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Author Topic: Gafford isn't ready  (Read 5234 times)

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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Gafford isn't ready
« on: March 10, 2018, 05:28:07 pm »

First I'll dispute my statementó
-I admit it's coming from a place of "homerism."
-He doesn't need to stay in college another year to develop his body, shooting, defense/play against other big men--an NBA D-league can take that on.
-The $$ is better in the pros.
If those points are in the counter-argument, I have nothing to say.

The real reason I say he isn't ready, he just doesn't pass the eye test. We can all say "he's gone" after his windmill dunk yesterday. But is he always dominant? No. Does he have a complete game yet? No. Look, there are clear first-rounders that still don't make the big squad after they're drafted. How do NBA teams look at "projects"? (I don't know the answer to that.) A guy with his frame is NOT going to become a type of center who battles guys with big-time size--I doubt he's going to grow and inch or two and put on 50 plus pounds. For Gafford to succeed, he has to find his place, his game.

OK, fire away.
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alohawg

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 05:35:40 pm »

Another year would make him a lot more money and provide us fans a lot more fond memories. Yeah, I agree, he's not really ready.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2018, 05:38:36 pm »

If heís a no doubt first rounder, he needs to go.
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2018, 05:45:03 pm »

Another year would make him a lot more money and provide us fans a lot more fond memories. Yeah, I agree, he's not really ready.

Maybe the decision for him (or anyone in that position) is money. He can come out this year and be drafted in round "X" and can get "$X." Fill in the blanks. But what if next year he was first-team All-SEC, or better yet "Player of the Year"? What would the difference be in those two years?
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2018, 05:45:48 pm »

Willie Caulie-Stein comes to mind. He was never the best player on his team, but he got drafted and has been developed into a solid contributor. I think it would serve him well to come back for one more year and develop a few more moves and refine his shot, but I also think that some NBA coaches would prefer raw talent to mold.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2018, 05:47:07 pm »

Possibly staying could make him more money.  Itís always possible to that if he leaves early he would be getting to a second contract earlier which is where the real money is made in the NBA.

I hope he stays, but a lot of players are picked on potential in the NBA.
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elksnort

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2018, 05:48:11 pm »

If heís a no doubt first rounder, he needs to go.
When did you start watching basketball?
I am serious, not trying to argue.

The NBA is a crappy product. In part taking guys who ate not polished yet.
Corliss stayed 3 years and was much more dominant than Gafford. Anyway, times have changed.
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phadedhawg

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2018, 05:51:03 pm »

First let me say, I have actively avoided watching much NBA since they stole the Sonics from us up here in Seattle so I don't have a lot of NBA viewing to compare Gafford to.  He isn't as dominate as he will need to be.  He needs more time in the weight room or just maturity to fill his body out. 

Still, he's got a lot of hype going right now.  It would be hard for anyone to turn down the chance.  I think he's probably gone.
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MountieDawg

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2018, 05:54:33 pm »

Another year would make him a lot more money and provide us fans a lot more fond memories. Yeah, I agree, he's not really ready.

Not really... The contracts for the 1st 3 years are capped.... Your real money starts in the NBA in year four.  His body will have gotten bigger and stronger and his shooting will have gotten better.  Fining a player of his size with his athletic ability is what the NBA dreams about.  If he would have had the same supporting cast Anthony Davis did in college he may have out performed him.  It will be his decision on how he wants to handle it but coming back to a team losing all those seniors will not help in his spotlight time.  You cannon teach size and athletic ability... He has both. 
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 05:56:38 pm »

Ready has NOTHING to do with it any more. Just leave that out of your thought process. What it boils down to is what the scouts think of his potential, and he has made a steady climb up the draft status on most mock drafts. Right now mid round selection that could easily bounce to lottery if he has a big NCAA tourney. If that be the case, he is likely gone...........
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hoglady

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 05:57:32 pm »

I'm just not seeing all this great development by the NBA.
It was a better product when it was filled with guys who stayed in college for 3 to 4 years.
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elksnort

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2018, 05:58:51 pm »

Ready has NOTHING to do with it any more. Just leave that out of your thought process. What it boils down to is what the scouts think of his potential, and he has made a steady climb up the draft status on most mock drafts. Right now mid round selection that could easily bounce to lottery if he has a big NCAA tourney. If that be the case, he is likely gone...........
Good advise for guys like me.
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TNhawgfan

