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Author Topic: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?  (Read 4697 times)

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gdumont

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Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« on: February 06, 2018, 04:09:44 pm »

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bphi11ips

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 06:43:09 am »

Good article except for the clickbait title.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 07:50:13 am »

Maybe we should become a two star program considering the percentage of those making it to the NFL is much higher than three stars.
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jimmur74

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 08:50:14 am »

85 percent of signees nation wide are 3 stars
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Karma

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 09:31:02 am »

Maybe we should become a two star program considering the percentage of those making it to the NFL is much higher than three stars.
That is categorically false. The odds of a 3 star eventually going to the NFL is MUCH higher than a 2 star.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 09:42:54 am »

Over a large sample size it matters.  Saying getting five stars doesn't matter because of Darius Winston is ridiculous. 17% of five stars from 2002-2008 were drafted in the first round. Half are drafted period. These are usually program changing players.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 09:52:21 am »

With the coaching upheaval the past 10 years!
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 10:56:11 am »

Over a large sample size it matters.  Saying getting five stars doesn't matter because of Darius Winston is ridiculous. 17% of five stars from 2002-2008 were drafted in the first round. Half are drafted period. These are usually program changing players.

I'm not saying that five stars don't matter. I'm saying the statistics of Arkansas' history since 2002 (when the recruiting rankings go back to) point to the fact that 5 stars aren't surefire bets, just like a 0 star isn't a surefire failure. It's about the player themselves and the coaching. Some players are underrated coming out of high school/juco while some are overrated
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MJ2

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 11:14:14 am »

Not sure.   We seem to have difficulty keeping top talent in state each year, but hopefully that will change.    Ya gotta win at home before you can win "on the road".
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 11:16:29 am »

That is categorically false. The odds of a 3 star eventually going to the NFL is MUCH higher than a 2 star.

Obviously some of you can't recognize a joke when you see it.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 11:20:04 am »

I'm not saying that five stars don't matter. I'm saying the statistics of Arkansas' history since 2002 (when the recruiting rankings go back to) point to the fact that 5 stars aren't surefire bets, just like a 0 star isn't a surefire failure. It's about the player themselves and the coaching. Some players are underrated coming out of high school/juco while some are overrated

Higher rated recruits turn out to be better players than lower rated recruits more times than not.

Look at the rankings year in, year out. Most teams towards the top compete for championships.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 11:20:39 am »

Obviously some of you can't recognize a bad, unfunny, and terrible joke when you see it.

FIFY
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2018, 11:30:47 am »

Higher rated recruits turn out to be better players than lower rated recruits more times than not.

Look at the rankings year in, year out. Most teams towards the top compete for championships.

I only focused on Arkansas
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2018, 11:36:36 am »

I only focused on Arkansas

And, even when only considering Arkansas, my point stands.

The better ranked players went to the NFL at a higher percentage.
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razorsharptusk

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2018, 11:43:43 am »

Get them a 3.  Coach and develop them to 4 and 5.
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2018, 11:47:40 am »

And, even when only considering Arkansas, my point stands.

The better ranked players went to the NFL at a higher percentage.

Not always. 2 stars get to the NFL at a higher rate than 3 stars and make All-SEC at a higher rate than 4 stars. Maybe in 10 years the numbers will be different, but that's where they stand as of right now. This isn't my opinion, these are the facts
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2018, 11:54:26 am »

Not always. 2 stars get to the NFL at a higher rate than 3 stars and make All-SEC at a higher rate than 4 stars. Maybe in 10 years the numbers will be different, but that's where they stand as of right now. This isn't my opinion, these are the facts

Fair enough.

Those stats wouldn't hold true if more than Arkansas was considered. We both know that.

End of the day stars and rankings matter; your article indicates they are just something to talk about. They are a pretty good indicator of future success.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2018, 11:55:43 am »

That is categorically false. The odds of a 3 star eventually going to the NFL is MUCH higher than a 2 star.

As it relates to Arkansas football since 2002, it's not categorically false at all.

33.3% of 2* players from Arkansas make the NFL. 13.5% of 3* players from Arkansas make the NFL.

Last I checked, 33.3% > 13.5%.

The article is about Arkansas recruits. It has nothing to do with recruits nationally. Reading comprehension in this thread is lacking.

Sure, viewing this on a national scale would result in different figures. But that's not what this article does or is trying to do.
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2018, 12:01:12 pm »

Fair enough.

Those stats wouldn't hold true if more than Arkansas was considered. We both know that.

End of the day stars and rankings matter; your article indicates they are just something to talk about. They are a pretty good indicator of future success.

I stand by my research. I only considered Arkansas since that's who I cover.

Yes, they are something to talk about. Because for every Hunter Henry that knocks it out of the park, there's an Anthony Oden who flames out. Darius Winston didn't play at a level most people expect out of a 5 star. Jonathan Luigs played at a level higher than most people expect out of a 2 star. Coaches and players determine what the player does while they are on campus, not what they were rated.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2018, 12:06:07 pm »

I stand by my research. I only considered Arkansas since that's who I cover.

Yes, they are something to talk about. Because for every Hunter Henry that knocks it out of the park, there's an Anthony Oden who flames out. Darius Winston didn't play at a level most people expect out of a 5 star. Jonathan Luigs played at a level higher than most people expect out of a 2 star. Coaches and players determine what the player does while they are on campus, not what they were rated.

Coach em up, try harder, and be better: the Razorback way.
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Karma

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2018, 02:20:25 pm »

Obviously some of you can't recognize a joke when you see it.
Or it's a bad joke.
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Karma

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2018, 02:21:36 pm »

I stand by my research. I only considered Arkansas since that's who I cover.

Yes, they are something to talk about. Because for every Hunter Henry that knocks it out of the park, there's an Anthony Oden who flames out. Darius Winston didn't play at a level most people expect out of a 5 star. Jonathan Luigs played at a level higher than most people expect out of a 2 star. Coaches and players determine what the player does while they are on campus, not what they were rated.
let's play 10 hands of poker:
You get 2/7 every hand; I get AK.
You will likely win some of the 10 hands, but I will likely win far more.
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TNRazorbacker

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2018, 02:32:48 pm »

Over a large sample size it matters.  Saying getting five stars doesn't matter because of Darius Winston is ridiculous. 17% of five stars from 2002-2008 were drafted in the first round. Half are drafted period. These are usually program changing players.

This is what Iíve said over and over and what lots of people just donít get.

You canít say any single player has more potential purely on the merit of s star rating. Of course not.

However you can say, definitively, when looking at overall recruiting over time that higher ranked recruits based on star rankings perform better and as a result are more often drafted on the whole. Its an easy matter of going back and looking at the data in aggregate.

People get distracted by the 2 star feel good story exceptions and want to use them to refute the value of ratings but that misses the point completely.  It ignores the ocean of 2 star recruits that were the norm. Its making a judgement about the entire forrest by plucking out one special tree.
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2018, 05:27:35 pm »

let's play 10 hands of poker:
You get 2/7 every hand; I get AK.
You will likely win some of the 10 hands, but I will likely win far more.

It depends. If I play the right way, I'll be able to beat you the majority of the time. The point of the article is that stars aren't everything. Coaching and the player themselves have more to do with success than their star rating.
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HeyHogs

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2018, 06:11:18 pm »

Yes.  Yes we are.  With Morris as the coach we are closer to a 2 star school.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2018, 06:14:28 pm »

Yes.  Yes we are.  With Morris as the coach we are closer to a 2 star school.

Did you read the article? In our school's history, 2* have turned out pretty damn solid so...maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Nice attempt at being condescending. Too bad you completely whiffed here.
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Swestwill66

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2018, 06:17:55 pm »

Not always. 2 stars get to the NFL at a higher rate than 3 stars and make All-SEC at a higher rate than 4 stars. Maybe in 10 years the numbers will be different, but that's where they stand as of right now. This isn't my opinion, these are the facts

Wasn't Ken Hamlin a 2 star ?
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gdumont

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2018, 07:09:56 pm »

Wasn't Ken Hamlin a 2 star ?

I only went back to 2002, since that's the 1st full year of 247sports.com rankings
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2018, 07:10:12 pm »

Arkansas since joining the SEC hasnít had much success to be able to build up a higher recruiting base.  We are a pretty average team since 1992.
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BornaHog

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2018, 09:57:35 pm »

I do know 1 thing in that as a lifelong HOG fan, I would prefer a 2* from Ar over a 2* from anywhere else, a 3* from Ar over any other 3*, same for a 4* or 5*. I believe any star player from Ar will give more to the team just because of tradition and the pride of being a HOG. There are plenty of times that we could get an equivalent player from Ar but take one from out of state but I would prefer the Ar kid. You can say all you want to about a legacy player but those guys will give everything they have and more to uphold the Hog traditions and not disappoint their families than a player that is here just because it was his best offer or because another team decided to blue shirt them. Also those players will leave just as soon as some agent gets in their ear telling them how good they are and that they will go high in the draft, even if they won't. I believe the want to is just a little higher if it is your home state, but that is just my opinion and Right or wrong it is what I believe. GHG
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2018, 10:30:54 pm »

I do know 1 thing in that as a lifelong HOG fan, I would prefer a 2* from Ar over a 2* from anywhere else, a 3* from Ar over any other 3*, same for a 4* or 5*. I believe any star player from Ar will give more to the team just because of tradition and the pride of being a HOG. There are plenty of times that we could get an equivalent player from Ar but take one from out of state but I would prefer the Ar kid. You can say all you want to about a legacy player but those guys will give everything they have and more to uphold the Hog traditions and not disappoint their families than a player that is here just because it was his best offer or because another team decided to blue shirt them. Also those players will leave just as soon as some agent gets in their ear telling them how good they are and that they will go high in the draft, even if they won't. I believe the want to is just a little higher if it is your home state, but that is just my opinion and Right or wrong it is what I believe. GHG

No, just no

As for the OP and recruiting rankings, Outside of the elite teams, the next 30-40 teams are "3 star" schools. The key for them is when they do et higher ranked players they have to be game changers. If Bama signs a 5 star rb or wr and he is a bust, they just plug in the next guy. If the Hogs get a 5 start rb or wr and he is a bust, his replacement is probably a 3 star, and when he faces the elite teams he just does not win the war.

There are very good college players that, for a variety of reasons, just do not make it in the nfl.
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HoginMemphis

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2018, 08:39:57 am »

What do you think of recruiting rankings?

http://www.nwahomepage.com/sports/razorback-nation/is-arkansas-a-3-star-school/950293278
Recruiting rankings are accurate in that Arkansas' recruiting classes rarely rank in the top 25 in the country and we rarely finish a season in the top 25 programs.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2018, 12:39:28 pm »

Recruiting rankings are accurate in that Arkansas' recruiting classes rarely rank in the top 25 in the country and we rarely finish a season in the top 25 programs.

 I think we usually have a recruiting class somewhere around 25.
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2018, 12:56:58 pm »

I think we usually have a recruiting class somewhere around 25.

and the issue there is that 25 is usually still only 10th or so in the SEC.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2018, 01:02:10 pm »

and the issue there is that 25 is usually still only 10th or so in the SEC.

Bingo. Talent deficit relative to peers.
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2018, 01:22:59 pm »

Bingo. Talent deficit relative to peers.

25th this year would have still been 9th in the sec and 5th in the secw, 2 spots ahead of msu.
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2018, 01:30:17 pm »

Get them a 3.  Coach and develop them to 4 and 5.

Get them a 4 and 5. Coach can compete for a title.
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gohogs1969

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2018, 02:23:08 pm »

3 plus school and develop
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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2018, 02:25:33 pm »

3 plus school and develop

Back to this again? Back to the idea that you can turn lesser talent into a winner? If your opponents CONSISTENTLY sign better players they will CONSISTENTLY have better teams, and more times than not the team with better players is going to win.
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Hoggish1

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2018, 04:10:51 pm »

Any kid that goes to a school saying look at me I'm a 4 or 5* is headed for a fall.  Once you get somewhere the stars are erased and they all start over.  It's the ones who have the want to that profit from the how to...
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go hogues

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2018, 05:24:10 pm »

Weíve generally finished in the bottom half of the SEC recruiting rankings and generally finish in the bottom half of the standings at seasonís end.
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OS2 (SW) Razor Back

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2018, 07:27:23 pm »

When someone on here says stars don't matter, this place bugs out.
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blu

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2018, 08:55:23 pm »

In response to the OP, we are except in certain years when we have special talent in state - 2019 appears to be one of those years.  And I won't say stars don't matter, cause i don't want anyone to bug out, but I do think stars are slightly over-rated, especially by certain posters on this forum.

Many 3 Stars are starting and flourishing at the UA and other institutions. Mizzou has made a case for doing more with less. if they can, we sure as heck can.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2018, 05:55:13 am »

When someone on here says stars don't matter, this place bugs out.

Probably because they do and people that say they donít are justifying not recruiting at the level of the teams we want to beat.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2018, 07:21:13 am »

Arkansas is a three star school and always has been. There was a time when Georgia was much closer to a three star school than what they are now. Clemson was a three star school for quite a while, but they are riding high now. Ole Miss was a three star school, got tired of it and tried to cheat their way to the next level...didnít work. I am encouraged that Morris believes in speed and recognizes that we donít have much of it. If he does nothing but recruit 3 stars that can really move we will be better than we were. Maybe the new strength coach will pay dividends. The one we had was not getting it done.

In the 1950s? What? You're lying to yourself if you think UGA is a three star school or has been in recent memory.

Aside from some bad years under Tommy West Clemson has been much more successful than Arkansas since 1980, even if you exclude the Deshaun Watson years. They are not and have not been a 3 star school.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:32:47 am by steveaustin69 »
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JimmyJohnsonsBoat

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2018, 08:11:16 am »

Arkansas is a three star school and always has been. There was a time when Georgia was much closer to a three star school than what they are now. Clemson was a three star school for quite a while, but they are riding high now. Ole Miss was a three star school, got tired of it and tried to cheat their way to the next level...didnít work. I am encouraged that Morris believes in speed and recognizes that we donít have much of it. If he does nothing but recruit 3 stars that can really move we will be better than we were. Maybe the new strength coach will pay dividends. The one we had was not getting it done.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

"Believes in speed" makes it sound like it's big foot or some mythological creature. I think everyone knows speed exists, we just didn't have it.
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allhogislost

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2018, 08:37:07 am »

Do you guys get payed to make the hogs look bad. Quit wallowing in all this negativity. I got to ask how does this drivel get stickied are you really even a fan.  ???
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twistitup

Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2018, 08:42:27 am »

Not always. 2 stars get to the NFL at a higher rate than 3 stars and make All-SEC at a higher rate than 4 stars.

Which means what? It's all about player development
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2018, 08:46:26 am »

Do you guys get payed to make the hogs look bad. Quit wallowing in all this negativity. I got to ask how does this drivel get stickied are you really even a fan.  ???

No, I don't get PAID to get on Hogville. Yes, I donate and watch every game I'm able. The delusion of the fan base gets old; it's not that hard to inform yourself.

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hogsanity

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Re: Is Arkansas a 3 Star School?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2018, 08:51:00 am »

Stars don't matter, players matter. But the better players usually have more stars, and the teams with more of the better players win more. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is going to take a group of players that the ratings services give 2 and 3 stars to and win the SEC, not going to happen.
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