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Author Topic: If you had to make an all-time Arkansas starting 5, who would be your starters?  (Read 3866 times)

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k.c.hawg


Y'all 'member when Rotnei Clarke scored 51 in a game? I 'member. Sign him up. Kid was lights out.

Alvin Robertson could have scored 51 on him and held him in single digits, if not scoreless. Sidney and Ron Sr the same. Rotnei might could hit some 3's but he was a major liability in every other facet of the game.
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joeyself


When I think energy I think Darrell Hawkins

Some commentator used a line that went approximately like this: "When Hawkins comes into the game, the pace goes from frantic to ridiculous."

So, my wife and I started calling him "Mr. Ridiculous"--but in a complimentary way.  He did add energy to a line-up.

JcS
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popcornhog


Anybody?

Including a team with Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson...let's just say the original Dream Team.  Anybody??

But...I guess you mean..against other Arkansas players.

Pretty sure he meant other all time teams.

UNC

PG Kenny Smith
SG Michael Jordan
SF James Worthy
PF Bob McAdoo
C Sam Perkins

UK

John Wall
Rex Chapman
Jamal Mashburn
Anthony Davis
Demarcus Cousins

UCLA

Gail Goodrich
Reggie Miller
Ed O’Bannon
Bill Walton
Lew Alcinder

The UA all time starting 5 would be top 10-15, but not unbeatable.




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pigroots


PG Ron Brewer
SG Super Sid (Best player to ever wear a hog uniform)
SF Joe Johnson (toughest choice because he only stayed 2 years)
PF Corliss Williamson
C Dean Tolson

Due respect to Lee Mayberry, Martin Terry,Marvin Delph, Todd Day, and Oliver Miller who would be my 2nd team.
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hog.goblin

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Pretty sure he meant other all time teams.

UNC

PG Kenny Smith
SG Michael Jordan
SF James Worthy
PF Bob McAdoo
C Sam Perkins

UK

John Wall
Rex Chapman
Jamal Mashburn
Anthony Davis
Demarcus Cousins

UCLA

Gail Goodrich
Reggie Miller
Ed O’Bannon
Bill Walton
Lew Alcinder

The UA all time starting 5 would be top 10-15, but not unbeatable.






Chris Jackson
Pistol Pete
Brandon Bass
Glen Davis
Shaq

tough team, but we could take 'em
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TheRazorback500

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Triplets plus Johnson and Gafford. WPS
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Wooderson


Mayberry
Moncrief
Johnson
Williamson
Portis

I'm confused by the picking of Big O over Portis. Portis was the conference POY. Big O was a very good player, but didn't have the tenacity, size, or skill of Bobby.
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Wooderson


Chris Jackson
Pistol Pete
Brandon Bass
Glen Davis
Shaq

tough team, but we could take 'em

Amazing. LSU probably has one of the top five all time teams and has zero to show for it. That team is sick.
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popcornhog


Chris Jackson
Pistol Pete
Brandon Bass
Glen Davis
Shaq

tough team, but we could take 'em

LSU doesn’t have a deep bench or volume in their all time team, but their starting 5 would be among the best ever.
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hawkhawg


I'm confused by the picking of Big O over Portis. Portis was the conference POY. Big O was a very good player, but didn't have the tenacity, size, or skill of Bobby.

I Think that the reason they pick Big O was because He was a true center.  Plus Big O was also the Conference POY in 90-91.
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k.c.hawg


Mayberry
Moncrief
Johnson
Williamson
Portis

I'm confused by the picking of Big O over Portis. Portis was the conference POY. Big O was a very good player, but didn't have the tenacity, size, or skill of Bobby.

