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Author Topic: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season  (Read 7452 times)

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Hou-Hog

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #150 on: February 02, 2018, 05:38:07 pm »

Bold seems a little redundant.

Direct competition, strong fundamentals. Seems like a move you'd want to make, doesn't it?

I agree, it would likely run into some legal issues. But aside from Amazon being highly levered can you please explain to me why Wal-Mart would not WANT to do it?
i have to agree, it is humorous to think that folks on this board think that Wal-Mart could possibly purchase Amazon.  There is no chance.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #151 on: February 02, 2018, 05:44:40 pm »

If thinking Arkansas has a better chance of winning a national championship in the Big 12 than the SEC makes you a fool, then you betcha I am.

Why?  How?  Didn't we just recently get beat by TCU and Texas Tech?  Do you think there's any way we would have beaten OU or OSU?  Even K-state, maybe even TX last year? 

I just don't understand the concept that we would move to the Big 12 and mop up.  I don't see it. 

You're going on and on about how OU should have beat UGA, but doesn't that just shoot holes in your argument?  Do we REALLY want to go be second fiddle to OU and TX?  Does that change ANYTHING?  TX won't stay down long...don't kid yourself. 

What difference would it be getting curb stomped, trying to figure out how to beat OU versus trying to beat Bama?  What would be different? 

I just think it's funny...we can't beat Toledo, and some fans think that all we have to do is show up, and the Big 12 will just hand us the conference title.  I don't see any evidence of that at all. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #152 on: February 02, 2018, 05:46:29 pm »

i have to agree, it is humorous to think that folks on this board think that Wal-Mart could possibly purchase Amazon.  There is no chance.

But...as we sit here and type, Walmart is hiring the smartest minds, and working HARD to try to topple Amazon.  We'll see if they can do it, because it will be a primary focus moving forward.  Maybe it will be like us trying to beat Bama.   ;)
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #153 on: February 02, 2018, 06:06:54 pm »

Their payout was around $35M a team.  Interested to see how those 5 extra mil are gonna translate to Ws on the field.
they actually translate directly into losses....
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LRRandy

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #154 on: February 02, 2018, 06:45:26 pm »

i have to agree, it is humorous to think that folks on this board think that Wal-Mart could possibly purchase Amazon.  There is no chance.
what if they ordered it online
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #155 on: February 02, 2018, 06:55:08 pm »

i have to agree, it is humorous to think that folks on this board think that Wal-Mart could possibly purchase Amazon.  There is no chance.

That not a chance statement has been made by a lot of people plenty of times in business deals only to be wrong.
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HoggyCat

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #156 on: February 02, 2018, 08:00:49 pm »

So your logic is that the SEC is a far superior conference and the BIG 12 is trash. But if we moved to the BIG 12 it wouldnt translate to more wins? Yep that makes sense....

We’re in the SEC playing against Big 12 opponents now. We beat 2 HORRIBLE big 12 teams in bowls and split home & home series against TCU & TT.
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tophawg19

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #157 on: February 02, 2018, 09:31:13 pm »

What do we add to the SEC footprint?
very respectable teams in football, basketball ,baseball and track.
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Karma

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #158 on: February 02, 2018, 10:26:50 pm »

Is it a takeover, or are they buying them? In either case, it only takes money, it doesn't have to be your own.
You would argue with a wall. Even when the wall is right.
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hobhog

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #159 on: February 02, 2018, 11:24:01 pm »

We should move to big 12 and make less money. And play Arkansas state.
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ricepig

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #160 on: February 03, 2018, 08:07:47 am »

You would argue with a wall. Even when the wall is right.

Find some fallacy in my point, or go away little boy.
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26.2Hog

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #161 on: February 03, 2018, 08:24:20 am »

Is it a takeover, or are they buying them? In either case, it only takes money, it doesn't have to be your own.

In this case it would take more than money.  It would also take the approval of the FTC.
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ricepig

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #162 on: February 03, 2018, 08:26:33 am »

In this case it would take more than money.  It would also take the approval of the FTC.

True, but the point is, smaller companies have bought out larger companies before. I don't see it in this particular case ever happening, but that it's not an impossibility.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #163 on: February 03, 2018, 08:33:38 am »

Not necessarily, we could have beaten only one of them, as long as every other West team has two losses, and we only have one.

This revisionist history assumes we win all of our games.  Not gonna change the variables of other teams, unless it is a change from W/L against us. In this scenario, I'll concede on second look, I don't believe we would have had to beat both; win vs. Auburn and loss vs. Alabama would create a three way tie. I believe we would go to Atlanta over Bama on non divisional opponent's conference winning percentage tie breaker. 

Point was, as I'm sure you understood, to get a shot at the playoff you still had to play and in most years probably beat three teams in contention for the playoff in the final weeks.  The road to the playoff in most years would be easier in the Big 12 than the SECW; I don't think there's much of an argument against that.

On another note, while we normally don't agree, I appreciate a differing view point who knows their stuff and can back it up with sources, facts, etc.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #164 on: February 03, 2018, 08:47:45 am »

Why?  How?  Didn't we just recently get beat by TCU and Texas Tech?  Do you think there's any way we would have beaten OU or OSU?  Even K-state, maybe even TX last year? 

I just don't understand the concept that we would move to the Big 12 and mop up.  I don't see it. 

You're going on and on about how OU should have beat UGA, but doesn't that just shoot holes in your argument?  Do we REALLY want to go be second fiddle to OU and TX?  Does that change ANYTHING?  TX won't stay down long...don't kid yourself. 

What difference would it be getting curb stomped, trying to figure out how to beat OU versus trying to beat Bama?  What would be different? 

I just think it's funny...we can't beat Toledo, and some fans think that all we have to do is show up, and the Big 12 will just hand us the conference title.  I don't see any evidence of that at all.

Hate to break it to you, but we're currently sixth or seventh fiddle in just our division let alone the whole conference.

Which of these is more likely for the Hogs to accomplish: beat TCU, OSU, OU, and then one of the three again in the CCG, or beat Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and Georgia.

I don't think anyone is insinuating we would dominate the Big 12, but that season every 5-7 years where we catch lightning in a bottle we'd probably play in the CFP.  2011 was our best finish in recent memory, where, at one point, we had a legitimate shot at a national title.  Didn't we STILL finish third in our DIVISION?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 09:04:11 am by steveaustin69 »
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longtimeHogfan

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #165 on: February 03, 2018, 09:02:20 am »

We've been in the SEC a quarter century with next to no results. I wouldn't hold your breath.

At my age Mrs. Longtime panics if she sees me holding my breath.  She won't even let me buy green bananas. 
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Karma

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2018, 11:07:18 am »

Find some fallacy in my point, or go away little boy.
Your point is that the big 12 wouldn't accept us. That's your opinion. It's not a fact you pompous numbskull.
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ricepig

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #167 on: February 03, 2018, 11:53:34 am »

Your point is that the big 12 wouldn't accept us. That's your opinion. It's not a fact you pompous numbskull.

How about keeping up, you quoted a post I had on a buyout, nothing to do with the Big 12, lol.

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Silver Hog

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #168 on: February 03, 2018, 01:42:01 pm »

That's our disability payment, we didn't earn it this year. Maybe next.
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LZH

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #169 on: February 04, 2018, 03:50:26 am »

I'd trade wins for less money. But hey thats just me. But by all means lets continue to get paid a ton to get our bell rung every year.

My guess is the only fights you got into were against puny kids. If a grown ass man-child called you out, you'd probably moonwalk right out of that situation.

When are you guys gonna get that it's our fault for not beating the better SEC teams? It's up to us to get better. You wanna play Kansas every year but playing Arkansas State is blasphemy?

Butch up and grow a pair.
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East Clintwood

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #170 on: February 04, 2018, 12:43:50 pm »

We better enjoy this big check because there won't be any more big checks coming in the future.

This check is only this huge because last year we had the most wonderfulest and greatest athletic directer in the whole sports world.

Unfortunately,  in a mistake typical for Arkansas athletics, we fired this most bestest of AD's thereby dooming us to the cellar of the conference and economic ruin.

Only Jeffy could have saved us.

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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #171 on: February 05, 2018, 12:01:49 pm »

Hate to break it to you, but we're currently sixth or seventh fiddle in just our division let alone the whole conference.

Which of these is more likely for the Hogs to accomplish: beat TCU, OSU, OU, and then one of the three again in the CCG, or beat Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and Georgia.

I don't think anyone is insinuating we would dominate the Big 12, but that season every 5-7 years where we catch lightning in a bottle we'd probably play in the CFP.  2011 was our best finish in recent memory, where, at one point, we had a legitimate shot at a national title.  Didn't we STILL finish third in our DIVISION?

Again..this falls squarely under the heading of, "If you set your goals low enough, you'll accomplish them every time." 

Someone used the Walmart example with regard to competition.  If Walmart was to completely shy away from internet sales, and just bow to Amazon...what would happen?  They would slowly become irrelevant as people become more and more about staying home for shopping, and less about going to the big store to fight the crowds and sick people. 

You don't back down from the competition, you rise up to it.  We've talked about this ad nauseum, and I guess it's just a mentality.  I would rather go get my teeth kicked in by someone better than me at the golf course, because I'll be forced to get better.  Some people would rather go play with lesser competition and be perfectly happy with always winning if they just play their normal game. 

It's fine...I understand it's a mentality, and it differs greatly.  Something that's easy to get, isn't worth having.  Sorry..that's just how I view things, and we are obviously on the opposite side of the fence. 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #172 on: February 05, 2018, 12:15:14 pm »

Again..this falls squarely under the heading of, "If you set your goals low enough, you'll accomplish them every time." 

Someone used the Walmart example with regard to competition.  If Walmart was to completely shy away from internet sales, and just bow to Amazon...what would happen?  They would slowly become irrelevant as people become more and more about staying home for shopping, and less about going to the big store to fight the crowds and sick people. 

