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Author Topic: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!  (Read 1489 times)

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mike_the_geek

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Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« on: February 05, 2018, 07:50:34 am »

Sorry to state the completely obvious, but here goes - someone needs to say it so the coaching staff might figure it out before it is too late.  I am not a basketball expert by any means, but as a hawg fan I want this team to win and make the NCAA tourney.  This season is going down the tubes fast and it is extremely disappointing that this coaching staff refuses to change things up.

JUST SO IT IS CLEAR, MIKE AND STAFF, START PLAYING HALF-COURT DEFENSE, NAMELY MATCH-UP ZONE, AND STOP THE MAN TO MAN FULL COURT DEBACLE THAT IS GETTING YOU BEAT EVERY GAME! 

YOU WENT TO ZONE LAST YEAR AT LSU ON THE ROAD AND IT TURNED THAT GAME AROUND, AND YOU CONTINUED TO USE ZONE THE REST OF THE YEAR TO WIN A LOT OF GAMES AND SAVE THAT SEASON.  WHY WON'T YOU DO THAT THIS SEASON? 

AT LEAST DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO MIX IT UP - YOU KEEP ON DOING THE SAME THING EVERY GAME AND IT IS NOT WORKING.  THE STATS CLEARLY SHOW THAT THIS TEAM IS PLAYING TERRIBLE DEFENSE.  FIX THAT AND YOU MIGHT SAVE THIS SEASON.  CHANGE NOTHING AND THIS TEAM WILL BE LUCKY TO MAKE THE NIT.
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hogsanity

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 08:17:40 am »

As poorly as they guard the perimeter, zone is not likely the answer. The 1st thing would be quit trapping, 2nd would be quit switching every freaking ball screen, and finally, when you have a guy knocks down a couple 3's quit leaving him to go help.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 08:28:12 am »

Haven't figured this out by now m_t_g?  He has to wait till the last possible moment.  After NCAAT seeding has taken a hit and after getting the fan base riled up and nervous to angry.  Then just in time make an adjustment or luck into the right rotation after trying different combos throughout the conference season.  His fans have been stewing with all of the comments from other fans and lash out.  Great era to be in. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 08:30:47 am »

Haven't figured this out by now m_t_g?  He has to wait till the last possible moment.  After NCAAT seeding has taken a hit and after getting the fan base riled up and nervous to angry.  Then just in time make an adjustment or luck into the right rotation after trying different combos throughout the conference season.  His fans have been stewing with all of the comments from other fans and lash out.  Great era to be in. 

More likely he lucks into a relatively soft spot in the schedule ( SC and Vandy ) and wins just enough to make the ncaat. Then everyone says " you cant fire a coach that just made the ncaat " ( even though we did that with Heath ) and then next year he has a really young team and it needs 2 years to gel so he gets a pass in 18-19.
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Kevin

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 08:47:42 am »

they have tried the match up zone. this team just will not guard.
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OkieBack

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 09:03:36 am »

they have tried the match up zone. this team just will not guard.

No defense = No NCCAT.  Wish I could sugar coat it but it is what it is. 
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zebradynasty

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2018, 09:28:14 am »

they have tried the match up zone. this team just will not guard.

True they have tried a matchup zone but they still make the same mistakes and have the same tendencies. We can't stop dribble penetration, which causes us to double team leaving open 3 threes or easy dunks on the backside. Or we double team at the wrong times and in the wrong area's of the floor.

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why we are trapping all over the place with relatively short guards. The defense MA wants run needs a roster full Darrius Hall types 6-4 to 6-6 with long arms. Trapping with guards the size of Macon, Barford and Beard just won't cut it in today's college game.
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hogsanity

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2018, 09:31:02 am »


I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why we are trapping all over the place with relatively short guards.


Because it is either all Mike knows how to coach, or is all he will coach. I am starting to believe it is the former.
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Kevin

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 09:48:34 am »

there are going to do what they have done for 6+ years. No changes!!

just like switching that high pick and roll. been doing for 6+ years, and it isn't changing
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zebradynasty

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2018, 10:07:16 am »

Because it is either all Mike knows how to coach, or is all he will coach. I am starting to believe it is the former.

