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Author Topic: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?  (Read 1803 times)

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Piggfoot

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What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« on: April 18, 2018, 09:59:08 am »

nmg.
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steveaustin69

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 09:59:28 am »

Nothing
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jkstock04

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 10:03:38 am »

Absolutely nothing.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 10:13:19 am »

Ask the folks at the Sugar Bowl in 2011 how we feel now knowing that Ohio State "vacated" that win
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JimmyJohnsonsBoat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 10:18:32 am »

A vacated win to the losing team is like a bad divorce. Yeah, you don't have that miserable hag(the loss) hanging around but all your friends still know you're a loser.
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 10:21:59 am »

Ask the folks at the Sugar Bowl in 2011 how we feel now knowing that Ohio State "vacated" that win

Bingo.
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Busta_Nutt

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 10:24:14 am »

Not a damn thing. Let's go pay whatever we have to pay to rise to the top, because I promise you it's not going to happen organically. If you aint cheating, you're only cheating yourself.
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parallaxpig

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 10:44:30 am »

Makes NCAA feel good about themselves
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DeltaBoy

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 10:50:51 am »

Makes NCAA feel good about themselves

This and we should have that Sugar Bowl Trophy. 
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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 11:33:37 am »

Not a damn thing. Let's go pay whatever we have to pay to rise to the top, because I promise you it's not going to happen organically. If you aint cheating, you're only cheating yourself.

If that is truly your attitude, then I feel profoundly sorry for you.  Everybody likes to win; - - but that is a mathematical impossibility.  In order for one team to win, the other team has to lose.

For some of us (myself included), "ethics" and "integrity" are extremely important; not just in sports, but in every walk of life.  If you truly place no value on "ethics" or "integrity", - - and advocate a policy of "winning at any and all costs" then that is - of course - your individual prerogative.  However, were I to hold such a philosophical conviction that "the end justifies the means", I couldn't live with myself, and would be unable to view my own reflection in a mirror without flinching.

"Losing" is a TEMPORARY affliction, - - which can be overcome and reversed with an application of time and dedicated effort.   A lack of character, however, appears to be a permanent debilitating condition which eats away - like a cancer -  at a person's honor and worth as a human being, and can cheapen and defile everything of value in life.

I utterly HATE to be on the losing end of any contest in ANY endeavor or venue.  However, I can conceive of no more repugnant operative personal philosophy to try to justify to myself than that of  condoning literally ANYTHING in order to gain an undeserved, dishonorable win.
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Busta_Nutt

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2018, 11:53:00 am »

If that is truly your attitude, then I feel profoundly sorry for you.  Everybody likes to win; - - but that is a mathematical impossibility.  In order for one team to win, the other team has to lose.

For some of us (myself included), "ethics" and "integrity" are extremely important; not just in sports, but in every walk of life.  If you truly place no value on "ethics" or "integrity", - - and advocate a policy of "winning at any and all costs" then that is - of course - your individual prerogative.  However, were I to hold such a philosophical conviction that "the end justifies the means", I couldn't live with myself, and would be unable to view my own reflection in a mirror without flinching.

"Losing" is a TEMPORARY affliction, - - which can be overcome and reversed with an application of time and dedicated effort.   A lack of character, however, appears to be a permanent debilitating condition which eats away - like a cancer -  at a person's honor and worth as a human being, and can cheapen and defile everything of value in life.

I utterly HATE to be on the losing end of any contest in ANY endeavor or venue.  However, I can conceive of no more repugnant operative personal philosophy to try to justify to myself than that of  condoning literally ANYTHING in order to gain an undeserved, dishonorable win.

Don't care. A win is a win is a win in my book. Doesn't matter that it got vacated, Ohio State still won that Sugar Bowl, Louisville still won that National Championship. I want to win and I don't care how it gets done. Not going to ask and don't expect you to tell...just give me results.
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jkstock04

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2018, 12:01:31 pm »

If that is truly your attitude, then I feel profoundly sorry for you.  Everybody likes to win; - - but that is a mathematical impossibility.  In order for one team to win, the other team has to lose.

