Hogville Info
• 9,755,109 Posts
• 394,769 Topics
• 22,262 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Prognosis for the rest of the season  (Read 617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Prognosis for the rest of the season
« on: January 31, 2018, 08:01:39 pm »

Those of you that have read my posts know that I became optimistic when Devin Cosper decided to come back and after we had played a couple of games in the new system.  At that time I saw what Mike was instilling as his system.  I did say early on that any and all of my forecasts had to do with no injuries.  My closest confidants LBBF and Pscych both told me (privately) I was nuts but I countered that I was just irrationally exuberant (which is admittedly next door to nuts). 

Now the injury to Devin cost us up to two games.  But the lack of emergence of a high post player is costing us just as much.  I also had another caveat that our optimum performance was based on development of Macy Weaver.  I have to be candid that I didnt see much in Macy before the season began, I didnt see much spark in her play when she did get on the floor in pre-conference play either.

But she has shown me something the last four games (the last one, I am discounting for various reasons, including phantom fouls).  As a high post player in high school, I know probably every way possible to beat a zone.  The best one is to have a high post player catching the ball at just beyond the free throw line.   Just outside the line, so the three second count doesn't apply.   

If you have a player who can hit that 15-18 foot shot inside the guards, you break down the zone.  The guards have to come back on you and the four or five has to come up to guard you.  That leaves the wing and the low post player open to back door their defense for short shots or layups (dunks if you're playing men's bb).  But the high post has to hit two or three shots from there before you disrupt the zone and make them compensate.

If the high post player can handle the ball, she can also upfake when the defense comes up and drive the lane herself, if the player is skilled enough to do that.  There are all sorts of ways to break down the zone from there.  Devin Cosper could play in that position, but ideally it would be Macy Weaver if she can develop that range.  The high post player has to be someone capable of shooting over whatever defensive player that comes up if she has too.  Otherwise I would say put Jalyn Mason playing that because she shoots that midrange jumper better and more consistently than anyone we have right now.

Right now she (Weaver) is used for offensive rebounding, and for shooting 6-8 foot in.  Right now, without her development - and when Devin wasn't playing up to snuff or at all - we had very few options because everyone was going to a zone and packing it in, cutting off Malica's driving lanes, and we just (with the exception of the Auburn game when we didn't have any turnovers) didn't have people who could beat the zone from the outside.  Not consistently enough.

If Macy develops quickly, and is used at the high post, or if Thomas is capable from there, or if Devin is, then we can still stick it to most of the teams we have yet to play.  The shot has to go up inside the zone, that is the only way we are capable with our lack of height to breakdown the zones that we are likely to see the rest of the way. 

Next year Chelsea Dungee will run them out of a zone.   but the NCAA wont let her play this year, sigh. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 08:14:11 am by flippinhogmana »
Logged

LadybackBBFan

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 07:45:57 am »

That is what I said in my post analysis of the Kentucky game.  Do you see Chelsea breaking the zone at the free throw line or outside of the Zone?  I have never seen her play.  We beat Auburn because there zone picked up at half court or beyond which gave Monk room to bust it.  Also their players are not as good as Kentucky's are.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 08:17:24 am »

That is what I said in my post analysis of the Kentucky game.  Do you see Chelsea breaking the zone at the free throw line or outside of the Zone?  I have never seen her play.  We beat Auburn because there zone picked up at half court or beyond which gave Monk room to bust it.  Also their players are not as good as Kentucky's are.

that is what Chelsea at 5-11, a good ball handler and athlete gives us.  She can beat the zone from the inside and the outside.  You cant average what she did in high school without being able to take it inside.  In a word, yes.  She has the skills to beat the zone (multiple zones) but the outside, too. 

Dungee is good enough that by the time she is a junior, teams will do with her what they did with Plum (a box and one or at least a modification of that, essentially someone will play her man and the rest will zone, which is what a box and one is).  The value of that (drawing that much attention) is you cant close down driving lanes with that defense, so even if she doesnt tear it up, Malika and Gaulden are apt to.

I do not say that Macy Weaver can do what I would ask in the interim, and Mike may not even ask her to.  That much progress, and maybe even range expansion is a very big order and may not be possible.  I am just looking at what needs to happen with the personnel we have if it is possible at all.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 08:31:02 am by flippinhogmana »
Logged

LadybackBBFan

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 10:34:58 am »

Thank you for the information on Chelsea.  I like your idea on Weaver at the top of the key.  I think she could do it now, but she would have to play with either Thomas or Williams down on the low post as no one else is tall enough or strong enough to play there on offense.  I think she has a good 15' jump shot and can see over the defenders to make the right pass.  I doubt whether coach will ever try it though, but only time will tell.  If we do try to play her more, we have to stop her from getting so many fouls.
Logged

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 01:52:11 pm »

Thank you for the information on Chelsea.  I like your idea on Weaver at the top of the key.  I think she could do it now, but she would have to play with either Thomas or Williams down on the low post as no one else is tall enough or strong enough to play there on offense.  I think she has a good 15' jump shot and can see over the defenders to make the right pass.  I doubt whether coach will ever try it though, but only time will tell.  If we do try to play her more, we have to stop her from getting so many fouls.