Well, HE knows better because Nolan loved to get long guards with good feet. But Mike really hasn't had many of that type of guard since he's been here. So maybe it is all that he will coach...I think that is a big mistake UNLESS he get's the players here that are physically able to run his defense.
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FATHAWG08

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 10:21:44 am »

There's not a lot of "Want Too" on this team.
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maxhog5

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 10:25:27 am »

To play a zone effectively today, you have to have length which the Hogs are lacking.  That is why they have so much trouble on closeouts.  Teams just shoot over them.
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b-ball coach

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2018, 04:10:33 pm »

Macon
Barford
Jones
Hall
Gafford

That line up can play offense, shoot the 3, attack zones (Barford on Ft area), 2-2-1 press, play 1/2 court man and switch, and play the matchup zone defense. The weakness is rebounding, but itís not a strength anyway. Use Thomas, Bailey, and Beard off the bench in smaller increments and change our trajectory. 
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2018, 05:30:47 pm »

There is no inseason fix for this team.
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razorpimp

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pm »

I think there is a group within this team that can play defense the problem is they are exhausted from playing that full court trapping crap that CMA uses.  They are too tired

Just slow the damn game down and play in the low 70s, they just don't have the quality depth
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East TN HAWG

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2018, 07:28:52 pm »

I know in 94-95 if a player got hot, we would take that player out mentally and physically.  Beck and McDaniel would make it their mission.  We donít have anyone with that mentality on defense.  I think that is the difference for over half of our losses. 

I think players are soft now on all levels of basketball.  Not just us. 
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26.2Hog

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2018, 07:41:59 pm »

There's not a lot of "Want Too" on this team.

Exactly.  Hall has it.  That's about it.
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WBOBO

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2018, 07:50:44 pm »

I think a couple of our high profiled players are more concerned with showcasing their skills
for the next level and have forgotten about the current level they are playing on.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2018, 05:23:47 am »

Exactly.  Hall has it.  That's about it.

I hope this team doesn't make him lose it, either.  Kid has the want too and drive.   You can see him trying and disappointed in the lack of effort at times.  I truly feel sorry for him and gafford.   They have been let down. 
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RacinRazorback

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2018, 07:25:28 am »

As poorly as they guard the perimeter, zone is not likely the answer. The 1st thing would be quit trapping, 2nd would be quit switching every freaking ball screen, and finally, when you have a guy knocks down a couple 3's quit leaving him to go help.

Couldn't agree more!! I don't know what is so hard about this that a paid coaching staff can't see! We just keep beating our head against a brick wall every game expecting not to have a big sore knot on our head after! WAKE UP and at least try something different for gods sake!! I can't believe after such a fine start we are in Feb. worried about making the tourney! SAD!!
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OkieBack

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2018, 09:48:53 am »

I know in 94-95 if a player got hot, we would take that player out mentally and physically.  Beck and McDaniel would make it their mission.  We donít have anyone with that mentality on defense.  I think that is the difference for over half of our losses. 

I think players are soft now on all levels of basketball.  Not just us.

That's a great point.  Defensively we don't have anyone who can play in-your-face defense for 40 minutes.  Nolan always substituted and that was key to keep our pressure guy fresh.  I just don't think we have the intensity on defense from the bench.  We let too many outside shooters do as they wish.  Our bench is soft and they don't understand it takes intense defense beyond the line for 40 full minutes, not just a stretch here and there.  If you gotta play zone then fine, but you better find someone to keep the pressure up on their guards.  At all times.
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10yrsofhell

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2018, 11:29:44 am »

This is my post from 4 years ago. It applies to any MA coached team.