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2018, 06:01:11 pm »

I'm just not seeing all this great development by the NBA.
It was a better product when it was filled with guys who stayed in college for 3 to 4 years.
I enjoyed the NBA a lot better when centers liked to bang in the post and point guards looked to distribute first. Now each team starts 5 guys looking to shoot 3s
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elksnort

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2018, 06:03:32 pm »

I enjoyed the NBA a lot better when centers liked to bang in the post and point guards looked to distribute first. Now each team starts 5 guys looking to shoot 3s
Agree. The game is a bunch of individuals these days.
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hoglady

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2018, 06:08:09 pm »

I enjoyed the NBA a lot better when centers liked to bang in the post and point guards looked to distribute first. Now each team starts 5 guys looking to shoot 3s

Yes - give me Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls, the Jazz with Malone / Stockton and the Detroit Bad Boys any day over what the NBA is now.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2018, 06:09:49 pm »

I never realized how many great NBA scouts were on here. No wait, never mind, there isnít.
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elksnort

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2018, 06:10:31 pm »

Yes - give me Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls, the Jazz with Malone / Stockton and the Detroit Bad Boys any day over what the NBA is now.
Absolutely.
Even the Pistons of the early 2000s.
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elksnort

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2018, 06:11:43 pm »

I never realized how many great NBA scouts were on here. No wait, never mind, there isnít.
I never knew this was a message board.
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hoglady

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2018, 06:17:03 pm »

Absolutely.
Even the Pistons of the early 2000s.

I liked to watch the Lakers with Shaq, Kobe and Derek Fisher. That was a great well balanced team. Too bad Shaq and Kobe couldn't get along.
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texas tush hog

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2018, 06:18:59 pm »

First let me say, I have actively avoided watching much NBA since they stole the Sonics from us up here in Seattle so I don't have a lot of NBA viewing to compare Gafford to.  He isn't as dominate as he will need to be.  He needs more time in the weight room or just maturity to fill his body out. 

Still, he's got a lot of hype going right now.  It would be hard for anyone to turn down the chance.  I think he's probably gone.



He may be. But he will definitely be more of a man at 19 than 17. Just think about yourself at that age. Corliss was a beast as a freshman but still a boy at 18. At 20 years old he was a mature man and much more ready than he was at 18 as a freshman. Gafford will be 20 in October and then his body will be more of a man than a boy. My dad used to tell me my balls hadn't dropped by then. Let's hope he doesn't rush it. But millions are calling.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2018, 06:21:56 pm »

And when millions are calling, you pick up the phone.
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texas tush hog

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2018, 06:25:41 pm »

Ready has NOTHING to do with it any more. Just leave that out of your thought process. What it boils down to is what the scouts think of his potential, and he has made a steady climb up the draft status on most mock drafts. Right now mid round selection that could easily bounce to lottery if he has a big NCAA tourney. If that be the case, he is likely gone...........



If he is 15 or above (lottery), yes, but 17 or below he would be better served to wait, but that is for he and his parents to weigh. I think he is auditioning with these windmill dunks. But he may be just enjoying himself.
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raz1965

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2018, 06:26:12 pm »

I watched the NBA back in the day when we had 4 or 5 tv channels to chose from. I liked to watch Larry bird, kareem, Moses, an many more,  not a team game game any longer an don't care to watch it. I hope Gafford stays another yr but if not I wish him great sucess.
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2018, 06:28:17 pm »



If he is 15 or above (lottery), yes, but 17 or below he would be better served to wait, but that is for he and his parents to weigh. I think he is auditioning with these windmill dunks. But he may be just enjoying himself.
I agree. If he doesn't play himself into the lottery position then coming back to try and get himself up into possibly top 5 would be an option for him to consider.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2018, 06:31:24 pm »

Going just because you are a first round pick really isnít wise. Who drafts you has as much or more to do with individual success.

Portis comes to mind. He was drafted as more of a best available guy rather than a player targeted to become a core member of the Bulls future. As such, the Bulls have never really invested in Portis in terms of playing time and opportunity.

If your ceiling is as a mid first rounder then you go for the check first chance you get.

