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Author Topic: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant  (Read 4940 times)

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Hoginsavga

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #100 on: January 08, 2018, 05:32:38 pm »

So what's the moral to this story? It took 43 years in the SWC, so we have to wait at least another 18 before SEC success will become common place?

No, I am sorry you missed my point. I was simply trying to point out how a team in the same environment can change it’s position in sports with different leadership (coaches). A team can go from good to bad or from bad to good depending on leadership. The same is true not only in sports but in many walks of life. Why did Walmart replace Sears?
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rude1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #101 on: January 08, 2018, 05:36:18 pm »

What’s the difference, other than your defeatism?  You have plenty of company here, but I doubt it is shared by the players and new staff. Some of us who know better need to keep rude fans from revising history to suit their pessimistic viewpoint.
What's different? Seriously? Revising history? Being realistic about what we are up against with 25 years of observing us in this conference is not being pessimistic. As I said we can be a good program, nationally relevant, but in no way will this program become a giant........Wake up!!!!!
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #102 on: January 08, 2018, 05:48:25 pm »

between that and the comment about education I was laughing too hard to reply.

Bama was a sleeping giant due to all the talent close to Tuscaloosa and all that really knocked them down was probation and the fallout from those times.

Arkansas is not close to any talent, and out of state difference makers are not going to come here, not out of state players OR coaches.

CM may end up being a good coach here, but is he going to be the difference maker that turns the program into an awake giant? Doubtful, but I doubt anyone is going to do that.

So there was no difference between the coaching of Shula and DuBose and Saban? You'd set off guffaws all over Alabama and the rest of the Universe that keeps up with CFB with that statement!

You mention all the talent close to Tuscaloosa... I suggest you check the roster of 'Bama's team, not just this year, but ever since Saban started winning big there. You won't find that many Alabama natives on there.

Hurd is from TX, Fitzpatrick NJ, Jacobs Tulsa, Frazier Springdale and on and on. On what map are those places close to Tuscaloosa? I don't know if CM can attract out of state players like that here, I do know we can't if we take the "poor lil' ol' arkinsaw" attitude and don't even offer them..

Bama's success the last 10 years has very little to do with proximity to Tuscaloosa, AL and very much to do with developing and coaching players!
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2018, 05:58:07 pm »

You have to go back to 1948-1953 to find a six year stretch as bad as the last 6 years.  Why everyone thinks the last six years is now the status quo is beyond me. 

Bobby Petrino was 17-15 in SEC games in 4 years, but he was 6-2 his last two.  Houston Nutt was 42-38. 

One thing we know is that Bret Bielema was a disaster.  There is simply no reason why his teams should have underperformed the way they did for as long as they did. 

All it takes is ONE coach to make a difference.

You're right of course, it took a UA alum, Terry Don Phillips, to get things straightened out at Clemson by making the unpopular move of giving the HC job to Swinney 10 years or so ago. Clemson wandered in the same kind of wilderness as we're in now for a long time, late 80s to the last 5-6 years.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #104 on: January 08, 2018, 06:00:01 pm »

What's different? Seriously? Revising history? Being realistic about what we are up against with 25 years of observing us in this conference is not being pessimistic. As I said we can be a good program, nationally relevant, but in no way will this program become a giant........Wake up!!!!!

I and others offer facts and experience and analogies and you say “wake up”.
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #105 on: January 08, 2018, 06:03:45 pm »

"Looks at Clemson" is going to be on our grave stone.  Clemson wasn't in the SEC West.  Clemson could swim up for air.

What happened the last 3 times Clemson played an SEC West team? They beat 'Bama, beat Auburn and lost to 'Bama in the playoff. Won 2 of 3 vs the best of the West.

The division of the ACC they are in has FSU, UNC, NC State and Petrino's UL squad. ACC teams have had a lot of recent success vs the SEC. USCE won 9 games this year and Clemson has owned them the last few years, they beat the Gamecocks like a rented mule. Don't let facts get in the way of a good false narrative.
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redeye

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #106 on: January 08, 2018, 06:20:45 pm »

Didn't want to start a new thread so i'll just ask it here. Had we won the early titles 1966, 1969, 1977 would the amount of championships have helped built a legacy here? I have read here multiple times that we we're cheated due to being the only team not from TX. Would more kids be playing football and have the legacy that Alabama has if we weren't cheated? If Alabama had not had Bear Bryant (winning titles) would they be who they are today?

Was there ever a Friday Night Lights era in Arkansas? I went to school in Little Rock in the 90's and I don't remember football being "BIG" then.

These are great questions.  I wasn't born until '68, but I always felt that things would have been different, if we'd won the AP title in '64.  Adding another in '69 would have cemented Arkansas on the same level as other football powerhouses.  I think Nebraska and Penn State are both good examples, because their success began around the same time as ours.  On the flip side, Ole Miss would probably be another good comparison.

I may be wrong, but I believe pre-WWII college football was dominated by schools up North, likely due to media bias.  I don't think Oklahoma was a power until after the war and I even think that Alabama's pre-WWII success was mostly only in Southern media lore, so I'm not sure that either of them were the great powers we know them to be today, either.  One thing I'm certain about is that college football has changed a lot over the years, so it's hard to predict the future based off the past.  And I'd argue that Alabama would not be the same today, if Bryant had never coached there.

Cheating has certainly affected Arkansas football.  I'm not sure it's fair to use that as an excuse, but I do believe we would have won more games. 

Football in Little Rock was much bigger in the past.  The Turkey game between Hall and Central was always a big event and Little Rock schools dominated the top-10 rankings in the state every year, but I think white flight ruined all that.  However, the affect of all that on Arkansas is overstated, imo.
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Athog

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #107 on: January 08, 2018, 06:22:23 pm »

Rebut to Wally and all those Vandy of the West supporters.

Arkansas never hired a good coach after Hatfield until Petrino. To blame the program for all those years of poor hires is just lazy. Look at Clemson. They were in the wilderness for years before Dabo. Look at Alabama between Bryant and Saban. Coaching makes all the difference. But, at Arkansas we are not ready to win because we are more concerned with money, access, and evangelism. This is only about two things, education and winning. The rest is a personality disorder.

Sorry you are wrong!
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RockyMtnHog

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #108 on: January 08, 2018, 06:23:16 pm »

It is time then to give this sleeping giant some NODOZ before every game and a double dose at half-time.
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Peter Porker

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #109 on: January 08, 2018, 06:32:32 pm »

Say what you want but they weren't ready for the NFL when Petrino arrived. You're wrong, just admit it and move on.

When is a college athlete NFL ready? You said caliber anyway.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #110 on: January 08, 2018, 06:50:16 pm »

What happened the last 3 times Clemson played an SEC West team? They beat 'Bama, beat Auburn and lost to 'Bama in the playoff. Won 2 of 3 vs the best of the West.

The division of the ACC they are in has FSU, UNC, NC State and Petrino's UL squad. ACC teams have had a lot of recent success vs the SEC. USCE won 9 games this year and Clemson has owned them the last few years, they beat the Gamecocks like a rented mule. Don't let facts get in the way of a good false narrative.

It took Dabo a long time to build his program.  He was in a conference where he had the chance to do that.  He wouldn't have had the opportunity in the SECw.  He would have taken beat downs from the top tier teams in the division and fans would have been looking for the next great hope to take their program to places it had never been.  FSU was their only real top tier threat while Dabo built his program.  That's a fact.  No narrative needed.
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Pig Worshipper

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #111 on: January 08, 2018, 07:19:40 pm »

You have to go back to 1948-1953 to find a six year stretch as bad as the last 6 years.  Why everyone thinks the last six years is now the status quo is beyond me. 

Bobby Petrino was 17-15 in SEC games in 4 years, but he was 6-2 his last two.  Houston Nutt was 42-38. 

One thing we know is that Bret Bielema was a disaster.  There is simply no reason why his teams should have underperformed the way they did for as long as they did. 

All it takes is ONE coach to make a difference.
Great post and I completely agree but Chad Morris is NOT that one coach. And, yes, I will be thrilled if he proves me wrong.
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ballz2thewall

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #112 on: January 08, 2018, 07:50:03 pm »

They hired THREE coaches that looked like great hires at the time. Ford, Petrino and Bret. Just because it didn't work out for them doesn't mean they weren't all considered good hires at the time.

ford did not look great at the time.
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TNRazorbacker

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #113 on: January 08, 2018, 08:04:26 pm »

A sleeping giant is a team sitting on a ton of obvious potential and making nothing of it.

This isn’t Arkansas.

Demographically we have arguably the worst recruiting situation in the SEC. One might say even we’ve actually overachieved in a lot of years when you look at what we’ve done compared to teams that recruit similarly, 

Thats not to say there isn't unclaimed potential there. I personally think we can compete much better than we have over the last few years with the right schemes to fit our strengths. We aren't sitting on a sleeping national champion contender though.
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RockyMtnHog

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #114 on: January 08, 2018, 08:46:52 pm »

Arkansas is a sleeping giant for a much improved season and to surprise a few people.  8-4 would be a pleasant surprise.
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Bash

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2018, 09:02:12 pm »

No, I am sorry you missed my point. I was simply trying to point out how a team in the same environment can change it’s position in sports with different leadership (coaches). A team can go from good to bad or from bad to good depending on leadership. The same is true not only in sports but in many walks of life. Why did Walmart replace Sears?

No. 

It's not "Jimmy's and Joe's."  It's not having the right head coach.  It's not having a great offensive scheme and offensive coordinator.  It's not having a great defensive scheme and defensive coordinator.  It's not having money as a program.  It's not having a great facilities.  It's not having great tradition.  It's not having a great AD, booster's and admin. It's not having more fan support. It's not having proximity to talented recruits.

It's all the above.
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PygmalionEffect2

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #116 on: January 08, 2018, 09:30:33 pm »

Watching these college playoff games it's opened my eyes to the disparity between the top 4 teams in the country and the 15th to 25th best teams in the country.

There is no reason a really good coaching staff couldn't get Arkansas in that 15-25 echelon consistently.
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hawganatic

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #117 on: January 08, 2018, 09:49:29 pm »

We have 25 years of history to go on

The last 25 years have nothing to do with the next 25.  This is just a defeatist attitude that causes failure.

I don't know if we will become a "giant" or not, but there is nothing about our program that precludes it from the possibility.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #118 on: January 08, 2018, 10:05:25 pm »

No. 

It's not "Jimmy's and Joe's."  It's not having the right head coach.  It's not having a great offensive scheme and offensive coordinator.  It's not having a great defensive scheme and defensive coordinator.  It's not having money as a program.  It's not having a great facilities.  It's not having great tradition.  It's not having a great AD, booster's and admin. It's not having more fan support. It's not having proximity to talented recruits.

It's all the above.

Best post ever.
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Razorbackers

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #119 on: January 09, 2018, 01:35:31 pm »

A sleeping giant is a team sitting on a ton of obvious potential and making nothing of it.

This isn’t Arkansas.

Demographically we have arguably the worst recruiting situation in the SEC. One might say even we’ve actually overachieved in a lot of years when you look at what we’ve done compared to teams that recruit similarly, 

Thats not to say there isn't unclaimed potential there. I personally think we can compete much better than we have over the last few years with the right schemes to fit our strengths. We aren't sitting on a sleeping national champion contender though.

I said this on page 1, they're not up to hear it.

Arkansas can be a consistently solid team. Arkansas can have double digit win seasons. But we do not have the in state crop year in and year out. The only Arkansas teams that have done big things in the new millennium have been loaded with in state kids that were way above the average Arkansas recruit. The McFadden years and the Petrino years, both rosters stacked with in state playmakers.

We haven't had that kind of class in a while now.   
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #120 on: January 09, 2018, 01:40:04 pm »

What's different? Seriously? Revising history? Being realistic about what we are up against with 25 years of observing us in this conference is not being pessimistic. As I said we can be a good program, nationally relevant, but in no way will this program become a giant........Wake up!!!!!
If you worked for me you'd be fired... You are absolutely correct in your position and we have reached our full potential with you in the organization.
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orvillesghost

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #121 on: January 09, 2018, 08:18:26 pm »

If you think Arkansas is ever going to be a program comparable to Alabama, Ohio State, etc..year in and year out,  you are going to be doomed to a life of disappointment.

We can do better than four wins in a year sure but at best its going to be incredibly difficult to ever field a team capable of winning the SEC and making the playoff. Maybe, just maybe, once in a 10 year period or so.

But year to year? No way
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #122 on: January 09, 2018, 08:49:42 pm »

If you think Arkansas is ever going to be a program comparable to Alabama, Ohio State, etc..year in and year out,  you are going to be doomed to a life of disappointment.

We can do better than four wins in a year sure but at best its going to be incredibly difficult to ever field a team capable of winning the SEC and making the playoff. Maybe, just maybe, once in a 10 year period or so.

But year to year? No way

Agreed. Nothing wrong with who we are. I wouldn’t trade Arkansas for Alabama and certainly not Ohio State. No need to wallow in misery and act like we aren’t about 7th in the SEC in terms of tradition and long range potential, either. Or that one day we might be better than that.
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EastexHawg

Re: Arkansas is a sleeping Giant
« Reply #123 on: January 09, 2018, 08:51:52 pm »

We have the world's greatest fans.  When it comes to talking about how our team is mediocre now, has been mediocre in the past, and can only expect to be mediocre in the future we are second to none.

Not only that, but we are passionate.  Anyone daring to suggest we can be not only not mediocre but outstanding... and that we have in fact been outstanding in the past...is quickly and thoroughly told what a clueless moron he is.  We'll have none of that talk around here!
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