For some of us (myself included), "ethics" and "integrity" are extremely important; not just in sports, but in every walk of life.  If you truly place no value on "ethics" or "integrity", - - and advocate a policy of "winning at any and all costs" then that is - of course - your individual prerogative.  However, were I to hold such a philosophical conviction that "the end justifies the means", I couldn't live with myself, and would be unable to view my own reflection in a mirror without flinching.

"Losing" is a TEMPORARY affliction, - - which can be overcome and reversed with an application of time and dedicated effort.   A lack of character, however, appears to be a permanent debilitating condition which eats away - like a cancer -  at a person's honor and worth as a human being, and can cheapen and defile everything of value in life.

I utterly HATE to be on the losing end of any contest in ANY endeavor or venue.  However, I can conceive of no more repugnant operative personal philosophy to try to justify to myself than that of  condoning literally ANYTHING in order to gain an undeserved, dishonorable win.
Do you find the university of Alabama football to be repulsive? Do you think their fans should be ashamed? If the answer to this is anything other than “yes” then lol.

The problem with the high and mighty, straight and narrow way of thinking when it comes to NCAA power 5 football (especially the SEC), a good majority of these programs competing are win first programs. So, what happens is that... combined this narrative that was pushed the past few years of winning is secondary/integrity will lead to nothing but failure.

Look what has happened to Ole Miss. Basically nothing. They swung for the fences and got wrist slapped despite all the “NCAA is going to hammer them” stuff I read about on here and other forums. NCAA basically is saying do whatever you want, just don’t make it too obvious.

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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 12:10:53 pm »

Don't care. A win is a win is a win in my book. Doesn't matter that it got vacated, Ohio State still won that Sugar Bowl, Louisville still won that National Championship. I want to win and I don't care how it gets done. Not going to ask and don't expect you to tell...just give me results.

I'm in agreement with the first part of your observation.  "Vacating" a "WIN" in the official record book does not - and WILL not - overturn the factual on-field win of the victorious team in the minds and collective memory of the fans of either program.  That proposition is effectively tantamount to closing and locking the barn doors after the horses have all escaped and are widely dispersed and are now far away.  The very notion is ludicrous.

I won't belabor the issue of my fierce opposition to - and utter disdain for - a practice of "cheating" in order to attain an otherwise undeserved winning ratio.  I suppose that we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that premise.  I'll let it go.
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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 12:38:58 pm »

Do you find the university of Alabama football to be repulsive? Do you think their fans should be ashamed? If the answer to this is anything other than “yes” then lol.

The problem with the high and mighty, straight and narrow way of thinking when it comes to NCAA power 5 football (especially the SEC), a good majority of these programs competing are win first programs. So, what happens is that... combined this narrative that was pushed the past few years of winning is secondary/integrity will lead to nothing but failure.

Look what has happened to Ole Miss. Basically nothing. They swung for the fences and got wrist slapped despite all the “NCAA is going to hammer them” stuff I read about on here and other forums. NCAA basically is saying do whatever you want, just don’t make it too obvious.

I'm not a fan of Alabama football, and thus have no basis upon which to weigh in on ethical concerns involving their program.  I'm a dedicated fan of Arkansas Razorbacks football; and that's the focus of my concern.

The old excuse "everybody does it" is not factual; NOT everybody does it.  Honor and integrity DO matter to some among us, - - in football philosophy and in LIFE philosophy.  I am adamantly convinced that those who determine to justify in their own minds a policy of cheating for their own gain will eventually end up cheating themselves and those who depend upon them.

NCAA sanctions and penalties are serious concerns, of course.  I simply believe that it is an invitation to disaster to adopt the attitude which dictates, "I'm smarter than those stupid, straight-arrow Bozos; I'm gonna cheat and not get caught".  Anyone who persists in playing "Russian Roulette" with the consequences of unethical practices is sooner or later going to come to a very sudden - and very brief - realization of the foolishness of his dishonorable deception.  Apart from having deceived and deluded others, he has - first and foremost - deceived and deluded himself.