If you can play another year of college ball with a realistic chance to improve your draft slotting, then you are committing career suicide going in the draft just because you can.
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texas tush hog

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 06:33:23 pm »

I watched the NBA back in the day when we had 4 or 5 tv channels to chose from. I liked to watch Larry bird, kareem, Moses, an many more,  not a team game game any longer an don't care to watch it. I hope Gafford stays another yr but if not I wish him great sucess.


He is enjoyable to watch, more than any other Hog I have ever had the privilege of watching, that's why I hope he returns, but will root for him whatever he does. He and his parents are class acts.
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RaisinHog

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 06:36:09 pm »

I think the WCS comparison is pretty good ... Mostly trash baskets and rebounds if he could develop his mid range and post moves he would be a beast
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 06:37:13 pm »

Going just because you are a first round pick really isnít wise. Who drafts you has as much or more to do with individual success.

Portis comes to mind. He was drafted as more of a best available guy rather than a player targeted to become a core member of the Bulls future. As such, the Bulls have never really invested in Portis in terms of playing time and opportunity.

If your ceiling is as a mid first rounder then you go for the check first chance you get.

If you can play another year of college ball with a realistic chance to improve your draft slotting, then you are committing career suicide going in the draft just because you can.
You make valid points, but looks like it's going to work out for Portis. There's risk either way, you could have a bad sophomore season and fall, get injured, or just give them another season to pick apart your game. There's reward possible, but there is also risk involved.
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alohawg

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 06:40:53 pm »

I agree. If he doesn't play himself into the lottery position then coming back to try and get himself up into possibly top 5 would be an option for him to consider.

#5 pick would probably make double what a #15 pick would. He could look at it as making just as much next year in college playing and honing his skills as he would by either not playing much in the NBA or playing in the developmental league.
5mil this yr vs 10mil the next, roughly the same amount after two years. Plus he'd play more as a rookie.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2018, 06:42:37 pm »

You make valid points, but looks like it's going to work out for Portis. There's risk either way, you could have a bad sophomore season and fall, get injured, or just give them another season to pick apart your game. There's reward possible, but there is also risk involved.

Agree completely.

Just trying to point out a few reasons why it isnít a no brainer that a player should go the first chance they get.
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PintailKiller

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 06:44:03 pm »

Not really... The contracts for the 1st 3 years are capped.... Your real money starts in the NBA in year four.  His body will have gotten bigger and stronger and his shooting will have gotten better.  Fining a player of his size with his athletic ability is what the NBA dreams about.  If he would have had the same supporting cast Anthony Davis did in college he may have out performed him.  It will be his decision on how he wants to handle it but coming back to a team losing all those seniors will not help in his spotlight time.  You cannon teach size and athletic ability... He has both. 

Not really true.  Being drafted higher - say top 10 = $10M+ where as say 20 = $3M over 3 years.  Correct about the 2nd contract getting you more money - but you got to get the 2nd contract first.
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golfinpig

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 06:55:19 pm »

As the saying goes, you canít teach 6í11Ē but like tv commenter Sunvold said, he has zero post moves and is not strong setting his position on the blocks. To say that he is one of the top 26 draft eligible players in the world is probably a stretch.
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razorback1829

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2018, 07:04:33 pm »

As the saying goes, you canít teach 6í11Ē but like tv commenter Sunvold said, he has zero post moves and is not strong setting his position on the blocks. To say that he is one of the top 26 draft eligible players in the world is probably a stretch.

No... its not really a stretch at all.. all about potential.
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2018, 07:27:24 pm »

As the saying goes, you canít teach 6í11Ē but like tv commenter Sunvold said, he has zero post moves and is not strong setting his position on the blocks. To say that he is one of the top 26 draft eligible players in the world is probably a stretch.
I guess you don't look at any of the mock drafts from some of the guys who are renowned for knowing what they are talking about. He shows up mid 1st round in about everyone of them. Doesn't matter what some commentator says, the scouts like what they are seeing.
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Hogz87

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2018, 07:31:10 pm »

I watched the NBA back in the day when we had 4 or 5 tv channels to chose from. I liked to watch Larry bird, kareem, Moses, an many more,  not a team game game any longer an don't care to watch it. I hope Gafford stays another yr but if not I wish him great sucess.
The best teams in the NBA today, and over the last 10-20 years (depending on how far back you want to go) generally incorporate great ball movement in their offense.  The Spurs, any team LeBron's been on, now the Warriors and the Celtics are great ball movement teams. 

