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What is the importance?

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Memhogs:

Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

TexasRazorback:

Being a great former HC Texas coach, Morris has tremendous connections to other Texas High Schools, Those connections and relationships he's already built with the coaches will go a long way in recruiting those coaches players

NoogaHog:

I think that it is the fact that the kids look up to their coaches and respect their opinions, and they coaches have a tremendous influence on these kids. If your coach does not like the coach that is recruiting you, or your coach does not trust the program that is recruiting you, you are going to know. Also, if the high school coach really likes the college coach, he might be more willing to reach out and say, "Yeah, Johnny five star has committed to go to Bama, but have you really looked at Tommy 3 star, he is really under the radar", or "have you seen tape on Billy Tenth Grader? he is gonna be really good next year. You should meet him"

Piglet:

If a kid respects and likes his high school coach, he may seek his advice on schools to consider.    The coach probably won't push him in any direction, but if the coach knows Morris, there is a good chance Arkansas will get a recommendation.  No sure thing, but a slight edge.

redeye:

I think Morris is a legend in the state, similar to Gus Malzahn in Arkansas.  Malzahn pulled Kodi Burns from Northside when he was Auburn's OC, so hopefully Morris will have similar success as the head coach, recruiting a state with far more talent.

edit: After checking, I see that Malzahn actually recruited Burns while he was at Arkansas and Tuberville recruited him for Auburn.  Still an Arkansas connection, though.

HogginUp:


--- Quote from: NoogaHog on February 13, 2018, 01:16:52 pm ---I think that it is the fact that the kids look up to their coaches and respect their opinions, and they coaches have a tremendous influence on these kids. If your coach does not like the coach that is recruiting you, or your coach does not trust the program that is recruiting you, you are going to know. Also, if the high school coach really likes the college coach, he might be more willing to reach out and say, "Yeah, Johnny five star has committed to go to Bama, but have you really looked at Tommy 3 star, he is really under the radar", or "have you seen tape on Billy Tenth Grader? he is gonna be really good next year. You should meet him"

--- End quote ---
Bingo.

OneTuskOverTheLine™:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

 He currently has relationships with those same coaches. He is a social net worker in an old school sense in that he builds relationships. Those relationships last through trust. When you're looking for advice on someone and the person you're asking says, "I'd trust them with my own son."; that's the kind of relationships he has everywhere. Not just in Texas.
 I get it. You're used to being let down, hornswoggled and just outright whipped on the field and in recruiting. This guy is not a disingenuous blow hard. I don't care that he didn't come in here and recruit on par with UGA and Bama this year. I think he did better than either of those coaches could have done in the same amount of time in the same place in their careers... Kids looking for the glory of a schools cache are not going to want to come here until this program is rolling. Give it time, and he will have it rolling very soon.

Warrior Way 22:

He also runs the same system as the majority of Texas HS programs. Obviously that's not a huge factor as many college programs run that as well. However, it definitely helps us in a sense that skill players want to play in that type of up-tempo, spread out offense. That might be what it takes to  get those 50/50 guys to come onboard.

Bash:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

Recruits pick schools for a variety of reasons.  But parents, other family members, and their high school coaches often have a big influence. Connections to these influencers (or lack of them) is a big deal.

razorbackfaninar:

Also when I was in school which was longer ago that I'd like to admit, Our High School coach would reach out to college coaches he knew to talk to them about kids that could  potentially be scholarship or walk-on's that no one might be looking at.  He used his contacts to reach out to coaches he knew who were at bigger schools but weren't necessarily in the SEC footprint and get kids looked at by schools that might not otherwise have expended the resources to look at. He also gave all of the kids going that route advice on the coaches he knew or had a relationship with, Like "oh he's a nice guy", or "he's hard to play for but he'll make you better", things like that. 

