Hogville Info
• 9,752,986 Posts
• 394,709 Topics
• 22,261 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: SEC rewards low skill  (Read 966 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

niels_boar

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 742
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
SEC rewards low skill
« on: January 17, 2018, 12:29:55 pm »

Far be it from me to have sympathy for Big Blue, but they got Starkvilled in Columbia last night. USC has managed 3 SEC wins shooting 43%, 32%, and 42% in eFG%.  They routinely shoot in the high 30's and low 40's inside the arc and in the low 30's and high 20's outside.  Now, South Carolina is a terrific defensive team, but they only managed victories in those games because those were their three highest FTA rates per possession of the season.  USC is 3-0 in SEC games when they make 25+ FTs but 0-3 in games in which they make 19- FTs.  Geez, they made 25 FTs against Vandy shooting 64% from the line.  Coastal Carolina and Limestone managed to foul them less often than UK. Personally I think you should have to be able to make a shot to win a basketball game.  No matter how good their D is, USC must have their O buoyed by the refs to win games, and the refs can find a foul on every possession if they so choose.


BTW since shooting 40 FTAs against us,  MSU has shot 17, 7, 22, and 15 FTAs.  By contrast, Arkansas opponents have shot 22, 19, and 14 freebies.  Players can't adjust to officiating if it is inconsistent from game to game and even half to half.  Macon got called for a foul against LSU on an incidental bump that was away from the ball and 35 feet from the basket.  Every game would take 8 hours if that were called every time down the court. Propping up some of these teams that can't score without help will affect seeding for SEC teams.
Logged

Atlhogfan1

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,973
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 12:36:12 pm »

Far be it from me to have sympathy for Big Blue, but they got Starkvilled in Columbia last night. USC has managed 3 SEC wins shooting 43%, 32%, and 42% in eFG%.  They routinely shoot in the high 30's and low 40's inside the arc and in the low 30's and high 20's outside.  Now, South Carolina is a terrific defensive team, but they only managed victories in those games because those were their three highest FTA rates per possession of the season.  USC is 3-0 in SEC games when they make 25+ FTs but 0-3 in games in which they make 19- FTs.  Geez, they made 25 FTs against Vandy shooting 64% from the line.  Coastal Carolina and Limestone managed to foul them less often than UK. Personally I think you should have to be able to make a shot to win a basketball game.  No matter how good their D is, USC must have their O buoyed by the refs to win games, and the refs can find a foul on every possession if they so choose.


BTW since shooting 40 FTAs against us,  MSU has shot 17, 7, 22, and 15 FTAs.  By contrast, Arkansas opponents have shot 22, 19, and 14 freebies.  Players can't adjust to officiating if it is inconsistent from game to game and even half to half.  Macon got called for a foul against LSU on an incidental bump that was away from the ball and 35 feet from the basket.  Every game would take 8 hours if that were called every time down the court. Propping up some of these teams that can't score without help will affect seeding for SEC teams.


This has been a conference problem for years and its coaches have played a big role.  Barnes rugby basketball to Pearl Ball to Mark Fox to Martin.  They drag down the quality of play and the officiating participates in it. 
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 47
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 52,131
  • Go Hogs and Go Mike Anderson!
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 12:49:02 pm »

How long was that UK - USC game?
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 37
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,220
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 01:20:45 pm »

  No matter how good their D is, USC must have their O buoyed by the refs to win games, and the refs can find a foul on every possession if they so choose.


So wait, now the SEC refs are biased against KY? I was told they always bail out big blue.
Logged

niels_boar

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 742
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 01:31:40 pm »

So wait, now the SEC refs are biased against KY? I was told they always bail out big blue.

UK got 36 FTAs themselves.  It was the highest FTA rate that USC has surrendered all year.  The style still helped USC.  They can get enough stops to win if they can score a lot at the line.
Logged

Razorod

Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 01:36:45 pm »

Martin may or may not be a good coach, but absolutely hate to watch his team. Ugleeee basketball and it is intentional. It was that way at K-State as well.
Logged

mhuff

Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 01:50:29 pm »

UK got 36 FTAs themselves.  It was the highest FTA rate that USC has surrendered all year.  The style still helped USC.  They can get enough stops to win if they can score a lot at the line.