Big O was conference POY as well in 90-91. Oliver Miller had freakish skills. The best rim defender in school history, best outlet passer in school history, best passing big man in school history (12 assists vs LSU), shot 70% from the field in 90-91 and 64% for career, soft hands, understood how to use his body. His 64% career FG % is 17th in NCAA history. Portis would be a duplication of Todd Day to some degree on the offensive end, Miller would give you a true center, rim defender a master of making the offense run inside out. At Arkansas: 1st in Blocks, 3rd in rebounds, 1st in FG%,
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Wooderson


Big O was conference POY as well in 90-91. Oliver Miller had freakish skills. The best rim defender in school history, best outlet passer in school history, best passing big man in school history (12 assists vs LSU), shot 70% from the field in 90-91 and 64% for career, soft hands, understood how to use his body. His 64% career FG % is 17th in NCAA history. Portis would be a duplication of Todd Day to some degree on the offensive end, Miller would give you a true center, rim defender a master of making the offense run inside out. At Arkansas: 1st in Blocks, 3rd in rebounds, 1st in FG%,

Fair points. Tough to argue. I will say that Bobby was a better rebounder and had a more rounded game. Put him on a team with MayDay and I think he shoots at a high percentage like Big O.  No need for him to take jump shots.  In my mind Big O was a better defender and passer.  Bobby could score so many ways.  It's a tough call.
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HoginMemphis


F: Corliss W.
F: Todd Day
G: Sidney Moncrief
G: Marvin Delph
H/L Post: Scott Hastings or Joe Klein.

Could interchange Alvin R. or Darrell W. for Delph.

That leaves out 1st team All American Ron Brewer, Lee Mayberry, Oliver Miller, Scotty Thurman, Joe Johnson, US Reed, and 3 or 4 others.

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hawg66

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Mayberry
Moncrief
Johnson
Williamson
Portis

I'm confused by the picking of Big O over Portis. Portis was the conference POY. Big O was a very good player, but didn't have the tenacity, size, or skill of Bobby.
Big O was player of the year in the SWC as a sophomore. Before the weight gain. He was fantastic.
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EastexHawg


Joe Kleine
Corliss Williamson
Lee Mayberry
Sidney Moncrief
Marvin Delph

For the people who said they would put their Hog team up against anybody, I understand the sentiment...but just consider what some other schools could put on the floor.  LSU, for example:

Shaquille O'Neal
Pete Maravich
Bob Pettit
Chris Jackson

I don't care if you put Mrs. Doubtfire on the floor as the fifth starter, the first three are among the greatest players of all time, any league or any era, and Chris Jackson was one of the greatest scorers in college history.  Put in anyone you choose...Big Baby, anyone...and that is going to be a hard lineup to beat.
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k.c.hawg


F: Corliss W.
F: Todd Day
G: Sidney Moncrief
G: Marvin Delph
H/L Post: Scott Hastings or Joe Klein.

Could interchange Alvin R. or Darrell W. for Delph.

That leaves out 1st team All American Ron Brewer, Lee Mayberry, Oliver Miller, Scotty Thurman, Joe Johnson, US Reed, and 3 or 4 others.



Awful roster composition. You bypass a point guard (Lee Mayberry 729 Assists to 232 turnovers 3.2:1) and a career 42.4% 3 pt shooter that could actually get the ball to guys that played in the post Corliss and Joe and Sidney to put in 2 guards that were handles challenged
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EastexHawg


Delph was probably the best three pointer shooter to never make a three.

He shot 53% from the field for his Hog career despite shooting from Al Dillard range so much of the time.
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hawkhawg


All time Transfer Team

G Byron Irvin
G Rotnei Clark
F Chris Jeffries
F Jacorey Williams
C Jason Jennings

Bench
Marlon Towns G
Glendon Alexander G
Jason Gilbert G
JJ Sullinger G
Julysses Nobles G
Hunter Mickelson F
NIck Babb G
Jimmy Witt G
CJ Jones G
Darious Hall F
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 05:45:11 pm by hawkhawg »
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niels_boar

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Best, most complementary team, not necessarily the best five players, with today's rules:

Anchors - PF Corliss Williamson, SG Sidney Moncrief.  Because they have to be on any Arkansas team if they are eligible.  What they bring: post scoring, lane scoring, FTs, rebounding, and perimeter defense out the kazoo.

PG: Needs - ballhandling and arc shooting to complement Moncrief.  Obvious choice is Lee Mayberry. Regrets - I really, really want to pair Moncrief with Robertson to watch the opposing guards cry like little girls trying to get the ball past halfcourt. Out-of-the-box choice: Kareem Reid - would provide great ball pressure on D with Moncrief and best disher in school history.

C: Needs - rim protection on defense and high post skills on O to pair with Corliss.  I have to go with Oliver Miller. He's the best combination of those two skills.  Regrets - hate leaving Portis and Kleine off the starting lineup.  Out-of-the-box-choice:  Scott Hastings - who needs rim protection with Hastings providing spacing for Corliss on O.

SF: Needs: still short on arc shooting to space floor.  Todd Day is the best all-round player to put here. Regrets: Scotty is the best, most clutch shooter in school history. Out-of-the box choice: Coty Clarke - best defender and rebounder that could be put here and an underrated shooter.
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Kevin McPherson

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Best, most complementary team, not necessarily the best five players, with today's rules:

Anchors - PF Corliss Williamson, SG Sidney Moncrief.  Because they have to be on any Arkansas team if they are eligible.  What they bring: post scoring, lane scoring, FTs, rebounding, and perimeter defense out the kazoo.

PG: Needs - ballhandling and arc shooting to complement Moncrief.  Obvious choice is Lee Mayberry. Regrets - I really, really want to pair Moncrief with Robertson to watch the opposing guards cry like little girls trying to get the ball past halfcourt. Out-of-the-box choice: Kareem Reid - would provide great ball pressure on D with Moncrief and best disher in school history.

C: Needs - rim protection on defense and high post skills on O to pair with Corliss.  I have to go with Oliver Miller. He's the best combination of those two skills.  Regrets - hate leaving Portis and Kleine off the starting lineup.  Out-of-the-box-choice:  Scott Hastings - who needs rim protection with Hastings providing spacing for Corliss on O.

SF: Needs: still short on arc shooting to space floor.  Todd Day is the best all-round player to put here. Regrets: Scotty is the best, most clutch shooter in school history. Out-of-the box choice: Coty Clarke - best defender and rebounder that could be put here and an underrated shooter.

We almost picked the same 5, except I went with Scotty, barely, over Day in my starting 5 ... it wasn't just clutch shooting with Scotty T, he was a killer in big games on many levels ... also pained me to leave Ron Brewer, Alvin Robertson, and Joe Kleine out of the starting lineup.
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PonderinHog

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I would like to have seen Big O and Patrick Ewing, in their respective college primes, go at it.

Anybody remember February 3, 1985?
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Boog41


Best, most complementary team, not necessarily the best five players, with today's rules:

Anchors - PF Corliss Williamson, SG Sidney Moncrief.  Because they have to be on any Arkansas team if they are eligible.  What they bring: post scoring, lane scoring, FTs, rebounding, and perimeter defense out the kazoo.

PG: Needs - ballhandling and arc shooting to complement Moncrief.  Obvious choice is Lee Mayberry. Regrets - I really, really want to pair Moncrief with Robertson to watch the opposing guards cry like little girls trying to get the ball past halfcourt. Out-of-the-box choice: Kareem Reid - would provide great ball pressure on D with Moncrief and best disher in school history.

C: Needs - rim protection on defense and high post skills on O to pair with Corliss.  I have to go with Oliver Miller. He's the best combination of those two skills.  Regrets - hate leaving Portis and Kleine off the starting lineup.  Out-of-the-box-choice:  Scott Hastings - who needs rim protection with Hastings providing spacing for Corliss on O.

SF: Needs: still short on arc shooting to space floor.  Todd Day is the best all-round player to put here. Regrets: Scotty is the best, most clutch shooter in school history. Out-of-the box choice: Coty Clarke - best defender and rebounder that could be put here and an underrated shooter.

Good post and l see why you picked the players you did. I do think you made a mistake with Mayberry over Ron Brewer Sr at point. In addition to being All American, Brewer is #6 is career field goal %. Mayberry is not top 10. Brewer is also #9 in scoring average, Mayberry not listed.

I can’t understand anyone picking Mayberry over Brewer. The numbers don’t back it up.

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Kevin McPherson

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I would like to have seen Big O and Patrick Ewing, in their respective college primes, go at it.

Anybody remember February 3, 1985?