When The Big Rooster "crows", all of the "chickens" will "come home to roost"; - - - and MANY will find that they have "laid an egg" with their lives.
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NaturalStateReb

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 12:42:46 pm »

Nothing.  It allows the NCAA to say, "see, we totally did something here."
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Busta_Nutt

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 12:50:32 pm »

I'm in agreement with the first part of your observation.  "Vacating" a "WIN" in the official record book does not - and WILL not - overturn the factual on-field win of the victorious team in the minds and collective memory of the fans of either program.  That proposition is effectively tantamount to closing and locking the barn doors after the horses have all escaped and are widely dispersed and are now far away.  The very notion is ludicrous.

I won't belabor the issue of my fierce opposition to - and utter disdain for - a practice of "cheating" in order to attain an otherwise undeserved winning ratio.  I suppose that we'll simply have to agree to disagree on that premise.  I'll let it go.

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31to6

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jkstock04

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 01:50:46 pm »

I'm not a fan of Alabama football, and thus have no basis upon which to weigh in on ethical concerns involving their program.  I'm a dedicated fan of Arkansas Razorbacks football; and that's the focus of my concern.


Nice spin and deflection here. I figured you wouldn’t answer that straight up.
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LRRandy

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 01:58:09 pm »

This and we should have that Sugar Bowl Trophy.
why should you have the trophy? You want a trophy for a game you lost?
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2018, 02:00:38 pm »

I've always found the "vacating a win" idea somewhat puzzling. While I understand that a program shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the rules, it makes little sense that in certain situations the team(s) who lost as a result of the winning team's infraction(s) shouldn't necessarily be "compensated". For instance, in the case of a team utilizing an ineligible player(s) or being found guilty of using a player(s) that shouldn't have participated for whatever reason(s) the team who suffered as a result of the infraction should be awarded the victory. And while for some that might seem unjust, it's no more so than a "slap on the wrist" the offending team receives now by merely vacating a win (or wins). IMO in order to serve as a stronger deterent to further future bad behavior the offending program should be made to show an actual LOSS, not a vacated victory. 
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DLUXHOG

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 02:06:13 pm »

Simply proves that the penalized team was/is a dirty cheater....
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hogsanity

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 02:24:34 pm »

Do you find the university of Alabama football to be repulsive? Do you think their fans should be ashamed? If the answer to this is anything other than “yes” then lol.

The problem with the high and mighty, straight and narrow way of thinking when it comes to NCAA power 5 football (especially the SEC), a good majority of these programs competing are win first programs. So, what happens is that... combined this narrative that was pushed the past few years of winning is secondary/integrity will lead to nothing but failure.

Look what has happened to Ole Miss. Basically nothing. They swung for the fences and got wrist slapped despite all the “NCAA is going to hammer them” stuff I read about on here and other forums. NCAA basically is saying do whatever you want, just don’t make it too obvious.



Here is what is funny though about all the " do what it takes to win " people. They are the same ones that get on message boards and radio shows and call other programs dirty, yet they want he program they follow to be just as dirty or worse.

Plus, lets say everyone else is as dirty as people here think they are, do you think the Hogs could be just as dirty or even more so, because they'd have to be the dirtiest of the dirty to get enough talent to reach the top.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2018, 02:46:06 pm »

why should you have the trophy? You want a trophy for a game you lost?
Simple they CHEATED.
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Razor1997

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2018, 03:41:58 pm »

I hate that we lost that game, but I still laugh my ass off that Ohio State's dirty cheating ended up costing it an almost certain National Championship.

Remember how they went undefeated the next year but were ineligible to go to the postseason?  The title game ended up being a #1 undefeated but overrated Notre Dame team against a #2 one-loss Alabama team.  An undefeated Ohio State would have been chosen for the BCS Championship Game above a one-loss Bama team, and would have gone on to pound that overrated Notre Dame squad, if they had only just held out those ineligible players from the Sugar Bowl the year before.  Hope that vacated Sugar Bowl title was worth it, jackwagons.
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jkstock04

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2018, 03:46:12 pm »

Here is what is funny though about all the " do what it takes to win " people. They are the same ones that get on message boards and radio shows and call other programs dirty, yet they want he program they follow to be just as dirty or worse.