I would guess it is helpful in that if there is a highly recruited kid and we are trying to get a visit from him and he trusts his head coach his coach might say, "hey Chad Morris is the real deal he's a good coach and runs a good program."  It might make the difference in getting a visit and not getting one. Not to mention there might be coaches that would call Morris on a 9th grader or 10th grader that maybe no one is on yet so we can get a foot in the door.  There are definite benefits to having those contacts.
       

Hog Fan...DOH!:

I have an old fraternity brother in Texas that sends me business in Arkansas...



King Kong:


--- Quote from: redeye on February 13, 2018, 01:20:12 pm ---I think Morris is a legend in the state, similar to Gus Malzahn in Arkansas.  Malzahn pulled Kodi Burns from Northside when he was Auburn's OC, so hopefully Morris will have similar success as the head coach, recruiting a state with far more talent.

edit: After checking, I see that Malzahn actually recruited Burns while he was at Arkansas and Tuberville recruited him for Auburn.  Still an Arkansas connection, though.

--- End quote ---

Kodi Burns committed to Tommy Tuberville. Gus recruited him when he was a coach at Arkansas. After a brief stay in Tulsa Gus coached Burns at Auburn.

However, Kodi did not commit to Gus out of HS.

Michael Dyer did commit to Gus

Vantage 8 dude:

Yes, there are a number of factors that go into recruiting and how/why kids choose a particular school. Obviously there are far too many to list here; however, most certainly ONE factor that seems to be repeated over and over again, year in-year out, by many kids is the RELATIONSHIP(S) they've built with a particular coach, staff, other kids on the team, etc. In that vein I would think having strong, established relationships with various coaches (many of whom were once your peer) helps you get a foot in the door. Doesn't guarantee that a recruit will consider or choose your program, however, if his high school head coach knows, trusts and likes a college coach/staff it sure doesn't hurt.

Along those lines I'm sure most of us have over the years heard stories of certain HCs, staffs, etc who have pissed off a coach or group of coaches and not exactly been received warmly in the future. In fact, if I recall correctly there was this one time a few years back when our most recent/former HC allegedly made some type of comment to a group of Texas high school coaches about the type of widely utilized offense down in the Lone Star State. From everything I read and heard that particular remark supposedly made Bret "persona non grata" (sp) in that neck of the woods.



racinghog:


--- Quote from: Piglet on February 13, 2018, 01:19:53 pm ---If a kid respects and likes his high school coach, he may seek his advice on schools to consider.    The coach probably won't push him in any direction, but if the coach knows Morris, there is a good chance Arkansas will get a recommendation.  No sure thing, but a slight edge.

--- End quote ---
This!! We will answer questions, offer them check list, and give advise on coaches (if we know them) but we will never push a player toward a certain school. To say you know many Texas HS coaches may be true but doen't carry the weight one may think. It is just a selling point to the fans.

Dwillhog66:


--- Quote from: racinghog on February 13, 2018, 07:21:31 pm ---This!! We will answer questions, offer them check list, and give advise on coaches (if we know them) but we will never push a player toward a certain school. To say you know many Texas HS coaches may be true but doen't carry the weight one may think. It is just a selling point to the fans.

--- End quote ---

I believe it goes deeper than that in many instances. HS coaches, for the most part, care a great deal about their players and want them to be treated fairly and with care when they go off to college.
Knowing the coach and trusting him, can and does go a long way in their influence on directing their players to who they believe will truly take care of them.

SooieGeneris:

The HS coach has a lot of influence over these young men. The fact that most of the HS coaches in Texas know Morris and like and respect him will open doors to us, getting players to visit who might not have visited otherwise.

I don't think any players will be pushed in our direction, but some may be encouraged to check us out. Limbo Parks is a HS assistant in the St. Louis area who has done so with some players or at least talked us up to them.

If they don't visit, they almost without exception aren't coming here. If they do, we have a chance. There are now just under 6,000 students from Texas on the UA campus.  That is a big selling point as many of the recruits know some of them or were HS teammates with them, thus they would not be going in cold to a place where they don't know anyone.

SooieGeneris:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

Having been at Clemson, Morris can point to several players he recruited and coached from there in the NFL. There are two Clemson alums in particular based in Texas he can point to: DeShaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins of the Texans.

It may not be the deciding factor, but it sure can't hurt. Plus Courtland Sutton of SMU is projected to be a 1st round pick in this year's draft. Those guys all speak highly of Coach Morris and Sutton will be talked about a lot as the draft approaches and afterward.

KlubhouseKonnected:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

Why do so many grown men in Arkansas want to have Gus Malzahn’s babies? Most people are tribal, weird and on average stupid. If you can benefit from that you should maybe consider it.

The Hogfather:


--- Quote from: KlubhouseKonnected on February 14, 2018, 12:15:40 am ---Why do so many grown men in Arkansas want to have Gus Malzahn’s babies? Most people are tribal, weird and on average stupid. If you can benefit from that you should maybe consider it.

--- End quote ---

True love.

rljjr:

HS coaches have a sense of brotherhood. It's even a closer bond of respect and fraternity among Texas HS coaches. That's why it's a big deal -- Relationships and respect.



Hawgboy64:

Being on good terms with the Texas high school coaches doesn't guarantee getting great recruits but, pissing them off like Bielema did with his comments at the Texas high school coaches convention really hurt us. [Bielema] stood up and said, 'If you don't play with a fullback, we'll kick your ass. If you throw it 70 times a game, we'll kick your ass.' Most Texas HS teams play some type of spread offense and that did not sit well with them.
Comments like Bret's alienate those HS coaches and killed our chances at the high end recruits the last few years.  Morris is doing everything he can to rebuild that pipe line and get the Hogs the players we need.

311Hog:

i think there is a pretty big difference in being a "successful" high school coach from Texas and being what CCM is and some on his staff are.

They from what i understand to be more like legends of HS football in the state, especially in the Dallas metro area and east texas, both places that are fairly close to the UofA and have a significant UofA footprint already.

Hell one guy has a field named after him and he isn't old.  Being a legend and young and "relevant" i can only see as a benefit.

tbhogfan:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

It doesn't hurt to have existing relationships with HS coaches in a recruiting hotbed.  A good word from a HS coach might cause a player to take a closer look at a program.  At the end of the day, the college coaches still have to build a relationship with the player, and sell them on their program.  IMO, being a former Texas HS coach is a small advantage to getting a Texas player.

 A bigger advantage would be to be Nick Saban, or the HC of UT or aTm.


elviscat:

One word, relationship.

12247:

Guys, remember nearly every year schools get some decent player from somewhere no one expected.  Just out of the blue this happens.  Then you learn that said assistant and the HC at that High School were teammates in college or something like that.  Where things are equal or near equal, knowing the high school coach, a brother, the DAD, MOM or Uncle can carry weight.  Having the girlfriend going to your school carries weight.  If it didn't matter then why do we pine for assistants from various locations for their recruiting value.  Remember our supposed Florida connections and LA connections on Bret's staffs. 

Flrazrback:

Relationships ... Our Coaches have extensive relationships in Texas with most all the high school programs. Coach Traylor has won State Titles, Coach Morris has won State Titles in the State of Texas. Our staff is respected in many high school programs, Texas and beyond. Having great relationships with the High School Coach gets our name in the ear of the student athlete and his family. Having the High School Coach as a scout basically for talent is a huge positive, your going to get the true evaluation of a player and maybe identify that under the radar talent with help from the High School Coach.

Music City Hog:

The correct answer:  It doesn't mean much at all.  Imagine a Texas high school coach telling national championship winning Jimbo Fisher to wait in the lobby because an old Texas high coach is here too.  Besides, if he kicked those Texas high school coaches asses, they may not be eager to help him.

