RB Sports Discussion > Monday Morning Quarterback

Secondary—and Kamren Curl moving to safety

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Mo_Better_Hogs:
Some of you called this a few months ago.

Sophomore-to-be Kamren Curl (6-2, 188 pounds) has moved from cornerback to strong safety, bumping senior Santos Ramirez (6-2, 195) over to free safety. Veteran Ryan Pulley (5-11, 199) and sophomore Chevin Calloway (5-10, 183) are running first-team at the corners.

Interesting move. I'd kinda like some more details. Maybe someone else can supply them. Also, it's great to have Pulley back. He was missed last year.

This was in the Arkansas Dem-Gazette yesterday.
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/mar/06/secondary-shake-finds-curl-now-strong-safety/

VirginiaHog:
I think it is a great move. He has the size and tenacity. Callaway had the quickness. The d backfield could be very salty if the front 7 can apply some pressure.

jgphillips3:
Curl was a good corner.  At his size and speed, he can be a great safety.

Hog Fan...DOH!:
Assuming Calloway can really play, it makes all the sense in the world.  And with K-rich as the 3rd CB?  You gotta like it.   

bennyl08:

--- Quote from: jgphillips3 on March 07, 2018, 01:11:32 pm ---Curl was a good corner.  At his size and speed, he can be a great safety.

--- End quote ---

Think that sums it up nicely.

RazrRila99:
Im wondering if this is more getting the best on the field at one time.  We have always heard it on Offense but very seldom on defense.  With the spread offenses you see in the game today you almost need 3 CB types at ALL times over 2 CBs and a safety who is "ok" on coverage. 

Bacon_Bitz:
My takeaway from the article is the lack of depth in the second string, lots of guys who haven’t played much

DeltaBoy:
Good moves so far .

hawginbigd1:
Curl was not fast enough to play CB, he got flat out run by, too many times. He will make an awesome safety IMO.

tusked:

I thought watching his HS highlight film he was more a natural safety than a CB.

Really while watching he reminded me of Atwater minus the big boom of a hitter.  Just his movement and reactions reminded me of SA.

I think he can be a great safety versus an adequate CB.

bennyl08:

--- Quote from: tusked on March 07, 2018, 02:31:33 pm ---I thought watching his HS highlight film he was more a natural safety than a CB.

Really while watching he reminded me of Atwater minus the big boom of a hitter.  Just his movement and reactions reminded me of SA.

I think he can be a great safety versus an adequate CB.

--- End quote ---

My thoughts were he reminded me somewhat of an Earl Thomas with the Seahawks. Guy who is an absolute ball hawk of a safety acting almost like a third CB out there, but a bit bigger and maybe not quite as quick as a pure corner. Granted, Thomas ran a 4.49 forty at the combine and then a 4.37 forty at his pro day... Don't think Curl is that gifted. However, I do think he can run in the 4.5's which is good enough for a CB but great for a S.

Tejano Jawg:
Curl got beat bad a few times last season, but the thing is…in that position you are super-visible. One bad move, looking the wrong direction or swiveling your hips the wrong way, and you are exposed!

But despite that, I really like that he hung in there and played tight. I also remember people throwing out the idea of him as a safety. I guess the over 6-ft guys make some sense at safety, while the under 6-ft can be at the corners. Not that these measureables are a priority.

What we all hoped since signing that big class of DBs with Curl, we have enough depth to do this. Look at some guys in different places.

flippinhogmana:

--- Quote from: jgphillips3 on March 07, 2018, 01:11:32 pm ---Curl was a good corner.  At his size and speed, he can be a great safety.

--- End quote ---

good, yes but not great.  I seem to remember him getting burned several times.  I think he might be better at safety, too.

Kevin:
he was a true freshman last year.  get off the kid's rear.  if they think he can contribute more at safety ok, but he can also play corner.

bennyl08:

--- Quote from: flippinhogmana on March 07, 2018, 02:39:35 pm ---good, yes but not great.  I seem to remember him getting burned several times.  I think he might be better at safety, too.

--- End quote ---

He was, but also remember he was a true freshmen.

For example, take the 2010 LSU game. Tyrann Matthieu was objectively faster than Joe Adams at least going by the combine. Adams improved his forty time at the pro day while Tyrann didn't compete at the pro day so hard to say if he would have improved or not.

Either way, Adams burned the honey badger on that beautiful fourth down call due to good route running, good playcalling, and the inexperience of the much younger Tyrann. He was expecting a short route to just get the first down and not a go route. Stutter step by Adams got him to bite and then it was game over.

For the record, Matthieu ran a 4.50 forty with a 1.56 10 yard split at the combine vs Adams running a 4.55 at the combine with a 1.62 10 yard split (Adams improved to 4.46 with a 1.51 split at the pro day, but the surface is a lot faster at arkansas than indy, so you can't truly compare one players combine to another's pro-day). Regardless, their speeds were at worst very similar to one another and weren't a factor in preventing the defender from getting burned.

bvillepig:
Curl did a good job at corner. The few times he was beat he took the bite on some short patterns that turned deep. Rookie mistakes. He recovered late and showed some good closing speed. Not great but good. I think he will do well at safety.

ricepig:

--- Quote from: bvillepig on March 07, 2018, 03:00:08 pm ---Curl did a good job at corner. The few times he was beat he took the bite on some short patterns that turned deep. Rookie mistakes. He recovered late and showed some good closing speed. Not great but good. I think he will do well at safety.

--- End quote ---

Chark just flat ran by him, but he did that to everyone to be honest.

flippinhogmana:

--- Quote from: bennyl08 on March 07, 2018, 02:50:33 pm ---He was, but also remember he was a true freshmen.

For example, take the 2010 LSU game. Tyrann Matthieu was objectively faster than Joe Adams at least going by the combine. Adams improved his forty time at the pro day while Tyrann didn't compete at the pro day so hard to say if he would have improved or not.

Either way, Adams burned the honey badger on that beautiful fourth down call due to good route running, good playcalling, and the inexperience of the much younger Tyrann. He was expecting a short route to just get the first down and not a go route. Stutter step by Adams got him to bite and then it was game over.

For the record, Matthieu ran a 4.50 forty with a 1.56 10 yard split at the combine vs Adams running a 4.55 at the combine with a 1.62 10 yard split (Adams improved to 4.46 with a 1.51 split at the pro day, but the surface is a lot faster at arkansas than indy, so you can't truly compare one players combine to another's pro-day). Regardless, their speeds were at worst very similar to one another and weren't a factor in preventing the defender from getting burned.

--- End quote ---

My brief comments were not intended as a disparagement of Kamren.  To be fair, not only was he a freshmen, but its not like he was intended to be the starter when the year began.  He inherited the position when the senior starter unexpectedly went down.  He is to be commended for his service and the quality of it. 

But I also simply said what I saw.  He was good, not great.  Could he be great at that position after more time?  Perhaps so, but I think he can be better at safety.  Why?  You may ask.  I think quickness is more essential at corner sometimes than speed, quickness to recover especially.  You are going to juked, you are going to take a bite, how quick you reverse and recover, your quickness to be able to stay with receivers' moves is what separates the good ones from the great ones.

bennyl08:

--- Quote from: flippinhogmana on March 07, 2018, 03:46:50 pm ---My brief comments were not intended as a disparagement of Kamren.  To be fair, not only was he a freshmen, but its not like he was intended to be the starter when the year began.  He inherited the position when the senior starter unexpectedly went down.  He is to be commended for his service and the quality of it. 

But I also simply said what I saw.  He was good, not great.  Could he be great at that position after more time?  Perhaps so, but I think he can be better at safety.  Why?  You may ask.  I think quickness is more essential at corner sometimes than speed, quickness to recover especially.  You are going to juked, you are going to take a bite, how quick you reverse and recover, your quickness to be able to stay with receivers' moves is what separates the good ones from the great ones.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I quoted you, but was using the post to respond to some others as well. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off quoting hawginbid

hawginbigd1:

--- Quote from: bennyl08 on March 07, 2018, 03:56:28 pm ---Yeah, I quoted you, but was using the post to respond to some others as well. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off quoting hawginbid

--- End quote ---
I have said it a few times, IMO he was playing out of position, he didn't seem to have the top end speed to stay with the elite speed receivers in the SEC in man coverage. He also doesn't appear to have the "loose hips" that are desired at the CB position, I think he can be an above average to great safety. He appears to be pretty advanced in football IQ, most coaches kids are, it impresses nonetheless. I think he can give us the true SEC type safety that we have been sorely missing, you can see the way he played the run at CB, that we are in for a major upgrade in that area. It may seem a bit illogical but the best run defenses begin and end with the competence of the safety position.

redleg:

--- Quote from: Mo_Better_Hogs on March 07, 2018, 11:59:28 am ---Some of you called this a few months ago.