Plus, lets say everyone else is as dirty as people here think they are, do you think the Hogs could be just as dirty or even more so, because they'd have to be the dirtiest of the dirty to get enough talent to reach the top.
All I know is I would like to see the recruiting game FAIR for all. If the blue chip schools can skirt the rules, everybody else should be able to as well. We have enough going against us geography/location wise as it is without unfair recruiting practices against us as well.
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1highhog

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2018, 04:02:35 pm »

This and we should have that Sugar Bowl Trophy. 

Exactly, did the NCAA make Ohio State give that Sugar Bowl Trophy to us since they had to vacate the win?  Heck no!  So what good did they do, as Sly said, Absolutely Nothing.
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pigture perfect

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2018, 04:18:20 pm »

A vacated win should also have some punitive action as well. Make the offending team or institution pay back all gate receipts and revenues to a charity, and any hardware given to the team they cheated. Why? Because cheaters should never be rewarded.
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2018, 04:29:55 pm »

I've always found the "vacating a win" idea somewhat puzzling. While I understand that a program shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the rules, it makes little sense that in certain situations the team(s) who lost as a result of the winning team's infraction(s) shouldn't necessarily be "compensated". For instance, in the case of a team utilizing an ineligible player(s) or being found guilty of using a player(s) that shouldn't have participated for whatever reason(s) the team who suffered as a result of the infraction should be awarded the victory. And while for some that might seem unjust, it's no more so than a "slap on the wrist" the offending team receives now by merely vacating a win (or wins). IMO in order to serve as a stronger deterent to further future bad behavior the offending program should be made to show an actual LOSS, not a vacated victory.

True. Even though Ohio State "vacated" their win, the Hogs don't get credit for a win.
 
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steveaustin69

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2018, 04:31:04 pm »

A vacated win should also have some punitive action as well. Make the offending team or institution pay back all gate receipts and revenues to a charity, and any hardware given to the team they cheated. Why? Because cheaters should never be rewarded.

So Alabama should pay the NCAA hundreds of millions of dollars for some players getting some free textbooks even when they self reported? Absolutely horrendous take. 
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steveaustin69

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2018, 04:35:20 pm »

All I know is I would like to see the recruiting game FAIR for all. If the blue chip schools can skirt the rules, everybody else should be able to as well. We have enough going against us geography/location wise as it is without unfair recruiting practices against us as well.

If you aint cheating, you're only cheating yourself.
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steveaustin69

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2018, 04:42:23 pm »

I'm not a fan of Alabama football, and thus have no basis upon which to weigh in on ethical concerns involving their program.  I'm a dedicated fan of Arkansas Razorbacks football; and that's the focus of my concern.

The old excuse "everybody does it" is not factual; NOT everybody does it.  Honor and integrity DO matter to some among us, - - in football philosophy and in LIFE philosophy.  I am adamantly convinced that those who determine to justify in their own minds a policy of cheating for their own gain will eventually end up cheating themselves and those who depend upon them.

NCAA sanctions and penalties are serious concerns, of course.  I simply believe that it is an invitation to disaster to adopt the attitude which dictates, "I'm smarter than those stupid, straight-arrow Bozos; I'm gonna cheat and not get caught".  Anyone who persists in playing "Russian Roulette" with the consequences of unethical practices is sooner or later going to come to a very sudden - and very brief - realization of the foolishness of his dishonorable deception.  Apart from having deceived and deluded others, he has - first and foremost - deceived and deluded himself.

When The Big Rooster "crows", all of the "chickens" will "come home to roost"; - - - and MANY will find that they have "laid an egg" with their lives.

It's a sport you holier than thou bozo.

No matter how much you want to live vicariously through the Hogs the goings on of a sports program do not define your personal character.

Only an incredible doofus would say a [insert any school with a recent scandal] grad is unethical and a cheat because of something the football program did.
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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2018, 08:52:08 pm »

Nice spin and deflection here. I figured you wouldn’t answer that straight up.

I don't fathom where you think that I "spun" or "deflected" anything.  I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the Alabama program.  If The Powers That Be at Alabama are cheating, then it's a case of THEIR butts in the barrel waiting to get drilled by the NCAA.  I'm not employed by the NCAA Enforcement Division.  I've been "straight up" in my commentary in this thread about my personal disposition in regard to this issue of "cheating".  I'm aware of the fact that others here disagree with my position; - - but that disagreement neither invalidates my take on it nor makes me a "Bozo".  I'm NOT the only person who believes in adhering to high standards.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 09:18:44 pm by Hawgphat »
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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2018, 09:09:58 pm »

It's a sport you holier than thou bozo.

No matter how much you want to live vicariously through the Hogs the goings on of a sports program do not define your personal character.

Only an incredible doofus would say a [insert any school with a recent scandal] grad is unethical and a cheat because of something the football program did.

Name-calling and personal disparagement does not prove your point, - and cannot and WILL not be the deciding factor in any straight-up debate.

There is only One who is Holy; - - and I am not He.  My name is not "Bozo", - - - but I can at least understand your affinity for four-letter words, so I'll let it pass without a reciprocal attack.

If you deem me to be an "incredible doofus" without any personal knowledge of me whatsoever, then you may perhaps be a bit too hasty to slap unflattering labels on those who have the temerity to disagree with your particular views.

Nowhere in this thread have I claimed that the "goings-on" of a football program define my personal character".  That convoluted charge is ludicrous in its very inception.

Those head coaches and power brokers at major college institutional football programs who resort to cheating are bereft of laudable character and personal honor, and are wholly undeserving of any degree of respect; they are DEFINITELY not role models that young people should look up to and emulate.

If you choose to believe that ethical considerations don't matter - and that honor and integrity are valueless, - - -then I TRULY feel sorry for you, - and for those with whom you choose to associate.
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Seebs

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2018, 10:08:51 pm »

Annulments are cool. You were never married making any kid you had very confused.

When we are all dead none of this will matter. - Oh crap a tree!

- Sonny Bono
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pigture perfect

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2018, 12:03:55 am »

So Alabama should pay the NCAA hundreds of millions of dollars for some players getting some free textbooks even when they self reported? Absolutely horrendous take. 
yes, and I think it's a brilliant take.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2018, 02:12:47 am »

no vacating....the team breaking the rules should be awarded an L and the team abiding by the rules should get the W, and yes, the GD trophy, too
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LZH

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2018, 05:22:08 am »

no vacating....the team breaking the rules should be awarded an L and the team abiding by the rules should get the W, and yes, the GD trophy, too

Didn't Alabama have to forfeit a game to us back in the 90's? I think it may have been Ford's first full year. They drilled us on the field but Iirc they had to forfeit the game. That took us from 4-6-1 to 5-5-1. These days a .500 record gets you a bowl game, but problem is that by the time the NCAA decides to do anything about it, it's years down the road and the players/team doesn't really benefit at all.
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jkstock04

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2018, 07:09:53 am »

I don't fathom where you think that I "spun" or "deflected" anything. 
I asked you a very simple and direct yes or no question and you wouldn’t answer it. Perfectly easy to fathom.

You are probably one of the people who root for Bama to win a national championship every post season “because it makes us/SEC SEC SEC! look good.” The way our fan base thinks is high comedy and will never cease to amaze me.
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steveaustin69

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2018, 08:14:11 am »

Name-calling and personal disparagement does not prove your point, - and cannot and WILL not be the deciding factor in any straight-up debate.

There is only One who is Holy; - - and I am not He.  My name is not "Bozo", - - - but I can at least understand your affinity for four-letter words, so I'll let it pass without a reciprocal attack.

If you deem me to be an "incredible doofus" without any personal knowledge of me whatsoever, then you may perhaps be a bit too hasty to slap unflattering labels on those who have the temerity to disagree with your particular views.

Nowhere in this thread have I claimed that the "goings-on" of a football program define my personal character".  That convoluted charge is ludicrous in its very inception.

Those head coaches and power brokers at major college institutional football programs who resort to cheating are bereft of laudable character and personal honor, and are wholly undeserving of any degree of respect; they are DEFINITELY not role models that young people should look up to and emulate.

If you choose to believe that ethical considerations don't matter - and that honor and integrity are valueless, - - -then I TRULY feel sorry for you, - and for those with whom you choose to associate.

Thanks for the sermon, preacher man. It's a sport. Get over yourself.
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2018, 08:51:16 am »

Scoop and score, and the argument is moot.
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gawntrail

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2018, 01:44:24 pm »

Scoop and score, and the argument is moot.

Don’t force a ball and get it picked.
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Hawgphat

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2018, 01:51:54 pm »

Thanks for the sermon, preacher man. It's a sport. Get over yourself.

You're entitled to your own perspective, - - and I'm entitled to mine.

It is not only "preacher men" who believe in ethical and moral conduct.  You are correct, however, in your assumption (however crassly worded) that I've had my say on this issue, - - and that it's time for me to zip it and defer to others' posted opinion opportunities. 

I sincerely apologize to one and all whom I may have offended or aggravated in this thread.
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Razor1997

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2018, 01:54:05 pm »

Don’t force a ball and get it picked.

The guy who made the pick was one of the players who was supposed to be suspended.  Just sayin.
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PonderinHog

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2018, 04:03:49 pm »

Free tattoos ???
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HogPharmer

Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2018, 04:36:17 pm »

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Pigsknuckles

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2018, 02:30:22 pm »

Don’t force a ball and get it picked.

Yeah, that too. I left that out because some here are still real sensitive about any Mallett criticism. :)
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LRRandy

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2018, 06:25:32 pm »

The guy who made the pick was one of the players who was supposed to be suspended.  Just sayin.
not the same player, but it was the same  play with the defensive end dropping into coverage that was pick 6ed against Bama on the way waxing them in the home game Sugar bowl in '14. Offensive play was read and defenses executed perfectly both times.
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redeye

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2018, 07:08:17 pm »

I've always found the "vacating a win" idea somewhat puzzling. While I understand that a program shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the rules, it makes little sense that in certain situations the team(s) who lost as a result of the winning team's infraction(s) shouldn't necessarily be "compensated". For instance, in the case of a team utilizing an ineligible player(s) or being found guilty of using a player(s) that shouldn't have participated for whatever reason(s) the team who suffered as a result of the infraction should be awarded the victory. And while for some that might seem unjust, it's no more so than a "slap on the wrist" the offending team receives now by merely vacating a win (or wins). IMO in order to serve as a stronger deterent to further future bad behavior the offending program should be made to show an actual LOSS, not a vacated victory.

What you're describing is a forfeit and it's what they used into the 90's, when the NCAA decided that the losing team doesn't deserve the win, so they began using vacates, instead.  As LZH noted, Alabama had to forfeit a game to Arkansas in the early 90's and I think they later had to vacate one after the change.  Before the change, there were no vacates and now there are no forfeits.  I didn't agree with it when the change was made and I still don't today.
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Jean-Luc Pigard

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Re: What does vacating a win after the fact accomplish?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2018, 09:53:15 am »

Didn't Alabama have to forfeit a game to us back in the 90's? I think it may have been Ford's first full year. They drilled us on the field but Iirc they had to forfeit the game. That took us from 4-6-1 to 5-5-1. These days a .500 record gets you a bowl game, but problem is that by the time the NCAA decides to do anything about it, it's years down the road and the players/team doesn't really benefit at all.

Yes, we hold a 3-43 victory over Alabama in 1993.  That's how it's officially listed.
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