It will help in that Morris has motivation to recruit talent rich Texas because it is home, but I don't think any elite prospect gets steered to Arkansas over Texas, Oklahoma, or Texas A&M.  That seems pretty silly.

razorbackfaninar:


--- Quote from: Music City Hog on February 15, 2018, 03:36:48 pm ---The correct answer:  It doesn't mean much at all.  Imagine a Texas high school coach telling national championship winning Jimbo Fisher to wait in the lobby because an old Texas high coach is here too.  Besides, if he kicked those Texas high school coaches asses, they may not be eager to help him.

It will help in that Morris has motivation to recruit talent rich Texas because it is home, but I don't think any elite prospect gets steered to Arkansas over Texas, Oklahoma, or Texas A&M.  That seems pretty silly.

--- End quote ---

I disagree that it doesn't mean much.  It may not make anything automatic, but I know a lot of HS coaches, they are a pretty tight fraternity.  If it is a coach that Morris is friendly with, or has known or even if they have friends in common it is going to make a difference.  HS coaches don't necessarily always steer kids to specific schools, but if a kids comes to his HS coach and says " hey Arkansas just offered me" and that coach says you should talk to coach Morris He 's a good guy. He'll get you prepared for the NFL , he run's a system you could do good in that is going to help.  It doesn't mean the flood gates are going to open and 5 star recruits are going to pour in , but it helps to open doors. 

NoogaHog:

I may be "misremembering", but isn't connections to a high school coach how we got in the door for Nick Fulwider? Wasn't that assistant coach (Arkansas Alum) touting 2 of his kids to CBB and staff (and here on HV?) Isn't he the coach that hosted CCM and cooked a meal for him on a recruiting trip to see Nick? I may have the wrong kid, but that is what I remember.

Maybe that coach can chime in on his perspective on the recruiting game.

ricepig:


--- Quote from: NoogaHog on February 15, 2018, 05:02:00 pm ---I may be "misremembering", but isn't connections to a high school coach how we got in the door for Nick Fulwider? Wasn't that assistant coach (Arkansas Alum) touting 2 of his kids to CBB and staff (and here on HV?) Isn't he the coach that hosted CCM and cooked a meal for him on a recruiting trip to see Nick? I may have the wrong kid, but that is what I remember.

Maybe that coach can chime in on his perspective on the recruiting game.

--- End quote ---

That was John Mincey that signed with Tennessee.

NoogaHog:


--- Quote from: ricepig on February 15, 2018, 05:19:25 pm ---That was John Mincey that signed with Tennessee.

--- End quote ---

Oh, yeah. My bad. Sorry.

BenDial:

I talked to one HS coach and he said it helped that Morris was “one of them.” Felt like Morris and the staff really respected high school coaches and didn’t talk down to them like they were not knowledgeable.

You have to win with the recruit, but it really helps to win with momma and the recruit’s high school coaches as well.

sickboy:

Well, if you watch video of Morris talking about 2019, he specifically makes a remark that shows you how being a high school coach in Texas helps. He basically tells you the mindset of a high school coach, and he highlights how to create a meaningful dialogue and exchange with a high school coach by catering to their needs. Unless you've been a high school football coach, you can't possibly understand that.

Recruiting high school players is as much about building relationships with administrators as it is the players. You think some of these rock star college football coaches care what a high school coach's needs are? I think this is one reason Morris is going to be successful recruiting for Arkansas.

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/morris-looks-ahead-to-2019-class/

Richard Davenport:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---

I'm like a lot of people and knew of Morris but didn't know a lot about him. When I reached out to HS coaches in Texas, it wasn't the usual small talk about a coach and how they had good things to say. When I asked them about Morris they raved about him. You can tell when people are going through the motions and saying good things and you can tell when people really like and respect a guy and they LOVE Morris.

That helps with kids and parents.  It will pay off.

hawgon:

So, my friend who is an East Texas high school coach that I reconnected with a bit a week or so ago had this to say.  First he is good enough friends with Traylor that he was texting him about his chances at getting the SMU job after Morris got the Arkansas job.  He knows him and several other coaches in the staff very well and has known them for years.  Secondly, he said that as far as what we had heard about Morris and his relations with high school coaches and how well they thought of him, “It’s all true.”  And finally, he said that not  once in five years did he talk to Brett Bielema or any Arkansas coach.

He also had a tenth grade QB who is already generating interest from the likes of Ohio State and Texas.  He sent me a pic of Tom Herman in his office.  And yes, Arkansas is on him too.  Traylor and the kid text regularly.

Nashville Fan:

Camps are important also. Coaches bring prospects. The HS coaches get tips and prospects get trained by college coaches. Kids that are not as financially fortunate get an unofficial not paid out of their own pocket.


Hawgphat:

From these initial, early feedback reports I've gleaned regarding Coach Morris & crew"s barnstorming efforts in Texas AND in Arkansas, our new football staff appears to be developing an excellent rapport with HS coaches, and they are reportedly establishing an enviable bond of trust and cooperation with the composite HS football network.  Such successful efforts are crucial to successful recruiting results.

I believe that things may be looking up for us in this regard.  I SURELY hope so.

Con el Cerdos:


Ben, I think you're right.  Morris likely has a good reputation with some of the coaches.  But most of them are not going to push one of their recruits to Arkansas.  Where Morris might benefit is not having a Texas high school coach demean the University of Arkansas football program, and he (Morris) can get in and sell his program to recruits.

The only way I see a coach trying to influence one of his players to look at Arkansas would be if he is under recruited, and the coach knows his player has P-5 ability.

Where I think Morris will be most successful is at schools he's coached their football team.  And at schools who employ a coach he has previously worked with, such as Lake Travis.

hawgon:

Let me say this, though he did well this last signing day, Jimbo Fisher is apparently trying to big time these guys down there.  They are not impressed nor excited about A&M right now.  We could benefit some from that, though A&M will continue to recruit well no matter who is there.

Paul:

This is all conjecture & hope on our part. We shall see

HogFoo:


--- Quote from: Memhogs on February 13, 2018, 01:04:33 pm ---Why is being a former successful Texas highschool coach a significant factor in being able to recruit that state? It may sound dumb, and I am certainly not bashing CCM or any of his assistants. I am just wondering why that gives CCM an advantage over other coaches that may not have the same background. I know he could possibly have some influence on the coaches of these highschool kids based on past relationships from the highschool days... but in the end the recruit makes the decision.. and I know if I were a recruit I would be looking at what program would give me the best shot at making it to the NFL, or whichever school I liked the best based on various other factors. It wouldnt matter to me if the coach recruiting me once coached in the same state I lived in. Maybe im missing something here. Enlighten me fellow hogvillians.

--- End quote ---
Well, in my opinion, CCM being a former Texas high school coach plays a significant factor because he was very well liked in Texas before he moved on to the college ranks. He coached at a very high level, at one of, if not the top HS in all of Texas.  All of the coaches in the state like and highly respect CCM. Which, is very good since Texas is one of the top 3 talent producing states in the union.

   So, let's  break it down.  He  coached at and was successful at a top high school in Texas.  He moved on to the college ranks, where he helped build Clemson into the powerhouse that it currently is, so he still gets the street cred for doing that!  CCM then went to SMU, where he took a dumpster fire of a program and turned them around, going from what,  0 wins to what was it 7 wins + in year 3?    So that's not bad.    Him being a known name in the state of Texas got him in a lot doors when he coached at smu.  It may not have got him a lot of top talent, but they listened.  When he made the move to a P5 school in the toughest conf. in America, it really had an immediate effect.  Some of the same guys he visited and contacted when he was at SMU, he contacted when he became Arkansas' head coach.  And they all listened!  If it had not been so late in the recruiting game, we probably would have had a lot more flips, but that dang early signing period hurt schools who had just changed jobs.   But yeah,  Morris did a good job regardless!   Ive said before in many threads, that I believe that this coming season is going to be at least an 8win season. Especially when Michigan backed out on us, and we replaced them with Turd st.    Point is this.  Morris is a very high energy level guy and so is the staff he has put together.  It helps sooo much that the state he is so well known in also just so happens to be a top producing state for talent. 