Well, do you have an "in" with the SEC officiating crews? Haha! She played a lot of minutes with either three or four fouls without picking up another.  She either picks up her legitimate fouls with either coming over to help on defense or on offensive rebounding.  She is a freshmen, refs tend to pic on them.  But she plays good fundamental defense, and the very last foul she picked up last game was pure evil.  She never touched the player when they called that foul. 

She just has to play through that and be a little more careful to keep space between herself and those she is going against, both on offensive boards and on help defense.  She will get smarter.  She also needs to learn to block with her left hand.  I found that to be invaluable myself.  I had a 36 inch vertical.  I was 5-11 and not too many people expected me to block them.  As I did, I got a lot of fouls called on me that were not fouls. 

But over time I learned that I had to show space between me and the person I was blocking to the officials.  I learned I could slide a bit and block with my left hand and it was easier to show the gap that way.  I picked up a lot less fouls after that.  Plus players arent expecting a right handed player to block with their left hand.  Its a lot easier to make that transition than you might think, btw.   
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 02:11:43 pm by flippinhogmana »
Logged

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 02:19:53 pm »

Shot blocking is an art.  Once you begin to know your capabilities, you can begin to plan your actions better.  You dont just go up hoping to make contact and block the ball, it isnt all just reaction.  I learned how to block shots by watching Bill Russell, who I think is still the best shot blocker I have ever seen. 

Russell was 6-10. I was basically a foot shorter.  But he had good leaping ability and it impressed me that not only could he block shots, but he wound up with the ball a lot or blocked it almost as a tip to a teammate.  He was also left handed.  He hardly ever got a foul called on him on his blocks.  All that made an impression on me and i started emulating him.  Thats how I learned to block left handed, too. 

I could see a shot blocking situation coming, I moved not just to contest the shot, but to block it.  I faced them up for that effect, but I also blocked a lot of shots on help defense by not fronting them up (in that situation you pick up a lot of fouls) but by letting them shoot and blocking the shot well after it had left their hand.  I learned that too from Russell and on my own afterwards.
Logged

LadybackBBFan

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 02:27:35 pm »

I agree Russell was the greatest shot blocker of all time and the greatest defensive player of all time.  He had to be to play against Wilt.  I saw Russell in person play in Peoria - both he and KC Jones along with a lot of other great players including Oscar.
Logged

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 02:52:36 pm »

I agree Russell was the greatest shot blocker of all time and the greatest defensive player of all time.  He had to be to play against Wilt.  I saw Russell in person play in Peoria - both he and KC Jones along with a lot of other great players including Oscar.

Not only Wilt, but Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier and Willis Reed (and others such as Artis Gilmore who was tall, but not with so much offensive skills)
Logged

logic

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 06:45:01 am »

Even if they don't win another game, they have already met my expectations for this year. This year, I know it is not possible to compete with MS, Missouri, or SC nor do I think it is possible to play in the NCAA tournament. Regardless, they are fun to watch and next year they will be better.
Logged

psycHOGlogist

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 51
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,832
  • Skepticism is a virtue.
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2018, 08:48:30 am »

I agree - they have beaten last year's SEC win total already, without having one of the program's all-time best players on the roster, and after inheriting a fairly weak recruiting class (which they upgraded with RNB and Thomas). If they get another SEC win (no mean feat, given who's left and the home/away layout of the schedule), they will have increased their conference wins by 100%! (low bar, perhaps, but ... baby steps).
Logged

LadybackBBFan

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 09:54:48 am »

Going to coach's luncheon today to celebrate yesterday's victory and to hear about the rest of the year.
Logged

hawg1221

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 5
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 893
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 12:27:11 pm »

I really like Coach Neighbors. I just hope that the commits and future recruits believe in him enough to not get scared off by the lack of success the Razorbacks are having this year. I hope they understand that it takes some time to rebuild a program. 
Logged

psycHOGlogist

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 51
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,832
  • Skepticism is a virtue.
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2018, 01:14:27 pm »

I thought it was interesting that Weaver did not play vs Bama, who despite playing a 6'3" kid for 24 minutes (a 6'5" kid for 10, and another 6'3" kid for 2) did not have much inside game (all 3 of them scored a total of 4 pts). By comparison, Kiara Williams had 10 for us in just 18 minutes, and Thomas had 4 pt and 6 boards in 22 minutes).

It seems that Weaver is just going to be used as a reaction to teams banging us down inside. Not a criticism (in fact, I think that's probably the right move), just an observation.
Logged

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2018, 02:50:12 pm »

I thought it was interesting that Weaver did not play vs Bama, who despite playing a 6'3" kid for 24 minutes (a 6'5" kid for 10, and another 6'3" kid for 2) did not have much inside game (all 3 of them scored a total of 4 pts). By comparison, Kiara Williams had 10 for us in just 18 minutes, and Thomas had 4 pt and 6 boards in 22 minutes).

It seems that Weaver is just going to be used as a reaction to teams banging us down inside. Not a criticism (in fact, I think that's probably the right move), just an observation.

i tend not to criticize coaches, especially when I see what they are trying to do both long term and in terms or this season.  I can see that Mike has a long range plan and what it is, I see what he is trying to do with this season.  As I said a long time ago, you only have so many game minutes to develop players, and at this time of the year there is considerable thought given to going with your more proven players. 

It was a long shot and would have been very difficult in the best of scenarios to have invested much more In Macy's development at the present time.  She started at a deficit.  She has made considerable progress, but to turn her into the answer now, would have required a massive effort that might not have paid off for this season.

That is not to say that she might not be very well be much improved - if she works hard on her own - by next season.  But for the most part, both Williams and Thomas are more active in our scheme at the present.  You also have to factor in her last game when she appeared to regress.  I think Mike knew going in he could beat Alabama (which we should have beat the first time) without her.   How much he uses her the rest of the season and how much more she progresses will just depend on a number of factors, but some of which she will control.  In either case I hope she continues to work hard to improve the elements of her post play, offensively and defensively and grows more and more confident as her skills increase.

But having Devin Cosper back fully means even more.  I only saw her limp a couple of time yesterday so she must be pretty close to being fully back.  She drove the floor, she shot the three and she battled on defense, she opens it up for Monk, a lot of the times the inside player getting a good feed its off a drive and dish by either her or Mason.  It good to have her back.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 03:05:45 pm by flippinhogmana »
Logged

LadybackBBFan

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2018, 04:17:01 pm »

As promised I will give you a summary of what we all learned at coaches luncheon.  There were no players available.  Coach acknowledged that the players and coaches celebrated their third victory - which is one more than last year - that got a monkey off their backs.  He also acknowledged that Devin was back at full strength yesterday which was demonstrated by her ability to drive to the basket.  As far as the rest of the season - we have four home games - all against top teams - currently 4-7 in our conference.  We have two tough road games with Kentucky and Vanderbilt who are always tough on their home floor due to the uniqueness of their court.  They are taking it one game at a time and will celebrate the next victory more than they did the third.  The team's three objectives appear to be not to finish last in the SEC, to not have to play on Wednesday and to make a post season tournament.  This is my opinion on what I think the coach was saying.   I think we should meet the first objective, but the second and third will be more difficult.
Coach was asked about recruits.  He talked about 2018 - with our two transfers on campus plus the one signee that we have.  It is obvious that he feels they will all come in and play right away and have a significant impact on improving the team.  He continues to invite any and all fans to come to practice and see the team - especially the transfers.  The best time to see the transfers is on Friday as several starters rest on Friday in a full scrimmage by the rest of the team.  Call the office for actual times and where they are practicing.  They apparently have not currently offered anyone who might be able to sign in April, but are keeping their options open.  Anyone who is signed must be able to come in and help right away.  One change that the NCAA is considering is making a player who transfers be eligible right away if certain conditions are met.  The player must have good grades and be seeking a transfer for a legitimate reason like coaching change, coach not honoring what they said during recruiting, etc.  Whether this happens or not only time will tell and whether it would help us for next year is yet to be determined.  I can tell you that coach is definitely for the change.
To me the most intriguing comments about next year were about his three post players - Williams, Thomas and Weaver.  He expects all three to be drastically improved next year after his staff gets to work with them all summer.  He had very positive things to say about all three of them wanting to improve and regarding what they need to do to improve.  Unlike previous coaches comments, I felt these comments were genuine and gave me a lot of hope for next year.  I have seen it in the past when players from various teams make great progress over the summer.  To do of course the girls will have to be on campus all summer.

I believe all of you know we have three commitments for 2019 and who they are.  He had great praise for his two recruiters Goldwire and Love.  It was one of the best luncheons that I have ever been at in spite on no players being available.
Logged

flippinhogmana

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 45
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,590
  • Nathan J Allison - Brothers to the Bone Books
Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2018, 05:21:48 pm »

an excellent report and I am very much looking forward to next year beyond.  We will average an inch taller next year, and up to two inches taller depending on who plays than our starters do this year.  If we get that, and a lot of improvement, the results should start to come next year.  I am also glad they got to celebrate the third win, and hopeful that they will celebrate at least five or more.
Logged

MoHog74

Re: Prognosis for the rest of the season
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2018, 07:58:47 pm »

Thanks for the report, LBBF.  We try to make it down for a least one luncheon a year, but with winter weather having its impact, we didn't make it today.

To me, yesterday's win shows that we have turned the corner.  As I've posted before, I am very optimistic about the future of WBB at Arkansas. Regardless of how we finish this year, this season has been a success, and I am proud to be a season ticket holder.  WPS
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas