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Author Topic: Mike will retire here  (Read 2662 times)

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Breems

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2018, 09:39:58 pm »

Ben Howland MSU's coach, Will Wade, Avery Johnson, and Mike White will probably make Anderson "retire" before he wants to.

May need to also add Billy Kennedy and Frank Martin to that list.

Kennedy isn't exactly tearing it up. Their fans want him gone.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2018, 10:57:01 am »

What is good for the program long term is to hire the best coach possible and WIN.  Winning brings better recruits.  Winning sells more tickets and makes more money.  Winning breeds winning.

I think you should be put in charge of recruiting that great coach since you think it so easy. Firing Anderson sends the wrong message- letting him retire here, even if there is some behind the scenes pressure and extra money handed out, ends the Richardson era on a positive note and allows everyone to celebrate the good things Richardson did here as a part of the program's legacy and forget the nastiness that, at this point, defined the era.

This isn't about "nostalgia" (wow that word misses the point by a mile) it is about creating a story, mythical it's true, that makes everything upbeat and positive i.e. the great Nolan Richardson led the Arkansas Razorbacks to a promised land no other coach here has ever reached- there was a little unpleasantness at the end, a bump in the road really, but it all got fixed when his trusted assistant Mike Anderson agreed to return home to coach the team and, after a fairly successful tenure, retired as a lifetime Razorback.

 Run him out of town like the fans have every other coach in recent times and the investment made up to this point in that story is lost. The new story then is about a bunch of uppity, delusional fans and BOTs who think they are better than they are and who won't accept reality. As I said before, in that case "wash, rinse. repeat". But since you seem to have a plan to circumvent that scenario I suggest it be turned over to you to fix.
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Kevin

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2018, 10:58:39 am »

I think you should be put in charge of recruiting that great coach since you think it so easy. Firing Anderson sends the wrong message- letting him retire here, even if there is some behind the scenes pressure and extra money handed out, ends the Richardson era on a positive note and allows everyone to celebrate the good things Richardson did here as a part of the program's legacy and forget the nastiness that, at this point, defined the era.

This isn't about "nostalgia" (wow that word misses the point by a mile) it is about creating a story, mythical it's true, that makes everything upbeat and positive i.e. the great Nolan Richardson led the Arkansas Razorbacks to a promised land no other coach here has ever reached- there was a little unpleasantness at the end, a bump in the road really, but it all got fixed when his trusted assistant Mike Anderson agreed to return home to coach the team and, after a fairly successful tenure, retired as a lifetime Razorback.

 Run him out of town like the fans have every other coach in recent times and the investment made up to this point in that story is lost. The new story then is about a bunch of uppity, delusional fans and BOTs who think they are better than they are and who won't accept reality. As I said before, in that case "wash, rinse. repeat". But since you seem to have a plan to circumvent that scenario I suggest it be turned over to you to fix.

bull
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HossHog

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2018, 11:02:05 am »

Mike doing the best he can , it is on his players to do better.
This is ridiculous, wins and losses are always on the coach. He’s the one running the program.
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Jim Harris

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2018, 11:14:24 am »

I don't believe your story at all.

1) The extension was given last November
2) The current AD wasn't even hired yet when it was given
3) How could sellouts come into play in November? Before the season even started?

I think what he's referring to is the BOT OK'd the contract extension in January after the run of sellouts. The contract had been sitting awaiting BOT approval for some time.
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UNCLE BACK

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2018, 01:02:12 pm »

I think what he's referring to is the BOT OK'd the contract extension in January after the run of sellouts. The contract had been sitting awaiting BOT approval for some time.
So after I read the responses from everyone, I called my friend at lunch today. He stood behind his story and said that the Contract was not signed until Hunter Y gave his stamp of approval on it.  I am not sure if that was out of respect for Hunter that they let him meet with Mike to make that decision. The Contract was drawn up in November, that is 100% accurate. He made it sound like Mike also had questions for Hunter in regards to his own future.
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hobhog

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2018, 01:05:41 pm »

I think you should be put in charge of recruiting that great coach since you think it so easy. Firing Anderson sends the wrong message- letting him retire here, even if there is some behind the scenes pressure and extra money handed out, ends the Richardson era on a positive note and allows everyone to celebrate the good things Richardson did here as a part of the program's legacy and forget the nastiness that, at this point, defined the era.

