59 am »

Agree on hiring a guy based on one year, almost always ends up badly. Also agree Mike is not going anywhere anytime soon. I am just of the opinion that is because of things not related to performance on the court.

As for your analysis that he's shown his best on the court, I agree with that, which means the only way the Hogs are going to do anything we have not already seen Mike has to out recruit people, and even many of his ardent backers admit he is not a great recruiter, so how is he going to start out recruiting people?

Maybe he won't have to.  Let's face it, without Corliss, no way we win a NC.  He was an in state kid who wanted to play for his state's flagship program from grade school.  Gafford is FAR from being Corliss, but that's the type of situation that we have to have happen....get all of the in state kids, and have them arrive on campus and be every bit as good as advertised, OR BETTER. 

That's really our best bet, is to consistently get the top kids from Arkansas, and have those kids be a cut above.  Then they need to have varying skill sets and compliment each other to have chemistry.  I realize that's not necessarily a great strategy, because a lot of it is luck, but it doesn't prevent it from happening, and in turn, pushing MA over the edge toward a higher plateau of success. 
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HoopS

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2018, 09:53:03 am »

Let me ask a question about recruiting and if we have a role in it.

Do you think recruits read message boards? If they do, do you think your attitude towards the program, good or bad, could influence them in any way?

Could we sway opinions about our program here? If we can, are we making recruiting to the UA harder or easier on our coaches?
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liljo

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2018, 10:32:26 am »

Let me ask a question about recruiting and if we have a role in it.

Do you think recruits read message boards? If they do, do you think your attitude towards the program, good or bad, could influence them in any way?

Could we sway opinions about our program here? If we can, are we making recruiting to the UA harder or easier on our coaches?
Man I've been asking this question since I discovered Hogville.

It is worrisome to me that kids get bashed around here routinely, and then seemingly grown men will take bashing to the next level and attack those who defend the kids. Coaches are just absolutely bashed, but at least they're grown men and I guess that's all part of why "they make the big bucks."

I joined right at the time the FB coaching search was going strong. I recall being alarmed as I saw the 2017-2018 recruiting class belittled by posters. There was negative talk flying all over the place. I remembered wondering "how does this help the U of A?"

I asked about it and the common answer was "kids don't read this stuff," or I'd get insulted for even asking about it.

Then I really studied it out. It became clear that the "bashers" (can't think of a better term) really are the minority. They just post a lot, thus they seem to be everywhere. They show up within 5-10 posts of any positive thread. And they dig, berate, bitch, moan, insult, and just work on the nerves of anyone who says a positive word about the program.

I doubt very seriously that most of them have ever cheered for Arkansas to begin with. I've thought about copying their styles and joining message boards at 'Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc. under a fake name, pretending to be a fan, and then insulting all their recruits and coaches. But you'd have to be a total weasel to do stuff like that, so I never did.

Pay close attention though and you'll find a lot of great people and fans here. Now some are downright blunt, but they love the Hogs. Others are what the bashers call "homers" or "huggers" etc. I'm sort of in there, ever hopeful (even STILL rooting for Mike Anderson, and cannot wait to see these new kids come in), and positive to a fault. And there's all kinds in between. But you won't see true Hog fans bashing current players or recruits. They need encouragement. None of us know how hard they work. As long as they are giving their best, they should get the best the fans can give 'em.

They are kids. At best they are extremely young men. They will make mistakes. But if they are working to improve, they don't need a bunch of adults bashing them on the internet. There's No Way that can HELP.
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hawg66

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #81 on: April 12, 2018, 10:47:24 am »

Thank you for the answer.

But you do know ďdueĒ isnít really a thing, right?
About as much of a thing as some invisible ceiling.
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hogsanity

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Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #82 on: April 12, 2018, 10:53:55 am »

I have a 19 yr old college fr son and a 15 yr old hs fr son at home, both are big into sports, and neither read message boards about any team. Small sample size I know, but I am just not sure teens are into message boards at all. Now, their parents/well wishers/hangers on, who knows.
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HoopS

Re: EVERY SINGLE POST started in Jump ball turns into a "Fire MA" tirade..
« Reply #83 on: April 12, 2018, 11:24:06 am »

I have a 19 yr old college fr son and a 15 yr old hs fr son at home, both are big into sports, and neither read message boards about any team. Small sample size I know, but I am just not sure teens are into message boards at all. Now, their parents/well wishers/hangers on, who knows.
many parents, such as us, are.

If we are, and we in some way become shaped by things posted here, wouldnít it be possible we then let that influence our opinion of a school and even subconsciously effect how we may help them in their important decision?

I know for a fact that many consider a coaches ďseatĒ when deciding.

If you sense a school is just completely put off with the coach you are considering, do you stick with that plan or possibly seek out another coach who seems to be safe?

Iím lucky enough to coach some very talented players. Many with big decisions before them. Parents absolutely try to get a vibe for the coach and if he will be able to fulfill his promise of taking care of their kid who is going away to school.

Just something to think about.

And yes, Iíve pointed some to UA and will continue to.
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