You don't back down from the competition, you rise up to it.  We've talked about this ad nauseum, and I guess it's just a mentality.  I would rather go get my teeth kicked in by someone better than me at the golf course, because I'll be forced to get better. Some people would rather go play with lesser competition and be perfectly happy with always winning if they just play their normal game. 

It's fine...I understand it's a mentality, and it differs greatly.  Something that's easy to get, isn't worth having.  Sorry..that's just how I view things, and we are obviously on the opposite side of the fence.

We haven't risen up in 25 years, but I am sure if we try harder we will get better.
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LZH

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #173 on: February 05, 2018, 12:19:19 pm »

Again..this falls squarely under the heading of, "If you set your goals low enough, you'll accomplish them every time." 

You don't back down from the competition, you rise up to it.  We've talked about this ad nauseum, and I guess it's just a mentality.  I would rather go get my teeth kicked in by someone better than me at the golf course, because I'll be forced to get better.  Some people would rather go play with lesser competition and be perfectly happy with always winning if they just play their normal game.

I'm teeing off from the ladies' box!!!
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #174 on: February 05, 2018, 12:19:52 pm »

It would be closer to $29m, unless the school we would be partnered with was bringing a large TV audience. $350m split 12 ways instead of 10.

TV balked at adding teams to the B12 that didn’t increase viewership.  Do you think Arkansas is in that category?

By the way, I watched quite a lot of B12 games this year simply because I wasn’t interested in a lot of SEC games.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #175 on: February 05, 2018, 12:31:11 pm »

We haven't risen up in 25 years, but I am sure if we try harder we will get better.

Again...you're assuming that by moving to what you OBVIOUSLY perceive as a weaker conference, we will stay strong and not drop to the level that the Big 12 is.  Why would that happen?  Outside of OU, and not even sure about them, the rigors of playing in the SEC would wear down the Big 12.  I guess you're insinuating that if we move over there, we'll keep the same level of toughness it takes to take the pounding week in and week out, which would give us an advantage?  Again, why would that continue if we're playing lesser opponents every week?  It wouldn't....we would slide down relative to the level of competition, and we have nowhere near the relationships, reputation, or pull that OU has.  Wouldn't they just be our new Bama? 

I have every reason to believe that if we're managing around 30-35 most years in recruiting rankings, we would expect that to slide back if we leave the SEC.  Couple that with playing lesser competition every week, and pretty soon we're the Texas Tech of the Big 12 aren't we?

Sorry...I just think we have to get the pieces and parts in place to do better, not drop down to succeed.   
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #176 on: February 05, 2018, 12:37:03 pm »

Again...you're assuming that by moving to what you OBVIOUSLY perceive as a weaker conference, we will stay strong and not drop to the level that the Big 12 is.  Why would that happen?  Outside of OU, and not even sure about them, the rigors of playing in the SEC would wear down the Big 12.  I guess you're insinuating that if we move over there, we'll keep the same level of toughness it takes to take the pounding week in and week out, which would give us an advantage?  Again, why would that continue if we're playing lesser opponents every week?  It wouldn't....we would slide down relative to the level of competition, and we have nowhere near the relationships, reputation, or pull that OU has.  Wouldn't they just be our new Bama? 

I have every reason to believe that if we're managing around 30-35 most years in recruiting rankings, we would expect that to slide back if we leave the SEC.  Couple that with playing lesser competition every week, and pretty soon we're the Texas Tech of the Big 12 aren't we?

Sorry...I just think we have to get the pieces and parts in place to do better, not drop down to succeed.   

There it is again; we just need to get better. I'd say that is probably a good call.

We average around 25-27 in recruiting; we are normally 8-10th in recruiting rankings for the SEC. If we dropped ten spots we would be ranked 4th in Big 12 recruiting. Third if we maintained our current rankings.

Nice try.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #177 on: February 05, 2018, 12:44:31 pm »

I'm teeing off from the ladies' box!!!

Yep...same analogy.  It would be like a minor league pitcher who was making just enough to have an apartment and drive a Camry thinking..."Yeah, I don't want to work any harder than I am now.  No desire to get to the big leagues at all.  Those guys up there can really hit.  I'll stay down here where the competition isn't as tough and be perfectly content." 

Maybe that enough for some people...but I don't even fathom that mentality.  I'm old and I still compete in anything I'm involved with, and I'd rather get wrecked by someone good and learn from it, than beat the snot out of someone far less skilled.  Hollow victory. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #178 on: February 05, 2018, 12:50:13 pm »

Yep...same analogy.  It would be like a minor league pitcher who was making just enough to have an apartment and drive a Camry thinking..."Yeah, I don't want to work any harder than I am now.  No desire to get to the big leagues at all.  Those guys up there can really hit.  I'll stay down here where the competition isn't as tough and be perfectly content." 

Maybe that enough for some people...but I don't even fathom that mentality.  I'm old and I still compete in anything I'm involved with, and I'd rather get wrecked by someone good and learn from it, than beat the snot out of someone far less skilled.  Hollow victory.

No it wouldn't. You'd be replaced on the roster by another minor league pitcher in about 2 seconds.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #179 on: February 05, 2018, 12:52:54 pm »

There it is again; we just need to get better. I'd say that is probably a good call.

We average around 25-27 in recruiting; we are normally 8-10th in recruiting rankings for the SEC. If we dropped ten spots we would be ranked 4th in Big 12 recruiting. Third if we maintained our current rankings.

Nice try.

Again...you're EXTRAPOLATING that we would stay where we are.  It's probably safe to assume that we would drop back significantly.  Where would our players come from?  Now a player that's considering us or TCU can just stay home and be closer right? 

Sorry...you're making a lot of assumptions, and you're missing my point.  WHEN YOU DROP IN COMPETITION, you drop EVERYWHERE.  That's just how it works.  While we're at it...can you name a team that left a big conference, and landed somewhere and just dominated, and has managed to IMPROVE themselves nationally?  I can't think of one.  You're talking about a model that doesn't exist...  Drop in competition, and you drop.  It's true in ANY sport. 

Play tennis with guys that murder you...you'll improve.  Play basketball with guys that school you...you'll improve.  Play those sports with people that you're already better than, and you'll stay where you are, or go backward. 

Why do you think football is any different?  It's not.  We would drop back..and be mid-pack or so with our up years being higher, very similar to where we are in the SEC.  Why?  Because Arkansas is a small state, and we fight Texas for recruits.  Take away the allure of the SEC and how many NFL players come from that conference, and you're left competing with the Texas teams on an even more level playing field. 

Oh never mind.  Let's just drop clear back to the Sunbelt and beat up on everyone for about 3 years, based solely on what we have now and our facilities.  Then when the money goes away, and the level of competition isn't there, we'll stay right where we are...I'm sure of it.   ::)  /sarcasm. 

Do you see how silly it sounds when you just take it a LITTLE step further?  It's no different. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #180 on: February 05, 2018, 12:55:04 pm »

No it wouldn't. You'd be replaced on the roster by another minor league pitcher in about 2 seconds.

That's my point...thank you.  You CANNOT lose the desire to compete at the highest level, or you go backward.  There is no "status quo."  Drop back in competition, you will drop back period. 

The guys who move up from the minors put in the extra effort, and go the extra mile.  They realize they can't lurk in the minors.  Is there ONE single example of a football team that decided they couldn't cut it, dropped back, and were successful long term?  I can't think of any. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #181 on: February 05, 2018, 12:57:39 pm »

That's my point...thank you.  You CANNOT lose the desire to compete at the highest level, or you go backward.  There is no "status quo."  Drop back in competition, you will drop back period. 

The guys who move up from the minors put in the extra effort, and go the extra mile.  They realize they can't lurk in the minors.  Is there ONE single example of a football team that decided they couldn't cut it, dropped back, and were successful long term?  I can't think of any.

What if that pitcher has hit his ceiling in one organization and he's not doing so hot and has incredibly average years with some good and really bad years sporadically thrown in, but then he's traded to another organization that's a better fit for him and he flourishes?
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #182 on: February 05, 2018, 12:58:08 pm »

Again...you're EXTRAPOLATING that we would stay where we are.  It's probably safe to assume that we would drop back significantly.  Where would our players come from?  Now a player that's considering us or TCU can just stay home and be closer right? 

Sorry...you're making a lot of assumptions, and you're missing my point.  WHEN YOU DROP IN COMPETITION, you drop EVERYWHERE.  That's just how it works.  While we're at it...can you name a team that left a big conference, and landed somewhere and just dominated, and has managed to IMPROVE themselves nationally?  I can think of one.  You're talking about a model that doesn't exist...  Drop in competition, and you drop.  It's true in ANY sport. 

Play tennis with guys that murder you...you'll improve.  Play basketball with guys that school you...you'll improve.  Play those sports with people that you're already better than, and you'll stay where you are, or go backward. 

Why do you think football is any different?  It's not.  We would drop back..and be mid-pack or so with our up years being higher, very similar to where we are in the SEC.  Why?  Because Arkansas is a small state, and we fight Texas for recruits.  Take away the allure of the SEC and how many NFL players come from that conference, and you're left competing with the Texas teams on an even more level playing field. 

Oh never mind.  Let's just drop clear back to the Sunbelt and beat up on everyone for about 3 years, based solely on what we have now and our facilities.  Then when the money goes away, and the level of competition isn't there, we'll stay right where we are. 

Do you see how silly it sounds when you just take it a LITTLE step further?  It's no different.

Has this higher level of competition made our program more successful over the past quarter century?
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Busta_Nutt

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #183 on: February 05, 2018, 12:59:51 pm »

Has this higher level of competition made our program more successful over the past quarter century?

NO.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #184 on: February 05, 2018, 03:56:04 pm »

Has this higher level of competition made our program more successful over the past quarter century?

Compared to what?  Compared to what we would be doing in the Big 12?  To what we did in the SWC?  What's your barometer? 

Are you just assuming we would do better elsewhere?     

I'm still awaiting an example of a team that left a major conference for a lower level, and has had continued success after "dropping back."  Crickets...as expected.   
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #185 on: February 05, 2018, 04:02:47 pm »

What if that pitcher has hit his ceiling in one organization and he's not doing so hot and has incredibly average years with some good and really bad years sporadically thrown in, but then he's traded to another organization that's a better fit for him and he flourishes?

What if ifs and butts were candy and nuts?  We'd all have a Merry Christmas right? 

I think the analogy was lost in the mix somewhere.  The point is...you're always striving for the highest level of competition if you want to improve and be the best.  It's why Bama and the prominent programs play top programs in OOC play isn't it? 

The pitcher example was about work ethic and desire.  But...if we took your example and say that he's traded, and gets another trainer and maybe someone who is very adept at identifying weaknesses so he can focus on overcoming them....absolutely.  If he gets traded and expects things to go better without changing something, then no. 

It's apples to oranges.  It would be like a minor league pitcher thinking AAA is too tough, and wanting to go back to AA.  See the difference?

We're talking about taking less money, and playing in a conference that's viewed to be weaker by most.  The path to the NC would not be any easier after about year 2 or 3.  We would water down to that level. 

We lost to TCU and TT in our last two attempts against the Big 12.  But...we're going to jump over there and challenge OU and have an easier path to the NC.  Pull my other leg... 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #186 on: February 05, 2018, 04:08:45 pm »

Compared to what?  Compared to what we would be doing in the Big 12?  To what we did in the SWC?  What's your barometer? 

Are you just assuming we would do better elsewhere?     

I'm still awaiting an example of a team that left a major conference for a lower level, and has had continued success after "dropping back."  Crickets...as expected.   

Which of these is more likely for the Hogs to accomplish: beat TCU, OSU, OU, and then one of the three again in the CCG, or beat Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and Georgia.


During the last round of conference realignment we effectively made superconferences (hence the P5 distinction.) Miami's schedule, as an example, got more difficult by joining the ACC. 

That's your argument? It hasn't been done before, so that means we'd fail?  Great argument.

Since you deflected the question I'll ask again. How has all this competition made Arkansas better?  Do we have some Championship trophies I am forgetting about?
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #187 on: February 05, 2018, 04:12:42 pm »

What if ifs and butts were candy and nuts?  We'd all have a Merry Christmas right? 

I think the analogy was lost in the mix somewhere.  The point is...you're always striving for the highest level of competition if you want to improve and be the best.  It's why Bama and the prominent programs play top programs in OOC play isn't it? 

The pitcher example was about work ethic and desire.  But...if we took your example and say that he's traded, and gets another trainer and maybe someone who is very adept at identifying weaknesses so he can focus on overcoming them....absolutely.  If he gets traded and expects things to go better without changing something, then no. 

It's apples to oranges.  It would be like a minor league pitcher thinking AAA is too tough, and wanting to go back to AA.  See the difference?

We're talking about taking less money, and playing in a conference that's viewed to be weaker by most.  The path to the NC would not be any easier after about year 2 or 3.  We would water down to that level. 

We lost to TCU and TT in our last two attempts against the Big 12. But...we're going to jump over there and challenge OU and have an easier path to the NC.  Pull my other leg...

We also beat them in 2014 and 2016, respectively.  I'll defer to my previous post again; maybe you will understand it this time:

Which of these is more likely for the Hogs to accomplish: beat TCU, OSU, OU, and then one of the three again in the CCG, or beat Alabama, LSU, Auburn, and Georgia.

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LA Football fan

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #188 on: February 05, 2018, 04:21:21 pm »

What if ifs and butts were candy and nuts?  We'd all have a Merry Christmas right? 

I think the analogy was lost in the mix somewhere.  The point is...you're always striving for the highest level of competition if you want to improve and be the best.  It's why Bama and the prominent programs play top programs in OOC play isn't it? 

The pitcher example was about work ethic and desire.  But...if we took your example and say that he's traded, and gets another trainer and maybe someone who is very adept at identifying weaknesses so he can focus on overcoming them....absolutely.  If he gets traded and expects things to go better without changing something, then no. 

It's apples to oranges.  It would be like a minor league pitcher thinking AAA is too tough, and wanting to go back to AA.  See the difference?

We're talking about taking less money, and playing in a conference that's viewed to be weaker by most.  The path to the NC would not be any easier after about year 2 or 3.  We would water down to that level. 

We lost to TCU and TT in our last two attempts against the Big 12.  But...we're going to jump over there and challenge OU and have an easier path to the NC.  Pull my other leg... 

What is keeping us from striving for the best in the Big 12????   We didn't seem to have a problem when in the SWC in recruiting players to compete for championships.   Why has that changed???  We would still be recruiting the SAME areas we do now, we would be playing closer to our recruiting area week in and week out,  the local media would have more coverage of our program in the recruiting area in large part due to playing d1 teams in their coverage areas.  It is your OPINION that we would drop but until we make the move that is all it is.  You haven't proven anything but make statements that can only be proven by changing conferences and seeing the results. 