I think that Morris will be a successful recruiter in any state though.  Especially when we start rolling the wins out. This offense Morris runs is very exciting and recruits will LOVE playing in it!  As stated, I predict the wins start coming next season! I believe that Morris will prove his ability to recruit (for those star gazers) next season as well.  Because, I predict, that he'll have us a top 15-18 recruiting class! Which will be the best class we've had in the SEC since Nuttsack got us like a 16th/18 ranked class back around 03'.  Watch and see.  This is just the start of things to come.  =-)

Hogtimes:


--- Quote from: SooieGeneris on February 13, 2018, 11:25:54 pm ---The HS coach has a lot of influence over these young men. The fact that most of the HS coaches in Texas know Morris and like and respect him will open doors to us, getting players to visit who might not have visited otherwise.

I don't think any players will be pushed in our direction, but some may be encouraged to check us out. Limbo Parks is a HS assistant in the St. Louis area who has done so with some players or at least talked us up to them.

If they don't visit, they almost without exception aren't coming here. If they do, we have a chance. There are now just under 6,000 students from Texas on the UA campus.  That is a big selling point as many of the recruits know some of them or were HS teammates with them, thus they would not be going in cold to a place where they  don't know anyone.

--- End quote ---

6,000 students from Texas at UA and I will bet very few if any pay out of state tuition.....which is  a burden on the taxpayers  of Arkansas.   I under stand this has nothing to do with this thread and recruiting football players,
 but just had to get it off my chest.  Sorry about the rant.

oldhawg:


--- Quote from: Hogtimes on February 19, 2018, 09:41:46 am ---6,000 students from Texas at UA and I will bet very few if any pay out of state tuition.....which is  a burden on the taxpayers  of Arkansas.   I under stand this has nothing to do with this thread and recruiting football players,
 but just had to get it off my chest.  Sorry about the rant.

--- End quote ---

Not disagreeing with you, but how is it a significant burden to Arkansas taxpayers?

HogX:


--- Quote from: oldhawg on February 19, 2018, 10:14:54 am ---Not disagreeing with you, but how is it a significant burden to Arkansas taxpayers?

--- End quote ---

I'm a bit confused as well.  I mean, many of those 6000 students would have never attended without in-state tuition being an option.  Several of those 6000 will continue to live in the area after graduation and become tax payers themselves, ultimately bolstering the state economy. 

Hogtimes:


--- Quote from: HogX on February 19, 2018, 10:19:43 am ---I'm a bit confused as well.  I mean, many of those 6000 students would have never attended without in-state tuition being an option.  Several of those 6000 will continue to live in the area after graduation and become tax payers themselves, ultimately bolstering the state economy. 

--- End quote ---

That is ok...Most people don't understand.    Typically a student's tuition covers approximately  1/3 of the  actual cost.  The other 2/3 is paid for by the taxpayers and donors.

Instate student's families have normally paid taxes to the state for many years in support of education.  Out of state student's parents  have paid nothing to Arkansas.   That is the reason for having out of state tuition.

With all due respect, to say that some of these out of state students will stay in the area and become taxpayers themselves and boost the economy is a meaningless argument.   There are just so many jobs available and if a student from out of  state does not fill them, then a local student will and pay the same taxes.  Statistics show that 50% of college graduates cannot find a job in their chosen field.  So it is possible that  the out of state student (that Arkansas taxpayers subsidized) who stays in the area and works  is  taking a job from a  instate student.

There is more to the story.  More students means more classrooms, more housing facilities etc.
Who usually pays for most of those facilities?    Yep...the taxpayers.

I hope this helps.

Nashville Fan:


--- Quote from: Hogtimes on February 19, 2018, 03:21:26 pm ---That is ok...Most people don't understand.    Typically a student's tuition covers approximately  1/3 of the  actual cost.  The other 2/3 is paid for by the taxpayers and donors.

Instate student's families have normally paid taxes to the state for many years in support of education.  Out of state student's parents  have paid nothing to Arkansas.   That is the reason for having out of state tuition.

With all due respect, to say that some of these out of state students will stay in the area and become taxpayers themselves and boost the economy is a meaningless argument.   There are just so many jobs available and if a student from out of  state does not fill them, then a local student will and pay the same taxes.  Statistics show that 50% of college graduates cannot find a job in their chosen field.  So it is possible that  the out of state student (that Arkansas taxpayers subsidized) who stays in the area and works  is  taking a job from a  instate student.

There is more to the story.  More students means more classrooms, more housing facilities etc.
Who usually pays for most of those facilities?    Yep...the taxpayers.

I hope this helps.

--- End quote ---
Not to derail the tread... What about the fixed cost aspect? Couldn't the out of state also be covering the fixed cost and helping the tax payers. It's kind of like a half empty plane about to leave the terminal. Any out of state student added is profit that the tax payers do not have to fund.

ricepig:


--- Quote from: Hogtimes on February 19, 2018, 03:21:26 pm ---That is ok...Most people don't understand.    Typically a student's tuition covers approximately  1/3 of the  actual cost.  The other 2/3 is paid for by the taxpayers and donors.

Instate student's families have normally paid taxes to the state for many years in support of education.  Out of state student's parents  have paid nothing to Arkansas.   That is the reason for having out of state tuition.

With all due respect, to say that some of these out of state students will stay in the area and become taxpayers themselves and boost the economy is a meaningless argument.   There are just so many jobs available and if a student from out of  state does not fill them, then a local student will and pay the same taxes.  Statistics show that 50% of college graduates cannot find a job in their chosen field.  So it is possible that  the out of state student (that Arkansas taxpayers subsidized) who stays in the area and works  is  taking a job from a  instate student.

There is more to the story.  More students means more classrooms, more housing facilities etc.
Who usually pays for most of those facilities?    Yep...the taxpayers.

I hope this helps.

--- End quote ---
Student tuition and fees make up $290m and state appropriations are $117m for budget year 2018, so I think your facts are incorrect.

https://budgetua.uark.edu/Budget.aspx

The max a Texas student can get is a scholarship worth 90% of the difference between in-state and out of state tuition.


Hogtimes:

double post.

Hogtimes:


--- Quote from: ricepig on February 19, 2018, 04:27:44 pm ---Student tuition and fees make up $290m and state appropriations are $117m for budget year 2018, so I think your facts are incorrect.

https://budgetua.uark.edu/Budget.aspx

The max a Texas student can get is a scholarship worth 90% of the difference between in-state and out of state tuition.
--- End quote ---

What facts?  I spoke  in general terms.   If you think figures published by the State Legislature tell the full story that is up to you.   If you want to believe that the taxpayers do not take a beating on out of state  students who do not pay the out of state tuition that is also up to you.  90% is a lot.

Also, tuition is not the only cost to be concerned about.   Nashville Fan mentioned fixed costs.  As i said before, additional students mean more classrooms, more housing, more faculty, more labs etc.
The example of empty airline seats is faulty.   When you start adding students at some point there is not enough classroom seats,  faculty to teach added sections etc.   So at some point you have to add more.   In the airplane example, at some point you have to add an additional flight.  If a plane (classroom) seats 100 and you have 110 flyers (students)  you have to add a plane (classroom) and crew at a huge cost.  Flying a plane with only 10 passengers is not economical.

In the 1980's,  the State schools in Texas were experiencing a large increase in student enrollments.  Texas was faced with the huge cost of building new classrooms, housing etc. and adding more faculty.   As result, they determined it would be more cost effective to "pay" students to attend the private schools.  So the State Legislature implemented what was called Tuition Equalization Grants to students that attended private schools.   Basically, they paid the difference in the student's cost to attend a private school  as opposed to enrolling at one of the State schools.

Of course they no longer have to do that, maybe because States like Arkansas make it economically  feasible possible for those student to go out of state.  A year or so ago I read a report (Sorry Ricepig I do not recall where, you can believe me or not)   that showed a student in Kansas could attend UA for less money than attending the University of Kansas.

I am not bashing or degrading the University of Arkansas.   All colleges  are very self serving.  the more students they get, the more revenue they receive.  It makes the Administrators resume look good.  That is why they offer worthless degrees. A few years ago the Governor of North Carolina urged the State Legislature to force the state  colleges to keep records that showed that their grads were getting jobs in their chosen fields....if not  they would have to discontinue offering those degrees.

Finally, if you are wiling to have your tax dollars educate out of state students, many/most of which will find jobs elsewehre (Texas) that is up to you.


ricepig:


--- Quote from: Hogtimes on February 20, 2018, 11:38:49 am ---What facts?  I spoke  in general terms.   If you think figures published by the State Legislature tell the full story that is up to you.   If you want to believe that the taxpayers do not take a beating on out of state  students who do not pay the out of state tuition that is also up to you.  90% is a lot.

Also, tuition is not the only cost to be concerned about.   Nashville Fan mentioned fixed costs.  As i said before, additional students mean more classrooms, more housing, more faculty, more labs etc.
The example of empty airline seats is faulty.   When you start adding students at some point there is not enough classroom seats,  faculty to teach added sections etc.   So at some point you have to add more.   In the airplane example, at some point you have to add an additional flight.  If a plane (classroom) seats 100 and you have 110 flyers (students)  you have to add a plane (classroom) and crew at a huge cost.  Flying a plane with only 10 passengers is not economical.

In the 1980's,the State schools in Texas were experiencing a large increase in student enrollments.  Texas was faced with the huge cost of building new classrooms, housing etc. and adding more faculty.   As result, they determined it would be more cost effective to "pay" students to attend the private schools.  So the State Legislature implemented what was called Tuition Equalization Grants to student that went to private schools.   Basically, they paid the difference in the student's cost to attend a private school  as opposed to enrolling at one of the State schools.

Of course they no longer have to do that, maybe because States like Arkansas make it economically  feasible possible for those student to go out of state.  A year or so ago I read a report (Sorry Ricepig I do not recall where, you can believe me or not)   that showed a student in Kansas could attend UA for less money than attending the University of Kansas.

I am not bashing or degrading the University of Arkansas.   All colleges  are very self serving.  the more students they get, the more revenue they receive.  It makes the Administrators resume look good.  That is why they offer worthless degrees. A few years ago the Governor of North Carolina urged the State Legislature to force the state  colleges to keep records that showed that their grads were getting jobs in their chosen fields....if not  they would have to discontinue offering those degrees.

Finally, if you are wiling to have your tax dollars educate out of state students many/most of which will find jobs elswehre (Texas) that is up to you.


--- End quote ---

That's the University's budget, lol. It quite frankly tells you where they get their money from, and the infrastructure is being paid by bonds that are paid by tuition and fees. I'm sorry, if you have a different one, please post it. So, you would rather there by 15-18,000 students on campus? You do realize that the out of state students pay more even with the scholarships than in-state students? It's simple math, there is a limited amount of in-state students who can pay full tuition, why not have out of state students pay for the infrastructure?

Also, it appears the state of Missouri is worried about the students they are losing.

http://m.arkansasonline.com/news/2018/feb/20/missouri-frets-over-students-opting-for/




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