I did enjoy the NBA more back in the 90s but the great teams of the last 10, 15, 20 years have also played great team ball on top of having 2-3 good to great players who still put up their stats.  I think what everyone in this thread really wants to complain about with today's NBA is all of the 3P shooting, which is fine.  However, this is the analytical age of sports space-and-pace is a "better" way to reach optimum scoring/offensive efficiency.  NBA teams have learned in recent years that 12-18 foot jumpers are very inefficient shots and that shot is darn near extinct now in the NBA.  33% from three = 50% from two and as more crops of players come through who are semi-adept 3P shooters, it's not a surprise that teams are shooting threes at an absurd rate today.

Again, I understand why some don't like it, but there are very sound, logical reasons why the NBA has evolved into what it is today and it doesn't make it bad basketball.
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2018, 08:40:28 pm »

The best teams in the NBA today, and over the last 10-20 years (depending on how far back you want to go) generally incorporate great ball movement in their offense.  The Spurs, any team LeBron's been on, now the Warriors and the Celtics are great ball movement teams. 

I did enjoy the NBA more back in the 90s but the great teams of the last 10, 15, 20 years have also played great team ball on top of having 2-3 good to great players who still put up their stats.  I think what everyone in this thread really wants to complain about with today's NBA is all of the 3P shooting, which is fine.  However, this is the analytical age of sports space-and-pace is a "better" way to reach optimum scoring/offensive efficiency.  NBA teams have learned in recent years that 12-18 foot jumpers are very inefficient shots and that shot is darn near extinct now in the NBA.  33% from three = 50% from two and as more crops of players come through who are semi-adept 3P shooters, it's not a surprise that teams are shooting threes at an absurd rate today.

Again, I understand why some don't like it, but there are very sound, logical reasons why the NBA has evolved into what it is today and it doesn't make it bad basketball.
Good post. I think what others are also missing is back in those days there wasn't free agency or luxury taxes like in today's game. You could put together a unit and have them grow together over the years. Not possible today, you can only keep about 3 guys who are very good, after that free agency will likely suck your other good players away as the team can't afford to keep them. Much tougher today for a GM to juggle all that and keep a squad together. Just think what OKC would be today if they had been able to keep all those pieces together they had at one time, but they couldn't as James Harden was the first to leave because of free agency.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2018, 08:45:20 pm »

I agree that Gafford should come back for one more years. But his talent is what the NBA will have to look at and they don't care one bit about college basketball.

If they are going to throw a lot of money at him then he should go IMO. I know if he was my son and offered millions I would want him to go. Hope like crazy he stays but whatever he does he's a joy to watch.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2018, 08:46:22 pm »

I guess you don't look at any of the mock drafts from some of the guys who are renowned for knowing what they are talking about. He shows up mid 1st round in about everyone of them. Doesn't matter what some commentator says, the scouts like what they are seeing.

I don't watch the NBA at all. What kind of money do they get for middle of first round? Compared to being in the Lottery?
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2018, 08:47:56 pm »

I don't watch the NBA at all. What kind of money do they get for middle of first round? Compared to being in the Lottery?
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2018, 08:50:03 pm »

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale

Oh snap I'd be gone ASAP.. Get that money it's more than enough if your smart to live large forever.

At 14th he makes 7 million in 3 years. After seeing that he should go he has to go. Unless his family is wealthy and just insist on an education.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2018, 08:52:43 pm »

When did you start watching basketball?
I am serious, not trying to argue.

The NBA is a crappy product. In part taking guys who ate not polished yet.
Corliss stayed 3 years and was much more dominant than Gafford. Anyway, times have changed.

WTH?  Youíd turn down millions to play another year in college? Yeah sure.
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rude1

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2018, 08:53:37 pm »

Oh snap I'd be gone ASAP.. Get that money it's more than enough if your smart to live large forever.

At 14th he makes 7 million in 3 years. After seeing that he should go he has to go. Unless his family is wealthy and just insist on an education.
Lol, this is why many are saying he is GONE. Hard to turn down that kind of money.
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Hogz87

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2018, 08:54:03 pm »

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale
So, if Gafford is even the 20th pick (most mocks I've seen have him in the 15-20 range), he stands to make $5.5M as a 20-22 year old kid while dedicating every hour of his "work" day to developing his craft.  The 15th pick is guaranteed to make $7M.

Hard to pass that up.  How many of us, after our freshman year in college, would tell a company "no" if they came to us with a 3-year, $5M-$7M contract ready to be signed?
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2018, 08:55:18 pm »

So, if Gafford is even the 20th pick (most mocks I've seen have him in the 15-20 range), he stands to make $5.5M as a 20-22 year old kid while dedicating every hour of his "work" day to developing his craft.

Hard to pass that up.

IMHO it would be a mistake to pass that money up.
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Hogz87

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2018, 08:59:31 pm »

IMHO it would be a mistake to pass that money up.
I agree.  People also lose sight of all the other factors that lead to a player getting to a second contract which is how professional athletes truly can be set for life if they manage their money properly.  Gafford and 95% other first round picks, if they have the talent and work ethic, are going to be second contract players in the NBA if you only consider talent and ability.  However, things like health and opportunity also play a big role in that. 

Staying an extra year if you're already a guaranteed first round pick really won't potentially earn a player more money in the long run.  They only time we can ever say that is with the aid of hindsight.
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zebradynasty

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2018, 08:59:48 pm »

IF he is smart he will wait until after the pre draft camps then hire an agent. See how he competes against the better big men in that are coming out. I agree he is not a NBA starter as rookie but he has some raw physical skills that could really develop into a solid NBA player.
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daprospecta

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2018, 09:05:29 pm »

Jarrett Allen went 22nd last year. I dare someone tell me he is better than Gafford at this point last year. I DARE YOU!  I hope he does not come back.  He chose Arkansas and proved his worth to scouts.  Go make that money Big Dan!
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thebignasty

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2018, 09:07:29 pm »

Another year would make him a lot more money and provide us fans a lot more fond memories. Yeah, I agree, he's not really ready.

Its not, though.  All one more year of college does is get rid of one year he could be earning money.  He's a solid first rounder, nothing that happens in another year of college is going to change his stock much, unless he gets hurt and misses out entirely.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2018, 09:14:33 pm »

IF he is smart he will wait until after the pre draft camps then hire an agent. See how he competes against the better big men in that are coming out. I agree he is not a NBA starter as rookie but he has some raw physical skills that could really develop into a solid NBA player.

Agree.

In my assessment, Gafford isn't going to the NBA in 2018.  He will be back.  98 1/2% probability.  I think Daniel is smart enough himself to know he needs another year in college to fill out into big boy shoes, and he will benefit financially by it in the long haul.  He is still a little raw. 

Daniel needs to develop a better turn around jumper in the lane to play the power forward position in the NBA, which is likely where he'll play at the next level unless he grows two more inches.  Still, even at center, he needs to work on that same shot.  He has all the athletic ability, he just needs a little more work on his offensive skill set. 

Daniel won't go near in the lottery this season, (because he isn't top 6 in the land)...  But next season if he is dominant he will probably go top 10 at worst.  I'd be surprised if he went in the first round if he came out now.  Late first round at best.
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Hogz87

Re: Gafford isn't ready
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2018, 09:20:05 pm »

In my assessment, Gafford isn't going to the NBA in 2018.  He will be back.  98 1/2% probability.  I think Daniel is smart enough himself to know he needs another year in college to fill out into big boy shoes, and he will benefit financially by it in the long haul.  He is still a little raw. 

Daniel needs to develop a better turn around jumper in the lane to play the power forward position in the NBA, which is likely where he'll play at the next level unless he grows two more inches.  Still, even at center, he needs to work on that same shot.  He has all the athletic ability, he just needs a little more work on his offensive skill set. 

Daniel won't go near in the lottery this season, (because he isn't top 6 in the land), but next season if he is dominant he will probably go top 10 at worst.  I'd be surprised if he went in the first round if he came out now.  Late first round at best.
Not sure what your evaluation resume includes or what your NBA connections you have that make you so sure that he's a late first round pick right now "at best", but other people who have years of a proven track record have Gafford going not only in the 1st round but have him going mid-1st round.
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