What is not opinion, is that we have been nothing more than middle of the pack in the SEC since joining, and even in one of our best years we STILL finished third in our division, much less the entire SEC.  The facts are that we would NOT be playing the juggernaut schedule in the Big 12 we are playing YEARLY in just our division.  Having to play ONE elite program at this time in OU is a heck of a lot better than having to play three or four yearly just to win a conference title.  It is obvious the road to qualifying for the CFP would be much easier in the Big 12 and OU having that easy road is one of the main reasons they can recruit so well in Texas and other recruiting areas.  OU would not be interested in the least in taking our place in the SEC either and have to play the schedule we play every year.   There is no way they would want to play Bama, Auburn, LSU, and Texas A&M yearly, and then possibly having to play Georgia and Florida as East opponents too.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #189 on: February 05, 2018, 04:27:33 pm »

During the last round of conference realignment we effectively made superconferences (hence the P5 distinction.) Miami's schedule, as an example, got more difficult by joining the ACC. 

That's your argument? It hasn't been done before, so that means we'd fail?  Great argument.

Since you deflected the question I'll ask again. How has all this competition made Arkansas better?  Do we have some Championship trophies I am forgetting about?

I said no.  It hasn't made us better, but what's your comparison...the SWC?  It doesn't exist anymore, and the Big 12 is a much different dynamic, and there's a lot more money at the same schools we competed against in the SEC.  You want to use a few examples....how about Rice, or Houston.  They were in the SWC, and dropped back in competition.  Are their prospects for the highest level of achievement that great?   


I don't think for one second that jumping to the Big 12 would make us better either.  I've answered your question, and made my stance clear. 

You are assuming we would keep the same recruiting numbers, and be better in the Big 12 as a result.  I don't believe that at all.  At that point...what's the allure of a kid from Dallas coming to play for the Hogs versus another conference team that's much closer?  Zero.  I get it..the counter argument is...we would play more games in TX, so their parents would see them more than if they were in the SEC.       

Again...these are ALL issues that the UA has struggled to overcome, and they are all related to the population of our state and the numbers.  If we want to drop back to a conference where we would win a lot of games, then the Big 12 isn't the place to do it.  We would need to drop clear back to the Sunbelt or siimilar, so that we might have a fighting chance to overcome our recruiting deficit by being able to sign more Arkansas kids and still be competitive at that level. 

You guys are convinced we would do better in the Big 12 than the SEC.  Not buying it.  Can't beat TCU or TT...can't expect to beat OU, OSU, and TX on a regular basis, which is what it would take.  And what do you do when the other teams in that conference get sick of TX and OU taking a bigger cut of the pie, and it implodes?  Beg our way back into another P5 conference with the rallying point being all of the TV viewership we can offer???  Yeah..that would work.   

I've made my argument.  It's an assumption, but it's based on EVERY single sporting analogy you can find.  You lower your level of competition, and it lowers you.  Period.  Argue if you want to, but other than maybe a very brief stint for an athlete to drop back and regain their confidence...it's not the way to achieving anything significant. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #190 on: February 05, 2018, 04:33:06 pm »

What is keeping us from striving for the best in the Big 12????   We didn't seem to have a problem when in the SWC in recruiting players to compete for championships.   Why has that changed???  We would still be recruiting the SAME areas we do now, we would be playing closer to our recruiting area week in and week out,  the local media would have more coverage of our program in the recruiting area in large part due to playing d1 teams in their coverage areas.  It is your OPINION that we would drop but until we make the move that is all it is.  You haven't proven anything but make statements that can only be proven by changing conferences and seeing the results. 

What is not opinion, is that we have been nothing more than middle of the pack in the SEC since joining, and even in one of our best years we STILL finished third in our division, much less the entire SEC.  The facts are that we would NOT be playing the juggernaut schedule in the Big 12 we are playing YEARLY in just our division.  Having to play ONE elite program at this time in OU is a heck of a lot better than having to play three or four yearly just to win a conference title.  It is obvious the road to qualifying for the CFP would be much easier in the Big 12 and OU having that easy road is one of the main reasons they can recruit so well in Texas and other recruiting areas.  OU would not be interested in the least in taking our place in the SEC either and have to play the schedule we play every year.   There is no way they would want to play Bama, Auburn, LSU, and Texas A&M yearly, and then possibly having to play Georgia and Florida as East opponents too.

Did OU beat UGA and win the NC?  Did I miss something?  Did the Big 12 prepare them to beat the SEC teams, or did they lose to the second best SEC team, and maybe not even that if Auburn doesn't sustain some injuries? 

Again, to beat the best, you have to play the best.  They came up short.  They won more, but lost when it counted, despite having the Heisman trophy winner. 

You see it differently, and want a place to relive the old SWC glory. Guess what...the Rice, Baylor (of old), and Houston's ain't there anymore.  The Big 12 schools have MUCH more fertile recruiting grounds than us, pretty good money for facilities, and comparing what the landscape was like pre-1992 is not applicable now. 