Yeah, that was when Ewing and Georgetown beat the Hogs down, holding them to 30-something points on 30-something percent shooting (both from the field and FT line) ... I was 16, on a flight from D.C. to Little Rock while that game was being played in D.C. ... I think the Hoyas were ranked in the top 3.
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PonderinHog

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Yeah, that was when Ewing and Georgetown beat the Hogs down, holding them to 30-something points on 30-something percent shooting (both from the field and FT line) ... I was 16, on a flight from D.C. to Little Rock while that game was being played in D.C. ... I think the Hoyas were ranked in the top 3.
Joe had three points.  Charles Balentine had 22!  56-39, final score.   :-[
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PonderinHog

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Yeah, that was when Ewing and Georgetown beat the Hogs down, holding them to 30-something points on 30-something percent shooting (both from the field and FT line) ... I was 16, on a flight from D.C. to Little Rock while that game was being played in D.C. ... I think the Hoyas were ranked in the top 3.
I loved Joe, BTW.  Never forget when we finally beat an ACC team.
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pigroots


Good post and l see why you picked the players you did. I do think you made a mistake with Mayberry over Ron Brewer Sr at point. In addition to being All American, Brewer is #6 is career field goal %. Mayberry is not top 10. Brewer is also #9 in scoring average, Mayberry not listed.

I can’t understand anyone picking Mayberry over Brewer. The numbers don’t back it up.


Those were my top 2 with Brewer the starter. Scotty hit the biggest shot in Hog history but Brewer was the most clutch player in Hog history. That said Moncrief was also so clutch
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Hogmaestro

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Top 5:
Brewer
Moncrief
Corliss
Portis
Day

Subs:
Mayberry (Brewer and Mayberry are a coin flip...they play equal minutes)
Joe Kleine
The Big O
Alvin Robertson
Darrell Walker
Joe Johnson (the best pro next to Sidney....but left before he was the college player the above were IMO)
Delph
Hastings
Corey Beck
Scotty Thurman

I know that's 15
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PonderinHog

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Those were my top 2 with Brewer the starter. Scotty hit the biggest shot in Hog history but Brewer was the most clutch player in Hog history. That said Moncrief was also so clutch
There are a few historical shots that you can still see many years later.  Brewer at the top of the key against Notre Dame and Thurman's three from the wing are two of the biggest.
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Boog41


There are a few historical shots that you can still see many years later.  Brewer at the top of the key against Notre Dame and Thurman's three from the wing are two of the biggest.

Agree completely. I’d add Sir Sid’s tomahawk dunk against Texas, Charles Balentine’s shot to beat Jordan and the Tar Heels and Qualls dunk to beat Kentucky.

Memorable shots could  be its own thread.
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PonderinHog

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Agree completely. I’d add Sir Sid’s tomahawk dunk against Texas, Charles Balentine’s shot to beat Jordan and the Tar Heels and Qualls dunk to beat Kentucky.

Memorable shots could  be its own thread.
And Reed's half court heave!
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Boog41


And Reed's half court heave!

Duh, yeah, how’d I forget that one!
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niels_boar

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Good post and l see why you picked the players you did. I do think you made a mistake with Mayberry over Ron Brewer Sr at point. In addition to being All American, Brewer is #6 is career field goal %. Mayberry is not top 10. Brewer is also #9 in scoring average, Mayberry not listed.

I can’t understand anyone picking Mayberry over Brewer. The numbers don’t back it up.

There was a reason that team was called the Triplets.  Brewer, great player, had strengths that overlapped Moncrief. Mayberry was a much better pure shooter and ballhandler than Brewer.  Mayberry shot 50% from the arc as a soph.  His EFg% for his career actually matches Brewer because over a third of his shots were from the arc.  A comparison of their straight FG percentages is an apples to oranges comparison, and Brewer was never an arc shooter.  See his NBA stats. 

The Triplets weren't a great ballhandling team.  It was their fatal flaw in terms of hanging a banner. Brewer had a 1:1 A/TO ratio as a senior, as opposed to 3:1 for Mayberry for his career.  With Sid, Day, and Corliss as the prime scoring options I think it is a better team, certainly on offense, with Mayberry distributing at point and providing spacing with his jump shot.  Sid is taking the ball to the basket.  Miller is hanging around the high post.  Corliss is in the low post.  I don't need another slashing scorer on this unit.  I feel strongly that Mayberry makes this a more complete team.  Remember I wasn't going after the five best individual players, though Mayberry was an All-American as well.  I think he has a case for best five in school history as well.  He had no weaknesses as a PG.

