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Author Topic: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season  (Read 7502 times)

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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #200 on: February 05, 2018, 05:00:11 pm »

And from a school standpoint.....that is enough of a reason to stay put.   No reason to move, just get better.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #201 on: February 05, 2018, 05:00:22 pm »

And again, it's the same mentality of the guy who shows up at the golf course and the guys he's are playing with can barely say hello and ask how he's doing, before he's begging for strokes in your dollar Nassau bet.  It never occurs to the dude that he could get better if he upped his level of competition, worked harder, and stopped taking the easy way out.  Not play better...beg that extra stroke out of your opponent.   

Again, you want an easier path.  Even assuming it's an easier path, OU's team this year was the best the Big 12 has put out in quite a few seasons, and they still lost in the playoff right?  With the Heisman trophy winner, right?   

And...to take that a step further, the percentages you gave don't exactly illustrate that we would be in the top 3 of the Big 12 at at barely over 50%.  Factor in that we're not getting gimme's over Rice, Baylor (pre cheating days), SMU (when they weren't cheating), and against TAMU...who by the way moved up, not back, in competition from the Big 12. 

It's a different landscape for sure.  You think we would flourish, I don't.  That's really the end of the argument as far as I'm concerned, because it's pure conjecture from the word "go." 

No examples of a team that dropped back, and benefitted from it.  Maybe we would be the first..EVER, in any sport, and you would be right.   ;) 

 
 

I took into account a drop in recruiting; we'd be fourth in the Big 12. 

More talent relative to your competition = more wins. It's not that complicated.

Houston and Rice's winning percentage improved when they left the SWC.


Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against Big 12 teams as the conference now stands, we are combined 168-151 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .527.


You are bad at reading.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #202 on: February 05, 2018, 05:00:26 pm »

I took into account a drop in recruiting; we'd be fourth in the Big 12. 

More talent relative to your competition = more wins. It's not that complicated.

Houston and Rice's winning percentage improved when they left the SWC.

Of course they improved...and they have ZERO chance of even being in the playoffs.  They still aren't going undefeated, even in their conferences.  Again...competition drop, you drop.  Thank you for making the point. 

You think we would rank 4th in recruiting after moving.  I don't agree. 

None of this matters.  The Big 12 is probably about 1K times more likely to implode than the SEC.  We're not going to move.  That's a dream of yours that will never come true. 

I would however suggest you pick a Big 12 team and root for them, because apparently you think they are going to win more and have an easier path to the NC game.  UGA says hello...not so fast. 

This is an old argument, and I'm done arguing with you guys.  You can all pine for the glory days of the SWC by thinking and equating it to the Big 12, but that's not how it is now.  We couldn't beat T Tech and TCU, and while I don't know how our recruiting classes ranked versus them, it doesn't matter. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #203 on: February 05, 2018, 05:03:41 pm »

You are bad at reading.

No, I'm not.  Read my post.  As I said....the teams from the SWC that are now in the Big 12 have much more money and resources...the landscape has changed.  You don't bring a kid to campus and have them think..."Man, I have a much better chance here than TCU of going to the NFL."  They think..."Hmm...TCU curb stomped the UA a few years back, and it's only an hour drive.  Why go to the UA unless I've got a better chance of making it to the NFL by playing against the best competition...the SEC?" 

But...you want to think kids would come at the same rate, and our recruiting would stay the same.  I disagree.  It's that simple.  I can't prove it...you can't prove it. 

I can prove one thing...you guys can't come up with a school who dropped back and excelled as a result, and was able to compete for a NC on ANY level. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #204 on: February 05, 2018, 05:04:58 pm »

No, I'm not.  Read my post.  As I said....the teams from the SWC that are now in the Big 12 have much more money and resources...the landscape has changed.  You don't bring a kid to campus and have them think..."Man, I have a much better chance here than TCU of going to the NFL."  They think..."Hmm...TCU curb stomped the UA a few years back, and it's only an hour drive.  Why go to the UA unless I've got a better chance of making it to the NFL by playing against the best competition...the SEC?" 

But...you want to think kids would come at the same rate, and our recruiting would stay the same.  I disagree.  It's that simple.  I can't prove it...you can't prove it. 

I can prove one thing...you guys can't come up with a school who dropped back and excelled as a result, and was able to compete for a NC on ANY level.

And you can't prove how joining the SEC has helped the Arkansas Razorbacks football team apart from a monetary standpoint.

More seasons at .500 or below.
Lower winning percentage against conference foes.
What else...
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #205 on: February 05, 2018, 05:05:55 pm »

Let's look at it from a historical perspective.

In 83 seasons in the SWC, 36.14% of seasons resulted in .500 or worse.
In 26 seasons in the SEC, 46.15% of seasons have resulted in .500 or worse.

Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.
Against Big 12 teams as the conference now stands, we are combined 168-151 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .527.

Yes, times have changed. Yes, recruiting landscapes have changed. Yes, money has changed. Yes, the game has changed.