Well, since you asked.
Our pressing full court all the time drives me crazy. It's not effective at all. It doesn't lead to easy baskets like the old days. What it leads to most of the time is an easy layup or wide open 3 on the other end and senseless fouls.  Another thing is any fouling committed 35 to 90 feet away from the basket. This always  puts the other team on the foul line early and often. There's no need for it. If we could learn to rebound out of it I would prefer  to play some sort of half court zone defense 90% of the time.
[/b]
 
Wish he would hire a defensive minded assistant coach since he will be here no matter what the outcome. We don't play tough physical defense, especially around the basket.
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RaisinHog

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2018, 12:52:40 pm »

I'm in the camp of zone probably isn't gona help us getting our eyes shot out from long range .. but would like too trash the press and stop switching so much ..
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OkieBack

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2018, 01:11:04 pm »

I think there is a group within this team that can play defense the problem is they are exhausted from playing that full court trapping crap that CMA uses.  They are too tired

Just slow the damn game down and play in the low 70s, they just don't have the quality depth

Truth. Limit the full court press crap and get back on D.  Run the 1 + 4 zone and substitute the 1 out front to keep pressure on the ball handler.  The bench is just not deep enough to help run the full court hell. 
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2018, 07:41:02 pm »

We have been playing a matchup zone along with man nearly all season.

Quickness at the point is our kryptonite. Aside from the Miss St loss, the rest have had elite level quickness at the point.

That leads to more fouling and open shots on the perimeter.
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azhog10

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2018, 09:20:14 am »

they have tried the match up zone. this team just will not guard.
I'd rather see Mike pull some of these guys and us lose with guys on the floor at least trying to play defense then lose games with guys not trying to play defense. I feel a lot better and enjoy watching guys like Darius and Gabe playing with way more effort than some of our seniors. Sure people will yell Fire Mike, but I'd rather see guys playing their tails off than what I see on the defensive end from others right now.
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lynbug

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2018, 10:53:53 am »

I'd rather see Mike pull some of these guys and us lose with guys on the floor at least trying to play defense then lose games with guys not trying to play defense. I feel a lot better and enjoy watching guys like Darius and Gabe playing with way more effort than some of our seniors. Sure people will yell Fire Mike, but I'd rather see guys playing their tails off than what I see on the defensive end from others right now.
Couldn't have said it better.
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OkieBack

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2018, 12:24:04 pm »

I'd rather see Mike pull some of these guys and us lose with guys on the floor at least trying to play defense then lose games with guys not trying to play defense. I feel a lot better and enjoy watching guys like Darius and Gabe playing with way more effort than some of our seniors. Sure people will yell Fire Mike, but I'd rather see guys playing their tails off than what I see on the defensive end from others right now.

Absolutely.  If you're not bring the D on the floor first and foremost then you shouldn't ever even get to step on the court.  No matter if you're a Freshman or Senior.  You must always bring the D, for all 40 minutes. 
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2018, 12:56:36 pm »

Anyone who says we should stay in a zone defense the whole game hasn't a clue about basketball. The reason the zone has been effective at times is because when we change from man to man defense with pressure on the ball to a 2/3 zone, it temporarily confuses the other team and it takes them a couple or three minutes, at most, to adjust. Once they adjust you will see top coaches entering the ball into the post and then back out for an easy three. If THIS particular team ran zone defense the whole game it would be like changing a thoroughbred sprinter into a route horse. It won't work for the long haul. This idea, of going strictly to a zone defense is a bad idea.
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Hoggish1

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2018, 04:24:32 pm »

Sorry to state the completely obvious, but here goes - someone needs to say it so the coaching staff might figure it out before it is too late.  I am not a basketball expert by any means, but as a hawg fan I want this team to win and make the NCAA tourney.  This season is going down the tubes fast and it is extremely disappointing that this coaching staff refuses to change things up.

JUST SO IT IS CLEAR, MIKE AND STAFF, START PLAYING HALF-COURT DEFENSE, NAMELY MATCH-UP ZONE, AND STOP THE MAN TO MAN FULL COURT DEBACLE THAT IS GETTING YOU BEAT EVERY GAME! 

YOU WENT TO ZONE LAST YEAR AT LSU ON THE ROAD AND IT TURNED THAT GAME AROUND, AND YOU CONTINUED TO USE ZONE THE REST OF THE YEAR TO WIN A LOT OF GAMES AND SAVE THAT SEASON.  WHY WON'T YOU DO THAT THIS SEASON? 

AT LEAST DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO MIX IT UP - YOU KEEP ON DOING THE SAME THING EVERY GAME AND IT IS NOT WORKING.  THE STATS CLEARLY SHOW THAT THIS TEAM IS PLAYING TERRIBLE DEFENSE.  FIX THAT AND YOU MIGHT SAVE THIS SEASON.  CHANGE NOTHING AND THIS TEAM WILL BE LUCKY TO MAKE THE NIT.


LOL
Mike will respond when he gets the cotton out of his ears from all that screaming.  But, I agree.  Saw zones working in last night's game and hope Mike tuned in...
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Hoggish1

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 05:33:45 pm »

More likely he lucks into a relatively soft spot in the schedule ( SC and Vandy ) and wins just enough to make the ncaat.

Well, after Saturday the "soft schedule" is over and I see us ending the last games at, worse case 1-6 with a 2-5 best case finish. Will 18-13 cut it?  Better win a couple in St. Louis to be sure.
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mhuff

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2018, 08:10:30 pm »

Anyone who says we should stay in a zone defense the whole game hasn't a clue about basketball. The reason the zone has been effective at times is because when we change from man to man defense with pressure on the ball to a 2/3 zone, it temporarily confuses the other team and it takes them a couple or three minutes, at most, to adjust. Once they adjust you will see top coaches entering the ball into the post and then back out for an easy three. If THIS particular team ran zone defense the whole game it would be like changing a thoroughbred sprinter into a route horse. It won't work for the long haul. This idea, of going strictly to a zone defense is a bad idea.

Absolute truth. Zone all the time is not good basketball. It's like giving them the keys to the city and just asking to get your brains beat out unless it's against our team. We don't pass it inside to loosen things up, so we jack around on the perimeter and fire up contested shots. We have only been winning games that we put pressure on the other team. However, I have rarely ever seen the full court press run correctly. That would be the first thing I would change. You either close closely and stop the dribbler not allowing him to pass over the press ,or you sit on the bench for perhaps the rest of the game. Then, you have an opportunity for the defense to pick off passes and work for you instead of against you. When the other team calls timeout, you drop back into a half court trap as soon as they cross half court. You run this until it losses effectiveness. Then , you might play a zone and trap in the corners. When you have a 15 or 20 lead , you run a regular half court offense. Majority of defense will be man to man. You can't stay in front of your man; you can't stay on the court. Players not playing both ends of the court do not play. Also, players throwing up crap shots lose any opportunity for the green light to shoot. We have some big shot players not playing team ball right now. We started the season with a large number of assists. Now it's been every man for himself by some. We just need to play something that resembles BB.
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colbs

Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2018, 11:33:32 pm »

The big issue is the on ball defense has been bad.  The guards are getting beat a lot off the dribble.  Then the help defense rotates over and the offense kicks to the open player.  If you are consistently getting beta off the dribble 30 feet from the basket you need to back off some.  Getting pressure on the guards is one thing but if they just blow past you then you need to adjust. 
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thebignasty

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2018, 08:16:19 am »

lol
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OkieBack

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Re: Stating the obvious - ZONE DEFENSE!
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2018, 09:47:41 am »

Anyone who says we should stay in a zone defense the whole game hasn't a clue about basketball. The reason the zone has been effective at times is because when we change from man to man defense with pressure on the ball to a 2/3 zone, it temporarily confuses the other team and it takes them a couple or three minutes, at most, to adjust. Once they adjust you will see top coaches entering the ball into the post and then back out for an easy three. If THIS particular team ran zone defense the whole game it would be like changing a thoroughbred sprinter into a route horse. It won't work for the long haul. This idea, of going strictly to a zone defense is a bad idea.

This.  I don't think anyone expects MA to run a half court zone ALL of the time.  But MA tends to use the full court pressure a bit much to where it costs the team easy baskets if we aren't getting the turnover.  Like you said.  I think pressing as an element of surprise works well.  Don't keep doing it after they have adjusted like you say.  But this group of talent and bench just cannot play a pressure defense 100% of the game, nor should they.  When in zone they must play good half court D and get turnovers that way.  Full court press will trigger a run from time to time during a game, but it should never be the standard defense especially when the other team has great guards and can break a press for easy baskets. 

Now with all that said...WHEN you end up with some stellar talent on the court and in numbers...then press the heck out of em until they bleed or run out of gas.
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