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Boog41


There was a reason that team was called the Triplets.  Brewer, great player, had strengths that overlapped Moncrief. Mayberry was a much better pure shooter and ballhandler than Brewer.  Mayberry shot 50% from the arc as a soph.  His EFg% for his career actually matches Brewer because over a third of his shots were from the arc.  A comparison of their straight FG percentages is an apples to oranges comparison, and Brewer was never an arc shooter.  See his NBA stats. 

The Triplets weren't a great ballhandling team.  It was their fatal flaw in terms of hanging a banner. Brewer had a 1:1 A/TO ratio as a senior, as opposed to 3:1 for Mayberry for his career.  With Sid, Day, and Corliss as the prime scoring options I think it is a better team, certainly on offense, with Mayberry distributing at point and providing spacing with his jump shot.  Sid is taking the ball to the basket.  Miller is hanging around the high post.  Corliss is in the low post.  I don't need another slashing scorer on this unit.  I feel strongly that Mayberry makes this a more complete team.  Remember I wasn't going after the five best individual players, though Mayberry was an All-American as well.  I think he has a case for best five in school history as well.  He had no weaknesses as a PG.



You make a good argument for Mayberry. I see where you are coming from now.
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hawgball40


Lee Mayberry
Sidney Moncrief
Joe Johnson
Corliss Williamson
Daniel Gafford

a masterful scoring pg who can pass with 4 amazing weapons.

Mayberry pass to Williamson, Williamson gets doubled, he can kick it to joe in the corner or dump it to dan for an easy slam. Sid just gives you great defense and offense and corliss just gives an excellent scoring pf to pair next to the raw gafford. Joe can get you a bucket when you need it. Corliss can too. As can super sid. The pick and roll and pick and pop would be deadly with mayberry and gafford. if you don't eat up may berry on the screen then he will bury a 3, if you and the help defense is too slow to rotate, its an easy poster for Dan. What do you guys think?
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ErieHog

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We almost picked the same 5, except I went with Scotty, barely, over Day in my starting 5 ... it wasn't just clutch shooting with Scotty T, he was a killer in big games on many levels ... also pained me to leave Ron Brewer, Alvin Robertson, and Joe Kleine out of the starting lineup.

Day is arguably one of the three best defenders in the history of our program.   I love Scotty, but we hid him a lot on that end of the floor.

Weird stat of the day- Todd Day remains among 11th in career blocked shots at Arkansas, despite playing a ball-handling/ball defender role.

Gafford should knock him down to 12 next year, but that says a ton about what kind of defender he is;   Day would also have obliterated the career steal record at Arkansas, save for his teammate Mayberry also shattering it at the same time.  No player in the intervening years has come within 20 of Day.

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hawkhawg


Day is arguably one of the three best defenders in the history of our program.   I love Scotty, but we hid him a lot on that end of the floor.

Weird stat of the day- Todd Day remains among 11th in career blocked shots at Arkansas, despite playing a ball-handling/ball defender role.

Gafford should knock him down to 12 next year, but that says a ton about what kind of defender he is;   Day would also have obliterated the career steal record at Arkansas, save for his teammate Mayberry also shattering it at the same time.  No player in the intervening years has come within 20 of Day.



I think you have to put Sid, Day and Corliss on this team.  The rest you can argue but to me those three are no doubt. 
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secfan30


Oliver Miller doesn’t get the credit for his amazing talent. The way he could throw an outlet Pass is unmatched.
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secfan30


I think you have to put Sid, Day and Corliss on this team.  The rest you can argue but to me those three are no doubt.

This 100%
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ErieHog

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Oliver Miller doesn’t get the credit for his amazing talent. The way he could throw an outlet Pass is unmatched.

Miller's easily the best passing big we've ever had.  And his defense can be underrated.   And the man knew how to play head games on the basketball court.

Ask Shaq, who never won against an Arkansas team with O.    He even held Shaq scoreless for the last 11 minutes plus of a tight game.
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hogsanity

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Any Hog all time starting 5 without Todd Day is immediately void. He is the all time leading scorer in program history, was a really good defender, could rebound, and was a better passer than many remember.
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k.c.hawg


I think you have to put Sid, Day and Corliss on this team.  The rest you can argue but to me those three are no doubt. 

This. I love Joe Johnson's game but there is zero justification for putting him in a line up over Todd Day on accomplishment at Arkansas.
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A Hogwork Orange


Looks like I agree with hawgball40 a little on this one, but Day instead of Mayberry. I think this would be a sick lineup.

G-Todd Day
G-Joe Johnson
G-Sidney Moncrief
F- Corliss Williamson
F- Daniel Gafford
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hawg66

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I remember games when Day would hawk the ball defensively. He’d chase passes from one side of the court to the other. When you saw him go into that mode you knew it was only a matter of time until he came away with the steal. Not sure if anyone has mentioned Arlyn Bowers. The best on ball defender Nolan ever had.
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k.c.hawg


Another thing I cannot even come close to doing is having Daniel Gafford "anywhere near" an all time Arkansas starting 5. It is ridiculous and has zero merit. Oliver Miller, Joe klein, Dean Tolson???
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steveaustin69

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PG - Anton Beard
SG - Rickey Scott
SF - Glen Bryant
PF - Michael Sanchez
C - Vincent Hunter
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k.c.hawg


PG - Anton Beard
SG - Rickey Scott
SF - Glen Bryant
PF - Michael Sanchez
C - Vincent Hunter

How in the hell could you put Old man Rivers in this group!!?? Maybe you meant his 24th cousin Rickey!!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 01:43:37 pm by k.c.hawg »
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Busta_Nutt


PG - Anton Beard
SG - Rickey Scott
SF - Glen Bryant
PF - Michael Sanchez
C - Vincent Hunter

Throw Nick Mason in there and you've got yourself a competitive squad.
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ErieHog

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Any Hog all time starting 5 without Todd Day is immediately void. He is the all time leading scorer in program history, was a really good defender, could rebound, and was a better passer than many remember.

Day remains 8th in program history in Assists--  more than 25 years after his last game as a Hog.
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ArkansasI


Very difficult to assemble 13 for an all-time Razorback basketball team, and near impossible to name a starting 5.  A lot of good conversation in this thread.  My starting 5, based upon their play as a Razorback:

Point Guard - Alvin Robertson*
The 2 - Sidney Moncrief
Wing - Scotty Thurman
The 4 - Corliss Williamson
Center - Oliver Miller

Bench:
Guards - Lee Mayberry, Ron Brewer, Sr. and Darrell Walker
Wings - Todd Day, Joe Johnson** and Dean Tolson (Gotta go with one legend I didn't see play)
Posts - Joe Kleine, Bobby Portis

Eat 'em up boys.  This is a physical 5.  Punishing...  Robertson and Moncrief would wreck havoc defensively.  These guards crash the boards, too.

I put Scotty in ahead of Todd because he played in back to back national championship games, winning one.  As a freshman, Scotty carried the Hogs while Corliss got healthy.  I watched Scotty as a freshman in Columbia, Missouri, dismantle the Tigers by himself.  I couldn't believe it...  Todd played with a lot of talented players, but he did not show up as well at tournament time.  Who knows where Scotty's stats would have ended up had he played his senior year?  I'm not going to remove him from the starting 5 for that.

Special Note:  Not nearly enough minutes to go around for these guys.

*People may criticize Alvin as a starter because he was only a juco guy - two year Hog.  The teams he played on were very competitive - nationally ranked, and won SWC tournaments.  Alvin made the U.S. Olympic team (with Joe Kleine) as an amateur Razorback.  This would seem to indicate he was among the top 2-4 collegiate guards in the country at the time.  Mayberry is the popular choice - I loved the guy, too.  I took Alvin because he's clearly meaner... :)

** Joe played on a bad team and he was here too short a time to go further up.  Plus, he made everything look too easy - no way he should start!  :)

Notes:  Really hard to leave countless others off the team.  Beck, McDaniel, Hastings, Delph, Brewer, Jr., Gafford (he may earn a roster spot, but not yet)... too many great players to list.  We've got a lot to appreciate.

What this thread emphasizes is the incredible tradition we have that is Razorback Basketball.  It is high time we get it back.
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bphi11ips

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Delph was probably the best three pointer shooter to never make a three.

I kept reading and scrolling down going “Where is Marvin Delph?”  You can’t go two deep without Delph. He would have led the Razorbacks in scoring had the three point line been in play during his career. Delph had the best jumper from the deep corner maybe ever. He was 6’4” and jumped center - and almost never lost a tip.
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