But historically speaking, we have had better success against Big 12 schools. That is a hard fact. That's why I stand to believe we would have more success in the Big 12 than we would the SEC.

"B-b-b-but money!" How has money translated to more wins? We're 25 games under .500 against SEC schools. Until someone proves how many wins our SEC money has resulted in, that argument is null and void.

"B-b-b-but competition!" I want the Arkansas Razorbacks to win football games in a P5 conference that gives them an in to the playoff.

In my opinion, that road runs through the Big 12.

I pride myself on wins and victories. I don't pride myself on getting my teeth kicked in and thinking "well golly gee, I guess I gotta get better! At least I'm losing to the best in the country! It's been happening for 46% of the time for the last 26 years, so we gotta try harder and we gotta get better!" A lot easier to say than do.

Nah. Give me legitimate wins. Not feel-good losses.

This is like saying "I was a middling boxer at my gym, all the other guys my age were all really good I could just never beat those guys,  I switched to a gym with all kids and now I am kicking ass, I am a much better better boxer now.  I am racking up tons of legitimate wins against these kids."   
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #206 on: February 05, 2018, 05:07:04 pm »

This is like saying "I was a middling boxer at my gym, all the other guys my age were all really good I could just never beat those guys,  I switched to a gym with all kids and now I am kicking ass, I am a much better better boxer now.  I am racking up tons of legitimate wins against these kids."

No it's not. These are factual numbers and statistics.

Also --- your post reads as though you're against racking up wins. Hey if you don't wanna win, that's not my problem. Keep bragging about that SEC money and having losing conference records more often than not.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #207 on: February 05, 2018, 05:09:58 pm »

This is like saying "I was a middling boxer at my gym, all the other guys my age were all really good I could just never beat those guys,  I switched to a gym with all kids and now I am kicking ass, I am a much better better boxer now.  I am racking up tons of legitimate wins against these kids."

Yup and you are not going to get the college playoffs that way.  You can never be the best by playing the worst.  I just can't get over how many people, the only thing is about winning......even if you have to beat the 2 year old up for his lollypop.  I would much rather lose to Alabama by 10 than beat Rice by 30.  If you wanna be the best, you have to play the best.  Period.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #208 on: February 05, 2018, 05:10:44 pm »

Yup and you are not going to get the college playoffs that way.

And you sure as hell aren't gonna get into it going 4-8 or 7-5.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #209 on: February 05, 2018, 05:13:19 pm »

And you sure as hell aren't gonna get into it going 4-8 or 7-5.

And you sure as hell aren't going to let a new coach have his shot at improving this team either are you.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #210 on: February 05, 2018, 05:16:27 pm »

And you sure as hell aren't gonna get into it going 4-8 or 7-5.

UCF got their chance this year didn't they......um hmmm....
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #211 on: February 05, 2018, 05:16:46 pm »

And you sure as hell aren't going to let a new coach have his shot at improving this team either are you.

Absolutely. I love the Morris hire. For the first time in a while I think we're about to see some really great things from the program. Doesn't mean I still don't think we'd do better under Morris in the Big 12.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #212 on: February 05, 2018, 05:16:55 pm »

UCF got their chance this year didn't they......um hmmm...

Is UCF in a P5? I've always advocated P5.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #213 on: February 05, 2018, 05:17:40 pm »

Is UCF in a P5? I've always advocated P5.

How many SEC teams in final 4 this year? 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #214 on: February 05, 2018, 05:18:21 pm »

How many SEC teams in final 4 this year?

2. What were their records? What was our record?
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #215 on: February 05, 2018, 05:26:09 pm »

Of course they improved...and they have ZERO chance of even being in the playoffs.  They still aren't going undefeated, even in their conferences.  Again...competition drop, you drop.  Thank you for making the point. 

You think we would rank 4th in recruiting after moving.  I don't agree. 

None of this matters.  The Big 12 is probably about 1K times more likely to implode than the SEC.  We're not going to move.  That's a dream of yours that will never come true. 

I would however suggest you pick a Big 12 team and root for them, because apparently you think they are going to win more and have an easier path to the NC game.  UGA says hello...not so fast. 

This is an old argument, and I'm doing arguing with you guys.  You can all pine for the glory days of the SWC by thinking and equating it to the Big 12, but that's not how it is now.  We couldn't beat T Tech and TCU, and while I don't know how our recruiting classes ranked versus them, it doesn't matter.

Yes, Houston and Rice don't have a shot at the CFP because they aren't in a P5.  Arkansas would be moving to a P5; the point was with less competition they won more. Not that complicated.

As has been said before we also beat them in 2014 and 2016. Two recent losses hold more weight than the 200 plus games Mallet pointed out above?   

Are we going to drop 50 spots in recruiting and be in the bottom third of the Big 12?  I'd reckon that's unlikely. We currently sit in the bottom third of SEC recruiting rankings year in and year out. We operate at a talent deficiency, and, shockingly, lose more games than we win in conference.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #216 on: February 05, 2018, 05:27:45 pm »

Strength of schedule will kill you if your outside the SEC.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #217 on: February 05, 2018, 05:30:04 pm »

2. What were their records? What was our record?

Yall need to quit hammering the program and understand that what your arguing about is GONE.   CBB is NO LONGER A COACH Here.  His record went with him.  If your saying that we are going to have the same record next year..fine....lets sit back and watch.  Arguing that it would be better to go beat up a 2 year old, won't fly with the committee.  I just can't believe how many people here have that hard of a time of letting go and understand that this Coach's game is going to be different, good or bad...could result in a better or worse record....good or bad....LETS WATCH! and SEE!...geeze.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #218 on: February 05, 2018, 05:32:15 pm »

Yall need to quit hammering the program and understand that what your arguing about is GONE.   CBB is NO LONGER A COACH Here.  His record went with him.  If your saying that we are going to have the same record next year..fine....lets sit back and watch.  Arguing that it would be better to go beat up a 2 year old, won't fly with the committee.


Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.

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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #219 on: February 05, 2018, 05:36:28 pm »



And your great at beating up your younger brother, looks like your tough to him.  But when the kid is 5 years old,  no one else thinks your tough.
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RebHog

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #220 on: February 05, 2018, 06:41:25 pm »

If thinking Arkansas has a better chance of winning a national championship in the Big 12 than the SEC makes you a fool, then you betcha I am.

Okay so we make the playoffs because of an easier conference slate I give you that but who are we going to play in those playoffs....ya the same teams you want to run from. Petrino had us in sniffing distance of the big game it is possible here. It shouldn't be expected year in year out because we do have a lack of in state recruits like a lot of our competition. You come across as recruiting wouldn't drop off as if it is fact when in reality no one can predict that. I do know that right now CCM can go into a recruits living room and tell him look how many SEC players are the league and that this is the best league to prepare you to make it in the NFL. 
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zeke_in_kc

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #221 on: February 05, 2018, 08:07:45 pm »

Realpolitik?

You want to be in the easiest conference where 1-2 losses can still get you in the playoff.

1. TCU went undefeated in the Mountain West and didn't play for a title?  They bailed.
2. If the SEC gives us negligible possibility of ever having a mere 1-2 losses?  We should bail.

This presumes a different conference -- with playoff position -- would offer us a better opportunity at a mere 1-2 losses.  I have no idea if that conference is the Big 12, or anyone else, over time.
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HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #222 on: February 06, 2018, 05:02:51 am »

I don't mind being South Carolina and Kentucky. That is who we are and have been for 25 years. It's okay to be mediocre.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #223 on: February 06, 2018, 07:36:43 am »

Okay so we make the playoffs because of an easier conference slate I give you that but who are we going to play in those playoffs....ya the same teams you want to run from. Petrino had us in sniffing distance of the big game it is possible here. It shouldn't be expected year in year out because we do have a lack of in state recruits like a lot of our competition. You come across as recruiting wouldn't drop off as if it is fact when in reality no one can predict that. I do know that right now CCM can go into a recruits living room and tell him look how many SEC players are the league and that this is the best league to prepare you to make it in the NFL.

We average around 25-27 in recruiting; we are normally 8-10th in recruiting rankings for the SEC. If we dropped ten spots we would be ranked 4th in Big 12 recruiting. Third if we maintained our current rankings.

2011 was our best finish in recent memory, where, at one point, we had a legitimate shot at a national title.  Didn't we STILL finish third in our DIVISION?

All of your points have been discussed. Look at the Big 12 in 2011; you think there's a chance we go undefeated? I do. Is it easier to beat OSU, OU, TCU, one of them again in the CCG, UGA, Bama or LSU, Auburn, Bama, UGA, OU and Bama again? Might I add this is assuming our rotating east conference game happens to be a down team.  The "well we'd have to play them anyway in the playoff" argument is a joke.  Is it easier to win one game in the playoff or survive a full season in the SEC? None of these championship scenarios are likely, but the Big 12 scenario is a hell of a lot more likely than the SEC one.   
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 07:58:43 am by steveaustin69 »
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #224 on: February 06, 2018, 09:49:28 am »

I don't mind being South Carolina and Kentucky. That is who we are and have been for 25 years. It's okay to be mediocre.

I hope that was sarcasm! 
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Busta_Nutt

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #225 on: February 06, 2018, 09:56:43 am »

I don't mind being South Carolina and Kentucky. That is who we are and have been for 25 years. It's okay to be mediocre.
I hope that was sarcasm! 

Why would that be sarcasm? I'd rather be the South Carolina or Kentucky athletic dept too. Overall, more success in the major sports during the past 25 years than we've had.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #226 on: February 06, 2018, 10:04:25 am »

I hope that was sarcasm!

Regular Season SEC Conference Games: USC - 89-118, Arkansas: 91-116

So we are in the same boat as USC.  USC also has zero history of national success prior to joining the SEC, making the fact that we have kept pace with them the past 25 years even worse.
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HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #227 on: February 06, 2018, 10:12:23 am »

Regular Season SEC Conference Games: USC - 89-118, Arkansas: 91-116

So we are in the same boat as USC.  USC also has zero history of national success prior to joining the SEC, making the fact that we have kept pace with them the past 25 years even worse.
Yeah, this is what I referred to. Was not sarcasm. We are, and have been, SC and KY in football. Obviously have not been KY in basketball and never will be, of course.

Again, I don't mind it. At least not Vandy. But year in, year out, we are KY, SC, Ole Miss, Missouri, Miss St in football..especially since 2000. Basically, Ark battles these programs for the next position after Texas A&M, LSU, Bama, Aub, Fla, Ga and TN.

Of those 7, TN has far and away had roughest time of it in last 10 years but that will not last. TN will end up vying for SECC again. Arkansas will not.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #228 on: February 06, 2018, 11:04:50 am »

We also beat them in 2014 and 2016, respectively.  I'll defer to my previous post again; maybe you will understand it this time:

I fully appreciate your petty attempts at being condescending, but you're basing EVERYTHING you're saying on an assumption, and that is that we will fare better in the Big 12, BECAUSE we will stay at the same level, or improve, in recruiting, and we don't face the "big bad teams" of the SEC week in and week out, so our path will be easier to the NC. 

I disagree completely, have stated my assumption, and we disagree. 

Your feeble attempt to act like your opinion and assumptions are superior shows your obvious insecurities, and goes a lot toward explaining why you think we should "step down" in competition.  When you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, right? 

I've attempted to keep this a rational debate, but if you really want to resort to insults, I'm cool with that too. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #229 on: February 06, 2018, 11:10:20 am »

Yes, Houston and Rice don't have a shot at the CFP because they aren't in a P5.  Arkansas would be moving to a P5; the point was with less competition they won more. Not that complicated.

As has been said before we also beat them in 2014 and 2016. Two recent losses hold more weight than the 200 plus games Mallet pointed out above?   

Are we going to drop 50 spots in recruiting and be in the bottom third of the Big 12?  I'd reckon that's unlikely. We currently sit in the bottom third of SEC recruiting rankings year in and year out. We operate at a talent deficiency, and, shockingly, lose more games than we win in conference.

You're finally starting to get it.  Houston and Rice have ZERO shot at a NC.  They dropped back for the allure of winning more games, with the likely hope of building the program, and one day being a part of what will ultimately be "Super Conferences" that will be the way of the future....because they didn't have a choice. 

We have a choice, and we're in the top conference.  Striving to be less....doesn't make sense to me.  It does to you, so finding common ground on this subject isn't going to happen.  We're arguing over theories and hypotheticals. 

The one common theme is this...the Big 12 is NOT a stable conference, and at any given point in time it could implode.  It would be DUMB for us to jump on that ship, hoping it stays afloat. 

So...this discussion is pointless from the word go.  Good day sir..... 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #230 on: February 06, 2018, 11:10:31 am »

I fully appreciate your petty attempts at being condescending, but you're basing EVERYTHING you're saying on an assumption, and that is that we will fare better in the Big 12, BECAUSE we will stay at the same level, or improve, in recruiting, and we don't face the "big bad teams" of the SEC week in and week out, so our path will be easier to the NC. 

I disagree completely, have stated my assumption, and we disagree. 

Your feeble attempt to act like your opinion and assumptions are superior shows your obvious insecurities, and goes a lot toward explaining why you think we should "step down" in competition.  When you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, right? 

I've attempted to keep this a rational debate, but if you really want to resort to insults, I'm cool with that too.

Are we going to drop 50 spots in recruiting and be in the bottom third of the Big 12?  I'd reckon that's unlikely. We currently sit in the bottom third of SEC recruiting rankings year in and year out. We operate at a talent deficiency, and, shockingly, lose more games than we win in conference.

Let's look at it from a historical perspective.

In 83 seasons in the SWC, 36.14% of seasons resulted in .500 or worse.
In 26 seasons in the SEC, 46.15% of seasons have resulted in .500 or worse.

Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.
Against Big 12 teams as the conference now stands, we are combined 168-151 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .527.

Yes, times have changed. Yes, recruiting landscapes have changed. Yes, money has changed. Yes, the game has changed.

But historically speaking, we have had better success against Big 12 schools. That is a hard fact. That's why I stand to believe we would have more success in the Big 12 than we would the SEC.

"B-b-b-but money!" How has money translated to more wins? We're 25 games under .500 against SEC schools. Until someone proves how many wins our SEC money has resulted in, that argument is null and void.

"B-b-b-but competition!" I want the Arkansas Razorbacks to win football games in a P5 conference that gives them an in to the playoff.

In my opinion, that road runs through the Big 12.

I pride myself on wins and victories. I don't pride myself on getting my teeth kicked in and thinking "well golly gee, I guess I gotta get better! At least I'm losing to the best in the country! It's been happening for 46% of the time for the last 26 years, so we gotta try harder and we gotta get better!" A lot easier to say than do.

Nah. Give me legitimate wins. Not feel-good losses.

Stats speak for themselves.  Numbers don't lie, bub.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #231 on: February 06, 2018, 11:14:18 am »

Yeah, this is what I referred to. Was not sarcasm. We are, and have been, SC and KY in football. Obviously have not been KY in basketball and never will be, of course.

Again, I don't mind it. At least not Vandy. But year in, year out, we are KY, SC, Ole Miss, Missouri, Miss St in football..especially since 2000. Basically, Ark battles these programs for the next position after Texas A&M, LSU, Bama, Aub, Fla, Ga and TN.

Of those 7, TN has far and away had roughest time of it in last 10 years but that will not last. TN will end up vying for SECC again. Arkansas will not.

I think you're dead wrong.  I'm not going to waste my time with history, but Fla, UGA, hell...even Bama, have gone through some down times when they made poor coaching hires, got hit with probation, etc.  We were doing fine with BP at the helm.  Don't know how long that would have lasted, and we will never know.  But...hiring a bad coach on his heels, does not doom us to the level of KY and Vandy. 

If you truly believe that, then that's just choosing to be pessimistic.  Get a good coach in here, get attendance and stadium energy back up, and we can compete better than you think.  Maybe it's Morris...maybe not...we'll see. 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #232 on: February 06, 2018, 11:16:06 am »

You're finally starting to get it.  Houston and Rice have ZERO shot at a NC.  They dropped back for the allure of winning more games, with the likely hope of building the program, and one day being a part of what will ultimately be "Super Conferences" that will be the way of the future....because they didn't have a choice. 

We have a choice, and we're in the top conference.  Striving to be less....doesn't make sense to me.  It does to you, so finding common ground on this subject isn't going to happen.  We're arguing over theories and hypotheticals. 

The one common theme is this...the Big 12 is NOT a stable conference, and at any given point in time it could implode.  It would be DUMB for us to jump on that ship, hoping it stays afloat. 

So...this discussion is pointless from the word go.  Good day sir.....

Yeah, because they aren't in a P5. Did I suggest moving to a non P5 conference?

I've supported my argument with plenty of facts and statistics; dismiss them all you want but numbers don't lie.
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ricepig

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #233 on: February 06, 2018, 11:19:24 am »

Yeah, because they aren't in a P5. Did I suggest moving to a non P5 conference?

I've supported my argument with plenty of facts and statistics; dismiss them all you want but numbers don't lie.

Figures lie, and liars figure........
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #234 on: February 06, 2018, 11:26:48 am »

I think you're dead wrong.  I'm not going to waste my time with history, but Fla, UGA, hell...even Bama, have gone through some down times when they made poor coaching hires, got hit with probation, etc.  We were doing fine with BP at the helm.  Don't know how long that would have lasted, and we will never know.  But...hiring a bad coach on his heels, does not doom us to the level of KY and Vandy. 

If you truly believe that, then that's just choosing to be pessimistic.  Get a good coach in here, get attendance and stadium energy back up, and we can compete better than you think.  Maybe it's Morris...maybe not...we'll see.

Regular Season SEC Conference Games: USC - 89-118, Arkansas: 91-116

How much data do you need? There's a 200 plus game sample under five head coaches. What am I missing?

Petrino did have us humming along pretty good. Where did we finish in the division in 2011?
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #235 on: February 06, 2018, 11:30:26 am »

I think you're dead wrong.  I'm not going to waste my time with history, but Fla, UGA, hell...even Bama, have gone through some down times when they made poor coaching hires, got hit with probation, etc.  We were doing fine with BP at the helm.  Don't know how long that would have lasted, and we will never know.  But...hiring a bad coach on his heels, does not doom us to the level of KY and Vandy. 

If you truly believe that, then that's just choosing to be pessimistic.  Get a good coach in here, get attendance and stadium energy back up, and we can compete better than you think.  Maybe it's Morris...maybe not...we'll see.

Seasons finished at or below .500

Alabama: 14 in 114 seasons.
Georgia: 30 in 114 seasons.
Florida: 32 in 106 seasons.
Arkansas: 47 in 112 seasons.

Those three you mentioned might have had some "down" periods, but they've had a whole lot more success and a whole lot fewer seasons at .500 or below.

And, to piggy-back off of my previous post full of stats and figures, we're historically and significantly better against Big 12 teams and SWC teams that are now in the Big 12 than we are against SEC teams.

To refresh:

Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against Big 12 teams as the conference now stands, we are combined 168-151 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .527.
Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.

Further, we are 7-5 against Big 12 teams since joining the SEC, for a winning percentage of .583

Historically, we have performed better against Big 12 teams than SEC teams. That is a cold, hard fact that cannot be discredited.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 11:48:06 am by RyanMallettsEgo »
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #236 on: February 06, 2018, 11:59:33 am »

Jesus, man. Working harder and wanting it more is not a quantifiable statistic. No joke we need to get better and work harder. Guess what? Every danged team in the SEC is working harder and wanting it more and getting better. I could work my ass off in a gym 20 hours a day and want to beat Isaiah Thomas in basketball more than anything in the world. Hell I'm even bigger than him. So I should be able to beat him, right? If I work REALLY HARD and want it REALLY BADLY, I should beat him by God. Right?

Reread my percentage criteria. I didn't factor in Rice, SMU, etc. because they aren't in the Big 12. I also included A&M in my SEC percentage, which actually helped that percentage since we have a winning record over them.

May not have an example of a team that dropped back and benefitted from it, but I've got an example of a team who went forward and hasn't yet benefitted from it apart from a monetary standpoint. The Arkansas Razorbacks.

I don't need to re-read it.  I get what you're trying to say, but what you're comparing it to isn't accurate, because of how much the landscape has changed in just the past few years.  Revenue sharing, TV dollars, etc...are all serving to assist the smaller programs to step up.  Remember...we lost to Toledo.  That was a "rent a win" just a few short years ago. 

Why did we leave the SWC?  That's a loaded question, and if you answer it factually, it will clearly explain why jumping back into a conference with Texas, that already has rumblings of the next "wave" of schools looking to jump ship, is a HORRIBLE idea. 

The SWC was a bunch of nobodies when they weren't cheating, and TX and Arkansas.  Period.  Not concerned with which of them are now in the Big 12, because they aren't the same schools as they were back then.  The thought that we could jump over there, and be like it was then....basically us versus TX in our best years, to determine conference champ and even possible national champ....only now it would be OU....not realistic. 

Just take OU alone.  We are already competing with them in TX for recruits right?  That's where most of their roster comes from.  Right now...we compete with them, but we have a completely different scenario than them...different conference.  What happens when we're now competitors and in the same conference?  "Why would you want to play for them...we own Arkansas, and look at our NC's versus theirs, and our tradition.  Do you want to play for a school that we're going to kill every year?" 

Maybe I'm completely wrong, and we would continue recruiting at our current level, and we would curb stomp everyone in the Big 12, and only have to beat OU for a path to the NC.  It doesn't matter...because it's an unstable conference, and at some point there will be super conferences and the landscape will look totally different.  For now...we're not going to leave the SEC's stability for that potential Chernobyl. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #237 on: February 06, 2018, 12:04:01 pm »

I don't need to re-read it.  I get what you're trying to say, but what you're comparing it to isn't accurate, because of how much the landscape has changed in just the past few years.  Revenue sharing, TV dollars, etc...are all serving to assist the smaller programs to step up.  Remember...we lost to Toledo.  That was a "rent a win" just a few short years ago. 

Why did we leave the SWC?  That's a loaded question, and if you answer it factually, it will clearly explain why jumping back into a conference with Texas, that already has rumblings of the next "wave" of schools looking to jump ship, is a HORRIBLE idea. 

The SWC was a bunch of nobodies when they weren't cheating, and TX and Arkansas.  Period.  Not concerned with which of them are now in the Big 12, because they aren't the same schools as they were back then.  The thought that we could jump over there, and be like it was then....basically us versus TX in our best years, to determine conference champ and even possible national champ....only now it would be OU....not realistic. 

Just take OU alone.  We are already competing with them in TX for recruits right?  That's where most of their roster comes from.  Right now...we compete with them, but we have a completely different scenario than them...different conference.  What happens when we're now competitors and in the same conference?  "Why would you want to play for them...we own Arkansas, and look at our NC's versus theirs, and our tradition.  Do you want to play for a school that we're going to kill every year?" 

Maybe I'm completely wrong, and we would continue recruiting at our current level, and we would curb stomp everyone in the Big 12, and only have to beat OU for a path to the NC.  It doesn't matter...because it's an unstable conference, and at some point there will be super conferences and the landscape will look totally different.  For now...we're not going to leave the SEC's stability for that potential Chernobyl.

Still waiting on some solid, undeniable stats and facts to support your claims, just like I've provided to you.

I'll even give you a new one.

Prior to joining the SEC, we were 76-76 against SEC teams for a winning percentage of .500.
Since joining the SEC, we are 95-120 against SEC teams for a winning percentage of .442.

Every. Single. Way. You. Shake. It. we have performed better against Big 12 teams than SEC teams. Since joining the SEC, our overall winning percentages and winning percentages against conference teams have decreased.

Facts.

Keep rakin' in that money, though.
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ricepig

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #238 on: February 06, 2018, 12:23:43 pm »

Still waiting on some solid, undeniable stats and facts to support your claims, just like I've provided to you.

I'll even give you a new one.

Prior to joining the SEC, we were 76-76 against SEC teams for a winning percentage of .500.
Since joining the SEC, we are 95-120 against SEC teams for a winning percentage of .442.

Every. Single. Way. You. Shake. It. we have performed better against Big 12 teams than SEC teams. Since joining the SEC, our overall winning percentages and winning percentages against conference teams have decreased.

Facts.

Keep rakin' in that money, though.

We will, we aren't changing conferences if we don't win a conference game for the next 10 years, lol.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #239 on: February 06, 2018, 12:29:20 pm »

We will, we aren't changing conferences if we don't win a conference game for the next 10 years, lol.

I know we aren't. That's not the premise of my argument whatsoever. The premise is "we would do better in football as a member of the Big 12 and here are historical stats to back that up," not "we're going to the Big 12 and here's why that's a good thing."
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #240 on: February 06, 2018, 12:46:34 pm »

And you can't prove how joining the SEC has helped the Arkansas Razorbacks football team apart from a monetary standpoint.

More seasons at .500 or below.
Lower winning percentage against conference foes.
What else...

...and coaches that weren't nearly as good as Broyles, Holtz, and Hatfield either...right?  I hear what you're saying..."We haven't done well to this point in 15 years, so what's going to change?" 

Well...in the one brief period that we had a coach that was a difference maker, we were pretty solid.  Really close right?  Got unlucky that the one year we were really solid, Bama and LSU were in the NC game. 

Guess what...that could just as easily happen in two years if we joined the Big 12 right?  "Man..the Hogs looked great, but that loss to TX killed their chances"....just like the LSU loss did for us right?

I contend that HDN, and BB are not great examples of how we can fare in the SEC.  BP showed that we're not incapable of competiting.  I may take an influx of in state talent that is unusual, like what he had, but in my mind...us beating Bama and or LSU (who btw, we may see how much difference a coach makes with that example)...isn't much different than beating OU, OSU, or TX (who will be good again, and another example of a program that has suffered some coaching woes). 

I get it...you want to see us win.  But realistically...is beating up on Kansas really going to make you feel better about the Razorbacks?   
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #241 on: February 06, 2018, 12:52:28 pm »

I know we aren't. That's not the premise of my argument whatsoever. The premise is "we would do better in football as a member of the Big 12 and here are historical stats to back that up," not "we're going to the Big 12 and here's why that's a good thing."

Dude..you're extrapolating that data.  That's NOT factual.  You cannot say that.  You have NO clue how that move would affect recruiting, and you also have no idea how we would fare versus vastly improved teams. 

I love it that you're just throwing that out there like it's a fact.  That's like me saying..."You know, Tiger Woods would be even more famous if he had played in Europe, because he would have won every single tournament against that competition." 

Would he?  Dunno...maybe those guys play better on those style courses and in those conditions, and he wouldn't have won everything he entered.  Some would argue that playing against lesser competition affects everything from your approach to practice, to your mental acuity.  If it doesn't..then how do you explain how playing against better opponents makes people improve? 

I love it...the Big 12 is the answer to every fan's woes.  /sarcasm   

FACT  The Big 12 is infinitely more likely to fold up like a cheap tent that then SEC.  That right there is reason enough to put our big boy pants on and get busy improving, rather than jumping to a listing ship. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #242 on: February 06, 2018, 12:52:50 pm »


I get it...you want to see us win.  But realistically...is beating up on Kansas really going to make you feel better about the Razorbacks?   

Still no facts or figures I see.

And yes. Beating Kansas results in a W which makes me feel better about the Arkansas Razorbacks. As would beating literally any team we play.

Does beating Florida A&M not make you feel better about the Arkansas Razorbacks? Does beating Vanderbilt or Kentucky? A win is a win is a win, no matter how badly you wanna spin it against "lesser" competition.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #243 on: February 06, 2018, 12:57:06 pm »

No it's not. These are factual numbers and statistics.

Also --- your post reads as though you're against racking up wins. Hey if you don't wanna win, that's not my problem. Keep bragging about that SEC money and having losing conference records more often than not.

Wow...Hogville, redefining what facts are, one day at a time.  You haven't posted a single fact in this thread.  You posted statistics, but they are loosely related to the POSSIBILITIES that a move would cause, and that's being generous.

Geez....this is starting to get comical.       
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #244 on: February 06, 2018, 12:58:19 pm »

Dude..you're extrapolating that data.  That's NOT factual.  You cannot say that.  You have NO clue how that move would affect recruiting, and you also have no idea how we would fare versus vastly improved teams. 

I love it that you're just throwing that out there like it's a fact.  That's like me saying..."You know, Tiger Woods would be even more famous if he had played in Europe, because he would have won every single tournament against that competition." 

Would he?  Dunno...maybe those guys play better on those style courses and in those conditions, and he wouldn't have won everything he entered.  Some would argue that playing against lesser competition affects everything from your approach to practice, to your mental acuity.  If it doesn't..then how do you explain how playing against better opponents makes people improve? 

I love it...the Big 12 is the answer to every fan's woes.  /sarcasm   

FACT  The Big 12 is infinitely more likely to fold up like a cheap tent that then SEC.  That right there is reason enough to put our big boy pants on and get busy improving, rather than jumping to a listing ship.

You don't understand what the word "premise" means, do you?

Here: I propose a premise. A theory. A hypothesis. I then use facts and statistics to support my premise/theory/hypothesis. Then, I draw a conclusion based on presentation of facts.

Premise: I believe we would do better in the Big 12. (Notice I didn't say we WILL do better in the Big 12)

Supporting facts/stats:
1. We have performed better against Big 12 teams historically both before and after entering the SEC.
2. We even performed better against SEC teams before we entered the SEC.
3. Once we entered the SEC, we still outperformed Big 12 teams, but our winning percentages against fellow SEC teams decreased.
4. Our percentage of seasons at .500 or below is worse since joining the SEC than it was before.

Conclusion: I believe we would* win more football games in the Big 12.

*Would is key here. Not will. Would.


I have provided multiple records, stats, and facts. I have seen none from you. Nothing but speculation. We can agree to disagree, but I'm not arguing with someone who doesn't use facts.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #245 on: February 06, 2018, 12:58:47 pm »

Wow...Hogville, redefining what facts are, one day at a time.  You haven't posted a single fact in this thread.  You posted statistics, but they are loosely related to the POSSIBILITIES that a move would cause, and that's being generous.

Geez....this is starting to get comical.       

?!?!??!

We are 171-196 against SEC times all-time. That is a [CENSORED] fact, dude. Every winning percentage and record I have posted in this thread is a FACT that can be VERIFIED. You say darn like "well the Big 12 is about to implode." That's called conjecture. That's not a fact.

I'm gonna end this before I get banned. A person who doesn't understand this stuff ain't worth my time.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #246 on: February 06, 2018, 12:59:16 pm »

...and coaches that weren't nearly as good as Broyles, Holtz, and Hatfield either...right?  I hear what you're saying..."We haven't done well to this point in 15 years, so what's going to change?" 

Well...in the one brief period that we had a coach that was a difference maker, we were pretty solid.  Really close right?  Got unlucky that the one year we were really solid, Bama and LSU were in the NC game. 

Guess what...that could just as easily happen in two years if we joined the Big 12 right?  "Man..the Hogs looked great, but that loss to TX killed their chances"....just like the LSU loss did for us right?

I contend that HDN, and BB are not great examples of how we can fare in the SEC.  BP showed that we're not incapable of competiting.  I may take an influx of in state talent that is unusual, like what he had, but in my mind...us beating Bama and or LSU (who btw, we may see how much difference a coach makes with that example)...isn't much different than beating OU, OSU, or TX (who will be good again, and another example of a program that has suffered some coaching woes). 

I get it...you want to see us win.  But realistically...is beating up on Kansas really going to make you feel better about the Razorbacks?   

Nutt's SEC Regular Season Conference winning percentage was 53%; Arkansas' winning percentage excluding Nutt is 39%.  For all his flaws Houston beat SEC teams at a higher clip than our program history average.

In Petrino's best year where did we finish in our division?

Is it easier to beat TCU, OSU, OU, one of them again in the CCG or Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and UGA?

Yes, I would rather beat the snot out of Kansas than lose to Alabama. I like to win.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #247 on: February 06, 2018, 01:01:33 pm »

Wow...Hogville, redefining what facts are, one day at a time.  You haven't posted a single fact in this thread.  You posted statistics, but they are loosely related to the POSSIBILITIES that a move would cause, and that's being generous.

Geez....this is starting to get comical.       

statistic: a fact or piece of data from a study of a large quantity of numerical data

In case you don't believe me here you go: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=statistic
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #248 on: February 06, 2018, 01:01:51 pm »

Still no facts or figures I see.

And yes. Beating Kansas results in a W which makes me feel better about the Arkansas Razorbacks. As would beating literally any team we play.

Does beating Florida A&M not make you feel better about the Arkansas Razorbacks? Does beating Vanderbilt or Kentucky? A win is a win is a win, no matter how badly you wanna spin it against "lesser" competition.

OK, so now I know what level character I'm dealing with.  You'd rather win, and don't care at all about the level of competition. 

Argue with yourself...you can't be the best without beating the best, and you don't do that by playing lesser competition.  If you truly believe that, then you're no competitor. 

Let me guess...you're also a big proponent of the saying, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" too right? 

C'mon man...OU is Bama, TX is LSU, and OSU is Auburn.  You're acting like we would run over everyone there...same scenario, you have to BEAT THE BEST, TO BE THE BEST.     

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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #249 on: February 06, 2018, 01:03:58 pm »

OK, so now I know what level character I'm dealing with. You'd rather win, and don't care at all about the level of competition. 

Argue with yourself...you can't be the best without beating the best, and you don't do that by playing lesser competition.  If you truly believe that, then you're no competitor. 

Let me guess...you're also a big proponent of the saying, "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" too right? 

C'mon man...OU is Bama, TX is LSU, and OSU is Auburn.  You're acting like we would run over everyone there...same scenario, you have to BEAT THE BEST, TO BE THE BEST.     

And I see the level of intellect I'm dealing with here.

Gotta just try harder, right my man? Gotta want it more, right?

Have a good one.
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