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Author Topic: "Deep Bench"  (Read 842 times)

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dalefromspringdale

"Deep Bench"
« on: January 07, 2018, 05:49:01 pm »

Can we stop gloating our deep bench as if its a strength of ours? That seems to be our biggest weakness. Yes, we have A LOT of big men, but we aren't deep at all at the guard position. To have a deep bench you need to have a backup for all the positions and that is something we don't have. We can't seem to find any time during the game to give Barford or Macon a break, and if we do I'm usually holding my breath that the game doesn't slip away.

I will say that we got some really good minutes from Hall in this last game (Auburn). He seemed to fit the offense well and took what the defense gave him. If CJ Jones is gonna be as inconsistent as he's been it will be really nice to have Hall play the way he did yesterday. I could see him improving a lot over the next month if he keeps this up and gets extended minutes like yesterday.

If we can get good *consistent* guard play off the bench we will be a much better team. Hopefully we have that part figured out when Auburn comes to the Bud in Feb.
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alohawg

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 06:21:01 pm »

Some of Nolans teams had a better bench than the current starters.
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Knot2brite

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 06:25:01 pm »

I wouldn't say we have a lot of BIG men...maybe two ...we have a lot of kids that are between 6'6-6'8 that aren't guards...but they are not post players either...now we are using them as that but they aren't built for it or they aren't skilled for low post play...but you are right...we have few guards....a bunch of tweeners
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BannerMountainMan

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 06:28:58 pm »

WTH two games ago everybody was saying we have a great roster, two games later y'all are saying we suck bad?? I'm so confused again
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dalefromspringdale

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 06:30:26 pm »

I wouldn't say we have a lot of BIG men...maybe two ...we have a lot of kids that are between 6'6-6'8 that aren't guards...but they are not post players either...now we are using them as that but they aren't built for it or they aren't skilled for low post play...but you are right...we have few guards....a bunch of tweeners

The 4 position in MA's system usually isn't a "post player", but I still refer to the as big men because they still have big men responsibilities. But you are right, we have 2 posts and 3 athletic PFs.
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dalefromspringdale

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 06:32:38 pm »

WTH two games ago everybody was saying we have a great roster, two games later y'all are saying we suck bad?? I'm so confused again

This post has nothing to do with what other people were saying a week ago. It is my opinion that I've felt, and now I'm posting it because hindsight is 20/20.  ;D

We have never had depth at the guard position all season long. There were a few games that CJ did really good. We have good starters but I've thought all season long the depth at guard would catch up to us unless Barford and Macon can play 40 minutes.
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Knot2brite

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 06:40:23 pm »

Jones and Hall are???? Slashers/Shooters? Bailey would be a dominant 4 if he was two inches taller. Cook is ...five fouls and a occasional stop gap...Gabe is a long term project....Thomas is what he is at best and we know the post players...
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Sow Lancelot

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Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 06:45:32 pm »

Some of Nolans teams had a better bench than the current starters.
Amen
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niels_boar

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Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 07:00:39 pm »

The bench wasn't the problem against Auburn.  They went 10 of 17 from the field, had 21 of our 35 boards, 6 of our 13 assists, 3 of our 4 blocks, and only 3 TOs in 74 minutes.  Bailey and Hall are arguably two of our three best all-court defensive players.  If Jones had added a couple of treys, we would have gotten everything that we needed from the bench.

The starters have to do better than hand them a 9-point deficit at the second TV timeout. They didn't make up hardly any ground at the beginning of the second half either.  We got back in the game with Hall and Thompson on the court.  In order to win in a hostile gym against a good team we need better than 3 of 11 (0-5) from Macon and more than 8 points, 4 boards, and a block from Gafford.  Those guys aren't going to play great every game, but not many teams are going to win road games against quality very often if two of their four main guys are ordinary.
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niels_boar

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Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 07:11:17 pm »

This post has nothing to do with what other people were saying a week ago. It is my opinion that I've felt, and now I'm posting it because hindsight is 20/20.  ;D

We have never had depth at the guard position all season long. There were a few games that CJ did really good. We have good starters but I've thought all season long the depth at guard would catch up to us unless Barford and Macon can play 40 minutes.

Everybody knew this team was short a guard when a 4-star, top-100 recruit had to be redshirted for health reasons.  You just have to work around it.  We need a game in which we get off to a good start, and Jones knocks down a couple of shots.  That will get the situation back to manageable, if not ideal.  Jones scored in double figures against UNC, UConn, and Minnesota.  He is not going to disappear for the rest of the season.  It's amazing how fans disregard all prior evidence, and assume every player is what he was in his last game or two, especially if they were bad games.  No team or player is as good as his best performance or as bad as his worst.
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rmcchris

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 07:14:34 pm »

Can we stop gloating our deep bench as if its a strength of ours? That seems to be our biggest weakness. Yes, we have A LOT of big men, but we aren't deep at all at the guard position. To have a deep bench you need to have a backup for all the positions and that is something we don't have. We can't seem to find any time during the game to give Barford or Macon a break, and if we do I'm usually holding my breath that the game doesn't slip away.

I will say that we got some really good minutes from Hall in this last game (Auburn). He seemed to fit the offense well and took what the defense gave him. If CJ Jones is gonna be as inconsistent as he's been it will be really nice to have Hall play the way he did yesterday. I could see him improving a lot over the next month if he keeps this up and gets extended minutes like yesterday.

If we can get good *consistent* guard play off the bench we will be a much better team. Hopefully we have that part figured out when Auburn comes to the Bud in Feb.
Valid points.  With Mike, he is stubborn & SOS.  Same rotations, 9/10 deep no matter how they are playing (see Jones). Same defensive switching with bigs on good SEC guards out high.   Good for those players confidence but not such on the scoreboard, especially on the road. We have been out hustled, out played on defense,  especially at the guard positions and out rebounded on the two game road losses.  Still have the team and talent to win, but just frustrating to watch, when you know we are going to lose the game after watching the first 10 minutes of a road game. SOS.  Intensity not the same, no coaching adjustments (name some? & don't name going to the zone and standing and watching them shoot threes and while they were already hot from three point range).  Talent galore, but just hard to watch sometimes. Long season, Go Hogs Go.
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dalefromspringdale

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 07:29:31 pm »

Everybody knew this team was short a guard when a 4-star, top-100 recruit had to be redshirted for health reasons.  You just have to work around it.  We need a game in which we get off to a good start, and Jones knocks down a couple of shots.  That will get the situation back to manageable, if not ideal.  Jones scored in double figures against UNC, UConn, and Minnesota.  He is not going to disappear for the rest of the season.  It's amazing how fans disregard all prior evidence, and assume every player is what he was in his last game or two, especially if they were bad games.  No team or player is as good as his best performance or as bad as his worst.

I said Jones played good in a few games in my post. It seems you are only looking at those few games and disregarding the rest. I really think Jones is gonna be fine, he just lacks confidence in his shot sometimes and that can change overnight.
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dalefromspringdale

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 07:37:31 pm »

Does anyone know how many minutes Gafford played in the game? It seemed like he played less than half of the game which probably played a big role in him not being a factor in the game (defensively). I thought Thompson had a great game, but we still need Gafford on the floor. We won't win on the road with him on the bench.
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niels_boar

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Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 05:23:05 pm »

I said Jones played good in a few games in my post. It seems you are only looking at those few games and disregarding the rest. I really think Jones is gonna be fine, he just lacks confidence in his shot sometimes and that can change overnight.

Scoring in double figures in a stretch of 6 of 7 games is more than a few games.  In fact, he scored 7+ in 8 of our first 11.  It's not accurate to imply that he just had a "few" good games. He was fine until Christmas break.  His four worst games have been his last four, which are an aberration compared to his first 11.  The odds of him being a 3-minute reserve, as against Auburn, the rest of the season are highly unlikely.  Despite his recent slump he's still shooting 40% from the arc on the third most attempts on the team, which shows how good he was before the break.
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bigred223

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Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 05:53:39 pm »

I think our rotations are the biggest issue right now. We also need to ride with hall more. Let him take his lumps. The potential is there.
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dalefromspringdale

Re: "Deep Bench"
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2018, 01:56:39 pm »

Scoring in double figures in a stretch of 6 of 7 games is more than a few games.  In fact, he scored 7+ in 8 of our first 11.  It's not accurate to imply that he just had a "few" good games. He was fine until Christmas break.  His four worst games have been his last four, which are an aberration compared to his first 11.  The odds of him being a 3-minute reserve, as against Auburn, the rest of the season are highly unlikely.  Despite his recent slump he's still shooting 40% from the arc on the third most attempts on the team, which shows how good he was before the break.

Shall we revisit this? Stats in nonconference games against mediocre opponents mean nothing. 3 pt % is a very small part of the game. 40% from 3 is great, but 42% from the floor is bad especially for a reserve. I didn't even mention his defense the first time around.

Hall has made huge improvements on offense and defense. He's getting more minutes now and has earned them.
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