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Author Topic: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?  (Read 4715 times)

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allhogislost

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2018, 09:16:23 am »

I am old enough to know it can be better. Stop reinforcing this poor poor Arkansas.  We need a change in our ways of thinking. We need positive expectations. If you ever give in to this is the best we can do you might as well quit. Try selling this to Eagles fans no championship since 1960 I believe.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2018, 09:20:42 am »

I am old enough to know it can be better. Stop reinforcing this poor poor Arkansas.  We need a change in our ways of thinking. We need positive expectations. If you ever give in to this is the best we can do you might as well quit. Try selling this to Eagles fans no championship since 1960 I believe.

News Flash: the NFL, a league with 32 teams and a hard salary cap, is to say the least nothing like the landscape of college football.

It is highly unlikely you're going to compete for a championship with a team full of 3 stars. I'd like to see a Championship in my lifetime. That can happen with a solid coach and getting better players.
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allhogislost

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2018, 09:29:36 am »

News flash. I am fan short for fanatic if I choose to believe and be positive that is my prerogative. If you want tell everyone this is as good as it gets do not expect better that is yours.  Must be a miserable life.
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allhogislost

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2018, 09:30:47 am »

News Flash: the NFL, a league with 32 teams and a hard salary cap, is to say the least nothing like the landscape of college football.

It is highly unlikely you're going to compete for a championship with a team full of 3 stars. I'd like to see a Championship in my lifetime. That can happen with a solid coach and getting better players.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2018, 09:37:25 am »

News flash. I am fan short for fanatic if I choose to believe and be positive that is my prerogative. If you want tell everyone this is as good as it gets do not expect better that is yours.  Must be a miserable life.

Love the Hogs, but I don't let them run my life. I agree, I'd be pretty miserable if I let let them run my life because they are 95-120 in conference games the past 25 years.
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2018, 09:49:14 am »

News flash. I am fan short for fanatic if I choose to believe and be positive that is my prerogative. If you want tell everyone this is as good as it gets do not expect better that is yours.  Must be a miserable life.

and yet another decade+ old acct that pretty much disappeared from the time bb was hired until Dec of 2017. So who's alter ego are you?

No one is saying this is as good as it gets, but it is as good as it gets without getting better players and lots of them.
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JimmyJohnsonsBoat

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2018, 10:04:01 am »

Love the Hogs, but I don't let them run my life. I agree, I'd be pretty miserable if I let let them run my life because they are 95-120 in conference games the past 25 years.

Your post count says otherwise
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2018, 02:38:37 pm »

Your post count says otherwise

and your post count tells me this is not your 1st acct here
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JimmyJohnsonsBoat

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2018, 02:59:21 pm »

and your post count tells me this is not your 1st acct here

Wrong
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Al Boarland

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2018, 04:10:02 pm »

Which means what? It's all about player development

No, itís half about player development. The other half is having more talent and depth than the team youíre playing.
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RockyMtnHog

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2018, 06:27:03 pm »

I would rate a Walk-On as a 2 Star or below.  We've had a few walk-ons that developed into All-Americans.  Brandon Burlsworth comes to mind.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2018, 11:14:36 am »

What do you think of recruiting rankings?

http://www.nwahomepage.com/sports/razorback-nation/is-arkansas-a-3-star-school/950293278

2013 through 2017, assigning a flat 5 points for a 5 star and 4 for a 4, 3 for a 3 and naturally 2 points for a 2 star or below that were actually signed by each SEC team, taking into account how many were signed by each team over that period of time, here is the average for all SEC teams over those 5 years of recruiting classes.

              Signed        5       4       3      2 and Below     Total Points     Avg P/Player         Wins (2016-2017)
ALA           130         27      74     28            1                  517               3.98                          27
LSU           128          9       73     44            2                  473               3.70                          17
GEO           134         11      65     56            2                  487               3.63                          21
AUB           127         13      55     57            2                  460               3.62                          18
A&M          130          7       51     71            1                  454               3.49                          15
FLA           121          5       44     71            1                  416               3.44                          13
TEN           136          2       49     82            3                  458               3.37                          13
MISS         127          7       35     80            5                  425               3.35                          11
USC          125          0       33     90            2                  406               3.25                          15
ARK           122          1       24     92            5                  387               3.17                          11
MSU          118          2       20     91            5                  373               3.16                          15
KEN           120          0       19     99            2                  377               3.14                          14
MIZ           118          1       10    104           3                  363               3.08                           11
VAN           110          0        9     90           11                 328               2.98                           11

So is Arkansas a 3 Star School? Probably. More so than some, less so than others. Th vast majority are in the 3 star (average) range though Alabama is as close to being a 4 Star School as you can be.
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12247

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2018, 11:19:14 am »

A few years ago I looked into this a bit.  Actually, we are not a 3 star school, coming in at that time as a 2.87 star school and I have no reason nor have I researched it to know where we are at now.

I also believe there is a reason for Arkansas and likely other schools maybe getting more mileage out of  2 stars, walkons, and no rating players versus their ratings.  When a player is nationally rated, all the coaches know, all the coaches pretty much accept the rating.  In many cases the lower rated players may get for more actual research because the HC knows he is picking that player from thousands available and he will be held solely responsible if that player is a huge failure or causes team trouble.  If Mr. 4 or 5 star fails, everyone can point out the 92 offers from all the top 100 rated teams.  If that 2 star or no star you gave a schollie to fails or worse, misbehaves, its all on that coach.

Also, I would wager that most marginal players that do end up with a chance, mentally appreciate that opportunity more.  They work harder in general, they've always had to since talent isn't their long suit.  Mr. Great knows he can coast and likely still get by and due to laws of average, many do coast.  Also, for the first time in Mr. Greats life, he may not be the star of the team or even the 10th best player on the team.  That is a hard bite to swallow, while Mr. small talent is busting his ass to just make the travel squad or any squad and accepts that its bust ass or no banana.  I feel certain that there is at least dozens of never signed players out there that would, if given the opportunity, make the starting lineup for many schools in the top 25.
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twistitup

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2018, 11:25:15 am »

12247, good post....we also forget that Mr. Walkon might have been Mr. Troublemaker when he was 13-17 - he may have gotten injured his soph year and scouting reports missed that...many 2 star guys and walkons have a story that goes along with why they ended up in that position. Bad decision, bad grades, bad luck, injuries, etc.-can crush your chances of getting a scholarship...these guys end up walkons.

Some of them 'see the light' and change their ways - or they heal up from old injuries...either way, they can end up being some of your best players.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2018, 11:36:42 am »

A few years ago I looked into this a bit.  Actually, we are not a 3 star school, coming in at that time as a 2.87 star school and I have no reason nor have I researched it to know where we are at now.


That's not what we are now. Just look above.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2018, 11:44:14 am »

85 percent of signees nation wide are 3 stars
this is what Hogville refuses to understand. It's also why I point out everytime I see a 4* kid called a 3*. People are so lazy. They wont even check the other services. And they say dumb ass darn like, "The composite on 247 is the most accurate". No, the composite average just grows the 3* pool from 75% to 90%. Stars are stupid; a much better measure is their actual rating. an 81 3* and a 89 3* arent even really that close. Yet, HV still calls an 89 a 3*. Even when 247 and espn have them as 4*s. B/c, "The more accurate composite rating said 3*". ppssshhht.

It's what-ever. To me it is like a litmus to to see if you know anything about recruiting.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2018, 11:47:55 am »

A few years ago I looked into this a bit.  Actually, we are not a 3 star school, coming in at that time as a 2.87 star school and I have no reason nor have I researched it to know where we are at now.

I also believe there is a reason for Arkansas and likely other schools maybe getting more mileage out of  2 stars, walkons, and no rating players versus their ratings.  When a player is nationally rated, all the coaches know, all the coaches pretty much accept the rating.  In many cases the lower rated players may get for more actual research because the HC knows he is picking that player from thousands available and he will be held solely responsible if that player is a huge failure or causes team trouble.  If Mr. 4 or 5 star fails, everyone can point out the 92 offers from all the top 100 rated teams.  If that 2 star or no star you gave a schollie to fails or worse, misbehaves, its all on that coach.

Also, I would wager that most marginal players that do end up with a chance, mentally appreciate that opportunity more.  They work harder in general, they've always had to since talent isn't their long suit.  Mr. Great knows he can coast and likely still get by and due to laws of average, many do coast.  Also, for the first time in Mr. Greats life, he may not be the star of the team or even the 10th best player on the team.  That is a hard bite to swallow, while Mr. small talent is busting his ass to just make the travel squad or any squad and accepts that its bust ass or no banana.  I feel certain that there is at least dozens of never signed players out there that would, if given the opportunity, make the starting lineup for many schools in the top 25.
READ THE THREAD, Man.

Arkansas- 3.17  THAT MEANS A SCHOOL OF 3 and 4*s.

WHere they hell do you people keep getting this 2* crap from?
When do we EVER sign 2*s???
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HenduHog

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2018, 02:33:43 pm »

Yes.  Yes we are.  With Morris as the coach we are closer to a 2 star school.

Ok. Let me make this clear to you. Gus Malazahn isn't coming.

He gave us a royal screwing by using us as a tool to get a raise.

GUS IS NOT COMING!!!!!
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2018, 02:50:45 pm »

I stand by my research. I only considered Arkansas since that's who I cover.

Yes, they are something to talk about. Because for every Hunter Henry that knocks it out of the park, there's an Anthony Oden who flames out. Darius Winston didn't play at a level most people expect out of a 5 star. Jonathan Luigs played at a level higher than most people expect out of a 2 star. Coaches and players determine what the player does while they are on campus, not what they were rated.

What's been our over all record during the timeframe of your research?
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2018, 02:53:49 pm »

It depends. If I play the right way, I'll be able to beat you the majority of the time. The point of the article is that stars aren't everything. Coaching and the player themselves have more to do with success than their star rating.

Except the hands aren't played in a vacuum.  If he also plays the right way, then he beats you more often than not.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2018, 03:00:02 pm »

Wasn't Ken Hamlin a 2 star ?

Probably so.  Now, name all of our historical 2 stars that were drafted early in the second round or better?  After that, tell me which ones played at UA at the same time.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2018, 04:45:07 pm »

I stand by my research. I only considered Arkansas since that's who I cover.

Yes, they are something to talk about. Because for every Hunter Henry that knocks it out of the park, there's an Anthony Oden who flames out. Darius Winston didn't play at a level most people expect out of a 5 star. Jonathan Luigs played at a level higher than most people expect out of a 2 star. Coaches and players determine what the player does while they are on campus, not what they were rated.

There was a more famous Hog wh was a 0 that makes your point as well. He did pretty well and was drafted to the NFL. An award is named after him too. They even made a movie about him.

But I cannot remember his name. 😉
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2018, 04:48:51 pm »

This is what Iíve said over and over and what lots of people just donít get.

You canít say any single player has more potential purely on the merit of s star rating. Of course not.

However you can say, definitively, when looking at overall recruiting over time that higher ranked recruits based on star rankings perform better and as a result are more often drafted on the whole. Its an easy matter of going back and looking at the data in aggregate.

People get distracted by the 2 star feel good story exceptions and want to use them to refute the value of ratings but that misses the point completely.  It ignores the ocean of 2 star recruits that were the norm. Its making a judgement about the entire forrest by plucking out one special tree.

 But that isnít what the article is about. Do you post often about topics not related to the thread? The article and post is about the HOGS.  No one else.
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twistitup

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2018, 04:59:01 pm »

2013 through 2017, assigning a flat 5 points for a 5 star and 4 for a 4, 3 for a 3 and naturally 2 points for a 2 star or below that were actually signed by each SEC team, taking into account how many were signed by each team over that period of time, here is the average for all SEC teams over those 5 years of recruiting classes.

              Signed        5       4       3      2 and Below     Total Points     Avg P/Player         Wins (2016-2017)
ALA           130         27      74     28            1                  517               3.98                          27
LSU           128          9       73     44            2                  473               3.70                          17
GEO           134         11      65     56            2                  487               3.63                          21
AUB           127         13      55     57            2                  460               3.62                          18
A&M          130          7       51     71            1                  454               3.49                          15
FLA           121          5       44     71            1                  416               3.44                          13
TEN           136          2       49     82            3                  458               3.37                          13
MISS         127          7       35     80            5                  425               3.35                          11
USC          125          0       33     90            2                  406               3.25                          15
ARK           122          1       24     92            5                  387               3.17                          11
MSU          118          2       20     91            5                  373               3.16                          15
KEN           120          0       19     99            2                  377               3.14                          14
MIZ           118          1       10    104           3                  363               3.08                           11
VAN           110          0        9     90           11                 328               2.98                           11

So is Arkansas a 3 Star School? Probably. More so than some, less so than others. Th vast majority are in the 3 star (average) range though Alabama is as close to being a 4 Star School as you can be.

you don't SIGN two star guys most of the time...they walk on and earn scholies- but they are on the 105 man roster. They improve w time and turn into great ball players.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2018, 06:38:25 pm »

you don't SIGN two star guys most of the time...they walk on and earn scholies- but they are on the 105 man roster. They improve w time and turn into great ball players.

Well in these cases, each and every one of them were officially signed and not PWO's or regular WO's. Not sure why you even responded when it is clear that we are talking about two different things.
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twistitup

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2018, 07:44:29 pm »

Well in these cases, each and every one of them were officially signed and not PWO's or regular WO's. Not sure why you even responded when it is clear that we are talking about two different things.

My apologies Musk.

I'm a little drunk.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2018, 07:51:18 pm »

My apologies Musk.

I'm a little drunk.

Take care, amigo.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2018, 07:44:54 am »

From 1989 - 2000 Georgia averaged about 7 wins per season.  Thatís recent history and three star numbers in my book. Clemson went twenty years from 1991 to 2010 averaging about 7 wins per season. Thatís recent history in the weak ACC. Sounds like three star to me.

Ha. Way to cherry pick years under each program's worst coach in the past 3 decades.  Neither are 3 star programs.  If the Hogs rattle off five straight ten win seasons our 11 year average will be 7.5. See how that works? 

Alabama averaged 7.25 wins from 1993-2007. I guess they were also a three star school.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 08:05:28 am by steveaustin69 »
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2018, 08:37:08 am »


From 1989 - 2000 Georgia averaged about 7 wins per season.  Thatís recent history and three star numbers in my book. Clemson went twenty years from 1991 to 2010 averaging about 7 wins per season. Thatís recent history in the weak ACC. Sounds like three star to me.

Those programs aren't winning now with 3 stars.  They're doing it with 4 and 5 stars.  And we aren't in the same league as those programs from a geographical/recruiting stand point.  And we sure ain't in the same league with UGA in history and tradition.  Simply not an apples to apples comparison.
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12247

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2018, 01:13:15 pm »

Pig---Pokey,  I did mention in my post that it was research from a few years ago. You know, I could see how you missed that as it was the very first sentence.  I will further say that Muskogee's post was right above mine and I had not seen it before I typed and posted mine.  Because Muskogee actually did the research currently, it made my info less valuable.

Houston Nutt used to sign 2 star players to answer your question.  I also remember Petrino taking 1 or 2.  My memory is that my research was done on some of the Houston Nutt years.

Muskogee's research would indicate that Bret actually improved recruiting here (star wise) just a bit.  Also, it would show that Nutt did more winning with less talent than Bret did with slightly more talent.  That could be the perceived difference in quality of schedule between the two eras.
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12247

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2018, 01:33:01 pm »

By the way, Muskogee has clearly shown that within the recent past, Arkansas is a 3 star school.  Thread answered unless someone can prove Muskogee wrong.

Muskogee's post does bring up side points though.  Most of those folks with higher starred players are the same folks that have pinned a majority of the losses we've had on us.  Of the top 6 listed SEC teams, 4 of those are also the teams that have had the most staring success in college football over the past 10 to 15 years.  And of those 6 teams, well they are all usually in the top 15 of recruiting ratings every year.  So directly and indirectly, stars do matter and they matter a lot.  And last but not least, Arkansas plays 4 of the top 5 of those teams every year.  So it could be said, you are either STARRED UP or chasing STARRED UP every year.  You know, like you have speed or you are chasing speed every year. 
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hawgfan4life

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2018, 12:37:55 pm »

Based on statistics, AR should be glad when the 4 and 5 star athletes leave Arkansas because very few of them produce anything more than very mediocre results over the life of their time at the other school.  Statistically, our in-state results for 4 and 5 star recruits we keep home is significantly better concerning overall production.  Therefore, statistically speaking, Arkansas fans shouldn't care too much about the 4 and 5 star athletes that leave because they rarely produce at other schools.  They should be more excited about the 3 star athletes that stay home, because many of them turn into great players for the program.  All of this is statistical fact.
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Swestwill66

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2018, 12:49:18 pm »

Probably so.  Now, name all of our historical 2 stars that were drafted early in the second round or better?  After that, tell me which ones played at UA at the same time.

Good gosh man, Ken Hamlin just came to mind ! I am far too lazy to do that research!!
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2018, 03:01:15 pm »

you don't SIGN two star guys most of the time...they walk on and earn scholies- but they are on the 105 man roster. They improve w time and turn into great ball players.

By the way, from 2002-2007 Nutt signed 21-2 stars or below, 2008-2012 BP/JLS signed an incredible 43-2 stars or below and Bielema, from 2013-2017 signed 17-2 stars or below, according to 24/7 Sports.

So, with regard to all of the star classifications from 2002-2017 Arkansas has signed 4-5 stars (0.9% of total players signed over that period of time), 63-4 stars (14.5%), 286-3 stars (65.9%) and 81-2 stars or below (18.7%) out of the 434 recorded to have signed. Now obviously some of those never made it to campus, some transferred and some never saw the field, but the majority stuck it out.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2018, 05:58:40 pm »

Probably so.  Now, name all of our historical 2 stars that were drafted early in the second round or better?  After that, tell me which ones played at UA at the same time.

Rivals doesn't go back (on their site anyway) that far and 247 doesn't show any star rankings for 1999 (the year that Hamlin was signed) though I remember Gary Brashears supposedly being a highly touted "can't miss" who definitely, missed here and at Tulsa (never played a down?) and at least one other place as I recall. I'd love to see those rankings that far back, but I can't find them.
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liljo

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2018, 03:52:56 pm »

You said 1950ís and recent memory. I just responded to your parameters. Arkansas sux in recent memory, distant memory and all in between, but weíre stuck with them.

Ya momma just didn't love you, did she... ::)
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COACHINTEXAS

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2018, 09:24:30 pm »

It may have been in the past, but that is about to change. Coach Morris is a grand slam in my opinion! Iím so excited about the future and Texas HS coaches will get to know who the UA is once again.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2018, 11:54:43 pm »

So when do we get our SEC championship with the three stars? Asking for a friend
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