That's how it is done by home officials. You slow down the pace of the game and give the home team a chance to catch up or go ahead without the clock running. That's how it's always been with bad officials.
Logged

Paul

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 3
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,594
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 02:05:56 pm »

Martin may or may not be a good coach, but absolutely hate to watch his team. Ugleeee basketball and it is intentional. It was that way at K-State as well.
I think he's a good coach cuz his players always play hard.  He makes the opponent play his style. 
Logged

ParkerSchnabel

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 214
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 02:20:26 pm »

Far be it from me to have sympathy for Big Blue, but they got Starkvilled in Columbia last night. USC has managed 3 SEC wins shooting 43%, 32%, and 42% in eFG%.  They routinely shoot in the high 30's and low 40's inside the arc and in the low 30's and high 20's outside.  Now, South Carolina is a terrific defensive team, but they only managed victories in those games because those were their three highest FTA rates per possession of the season.  USC is 3-0 in SEC games when they make 25+ FTs but 0-3 in games in which they make 19- FTs.  Geez, they made 25 FTs against Vandy shooting 64% from the line.  Coastal Carolina and Limestone managed to foul them less often than UK. Personally I think you should have to be able to make a shot to win a basketball game.  No matter how good their D is, USC must have their O buoyed by the refs to win games, and the refs can find a foul on every possession if they so choose.


BTW since shooting 40 FTAs against us,  MSU has shot 17, 7, 22, and 15 FTAs.  By contrast, Arkansas opponents have shot 22, 19, and 14 freebies.  Players can't adjust to officiating if it is inconsistent from game to game and even half to half.  Macon got called for a foul against LSU on an incidental bump that was away from the ball and 35 feet from the basket.  Every game would take 8 hours if that were called every time down the court. Propping up some of these teams that can't score without help will affect seeding for SEC teams.

EXCELLENT POST !!!!! I know people hate the ref blaming game. And I get it. But the refs in the SEC are the one thing holding this conference back from being elite. If you are going to let people maul players in the paint then don't call touch fouls on the perimeter. Its bias to style of play. The team that can put the ball in the basket the most is the winner. Not the team who's style of play is more favored by the incompetence of modern day officiating.
Logged

Atlhogfan1

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18,973
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 02:29:33 pm »

http://www.secsports.com/article/19134056/sun-belt-joins-basketball-officiating-consortium

How are they officiating the other conferences in terms of these high FT and foul games?   Others in the consortium seen games like this?   
Logged

maxhog5

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 488
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 02:32:01 pm »

More stupidity.  There is no such thing as SEC refs.  The refs in SEC are the same refs that call in other conferences.
Logged

PonderinHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 47
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 52,131
  • Go Hogs and Go Mike Anderson!
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 02:35:24 pm »

More stupidity.  There is no such thing as SEC refs.  The refs in SEC are the same refs that call in other conferences.
Crazy, isn't it?  Unless they are given guidelines by the conferences on how they want their games officiated.
Logged

cityhog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 1
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,121
  • THE City
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 02:51:43 pm »

College basketball across the board is unwatchable. I know the NBA is having its issues with officiating at the moment, but I seriously can't watch college games anymore. Its just a glorified free throw shooting contest. Unwatchable, no flow, a billion fouls and time outs
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 18
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,623
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2018, 02:13:04 pm »

Far be it from me to have sympathy for Big Blue, but they got Starkvilled in Columbia last night. USC has managed 3 SEC wins shooting 43%, 32%, and 42% in eFG%.  They routinely shoot in the high 30's and low 40's inside the arc and in the low 30's and high 20's outside.  Now, South Carolina is a terrific defensive team, but they only managed victories in those games because those were their three highest FTA rates per possession of the season.  USC is 3-0 in SEC games when they make 25+ FTs but 0-3 in games in which they make 19- FTs.  Geez, they made 25 FTs against Vandy shooting 64% from the line.  Coastal Carolina and Limestone managed to foul them less often than UK. Personally I think you should have to be able to make a shot to win a basketball game.  No matter how good their D is, USC must have their O buoyed by the refs to win games, and the refs can find a foul on every possession if they so choose.


BTW since shooting 40 FTAs against us,  MSU has shot 17, 7, 22, and 15 FTAs.  By contrast, Arkansas opponents have shot 22, 19, and 14 freebies.  Players can't adjust to officiating if it is inconsistent from game to game and even half to half.  Macon got called for a foul against LSU on an incidental bump that was away from the ball and 35 feet from the basket.  Every game would take 8 hours if that were called every time down the court. Propping up some of these teams that can't score without help will affect seeding for SEC teams.

Good analysis. Thanks again.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 37
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,220
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2018, 02:23:34 pm »

Good analysis. Thanks again.

Do you think games would be better officiated if they went back to 2 man crews? I think alot of off the ball stuff would not get called, and that might not be a bad thing.
Logged

311Hog

Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2018, 02:39:51 pm »

Do you think games would be better officiated if they went back to 2 man crews? I think alot of off the ball stuff would not get called, and that might not be a bad thing.

possibly.  in what little ball i have watched this year i feel like the refs are being influenced by the fans/coach/players on the court more than i noticed in the past.  More open arguing, more back and forth.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 37
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,220
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2018, 03:00:55 pm »

possibly.  in what little ball i have watched this year i feel like the refs are being influenced by the fans/coach/players on the court more than i noticed in the past.  More open arguing, more back and forth.

seems to me all coaches do anymore in basketball is gripe and whine constantly about every little thing. Wonder how they'd like it if someone stood right behind them and disagreed with everyting they did all game long?

Anyway, I work both 2 man and 3 man crews, and in 3 man it is easier to see something to call than in 2 man.
Logged

SouthTulsaHog

  • Bench Warmer
  • ***
  • Total likes: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2018, 03:10:37 pm »

Thats why I would like Men's College Basketball to go to 4 10 min quarters like the Women. 5 fouls to get to the bonus. Fouls reset at the beginning of a new quarter. It will prevent teams being in the bonus for the last 12 mins of a half.

Really think it will help the flow of the game too because it cuts on TV time outs as well
Logged

311Hog

Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2018, 03:18:11 pm »

seems to me all coaches do anymore in basketball is gripe and whine constantly about every little thing. Wonder how they'd like it if someone stood right behind them and disagreed with everyting they did all game long?

Anyway, I work both 2 man and 3 man crews, and in 3 man it is easier to see something to call than in 2 man.

oh yeah man my little experience as a referee has opened my eyes alot to it.  To be honest there isnt alot of money in it, and there is almost zero appreciation for it.  I am surprised anyone does the job at all.
Logged

FineAsSwine

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 8
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,077
  • Hogville think tank
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2018, 03:57:08 pm »

oh yeah man my little experience as a referee has opened my eyes alot to it.  To be honest there isnt alot of money in it, and there is almost zero appreciation for it.  I am surprised anyone does the job at all.

Where else would a bunch of control freaks get so much satisfaction?
Logged

ParkerSchnabel

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 214
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2018, 04:45:30 pm »

Do you think games would be better officiated if they went back to 2 man crews? I think alot of off the ball stuff would not get called, and that might not be a bad thing.

I think that officials need to learn CONSISTENCY. That will make the game better. Stop being influenced by home crowds. Every game is different, but its rare to see one where the officials allow the players determine the outcome. Stop interjecting yourselves in the game. The cylinder call is about as ignorant a call as Ii have ever seen. And its bias to a certain type of style.

I'd also like to see the 5 second call come back. It rewards good defense. And again with regard to consistency, if you are going to call ticky tacky slap fouls then don't let an offensive player jump on top of the man in front of him to get a rebound. If a guy is out of position and blocked out and shoves to gain an advantage its a foul.

One last thing. The NCAA needs to figure out some way to throw out all the dregs. How can soooo many incompetent people be in one single profession ? Its unreal. Oh and I forgot. If its a foul in the first half then its a foul in the second half. If its a foul when red does it , its also a foul when blue does it etc...
Logged

ParkerSchnabel

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 0
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 214
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2018, 04:52:27 pm »

Where else would a bunch of control freaks get so much satisfaction?

I laughed my ass off at this.
Logged

niels_boar

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 11
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 742
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 05:55:40 pm »

More stupidity.  There is no such thing as SEC refs.  The refs in SEC are the same refs that call in other conferences.

The SEC is in a consortium with the AAC and ASUN.  There is an SEC Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials.  Part of the job is "recruitment, education and training, scheduling and evaluation of officials in the sport of men's basketball." I imagine the refs know what will get them a good evaluation in a particular conference.

If there was no variance between conferences, nobody would be advocating a National Consortium, which many are.  It wouldn't be necessary.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/03/09/analysis-ncaa-basketball-officiating/24669259/

"There are inconsistencies in rule interpretations and/or enforcement from league to league, or even individual referee to individual referee."
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 07:40:08 pm by niels_boar »
Logged

TNhawgfan

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 5
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 8,889
  • Jimmy G - A New Hope!
Re: SEC rewards low skill
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2018, 09:32:36 am »

Another thing that kills the game's flow are the refs going to the monitor for 5 minutes. All these game stops to see if it's a block or charge, or to see if it was a common foul or technical need to go
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas