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Author Topic: Front court is killing us  (Read 1987 times)

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Marshfieldhog

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Front court is killing us
« on: January 30, 2018, 10:30:59 pm »

Thomas, Cook, Thompson, and even Gafford is killing this team. No points, few rebounds, nothing! Gafford will be good next year, we had some big recruiting whiffs with the bigs.
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arkfan81

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 10:34:26 pm »

Their not a threat on the offensive side of the ball. That's why teams leave them open from 10-15, either they don't shoot and pass or they do and miss.
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Marshfieldhog

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2018, 10:35:46 pm »

Their not a threat on the offensive side of the ball. That's why teams leave them open from 10-15, either they don't shoot and pass or they do and miss.

And there lies the problem, Barford and Macon can only do so much. Hall looked good but again, the bigs are killing us
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2018, 10:37:11 pm »

Thomas, Cook, Thompson, and even Gafford is killing this team. No points, few rebounds, nothing! Gafford will be good next year, we had some big recruiting whiffs with the bigs.

Cook, Thomas and Thompson are not athletic enough to plsy this pace. Cook and Thomas were flat out recruiting mistakes.
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Breems

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2018, 10:38:58 pm »

I've never seen a forward miss as many point blank shots as Cook, poor dude.
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Marshfieldhog

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2018, 10:40:19 pm »

Cook, Thomas and Thompson are not athletic enough to plsy this pace. Cook and Thomas were flat out recruiting mistakes.

The bad thing about Thomas is we spent
3 years on him, we canít keep having missed like Cook and Thomas. The transfer from West Virginia was the same deal
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bhogs05

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2018, 10:45:55 pm »

The frontcourt isnt good but we dont get them involved either. All we do is dribble around the 3 pt line and let them set screens.
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NorthDallas40

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2018, 10:54:01 pm »

This is officially the worst grammatical thread of all time on Hogville per its official grammarian. Congrats!
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zebradynasty

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2018, 11:06:39 pm »

Cook, Thomas and Thompson are not athletic enough to plsy this pace. Cook and Thomas were flat out recruiting mistakes.

Well it was always hoped that we would recruit better at that position and the 3 would be backups and provide depth. But yeah 4 position is killing us!
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ballinhog

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2018, 11:23:32 pm »

I hope Chaney and Henderson are a lot better than these guys
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RacinRazorback

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2018, 07:33:34 am »

This most definitely is one of the most glaring deficiencies!
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GuvHog

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2018, 08:13:39 am »

Their not a threat on the offensive side of the ball. That's why teams leave them open from 10-15, either they don't shoot and pass or they do and miss.

That's what happens when the coach refuses to recruit true big men.
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HogFaninMemphis

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2018, 08:18:07 am »

I'm glad we got that game out of our systems. You could've chalked up this game as a loss down low before the season even started. They have two forwards who will be in the NBA next season. Be that as it may, you have to at the very least make them think that maybe you might occasionally be able to do something on offense. Gafford looked scared. Thompson is the only player on this team who can bang, but he isn't skilled enough to be an offensive threat. love his effort and heart though
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2018, 08:28:21 am »

Tough Loss.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 08:44:07 am »

I hope Chaney and Henderson are a lot better than these guys

They are. The problem is, they will be showing up as freshmen in Mike's 8th year.

Meanwhile, in his first full class at LSU, Will Wade has 4 top 100 recruits, including two 5-stars from out of state.

It goes to show that if you fire a good coach, you won't get stuck with the average results we've had under Mediocre Mike.
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nwahogfan1

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2018, 08:54:19 am »

The bad thing about Thomas is we spent
3 years on him, we canít keep having missed like Cook and Thomas. The transfer from West Virginia was the same deal

I do not know who is the guy who is  evaluating our bigs but I hope he stops and turns the job over to some one else more qualified.   The thing that makes  it a worse evaluation mistake is Cook and Thomas came in as juniors so they are what they are by that time so  there should not make those type mistakes in evaluating these kids.   I think Bailey might be a player with out a College position so he also might be a mistake unless he can find a outside shot and create his own shot. 
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OkieBack

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2018, 09:03:04 am »

I'm glad we got that game out of our systems. You could've chalked up this game as a loss down low before the season even started. They have two forwards who will be in the NBA next season. Be that as it may, you have to at the very least make them think that maybe you might occasionally be able to do something on offense. Gafford looked scared. Thompson is the only player on this team who can bang, but he isn't skilled enough to be an offensive threat. love his effort and heart though

Yeah Hogs looked sluggish and off after last week's games.  A&M is a good team that should make the tourney with an improved SEC record.  They were definitely on last night.  But this was a road loss.  What else can you say.  You win your games at home and steal a couple of road games down the stretch.  That's about all we can  hope for with this Razorback team.  They are not diverse enough to get out of their game.  I did like the motion under the basket last night, but in the end you still have to make the shot.  Defensively we ran out of gas.  Poor defensive showing for sure.  Lack of hustle covering 3 point shooters.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2018, 09:03:31 am »

I hope Chaney and Henderson are a lot better than these guys

From a athletic standpoint they are much better. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Henderson. I think we really should get GABE some playing time. Everytime he plays he takes a charge in the lane. He's much better than Cook.
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 09:08:07 am »

Too many combo forwards.  Thomas, Bailey and Cook are not true 4s or 3s and it shows.  MA really needs to stop recruiting the combo 4s and get a couple true 4s that don't mind mixing it up down low
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cram224

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2018, 09:08:59 am »

If you remember the last few years of Nolan was a roster full of 6'4" to 6'7" athletic wing players. The only time we won the SECT Nolan had to move an NBA All-star guard to center just to compete. This may be the only way MA knows how to coach and recruit. The only big kids we recruit are the ones that would beg to be Razorbacks.
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OkieBack

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2018, 09:10:51 am »

From a athletic standpoint they are much better. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Henderson. I think we really should get GABE some playing time. Everytime he plays he takes a charge in the lane. He's much better than Cook.

Everything comes in waves in this sport.  Did anyone think we would see the A&M team that got pounded by Kansas?  We have come off a 3 game winning streak and we played an energized A&M team that had something to proved after that dismal loss to Kansas. 

We just have to accept this Hog team is not superb, and that they are human.  But I too am all for playing the bench and seeing if anyone can light a spark from time to time.  I was a little disappointed in Thompson's effort last night.  He really needs to improve every single game if he is going to help win games in the post-season.  The motion was good to see.  Failing to score from the motion was not good.  Still gotta stick em in boys.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2018, 09:21:23 am »

Too many combo forwards.  Thomas, Bailey and Cook are not true 4s or 3s and it shows.  MA really needs to stop recruiting the combo 4s and get a couple true 4s that don't mind mixing it up down low

I think in today's game you need a healthy balance. The game is moving away from the true post player. They are rare but the game bigs are more versatile. Our bigs just aren't good shooters. They can't make that mid range shot. Arkansas had cut the lead to 9 with the ball, threw the ball to Thomas and he missed a wide open jumper. That was just like a turnover because he had no business attempting that shot.
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HogBreath

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2018, 09:30:07 am »

 

We just have to accept this Hog team is not superb,

I'm gonna say most of us are making some dang fine progress in this area.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2018, 09:31:32 am »

From a athletic standpoint they are much better. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Henderson. I think we really should get GABE some playing time. Everytime he plays he takes a charge in the lane. He's much better than Cook.

Henderson and Chaney are a step in the right direction, it's just sad it's come so late. Chaney is 6'8" 230lbs and a great athlete. Just look at what having some size allows Darious Hall to do at the 3. I think Chaney will provide some of those tough rebounds and baskets inside we need.

Henderson is really a Center in terms of skill set. He is a shorter Gafford. He reminds me of Jordan Mickey from LSU, who over his time at LSU put on like 25 pounds. Henderson will need to do the same.

Bailey (6'6") is going to have to expand and improve his game, or Gabe Osabuohien will pass him by next year. Gabe is 6'8" and around 215lb. He is athletic, has good ball skills, a decent shot, and fits perfect as that combo 4.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2018, 09:34:17 am »

Everything comes in waves in this sport.  Did anyone think we would see the A&M team that got pounded by Kansas?  We have come off a 3 game winning streak and we played an energized A&M team that had something to proved after that dismal loss to Kansas. 

We just have to accept this Hog team is not superb, and that they are human.  But I too am all for playing the bench and seeing if anyone can light a spark from time to time.  I was a little disappointed in Thompson's effort last night.  He really needs to improve every single game if he is going to help win games in the post-season.  The motion was good to see.  Failing to score from the motion was not good.  Still gotta stick em in boys.

I agree. I wasn't expecting the Hogs to win this game. LSU is a must win game for the Hogs to continue momentum.
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cableguy

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 09:50:40 am »

From a athletic standpoint they are much better. I wouldn't expect a whole lot from Henderson. I think we really should get GABE some playing time. Everytime he plays he takes a charge in the lane. He's much better than Cook.

Gabe didn't look bad earlier on in the season. I think it baffles everyone why he hasn't seen the floor in SEC play. Everybody knows Cook is a liability on offense but CMA. We can't allow a team to double and triple team Gaford and not make them pay for it. It's time to give Gabe an opportunity to shine or fail.  My starting 5 would be Gafford and Dustin Thomas. Thompson and Bailey would be first off the bench, Gabe then Cook.  I would paly Gabe and Gafford on the floor at the same time so it won't be soo much pressure on him.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 09:56:30 am »

Gabe didn't look bad earlier on in the season. I think it baffles everyone why he hasn't seen the floor in SEC play. Everybody knows Cook is a liability on offense but CMA. We can't allow a team to double and triple team Gaford and not make them pay for it. It's time to give Gabe an opportunity to shine or fail.  My starting 5 would be Gafford and Dustin Thomas. Thompson and Bailey would be first off the bench, Gabe then Cook.  I would paly Gabe and Gafford on the floor at the same time so it won't be soo much pressure on him.

Mike just can't get himself to sit a senior. Gabe has more talent than Cook and Thomas, but Mike feels stuck to those guys for whatever reason.
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Illinihog

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2018, 10:21:40 am »

I'm glad we got that game out of our systems. You could've chalked up this game as a loss down low before the season even started. They have two forwards who will be in the NBA next season. Be that as it may, you have to at the very least make them think that maybe you might occasionally be able to do something on offense. Gafford looked scared. Thompson is the only player on this team who can bang, but he isn't skilled enough to be an offensive threat. love his effort and heart though

Gafford looks scared more and more.  UGA was the same. When he plays against grown men inside and true NBA talent he backs down. Portis did the same thing his 1st year. Hoping to see the same jump from Gafford next.  I also believe the fouls have mentally hurt him.  If you notice after the 1st foul he becomes much more timid and unsure of himself.
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HogsonHicks

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2018, 10:22:51 am »

Itís not just the front court players, itís the ridiculous defensive scheme.  At multiple times last night we had our big men rotated out to the perimeter, while our guards were left inside to defend and rebound.  The constant switching is a major liability, especially with a front court dominant A&M team. 

Our defensive scheme gave us no chance to win that game.  They pounded the boards on us all night and got numerous easy shots.  Weíve never had a big man who could rebound when heís 20+ feet from the basket. 
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OkieBack

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 10:29:02 am »

Itís not just the front court players, itís the ridiculous defensive scheme.  At multiple times last night we had our big men rotated out to the perimeter, while our guards were left inside to defend and rebound.  The constant switching is a major liability, especially with a front court dominant A&M team. 

Our defensive scheme gave us no chance to win that game.  They pounded the boards on us all night and got numerous easy shots.  Weíve never had a big man who could rebound when heís 20+ feet from the basket.

I'm not recalling this but does MA ever run that 1 + 4 defense Nolan used to run?  In other words, I'm not discounting the fact that we need some type of zone.  Our man to man D kills us.  But do we have a Tazmanian Devil who can go out there and put pressure on the ball carrier for 40 minutes?  If MA has run this defense then I have missed it.  Seems like this would still keep pressure on the opposing team while giving us the zone that has been more successful this season.  I'm no coach.  Just my observation.
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billmontgomery10

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2018, 10:57:29 am »

I agree the front line is killing us because MA can't recruit (or won't) big men for the front line. I think Gafford would be crazy to declare for the Draft after this year but if he does, your tallest player next year is 6-8. That won't cut it.
Anderson keeps giving Beard love but over the last 3 games he has made just 4 of his last 25 shots. Back in the day Nolan would sit his rear on the bench with a performance like that. Anderson just loves playing seniors, it took forever for Hall to finally get his chance.
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HogsonHicks

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2018, 11:07:45 am »

I agree the front line is killing us because MA can't recruit (or won't) big men for the front line. I think Gafford would be crazy to declare for the Draft after this year but if he does, your tallest player next year is 6-8. That won't cut it.
Anderson keeps giving Beard love but over the last 3 games he has made just 4 of his last 25 shots. Back in the day Nolan would sit his rear on the bench with a performance like that. Anderson just loves playing seniors, it took forever for Hall to finally get his chance.

The front court talent we have is serviceable with the back court we have, IF we use them appropriately.  We unfortunately do NOT have the front court talent to play the constant switching and rotation defensive scheme we seem to prefer.  None of them are talented enough to overcome bad coaching.
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Been10Hog

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2018, 11:11:16 am »

The frontcourt isnt good but we dont get them involved either. All we do is dribble around the 3 pt line and let them set screens.
I've been yelling this at the TV all season
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Kevin

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2018, 11:17:09 am »

this team will not play defense, consistently.

good guards go to the basket anytime they want.

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Sanctified Swine

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 11:20:47 am »

I was at the game last night and right behind the Hog bench. The body language and facial expressions of our bigs screamed defeated and frustrated, this was especially true of Gafford. There was one possession where Gafford put his arms down and completely gave up. CMA must have noticed it because he came out right after that and didnt go back in for a while. Those Aggie big men totally dominated the inside, they were much stronger than we were for sure. Combine that with that stretch of 3s they had and the inability of our guards to match them shooting wise, and it was long night. Another thing that was painfully obvious is the inability of our bigs to hit short jumpers in the paint.
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OkieBack

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2018, 11:42:49 am »

Another thing that was painfully obvious is the inability of our bigs to hit short jumpers in the paint.

And this is the part that is unacceptable to me.  It's one thing to make the motion and get open looks but when you do...you better hit a few.  I think this is where the recruiting lapse is hurting us badly.  I hope CMA has recruited some players that can fit this mold.  If he hasn't, then the naysayer voices are going to become louder over the next couple of years.  We need muscle in the paint so our inside game is a real threat.  Right now all we have are the outside 3 point shooters.  Big and strong doesn't necessarily have to mean slow and lethargic.  May be this is the misnomer the recruiters have overlooked.
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roothawg

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2018, 11:46:22 am »

Yep Thomas and Cook just arent very good. It also doesnt help we have a point guard that has more head up your @&! Plays than good plays. Momentum killer
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upperdeck_hawg

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2018, 11:49:56 am »

It's also troubling to see that our bigs always seem to regress or never improve much under MA. Moses regressed his Senior year. Thompson ditto.Gafford has gotten worse from the start of this year.
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wps11

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2018, 12:09:58 pm »

How can you expect Gafford to make plays when he sits more than Trey Thompson and they do absolutely nothing to give him the ball. He is a freshman, that is where poor coaching comes in. You can't expect him to go in there and bang then throw him the ball. they have 0 sets. They pass the ball and chuck it up. You want to get him going? Maybe we set a cross screen, diagonal screen something to get him open. He isn't big enough yet to go in and just bang on a consistent basis. Scheme something for him. Thompson, cook, Thomas, they are awful and don't know why they play. They don't touch the floor for any other SEC team.
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farfromgroovins

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2018, 12:33:54 pm »

ďBad shooters are always openĒ Ė Pete Carril
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Danny J

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2018, 12:59:07 pm »

Itís not just the front court players, itís the ridiculous defensive scheme.  At multiple times last night we had our big men rotated out to the perimeter, while our guards were left inside to defend and rebound.  The constant switching is a major liability, especially with a front court dominant A&M team. 

Our defensive scheme gave us no chance to win that game.  They pounded the boards on us all night and got numerous easy shots.  Weíve never had a big man who could rebound when heís 20+ feet from the basket.
This is the problem ^^^
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jjdlc

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2018, 01:14:50 pm »

Gafford looks scared more and more.  UGA was the same. When he plays against grown men inside and true NBA talent he backs down. Portis did the same thing his 1st year. Hoping to see the same jump from Gafford next.  I also believe the fouls have mentally hurt him.  If you notice after the 1st foul he becomes much more timid and unsure of himself.

This, he has struggled since we've come up against strong veteran big men.  This underscores why he really needs another year.  Thompson is too soft too.
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code red

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2018, 01:22:54 pm »

1.  The guards don't look low.
2.  The guards don't slow down dribble penetration.
3.  Thus the front court looks bad.  Quick shots = no rebounding position.
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Jim Harris

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2018, 02:08:13 pm »

Cook, Thomas and Thompson are not athletic enough to plsy this pace. Cook and Thomas were flat out recruiting mistakes.

Thomas was a washout at Colorado and Arkansas still took him as a transfer. Mike has recruited a a lot like that. Thompson had more attention as a ninth grader nationally than when he reached the fall of his senior year in HS. Cook, juco that we saw play here against Arkansas Baptist one night. He didn't set the world on fire that night, didn't know what anyone really expected. He was tall. He probably plays the most consistent defense of anyone on the front line. All three of these guys think if they are open, they should shoot it. And, of course, the scouting report is to leave them open.
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Jim Harris

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2018, 02:11:56 pm »

How can you expect Gafford to make plays when he sits more than Trey Thompson and they do absolutely nothing to give him the ball. He is a freshman, that is where poor coaching comes in. You can't expect him to go in there and bang then throw him the ball. they have 0 sets. They pass the ball and chuck it up. You want to get him going? Maybe we set a cross screen, diagonal screen something to get him open. He isn't big enough yet to go in and just bang on a consistent basis. Scheme something for him. Thompson, cook, Thomas, they are awful and don't know why they play. They don't touch the floor for any other SEC team.

This is one of the chief reasons Mississippi State was able to steal away Reggie Perry, pointing exactly to the 0 sets in the half court that is obvious with Arkansas's style. Same thing the negative recruiters kept telling KeVaughn Allen about avoiding Arkansas and playing for Anderson at all cost. While negative recruiting is going to happen, and there were people in NLR with burrs up their ass about Mike, it's hard to argue what they were telling KA about what would happen playing in an offense with no sets, no real plays.
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Jim Harris

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2018, 02:15:59 pm »

I agree the front line is killing us because MA can't recruit (or won't) big men for the front line. I think Gafford would be crazy to declare for the Draft after this year but if he does, your tallest player next year is 6-8. That won't cut it.
Anderson keeps giving Beard love but over the last 3 games he has made just 4 of his last 25 shots. Back in the day Nolan would sit his rear on the bench with a performance like that. Anderson just loves playing seniors, it took forever for Hall to finally get his chance.

who would you play in place of Beard as "point"? I agree with your points here, but it's not like there is someone sitting behind him that can come in and change things for the better. Arkansas has a bunch of combo or shooting/swing guards.
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nwahogfan1

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2018, 02:25:08 pm »

That's what happens when the coach refuses to recruit true big men.

Totally agree.  Wonder why. 
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naturalbornpigger

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2018, 02:30:55 pm »

Blaming this on the front court is absurd.  There is no attempt to get them involved in the offense.  Even when they post up down low they don't get the ball.  The bigs spend most of their time setting picks 25 feet from the basket.  If you want numbers from the front court then execute an offense that gives them a chance to score.  Our complete scheme revolves around our guards making shots.  On the other end we give up easy shots to teams that execute.  The problem ain't the players.
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Breems

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Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2018, 03:13:07 pm »

This is one of the chief reasons Mississippi State was able to steal away Reggie Perry, pointing exactly to the 0 sets in the half court that is obvious with Arkansas's style. Same thing the negative recruiters kept telling KeVaughn Allen about avoiding Arkansas and playing for Anderson at all cost. While negative recruiting is going to happen, and there were people in NLR with burrs up their ass about Mike, it's hard to argue what they were telling KA about what would happen playing in an offense with no sets, no real plays.

Macon and Barford play in the Roll The Ball Out There offense with no sets and are both top 4 in the league in scoring. niels_boar posted some telling stats about our offensive efficiency after the UGA game. I guess Allen and Perry are big fans of Spider Y 2 Banana systems. We need Stan Heath and his sets back on the hill to appease the crowd and recruits.
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bvillepig

Re: Front court is killing us
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2018, 03:47:23 pm »

We need Stan Heath and his sets back on the hill to appease the crowd and recruits.

LOL   I enjoy the sold out Bud and roll the ball out. Even though we both know it's a lot more than that.
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