This isn't about "nostalgia" (wow that word misses the point by a mile) it is about creating a story, mythical it's true, that makes everything upbeat and positive i.e. the great Nolan Richardson led the Arkansas Razorbacks to a promised land no other coach here has ever reached- there was a little unpleasantness at the end, a bump in the road really, but it all got fixed when his trusted assistant Mike Anderson agreed to return home to coach the team and, after a fairly successful tenure, retired as a lifetime Razorback.

 Run him out of town like the fans have every other coach in recent times and the investment made up to this point in that story is lost. The new story then is about a bunch of uppity, delusional fans and BOTs who think they are better than they are and who won't accept reality. As I said before, in that case "wash, rinse. repeat". But since you seem to have a plan to circumvent that scenario I suggest it be turned over to you to fix.

Wow. So let the program slide as long as everyone likes us? What Wrong message will be sent and to who?

I would think the real wrong message is we don't care about winning, we just want to be average. The message being that Arkansas has low expectations so any coach out there should find us attractive?

There is not a sportswriter or basketball fan across the country who would fault us one second for making a change if we don't make the tourney this year. On the contrary, I think they'd appreciate the fact we want to do better.

Or we can be lumped in with everyone else other than KY that we are SEC football school only.
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99toLife

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2018, 01:17:02 pm »

So after I read the responses from everyone, I called my friend at lunch today. He stood behind his story and said that the Contract was not signed until Hunter Y gave his stamp of approval on it.  I am not sure if that was out of respect for Hunter that they let him meet with Mike to make that decision. The Contract was drawn up in November, that is 100% accurate. He made it sound like Mike also had questions for Hunter in regards to his own future.

If that is what happened absolutely He is the AD. 
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OkieBack

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2018, 01:30:36 pm »

Neither is true.  Mike is not immune to getting fired, and he also wont ruin the basketball program by remaining coach and being average for the next 2-3 years.  It just gets annoying being duped every year I keep thinking..."yep, this could be the year I get to watch the Hogs play in the sweet 16"

Absolutely.  I might add that positively supporting the team has nothing to do with fans being "in love" with Mike Anderson.  Some are smart enough to realize it could get much, much worse with a new coach instead of patieintly seeing how the next year plays out for Mike.  Geez, I'd hate to live with you vultures.  What next?  You gonna run down to the hospital and pull the ventilator plug on your Granny who has the flu?  Just let it play out.  If Mike ain't got it then it's all gonna work out the way you want it to anyway.   It's just not gonna happen today.  Deal with it.
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jackflash

Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2018, 01:34:57 pm »

we tried change coaches several times never work before. I will stick with Mike
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okrazorback

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2018, 01:44:51 pm »

Let's all hope for the best with the program, Mike would be a great coach if he can get his win percentage up an win  some championships be it sec , sec tourney, regional of tourney an some of those early season deals , such as PK80 or whatever they may be called. Get some good teams that have a shot to win something ever year,   with that you eventually breakout .It is about recruiting, make no mistake about it, great players do great things.

It is about coaching.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2018, 02:52:42 pm »

we tried change coaches several times never work before. I will stick with Mike


Several?  We're on our 5th coach in 44 seasons.
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99toLife

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2018, 03:55:51 pm »


Several?  We're on our 5th coach in 44 seasons.

Numbers.. Not to nit pick but we are on our 4th coach in the last 17 years  Nolan last year 2001, then Stan, John and Mike.
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Kevin

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2018, 04:03:52 pm »

we tried change coaches several times never work before. I will stick with Mike

that is insane.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2018, 05:01:33 pm »

Wow. So let the program slide as long as everyone likes us? What Wrong message will be sent and to who?

I would think the real wrong message is we don't care about winning, we just want to be average. The message being that Arkansas has low expectations so any coach out there should find us attractive?

There is not a sportswriter or basketball fan across the country who would fault us one second for making a change if we don't make the tourney this year. On the contrary, I think they'd appreciate the fact we want to do better.

Or we can be lumped in with everyone else other than KY that we are SEC football school only.

See that first sentence in the quote in your post? That's the key- how good coaches feel about this program. There seems to be some disagreement on how easy/hard it is to recruit to Arkansas. I believe that we have, through the three coaches since Richardson (as well as Richardson himself) a pretty good sampling and the results don't look good. Any new coach is going to need to know he has time and patience to succeed and that the program doesn't carry any excess baggage he will have to deal with. You don't think that and like a lot of others here, in both football and basketball, it's just a matter of "discovering" the next superstar coach (or, like some, just a matter of luring Bill Self here ((LOL- why would Bill Self come to Arkansas? I never quite got that bit of delusional optimism))). So far we haven't found the magic dust in football or basketball- I think it's time to change the plan and get smart for a change. Do things a little differently by making the basketball program's past work for it instead of against it. Disagree all you want but the coaching merry-go-round hasn't worked so far-no reason to believe it will in the future (I know, I know there are literally hundreds of great coaches who want to come to this "top 20" job and it is always some nefarious conspiracy in the administration that undermines their ardor).
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Sivad

Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2018, 05:44:38 pm »

Firing Anderson sends the wrong message- letting him retire here, even if there is some extra money handed out, ends the Richardson era on a positive note.
Why in the hell would we hand out “some extra money” to Mike Anderson?
We’ve already made MA a multi-kazillionairre, paid him more money, and for a much longer time, than any other school in the country would have and gotten a very poor return on our money.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2018, 06:14:24 pm »

Why in the hell would we hand out “some extra money” to Mike Anderson?
We’ve already made MA a multi-kazillionairre, paid him more money, and for a much longer time, than any other school in the country would have and gotten a very poor return on our money.

Why? This isn't hard really. The reason is so that it seems like his idea to retire at Arkansas and to not seek another job. If he were to do that it looks like exactly what it is -a firing in everything but name. The whole Anderson era needs a smiley face that can be extrapolated to the Richardson era. That is a major reason he was hired in the first place I believe- not because he was such a great coach (although he seemed adequate when he was hired, and realistically he still does- adequate but no better).
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hobhog

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2018, 06:20:08 pm »

See that first sentence in the quote in your post? That's the key- how good coaches feel about this program. There seems to be some disagreement on how easy/hard it is to recruit to Arkansas. I believe that we have, through the three coaches since Richardson (as well as Richardson himself) a pretty good sampling and the results don't look good. Any new coach is going to need to know he has time and patience to succeed and that the program doesn't carry any excess baggage he will have to deal with. You don't think that and like a lot of others here, in both football and basketball, it's just a matter of "discovering" the next superstar coach (or, like some, just a matter of luring Bill Self here ((LOL- why would Bill Self come to Arkansas? I never quite got that bit of delusional optimism))). So far we haven't found the magic dust in football or basketball- I think it's time to change the plan and get smart for a change. Do things a little differently by making the basketball program's past work for it instead of against it. Disagree all you want but the coaching merry-go-round hasn't worked so far-no reason to believe it will in the future (I know, I know there are literally hundreds of great coaches who want to come to this "top 20" job and it is always some nefarious conspiracy in the administration that undermines their ardor).

Insane. Scared logic. 7 years of your philosophy has us playing in empty arena with huge apathy. Let's keep it the same for another few years until we are UALR.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2018, 06:31:24 pm »

Insane. Scared logic. 7 years of your philosophy has us playing in empty arena with huge apathy. Let's keep it the same for another few years until we are UALR.

Insane huh? "Scared logic"? Please, by all means, put a little meat on your argument- get a little skin the game beyond "fire Mike Anderson 'cause I ain't happy". I don't like to be discourteous to other posters but I don't see anything from you or your ilk that makes me re-think the position I outlined.
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rtr

Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2018, 06:59:44 pm »

See that first sentence in the quote in your post? That's the key- how good coaches feel about this program. There seems to be some disagreement on how easy/hard it is to recruit to Arkansas. I believe that we have, through the three coaches since Richardson (as well as Richardson himself) a pretty good sampling and the results don't look good. Any new coach is going to need to know he has time and patience to succeed and that the program doesn't carry any excess baggage he will have to deal with. You don't think that and like a lot of others here, in both football and basketball, it's just a matter of "discovering" the next superstar coach (or, like some, just a matter of luring Bill Self here ((LOL- why would Bill Self come to Arkansas? I never quite got that bit of delusional optimism))). So far we haven't found the magic dust in football or basketball- I think it's time to change the plan and get smart for a change. Do things a little differently by making the basketball program's past work for it instead of against it. Disagree all you want but the coaching merry-go-round hasn't worked so far-no reason to believe it will in the future (I know, I know there are literally hundreds of great coaches who want to come to this "top 20" job and it is always some nefarious conspiracy in the administration that undermines their ardor).
Bill Self would have come in 2002. You are not well informed.
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hobhog

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2018, 07:03:28 pm »

Insane huh? "Scared logic"? Please, by all means, put a little meat on your argument- get a little skin the game beyond "fire Mike Anderson 'cause I ain't happy". I don't like to be discourteous to other posters but I don't see anything from you or your ilk that makes me re-think the position I outlined.

Wow. My ilk? There a 1000 posts on here detailing MAs inadequacies. If you thnk this is good basketball and future is bright then enjoy.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2018, 08:32:26 am »

Bill Self would have come in 2002. You are not well informed.

Sure but he didn't and I'm sure you have some "deep state" conspiracy reason why he didn't. Dana Altman would have come here in 2007, but he didn't. I love it when someone says "Bill Self would have come in 2002" and leave it there, acting like they have inside information that is too sensitive to divulge. Why don't you lay out your whole theory on the subject of Bill Self if you are so well informed.
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Cotton

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2018, 08:35:27 am »

Sure but he didn't and I'm sure you have some "deep state" conspiracy reason why he didn't. Dana Altman would have come here in 2007, but he didn't. I love it when someone says "Bill Self would have come in 2002" and leave it there, acting like they have inside information that is too sensitive to divulge. Why don't you lay out your whole theory on the subject of Bill Self if you are so well informed.
It's actually well known that Bill Self declined to interview unless the job was offered to him.
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2018, 09:59:14 am »

A couple things. How about judging a season when it's finally over. I know that's a novel approach but it just might work. 

This isn't the same situation as football where things were spiraling with no end in sight.  1 conf win, 0 fan excitement, dwindling attendance, having to gut out wins against the likes of Coastal Carolina, and with whispers of off field stuff happening at Ben's apartment.

In regard to the extension or buyout it's more SOP than anything else.  It helps recruiting, and stability, and if a change would need to be made the buyout isn't going to cripple the program or be the deciding factor on whether a change needs to be made. 
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2018, 11:14:13 am »

It's actually well known that Bill Self declined to interview unless the job was offered to him.

What? does that mean exactly? I mean really what does it mean? Bill Self says "I won't take the job if I have to interview"? Bill self says: "I'll interview but only if I already have the job" (in which case the interview is only for me to tell you what you need to do for me)?  Bill Self says: "I'll take the job for x million a year and a y million buyout but you don't get to ask me anything about anything until after I sign the contract-and then what's the point?"?

Who (as in a responsible, competent AD) would accept those terms? In essence what you are saying is that Bill Self was never coming to Arkansas short of Broyles getting down on his hands and knees and kissing his a** . Many fans here seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of the University of Arkansas is to provide entertainment for people who never attended the University of Arkansas. Maybe I'm old fashion but it seems to me that an AD doing his job does not put the university in a questionable ethical position for any reason.
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rtr

Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2018, 11:18:14 am »

What? does that mean exactly? I mean really what does it mean? Bill Self says "I won't take the job if I have to interview"? Bill self says: "I'll interview but only if I already have the job" (in which case the interview is only for me to tell you what you need to do for me)?  Bill Self says: "I'll take the job for x million a year and a y million buyout but you don't get to ask me anything about anything until after I sign the contract-and then what's the point?"?

Who (as in a responsible, competent AD) would accept those terms? In essence what you are saying is that Bill Self was never coming to Arkansas short of Broyles getting down on his hands and knees and kissing his a** . Many fans here seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of the University of Arkansas is to provide entertainment for people who never attended the University of Arkansas. Maybe I'm old fashion but it seems to me that an AD doing his job does not put the university in a questionable ethical position for any reason.
See Mike Irwin's post in mmqb on the 11.3 million buyout about the role of John White in all this.
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Cotton

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2018, 11:19:05 am »

What? does that mean exactly? I mean really what does it mean? Bill Self says "I won't take the job if I have to interview"? Bill self says: "I'll interview but only if I already have the job" (in which case the interview is only for me to tell you what you need to do for me)?  Bill Self says: "I'll take the job for x million a year and a y million buyout but you don't get to ask me anything about anything until after I sign the contract-and then what's the point?"?

Who (as in a responsible, competent AD) would accept those terms? In essence what you are saying is that Bill Self was never coming to Arkansas short of Broyles getting down on his hands and knees and kissing his a** . Many fans here seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of the University of Arkansas is to provide entertainment for people who never attended the University of Arkansas. Maybe I'm old fashion but it seems to me that an AD doing his job does not put the university in a questionable ethical position for any reason.
Are you asking me a question? ....or?

 ???
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snoblind

Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2018, 11:42:11 am »

What? does that mean exactly? I mean really what does it mean? Bill Self says "I won't take the job if I have to interview"? Bill self says: "I'll interview but only if I already have the job" (in which case the interview is only for me to tell you what you need to do for me)?  Bill Self says: "I'll take the job for x million a year and a y million buyout but you don't get to ask me anything about anything until after I sign the contract-and then what's the point?"?

Who (as in a responsible, competent AD) would accept those terms? In essence what you are saying is that Bill Self was never coming to Arkansas short of Broyles getting down on his hands and knees and kissing his a** . Many fans here seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of the University of Arkansas is to provide entertainment for people who never attended the University of Arkansas. Maybe I'm old fashion but it seems to me that an AD doing his job does not put the university in a questionable ethical position for any reason.

Are you really this dense or just trolling?  The majority of folks here that were around in 2002 know what happened.  And it has been discussed on HV many times.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2018, 12:22:00 pm »

What? does that mean exactly? I mean really what does it mean? Bill Self says "I won't take the job if I have to interview"? Bill self says: "I'll interview but only if I already have the job" (in which case the interview is only for me to tell you what you need to do for me)?  Bill Self says: "I'll take the job for x million a year and a y million buyout but you don't get to ask me anything about anything until after I sign the contract-and then what's the point?"?

Who (as in a responsible, competent AD) would accept those terms? In essence what you are saying is that Bill Self was never coming to Arkansas short of Broyles getting down on his hands and knees and kissing his a** . Many fans here seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of the University of Arkansas is to provide entertainment for people who never attended the University of Arkansas. Maybe I'm old fashion but it seems to me that an AD doing his job does not put the university in a questionable ethical position for any reason.
No established coach is going to publicly interview for a job when he already has a good one. It's career suicide. The fans back home will never stand for it.
Self was prepared to come. He coached at Tulsa, is from this area, his in-laws are in this area, and in 2002 Arkansas would have been a better job than Illinois.
Everything was in place, except John White was forcing candidates to come to campus for an interview.
The only guys who can afford to do that are the guys with nothing to lose...those at smaller schools where their fans understand their coach aspiring for a 'bigger' job and wouldn't hold it against them, guys like Stan Heath. Guys like Bill Self can't afford to do that.

Not to mention, with Nolan's lawsuit, there was subtle pressure that maybe the next hire should be a black coach, to help the UA in that regard.

Bottom line, if John White had stayed out of the way and stopped micro-managing the athletic department, I have no doubt Self would have been the next head coach. Tommy Boyer was on the search committee in 2002, and he said this years later i.e. that Self could have been had at the time.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2018, 01:25:19 pm »

No established coach is going to publicly interview for a job when he already has a good one. It's career suicide. The fans back home will never stand for it.
Self was prepared to come. He coached at Tulsa, is from this area, his in-laws are in this area, and in 2002 Arkansas would have been a better job than Illinois.
Everything was in place, except John White was forcing candidates to come to campus for an interview.
The only guys who can afford to do that are the guys with nothing to lose...those at smaller schools where their fans understand their coach aspiring for a 'bigger' job and wouldn't hold it against them, guys like Stan Heath. Guys like Bill Self can't afford to do that.

Not to mention, with Nolan's lawsuit, there was subtle pressure that maybe the next hire should be a black coach, to help the UA in that regard.

Bottom line, if John White had stayed out of the way and stopped micro-managing the athletic department, I have no doubt Self would have been the next head coach. Tommy Boyer was on the search committee in 2002, and he said this years later i.e. that Self could have been had at the time.

That sounds reasonable except for one possible complication. Did White say Self had to come here and interview with flags flying and a full court media storm or could he have come quietly or even interviewed in situ? If the interview wasn't publicized his employer would never need to know and, in the case of Self, he seems, even then, to have been high profile enough to do whatever he wanted. I don't discount your story- that may be all there was to it but I am still skeptical that it was. Again, it is very hard to imagine a major hire going forward without the required due diligence by the school. It could have resulted in unfortunate consequences for the administration if something later came to light and there was no record of an interview.

And some of it could have been the desire to relieve the pressure of the Nolan Richardson charge of racial bias and hire a black coach. The problem with that argument is that Richardson's case had as much chance of going forward as a cat in a pit bull kennel. The school's lawyers surely told administration that. The contract, like most employment contracts, was "at will" and subject to termination without explanation as long as the terms of separation were met. That put an almost impossible burden of proof on Richardson to show that he had been unfairly targeted because of race (i.e. if he had been white he would not have been fired). Given his own statements and his recent record I was more than shocked when he went down that road. If all of that is so then the importance of hiring a black coach was purely of public relations importance. All things being equal maybe that kind of hire would have been preferred but it's hard to believe that was the first priority.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2018, 01:43:41 pm »

Are you asking me a question? ....or?

 ???

Yes, well I can see the confusion. My problem is that conventional wisdom takes hold here and then as we know conventional wisdom becomes legend, legend becomes myth and myth comes full circle to become fact. This started about Mike Anderson and that devolved into "how hard is it to recruit a really good coach to Arkansas?". That devolved to "Bill Self (a really good coach) almost came to Arkansas". That devolved (thanks to me I guess) to "how does anyone actually know this"? And that has devolved further into the "legend/myth/ and Hogville conventional wisdom that John White is somehow behind everything that ever went wrong in the athletic program. Maybe that's true and maybe I'm just perverse but I, not being in state and having access to secret sources, would like clarify what people actually know as opposed to what they think they know on the subject of who is to blame for what.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2018, 05:28:02 pm »

That sounds reasonable except for one possible complication. Did White say Self had to come here and interview with flags flying and a full court media storm or could he have come quietly or even interviewed in situ? If the interview wasn't publicized his employer would never need to know and, in the case of Self, he seems, even then, to have been high profile enough to do whatever he wanted. I don't discount your story- that may be all there was to it but I am still skeptical that it was. Again, it is very hard to imagine a major hire going forward without the required due diligence by the school. It could have resulted in unfortunate consequences for the administration if something later came to light and there was no record of an interview.

And some of it could have been the desire to relieve the pressure of the Nolan Richardson charge of racial bias and hire a black coach. The problem with that argument is that Richardson's case had as much chance of going forward as a cat in a pit bull kennel. The school's lawyers surely told administration that. The contract, like most employment contracts, was "at will" and subject to termination without explanation as long as the terms of separation were met. That put an almost impossible burden of proof on Richardson to show that he had been unfairly targeted because of race (i.e. if he had been white he would not have been fired). Given his own statements and his recent record I was more than shocked when he went down that road. If all of that is so then the importance of hiring a black coach was purely of public relations importance. All things being equal maybe that kind of hire would have been preferred but it's hard to believe that was the first priority.
I don't think it matters, White had the requirement, and to me it's impossible in this day and age for a guy like Self(or anyone) to show up somewhere and the word not get out. People track plane numbers, etc. This was before social media but I believe this is the same year where Petrino, who was at Louisville, secretly met with Auburn at an undisclosed location to talk about the Auburn job. Except the secret didn't last too long; I think someone at Auburn tracked the Auburn plane number to Louisville and figured out what was going on.
No way Self could 'interview' for the job in secret. So, it's either his job to accept and the 'interview' a mere formality, or no dice to a dog-and-pony show unless he pretty much knows he has the job already and has agreed to terms.
Just a case where clueless John White dragging his bureaucracy into athletics. In his mind, he's probably thinking 'this is how we hire positions on campus'. Well, that's probably true, but big-time college athletics doesn't work that way. You can't put your name out there without alienating the fans at your current job. Coaching is just a different hiring animal than say, hiring a professor, a provost, or even a chancellor.
White was just an idiot.

My opinions on whether Self was coming is based on me putting 2+2 together, yes, but a lot of it is based on Tommy Boyer himself said. He was on the committee, so he had access to information like that. He couldn't talk about this stuff at the time but years later in an interview with Inside Razorback Athletics he divulged some things. This was sometime during the Pelphrey years, or maybe early in the Anderson years. I guess he felt enough time had gone by where he felt comfortable talking about it.
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Sharky

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2018, 06:53:54 pm »

Things haven't been great the past couple weeks but Ive seen what mike Anderson did everywhere else. He won. He isn't like bielema that won big at 1 university under the watchful eye of someone else, hes done it at several programs. Its just a matter of time until everything falls in place and he has that 1 big season we remember him for. As far as im concerned, Mike can stay here as long as he wants

He won everywhere else about like he's done here. He has one Elite 8 appearance. There are a number of factors that make CMA's system tough to implement: number of timeouts, touch fouls, better guard play, better video prep by opponents. I also think his system needs 8-9 really good players to be competitive instead of 4-5 excellent players. The means fewer game minutes for players, and not everyone wants to give up playing time for a high-rotation system.





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Cotton

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2018, 08:29:40 am »

Yes, well I can see the confusion. My problem is that conventional wisdom takes hold here and then as we know conventional wisdom becomes legend, legend becomes myth and myth comes full circle to become fact. This started about Mike Anderson and that devolved into "how hard is it to recruit a really good coach to Arkansas?". That devolved to "Bill Self (a really good coach) almost came to Arkansas". That devolved (thanks to me I guess) to "how does anyone actually know this"? And that has devolved further into the "legend/myth/ and Hogville conventional wisdom that John White is somehow behind everything that ever went wrong in the athletic program. Maybe that's true and maybe I'm just perverse but I, not being in state and having access to secret sources, would like clarify what people actually know as opposed to what they think they know on the subject of who is to blame for what.
I never blamed anybody or connected any of those dots. I was just clarifying the Bill Self part of things since somebody was denying it.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2018, 08:37:34 am »

I don't think it matters, White had the requirement, and to me it's impossible in this day and age for a guy like Self(or anyone) to show up somewhere and the word not get out. People track plane numbers, etc. This was before social media but I believe this is the same year where Petrino, who was at Louisville, secretly met with Auburn at an undisclosed location to talk about the Auburn job. Except the secret didn't last too long; I think someone at Auburn tracked the Auburn plane number to Louisville and figured out what was going on.
No way Self could 'interview' for the job in secret. So, it's either his job to accept and the 'interview' a mere formality, or no dice to a dog-and-pony show unless he pretty much knows he has the job already and has agreed to terms.
Just a case where clueless John White dragging his bureaucracy into athletics. In his mind, he's probably thinking 'this is how we hire positions on campus'. Well, that's probably true, but big-time college athletics doesn't work that way. You can't put your name out there without alienating the fans at your current job. Coaching is just a different hiring animal than say, hiring a professor, a provost, or even a chancellor.
White was just an idiot.

My opinions on whether Self was coming is based on me putting 2+2 together, yes, but a lot of it is based on Tommy Boyer himself said. He was on the committee, so he had access to information like that. He couldn't talk about this stuff at the time but years later in an interview with Inside Razorback Athletics he divulged some things. This was sometime during the Pelphrey years, or maybe early in the Anderson years. I guess he felt enough time had gone by where he felt comfortable talking about it.

I appreciate you fleshing out how you came to your beliefs concerning the Self episode. My only remaining problems are that in 2002 Arkansas basketball was not in a good place. Self would have to have taken a real leap of faith to come here and, secondly, we have seen recently in the Gus Malzahn  clusterf**k how "might" take the job translates in fan's minds to "is taking" the job.

I'll take your opinion about White and his poor handling of athletic issues at face value. I'll reserve judgment on whether or not Self, given the turmoil around the program, would ultimately have decided to actually commit even if White had done things the way he wanted. It will remain I suppose one of those bits of Arkansas lore that will never be truly known and will be argued about forever.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2018, 08:49:30 am »

I never blamed anybody or connected any of those dots. I was just clarifying the Bill Self part of things since somebody was denying it.

I wouldn't use the term "denying" rather "questioning whether it made sense" or was instead the usual pie-in-the-sky or would-have-been, could-have-been, should-have-been stuff one reads on Hogville all the time. There are a lot of opinions posted here and not all of them are very well thought out or grounded in fact.  I know the Self story is part of Arkansas myth but I never knew to what extent it was anchored by fact.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2018, 06:02:38 pm »

I appreciate you fleshing out how you came to your beliefs concerning the Self episode. My only remaining problems are that in 2002 Arkansas basketball was not in a good place. Self would have to have taken a real leap of faith to come here and, secondly, we have seen recently in the Gus Malzahn  clusterf**k how "might" take the job translates in fan's minds to "is taking" the job.

I'll take your opinion about White and his poor handling of athletic issues at face value. I'll reserve judgment on whether or not Self, given the turmoil around the program, would ultimately have decided to actually commit even if White had done things the way he wanted. It will remain I suppose one of those bits of Arkansas lore that will never be truly known and will be argued about forever.
True, no way of knowing. Also true that in 2017 Arkansas doesn't look like it did in 2002.
And I mean that in the most positive light. In 2002 Arkansas was only 8 years removed from a national title; Illinois had never won one. Ark had 6 Final 4s by then, Illinois maybe one. So in 2002 I think clearly Ark was considered the better job. Not sure I would say that in 2017. It would be a little more debatable.
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razorback1829

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2018, 12:20:42 am »

Prime example of a thread past it's time.
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Nickle-Pig

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Re: Mike will retire here
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2018, 01:10:52 am »

This would be a better thing to hope for than anything. That would mean a very happy ending.
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