Leave the SEC...and even the players in Arkansas will be more likely to go out of state to SEC schools. 

And hell yes...these are my opinions.  Are yours facts or something?  You've stated your case, I disagree.  YOU NEVER GO FORWARD BY DROPPING BACK.  EVER.  If you don't believe that, then good luck in life. 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #191 on: February 05, 2018, 04:41:51 pm »


We're talking about taking less money, and playing in a conference that's viewed to be weaker by most.  The path to the NC would not be any easier after about year 2 or 3.  We would water down to that level. 

We lost to TCU and TT in our last two attempts against the Big 12.  But...we're going to jump over there and challenge OU and have an easier path to the NC.  Pull my other leg...

Let's look at it from a historical perspective.

In 83 seasons in the SWC, 36.14% of seasons resulted in .500 or worse.
In 26 seasons in the SEC, 46.15% of seasons have resulted in .500 or worse.

Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.
Against Big 12 teams as the conference now stands, we are combined 168-151 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .527.

Yes, times have changed. Yes, recruiting landscapes have changed. Yes, money has changed. Yes, the game has changed.

But historically speaking, we have had better success against Big 12 schools. That is a hard fact. That's why I stand to believe we would have more success in the Big 12 than we would the SEC.

"B-b-b-but money!" How has money translated to more wins? We're 25 games under .500 against SEC schools. Until someone proves how many wins our SEC money has resulted in, that argument is null and void.

"B-b-b-but competition!" I want the Arkansas Razorbacks to win football games in a P5 conference that gives them an in to the playoff.

In my opinion, that road runs through the Big 12.

I pride myself on wins and victories. I don't pride myself on getting my teeth kicked in and thinking "well golly gee, I guess I gotta get better! At least I'm losing to the best in the country! It's been happening for 46% of the time for the last 26 years, so we gotta try harder and we gotta get better!" A lot easier to say than do.

Nah. Give me legitimate wins. Not feel-good losses.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 04:52:40 pm by RyanMallettsEgo »
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steveaustin69

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #192 on: February 05, 2018, 04:47:55 pm »

I said no.  It hasn't made us better, but what's your comparison...the SWC?  It doesn't exist anymore, and the Big 12 is a much different dynamic, and there's a lot more money at the same schools we competed against in the SEC.  You want to use a few examples....how about Rice, or Houston.  They were in the SWC, and dropped back in competition.  Are their prospects for the highest level of achievement that great?   


I don't think for one second that jumping to the Big 12 would make us better either.  I've answered your question, and made my stance clear. 

You are assuming we would keep the same recruiting numbers, and be better in the Big 12 as a result.  I don't believe that at all.  At that point...what's the allure of a kid from Dallas coming to play for the Hogs versus another conference team that's much closer?  Zero.  I get it..the counter argument is...we would play more games in TX, so their parents would see them more than if they were in the SEC.       

Again...these are ALL issues that the UA has struggled to overcome, and they are all related to the population of our state and the numbers.  If we want to drop back to a conference where we would win a lot of games, then the Big 12 isn't the place to do it.  We would need to drop clear back to the Sunbelt or siimilar, so that we might have a fighting chance to overcome our recruiting deficit by being able to sign more Arkansas kids and still be competitive at that level. 

You guys are convinced we would do better in the Big 12 than the SEC.  Not buying it.  Can't beat TCU or TT...can't expect to beat OU, OSU, and TX on a regular basis, which is what it would take.  And what do you do when the other teams in that conference get sick of TX and OU taking a bigger cut of the pie, and it implodes?  Beg our way back into another P5 conference with the rallying point being all of the TV viewership we can offer???  Yeah..that would work.   

I've made my argument.  It's an assumption, but it's based on EVERY single sporting analogy you can find.  You lower your level of competition, and it lowers you.  Period.  Argue if you want to, but other than maybe a very brief stint for an athlete to drop back and regain their confidence...it's not the way to achieving anything significant.

I took into account a drop in recruiting; we'd be fourth in the Big 12. 

More talent relative to your competition = more wins. It's not that complicated.

Houston and Rice's winning percentage improved when they left the SWC.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #193 on: February 05, 2018, 04:49:08 pm »

How does winning in a lesser conference help the school's reputation....SEC will look at us just like we do them currently.

What Arkansas Fans NEED to do is back off, let CCM and company handle the team and come out swinging out of the gates of the SEC....I have a feeling our year this year will be good if everyone sits back in the recliner and cheer for the hogs.  Stop thinking we are going to be in the same situation we were with CBB, we won't be.  Watch!
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #194 on: February 05, 2018, 04:50:00 pm »

How does winning in a lesser conference help the school's reputation....SEC will look at us just like we do them currently.

How does going 4-8 in any conference help the school's reputation?
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #195 on: February 05, 2018, 04:53:04 pm »

How does going 4-8 in any conference help the school's reputation?

Who is the coach now?  That's in the past...you need to leave it there.  Quit crying about last year...that's over.....
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #196 on: February 05, 2018, 04:53:59 pm »

Who is the coach now?  That's in the past...you need to leave it there.

How does going 171-196 against SEC teams in 26 seasons help the school's reputation?
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Hogindasticks

Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #197 on: February 05, 2018, 04:54:59 pm »

How does going 171-196 against SEC teams in 26 seasons help the school's reputation?

Look dude....just suck it up and understand.....there wont be a change...too much money involved with the SEC...sit back and enjoy the ride.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #198 on: February 05, 2018, 04:55:59 pm »

Let's look at it from a historical perspective.

In 83 seasons in the SWC, 36.14% of seasons resulted in .500 or worse.
In 26 seasons in the SEC, 46.15% of seasons have resulted in .500 or worse.

Against SWC teams that are now in the Big 12, we are combined 134-131 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .506.
Against SEC teams, we are combined 171-196 excluding ties, for a winning percentage of .466.

Yes, times have changed. Yes, recruiting landscapes have changed. Yes, money has changed. Yes, the game has changed.

But historically speaking, we have had better success against Big 12 schools. That is a hard fact. That's why I stand to believe we would have more success in the Big 12 than we would the SEC.

"B-b-b-but money!" How has money translated to more wins? We're sub-.500 against SEC schools. Until someone proves how many wins our SEC money has resulted in, that argument is null and void.

"B-b-b-but competition!" I want the Arkansas Razorbacks to win football games in a P5 conference that gives them an in to the playoff.

In my opinion, that road runs through the Big 12.

I pride myself on wins and victories. I don't pride myself on getting my teeth kicked in and thinking "well golly gee, I guess I gotta get better! At least I'm losing to the best in the country! It's been happening for 46% of the last 26 years, so we gotta try harder and we gotta get better!" A lot easier to say than do.

Nah. Give me legitimate wins. Not feel-good losses.

And again, it's the same mentality of the guy who shows up at the golf course and the guys he's are playing with can barely say hello and ask how he's doing, before he's begging for strokes in your dollar Nassau bet.  It never occurs to the dude that he could get better if he upped his level of competition, worked harder, and stopped taking the easy way out.  Not play better...beg that extra stroke out of your opponent.   

Again, you want an easier path.  Even assuming it's an easier path, OU's team this year was the best the Big 12 has put out in quite a few seasons, and they still lost in the playoff right?  With the Heisman trophy winner, right?   

And...to take that a step further, the percentages you gave don't exactly illustrate that we would be in the top 3 of the Big 12 at at barely over 50%.  Factor in that we're not getting gimme's over Rice, Baylor (pre cheating days), SMU (when they weren't cheating), and against TAMU...who by the way moved up, not back, in competition from the Big 12. 

It's a different landscape for sure.  You think we would flourish, I don't.  That's really the end of the argument as far as I'm concerned, because it's pure conjecture from the word "go." 

No examples of a team that dropped back, and benefitted from it.  Maybe we would be the first..EVER, in any sport, and you would be right.   ;) 

 
 
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Arkansas gets a $40.9 million payment for the 2016-17 season
« Reply #199 on: February 05, 2018, 04:59:00 pm »

And again, it's the same mentality of the guy who shows up at the golf course and the guys he's are playing with can barely say hello and ask how he's doing, before he's begging for strokes in your dollar Nassau bet.  It never occurs to the dude that he could get better if he upped his level of competition, worked harder, and stopped taking the easy way out.  Not play better...beg that extra stroke out of your opponent.   

Again, you want an easier path.  Even assuming it's an easier path, OU's team this year was the best the Big 12 has put out in quite a few seasons, and they still lost in the playoff right?  With the Heisman trophy winner, right?   

And...to take that a step further, the percentages you gave don't exactly illustrate that we would be in the top 3 of the Big 12 at at barely over 50%.  Factor in that we're not getting gimme's over Rice, Baylor (pre cheating days), SMU (when they weren't cheating), and against TAMU...who by the way moved up, not back, in competition from the Big 12. 

It's a different landscape for sure.  You think we would flourish, I don't.  That's really the end of the argument as far as I'm concerned, because it's pure conjecture from the word "go." 

No examples of a team that dropped back, and benefitted from it.  Maybe we would be the first..EVER, in any sport, and you would be right.   ;) 

 
 

Jesus, man. Working harder and wanting it more is not a quantifiable statistic. No joke we need to get better and work harder. Guess what? Every danged team in the SEC is working harder and wanting it more and getting better. I could work my ass off in a gym 20 hours a day and want to beat Isaiah Thomas in basketball more than anything in the world. Hell I'm even bigger than him. So I should be able to beat him, right? If I work REALLY HARD and want it REALLY BADLY, I should beat him by God. Right?

Reread my percentage criteria. I didn't factor in Rice, SMU, etc. because they aren't in the Big 12. I also included A&M in my SEC percentage, which actually helped that percentage since we have a winning record over them.

May not have an example of a team that dropped back and benefitted from it, but I've got an example of a team who went forward and hasn't yet benefitted from it apart from a monetary standpoint. The Arkansas Razorbacks.
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