Sophomore-to-be Kamren Curl (6-2, 188 pounds) has moved from cornerback to strong safety, bumping senior Santos Ramirez (6-2, 195) over to free safety. Veteran Ryan Pulley (5-11, 199) and sophomore Chevin Calloway (5-10, 183) are running first-team at the corners.

Interesting move. I'd kinda like some more details. Maybe someone else can supply them. Also, it's great to have Pulley back. He was missed last year.

This was in the Arkansas Dem-Gazette yesterday.
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/mar/06/secondary-shake-finds-curl-now-strong-safety/

--- End quote ---

I won't be shy or humble on this one.....IT WAS ME...I called for this move to be made months ago!
THIS is a very good starting secondary!

nwahogfan1:
If you put a CB on a island and do not put pressure on the QB then any CB would get burnt at times.  But I love the move.  Very few guys 6'2 have the quickness and agility to play CB but at Safety he can be a beast.  I hope it works out.  Also remember we have Trutts playing now who was a very good JUCO CB who was injured last year.

redleg:
LCB - jr. Ryan Pulley, sr. Kevin Richardson, rfr. Jordan Curtis, rfr. Jarques McClellion
SS - soph. Kamren Curl, soph. Micah Smith, fr. Myles Mason
FS - sr. Santos Ramirez, rfr. Montaric Brown, fr. Joe Foucha
RCB - soph. Chevin Calloway, jr. Britto Tutt, rfr. Korey Hernandez, fr. Ladarrius Bishop

Not a lot of experience behind the starters, but plenty of talent, size, and speed.

tusked:

--- Quote from: redleg on March 08, 2018, 10:09:11 am ---LCB - jr. Ryan Pulley, sr. Kevin Richardson, rfr. Jordan Curtis, rfr. Jarques McClellion
SS - soph. Kamren Curl, soph. Micah Smith, fr. Myles Mason
FS - sr. Santos Ramirez, rfr. Montaric Brown, fr. Joe Foucha
RCB - soph. Chevin Calloway, jr. Britto Tutt, rfr. Korey Hernandez, fr. Ladarrius Bishop

Not a lot of experience behind the starters, but plenty of talent, size, and speed.

--- End quote ---

If Richardson gets his extra year, would he move ahead of Calloway?

GoHogzzGo:
Good read here as well on the topic. Bit confused now who Montaric Brown is backing up. Either way seems like we are getting some better Saftey depth.

https://247sports.com/college/arkansas/Article/Safety-Santos-Ramirez-having-outstanding-spring-playing-for-Arkansas-Razorbacks-Defensive-Coordinator-John-Chavis-115970050

rljjr:
As long as K Curl is on the field we will be better off. Sure, he got beat a few times. Every corner does. I loved the way he hand fought and stayed tight most of the time. He was the victim of bad calls at least twice (A&M and another game). He was called on to do a job as a true freshman and he responded like a champ. If he's on the field as Safety then we've improved there IMHO. Big fan of his. Will be fun to watch him play Safety with a defensive line that intends on putting pressure on the quarterback.

Hog Fan...DOH!:

--- Quote from: tusked on March 08, 2018, 10:38:08 am ---If Richardson gets his extra year, would he move ahead of Calloway?

--- End quote ---

He would play nickel, I think.

Dropkick:
I thought Curl played his @ss off last year. Look forward to seeing him on the field with a year of experience behind him.

nwahogfan1:

--- Quote from: redleg on March 08, 2018, 10:09:11 am ---LCB - jr. Ryan Pulley, sr. Kevin Richardson, rfr. Jordan Curtis, rfr. Jarques McClellion
SS - soph. Kamren Curl, soph. Micah Smith, fr. Myles Mason
FS - sr. Santos Ramirez, rfr. Montaric Brown, fr. Joe Foucha
RCB - soph. Chevin Calloway, jr. Britto Tutt, rfr. Korey Hernandez, fr. Ladarrius Bishop

Not a lot of experience behind the starters, but plenty of talent, size, and speed.

--- End quote ---


Finally talent and depth in our secondary.   Love it.

#hammerdown:
I agree with most of the comments on this thread.  He probably is a more natural safety.  I just hope he wants it as much.  Either he or his dad made a comment on twitter last year about others not thinking he could play corner.  One of the reasons we got him was because most were recruiting him for safety and he wanted to play corner.

Hopefully he buys in and embraces the move.  I believe we can have the best secondary we have had in a long long time with these guys.

Kevin:

--- Quote from: #hammerdown on March 08, 2018, 03:49:24 pm ---I agree with most of the comments on this thread.  He probably is a more natural safety.  I just hope he wants it as much.  Either he or his dad made a comment on twitter last year about others not thinking he could play corner.  One of the reasons we got him was because most were recruiting him for safety and he wanted to play corner.

Hopefully he buys in and embraces the move.  I believe we can have the best secondary we have had in a long long time with these guys.


--- End quote ---

the chief has put a bunch in the pros. might want to listen to him

HogCzar1:

--- Quote from: hawginbigd1 on March 07, 2018, 02:23:16 pm ---Curl was not fast enough to play CB, he got flat out run by, too many times. He will make an awesome safety IMO.

--- End quote ---

I think this is a great move with Curl as well. Both LSU and Mizzou targeted him on the deep ball last year with success. He could wind up being a great safety.

MuskogeeHogFan:

--- Quote from: HogCzar1 on March 08, 2018, 07:35:14 pm ---I think this is a great move with Curl as well. Both LSU and Mizzou targeted him on the deep ball last year with success. He could wind up being a great safety.

--- End quote ---

Curl played Safety most of the time in HS but he was too light and too young to play Safety last year. I think that he learned a great deal his first season, being forced into action at CB and he certainly learned what it is like as a CB to not have "Safety over the top" help at times. He needs to put on a little weight (my opinion...and probably has) and needs to learn how to come up and deliver a substantial blow, but neither of these are beyond his grasp. Naturally, I'd like to see "my guy from Muskogee" become an "enforcer", but he may still be a year away from being someone that WR's don't want to have to interact with.

HOGINTENNESSEE:
I agree safety is probably his best position and it is certain the position we need him at.

liljo:
It's a win-win. I think this young man did a great job for us at corner last year, especially under the circumstances. But I am confident the coaches know what they're doing and this means he will be even better at safety.

The second win is in allowing Santos the freedom to roam at the free safety spot. Santos Ramirez is a Bad Man.

PorkSoda:

--- Quote from: liljo on March 08, 2018, 08:49:53 pm ---It's a win-win. I think this young man did a great job for us at corner last year, especially under the circumstances. But I am confident the coaches know what they're doing and this means he will be even better at safety.

The second win is in allowing Santos the freedom to roam at the free safety spot. Santos Ramirez is a Bad Man.

--- End quote ---
maybe I'm confused but isn't Santos a SS and Curl being an ex CB mostly likely to be a free safety where speed is more important?

liljo:

--- Quote from: PorkSoda on March 08, 2018, 09:07:20 pm ---maybe I'm confused but isn't Santos a SS and Curl being an ex CB mostly likely to be a free safety where speed is more important?

--- End quote ---

Nope. They are moving Santos FROM SS to FS.

liljo:

--- Quote from: liljo on March 08, 2018, 09:14:38 pm ---Nope. They are moving Santos FROM SS to FS. At least that is the current discussion.

--- End quote ---

southarkhog06:

--- Quote from: nwahogfan1 on March 08, 2018, 11:24:00 am ---
Finally talent and depth in our secondary.   Love it.

--- End quote ---
If we can just get some pressure on the QB next season this defense will surprise us all IMO.

HogFoo:

--- Quote from: Mo_Better_Hogs on March 07, 2018, 11:59:28 am ---Some of you called this a few months ago.

Sophomore-to-be Kamren Curl (6-2, 188 pounds) has moved from cornerback to strong safety, bumping senior Santos Ramirez (6-2, 195) over to free safety. Veteran Ryan Pulley (5-11, 199) and sophomore Chevin Calloway (5-10, 183) are running first-team at the corners.

Interesting move. I'd kinda like some more details. Maybe someone else can supply them. Also, it's great to have Pulley back. He was missed last year.

This was in the Arkansas Dem-Gazette yesterday.
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/mar/06/secondary-shake-finds-curl-now-strong-safety/

--- End quote ---
I thought curl did well last year for being a freshman.   I do like this move though.  I think Calloway was the better DB tho.  He too being a true frosh.  I also like having Ramirez at free safety and I love getting our best shutdown CB back from injury.  Pulley.  Man we missed him last season.   This bodes well, as I think our 1st team defense will be able to compete with about anyone. Gerald and Agim at bookends.   That's gonna be a handful for every offense we play.  Especially having Pulley back and Calloway another year better.  That's 1 shutdown CB possibly 2!   Curl I think will make an excellent safety  as well!    If we look at Chavis' defense, we already know what he wants to do.  Bring the DE's crashing and collapsing the  pocket around the QB, and making him scramble or dump it to a RB and when they try to escape the pocket, we'll have the LBs finish them off.  It works very well when we have 1 shutdown CB, and if we have 2, forgettaboutittttttt!   And when we also have an excellent Safety, then were talking about having one of the best defenses in the SEC.  Our biggest prob will be finding depth as good as our starting depth.  We'll have 2yrs left out of our awesome DE's  Agim and Gerald, unless they have breakout years like I think they'll have!  It would NOT surprise me if Agim and Gerald lead the sec in sacks this season.  A lighter, quicker Agim is gonna be a stud!    But yes ,  we need to get more depth.  Seems like a broken record hearing that huh? haha...  but, like I said, I do believe our 1st team will be studs.     

Sow Lancelot:

--- Quote from: redleg on March 08, 2018, 10:09:11 am ---LCB - jr. Ryan Pulley, sr. Kevin Richardson, rfr. Jordan Curtis, rfr. Jarques McClellion
SS - soph. Kamren Curl, soph. Micah Smith, fr. Myles Mason
FS - sr. Santos Ramirez, rfr. Montaric Brown, fr. Joe Foucha
RCB - soph. Chevin Calloway, jr. Britto Tutt, rfr. Korey Hernandez, fr. Ladarrius Bishop

Not a lot of experience behind the starters, but plenty of talent, size, and speed.

--- End quote ---
Wow. Young.

But the 2020 season oughta be fantastic.

ThisTeetsTaken:

--- Quote from: Mo_Better_Hogs on March 07, 2018, 11:59:28 am ---Some of you called this a few months ago.

Sophomore-to-be Kamren Curl (6-2, 188 pounds) has moved from cornerback to strong safety, bumping senior Santos Ramirez (6-2, 195) over to free safety. Veteran Ryan Pulley (5-11, 199) and sophomore Chevin Calloway (5-10, 183) are running first-team at the corners.

Interesting move. I'd kinda like some more details. Maybe someone else can supply them. Also, it's great to have Pulley back. He was missed last year.

This was in the Arkansas Dem-Gazette yesterday.
http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2018/mar/06/secondary-shake-finds-curl-now-strong-safety/

--- End quote ---
Pulley plays taller than 5'11" IMO. 

Cinco de Hogo:

--- Quote from: Kevin on March 08, 2018, 04:25:46 pm ---the chief has put a bunch in the pros. might want to listen to him

--- End quote ---

Exactly what I thought, when you have a coach like Chavis telling you what position to play you better listen.

redleg:

--- Quote from: Sow Lancelot on March 09, 2018, 04:50:36 am ---Wow. Young.

But the 2020 season oughta be fantastic.

--- End quote ---

2020? Yeah, hopefully so. But I think this year they will be very much improved. 2019 is looking like a potentially great secondary! Pulley will be a senior. Calloway will be a junior and will have a year of starting experience. Curl will be a junior and will be in his third year starting. And I look for Montaric Brown to be the best FS Arkansas has had since Michael Grant. Plus, there will be depth with experience.

bennyl08:

--- Quote from: redleg on March 09, 2018, 09:22:25 am ---2020? Yeah, hopefully so. But I think this year they will be very much improved. 2019 is looking like a potentially great secondary! Pulley will be a senior. Calloway will be a junior and will have a year of starting experience. Curl will be a junior and will be in his third year starting. And I look for Montaric Brown to be the best FS Arkansas has had since Michael Grant. Plus, there will be depth with experience.

--- End quote ---

So what your saying is Pulley will be a rookie...

kp72204:
I think/hope he succeeds regardless where they put him. If it would help i'd put Cole Kelly at safety (only if it would help though).

DeltaBoy:
Good move for Him.

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