Hogville Info
• 9,712,037 Posts
• 393,891 Topics
• 22,230 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Defense wins championships.  (Read 3237 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TebowHater

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,208
  • DMAC > teBLOW
Defense wins championships.
« on: January 02, 2018, 11:24:24 am »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2
Logged

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Hogville Executive Consulting LLC
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 11:30:18 am »

The reason is everyone runs some type of spread that runs up the score and that's what they rely on. The winner of games is usually the team that can get just one or 2 key stops during those shootout games. What we see in the playoffs, however, is a group of teams that can run the score up on you and shut down your offense as well.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

Vantage 8 dude

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,716
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 11:56:17 am »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2
I've always pretty much agreed with this notion. However, in today's college game I'm not sure if most teams even recognize there's another side of the ball. With the exception of just a handful-of course 'Bama, UGa, Clemson to mention three of the most prominent seems most other teams either don't recognize the importance or just do a poor job of execution.

Seems the game has become something akin to "basketball on grass". Some of it has to do with rule changes that have so often favored offenses; perhaps some of it may also have to do with less live scrimmaging/tackling in practice. Whatever the root of the issue(s) the scoreboards seem to light up like a pinball machine even in many games where two good defenses are supposedly at work.
Logged

oldman1015

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,951
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 11:57:39 am »

Rule changes have killed this theory.
Logged

hawganatic

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,358
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 12:00:00 pm »

Scoring more points than the other team wins championships.  Doesn't matter if you do it by scoring, or by keeping the other team from scoring.

Since it appears we can't get the talent needed to have a top defense to come to Arkansas, and it is easier to scheme and coach up offensive players, that is the route we should probably go...
Logged

Hawghiggs

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,760
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 12:08:56 pm »

 Can we not concentrate on the hawgs just having winning seasons? I know everyone wants to win championships. But I'd just like Morris to average 8or9 wins during the season and go to a good bowl game.
Logged

Mjs84

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 286
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 12:23:00 pm »

The reason is everyone runs some type of spread that runs up the score and that's what they rely on. The winner of games is usually the team that can get just one or 2 key stops during those shootout games. What we see in the playoffs, however, is a group of teams that can run the score up on you and shut down your offense as well.

Yes
Logged

cardinalandwhite

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,764
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 12:29:02 pm »

It's harder to get elite athletes for defense than offense, for starters. Only a hand full of schools can get enough athletes at receiver to put a player like Patrick Peterson at corner. The few teams that can give themselves a huge advantage in big games. If Oklahoma could have fielded a mediocre defense to support Mayfield and company they would have beat Georgia handily. As it is, they were exposed and the maxim held true.
Logged

Nashville Fan

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,437
  • Welcome to next year!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 12:36:29 pm »

If Oklahoma didn't have a sick QB this thread might not exist.

Statistically, that does not hold true in all sports. NFL for example.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,053
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 12:48:45 pm »

If Oklahoma didn't have a sick QB this thread might not exist.

Statistically, that does not hold true in all sports. NFL for example.

Really? Going to play the illness card? MAybe if OU had a defense capable of stopping anyone this thread would not exist. GA ran through OU's defense like it wasnt even there.

Rule changes have killed this theory.

No, just changed it a little. Used to be you needed a D to make 21 pts hold up, now you need one to make 35 hold up.
Logged

Freebrd

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 12:57:13 pm »

If Oklahoma didn't have a sick QB this thread might not exist.

Statistically, that does not hold true in all sports. NFL for example.
But all I heard was Baker missed an interview, whereas Jalen miss two practices.  The way Baker was running around during the game, a miraculous recovery I'd say.
Logged

Hardcore Hoggy

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,284
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 01:23:14 pm »

It's harder to get elite athletes for defense than offense, for starters. Only a hand full of schools can get enough athletes at receiver to put a player like Patrick Peterson at corner. The few teams that can give themselves a huge advantage in big games. If Oklahoma could have fielded a mediocre defense to support Mayfield and company they would have beat Georgia handily. As it is, they were exposed and the maxim held true.


Yep, witness Joe Adams as an example of that, kid should have been a defensive back. He would have been incredible, but Arkansas couldn't afford not to have him on the offensive side of the ball .

Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35,500
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2018, 01:34:18 pm »

If Oklahoma didn't have a sick QB this thread might not exist.

Statistically, that does not hold true in all sports. NFL for example.

Oh bull hockey. He played well. Georgia simply played better in the second half and OT.
Logged

sevenof400

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,011
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2018, 01:35:45 pm »

But all I heard was Baker missed an interview, whereas Jalen miss two practices.  The way Baker was running around during the game, a miraculous recovery I'd say.

More than likely, a lot of Baker's absence was to avoid questions on his behavior this year.
Logged

12247

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,599
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2018, 02:11:12 pm »

Honestly, the 2 championship games played out exactly like I wanted them to.  I believed BAMA would come onsite with a terrific defense because Saban would REFUSE to have it any other way.  Anyone notice Saban tearing the OCs rear up on TV last night.  When Saban tells a recruit, come to BAMA and this staff will do everything we can to make you better, assist you in winning championships, asure you will be seen by the NFL, etc.. HE DAMN WELL MEANS IT AND SOME, TAKE A PLAY OFF ASSISTANT, WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT.

Attitude is the first step in winning championships.  Anyone notice Smart coaching his rear off last night.  The man was wide awake, doing everything he knew how to do to get another tenth second, half step, better angle, best attitude, everything to try and win.  It worked.  He was also humble in victory, a total show of respect.  Smart has the makings of a very good coach.

Though there are many reasons why the 4 teams in the playoff were there, Refusing to be Denied was number 1 for all 4 teams.  Attention to every detail, no excuses.  With average defenses all around in the playoffs, OU would win the NC.  They had firepower to score almost at will against a solid but average D.  Ga showed them a superior D the second half and thats the old ball game.

Logged

Nashville Fan

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,437
  • Welcome to next year!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 02:12:39 pm »

Really? Going to play the illness card? MAybe if OU had a defense capable of stopping anyone this thread would not exist. GA ran through OU's defense like it wasnt even there.

No, just changed it a little. Used to be you needed a D to make 21 pts hold up, now you need one to make 35 hold up.

I couldn't care less about OU or GA.
I wanted both of them to lose! I hate GA and OU.

With OU in the playoffs, no one would agree with this incorrect OP. It is just the law of averages. 50% of the time, a team with a better defense wins; and, 50% of the time, a team with a better offense wins.

Even in the short period of the NCAA Bowl Series play off, it shows as 50/50 split. That 50/50 split holds up with the analysis that the bookies do on the NFL.

If you take out the group of 5 schools, who will never factor into the championship game,

below are the rankings from the first three championship games.

2014 OH ST - Offense #6 / Defense #17 - One for Offense
2015 AL  - Offenses #25 / Defense #3 - One for Defense
2016 Clemson - Offense #6 / Defense #6 - Tie

From actual numbers, I would argue that you have to have both offense and defense in the top 25, with one in the top 6 to win a championship.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 12:38:08 pm by Nashville Fan »
Logged

Pig Power

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,341
  • I am Hog Wild
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 02:15:09 pm »

Scoring more points than the other team wins championships.  Doesn't matter if you do it by scoring, or by keeping the other team from scoring.

Since it appears we can't get the talent needed to have a top defense to come to Arkansas, and it is easier to scheme and coach up offensive players, that is the route we should probably go...
Going "Air Coryell" Ole Charger days - Can't stop them, just have to outscore them
Logged

hawganatic

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,358
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 02:15:40 pm »

As it is, they were exposed and the maxim held true.

What maxim?  The final score of the game was 54-48.  You could make an argument that offense won the game for Georgia more than defense did.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,053
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 02:22:29 pm »

What maxim?  The final score of the game was 54-48.  You could make an argument that offense won the game for Georgia more than defense did.

Or that OU's lack of a defense got them beat. Or that Ga's D finally stood up late in the 4th and in OT and stopped several key 3rd down plays.
Logged

Ex-Trumpet

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 13,765
  • When life gives you lemons, get a boob job!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 03:02:40 pm »

It's a fact that spread offenses score more points, thus putting their defenses on the field more.  This creates more opportunities for the opposing teams as well.

Defenses are probably as good today as they ever have been; but, due to the changes in the offenses being run it's dang near impossible to compare them based on points allowed--or even total yards, since each offense is getting more touches. 

And yards per play will most likely be tainted due to defenses playing more plays per game and getting tired.

I don't have stats on this...just my own personal observation and opinion.  I can be swayed with some facts!!   ;D
Logged

oldman1015

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,951
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2018, 03:06:33 pm »

It's a fact that spread offenses score more points, thus putting their defenses on the field more.  This creates more opportunities for the opposing teams as well.

Defenses are probably as good today as they ever have been; but, due to the changes in the offenses being run it's dang near impossible to compare them based on points allowed--or even total yards, since each offense is getting more touches. 

And yards per play will most likely be tainted due to defenses playing more plays per game and getting tired.

I don't have stats on this...just my own personal observation and opinion.  I can be swayed with some facts!!   ;D
Not being able to smoke recievers coming across the middle or hit one who is not looking has changed the game forever.
Logged

Ex-Trumpet

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 13,765
  • When life gives you lemons, get a boob job!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2018, 03:10:06 pm »

Not being able to smoke recievers coming across the middle or hit one who is not looking has changed the game forever.

Yeah, and the targeting rule is used way too much.  If a ball carrier lowers his head the defender gets the flag. 

I'm all for safety but "targeting" is called when it was obvious the ball carrier was not "targeted;" he was hit during a football move.
Logged

hawganatic

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,358
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2018, 03:14:33 pm »

Or that OU's lack of a defense got them beat. Or that Ga's D finally stood up late in the 4th and in OT and stopped several key 3rd down plays.

Georgia's defense did play very well in the second half, but its still a fact that they had to score 54 points to win the game.

I don't think this is a good game to use as an example of "defense wins championships."
Logged

Flrazrback

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 243
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2018, 03:28:20 pm »

Clemson Defense was darn stout last night and if it has not been for offensive errors Clemson might very well have won the game.  Venables did a great job game planning.. 
Logged

hawgdavis

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,804
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2018, 03:40:18 pm »

If Oklahoma didn't have a sick QB this thread might not exist.

Statistically, that does not hold true in all sports. NFL for example.

What ever he didn’t look sick to me. The real Ga showed up in the 2nd 1/2 and took care of business. OK is a really good team GA is just a little better and Clemson isn’t quite as good as everyone believed they were this year. Bama was just Bama. My money is still on UGA to get it done.

Baker Mayfield sick bs. He has a big mouth so they wanted to keep him away from the media so he wouldn’t run his big mouth and the accomplished thier objective but couldn’t stop the run at all and couldn’t get a TD when they needed to so they lost. Come on man you know better.
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 40,706
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2018, 03:40:52 pm »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2

Yes and no. There are some teams with pretty good defenses that couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag offensively. If you are going to be competitive at a high level, the offense has a responsibility as well. As an example, Alabama has given up just 3 plays over 40 yards and 1 play over 50 yards in length all year long. They made everyone earn every yard they got against them. But they also had a decent offense (#27 nationally) that helped their defense keep from having to be on the field all the time.

On the other hand look at a team like BYU that normally is a pretty good team and can at times, pull some upsets. Their defense allowed just 9 plays over 40 yards in length and just 4 over 50 all season long, but their defense suffered (middle 50's in total D) because they were left on the field too long by an offense that ranked just #118 in the country. Very uncharacteristic for BYU.

So yes, it appears that defense wins championships in championship games, but they only get that chance when the offense is good enough in conjunction with defense to work successfully as a total unit.
Logged

#1 STUNNA

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,882
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2018, 04:18:33 pm »

Clemson Defense was darn stout last night and if it has not been for offensive errors Clemson might very well have won the game.  Venables did a great job game planning.. 

Alabama would beat clemson 10/10 times most likely.
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,836
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2018, 04:24:01 pm »

Georgia's defense did play very well in the second half, but its still a fact that they had to score 54 points to win the game.

I don't think this is a good game to use as an example of "defense wins championships."


Made plays when it mattered

Logged

TebowHater

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,208
  • DMAC > teBLOW
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2018, 05:35:05 pm »

Yes and no. There are some teams with pretty good defenses that couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag offensively. If you are going to be competitive at a high level, the offense has a responsibility as well. As an example, Alabama has given up just 3 plays over 40 yards and 1 play over 50 yards in length all year long. They made everyone earn every yard they got against them. But they also had a decent offense (#27 nationally) that helped their defense keep from having to be on the field all the time.

On the other hand look at a team like BYU that normally is a pretty good team and can at times, pull some upsets. Their defense allowed just 9 plays over 40 yards in length and just 4 over 50 all season long, but their defense suffered (middle 50's in total D) because they were left on the field too long by an offense that ranked just #118 in the country. Very uncharacteristic for BYU.

So yes, it appears that defense wins championships in championship games, but they only get that chance when the offense is good enough in conjunction with defense to work successfully as a total unit.

Obviously, you have to have both be decent. In fact, the two teams with the highest average rank between their O and D are the two still playing (Both had both in the top 15). But while there is only one not top 4 defense in the playoff, there is simultaneously only one top 4 offense in the playoff, and this team did not advance. The teams with the best defenses are who make it. Put differently, having a top offense is great, but it won't get you to the playoff. That said, I completely concur with the notion that we have a better chance of out scoring people than out defending them, given the talent we will have access to. Unfortunately, this is not the best recipe for winning championships, but likely is the best recipe for us to maximize our winning potential. That is all.

You have to go all the way to #13 in scoring to find the next highest after OU at 3, who is out. Georgia is 15. Clemson is 40.

1   Central FL   46.2   48.3   34.0   54.0   38.3   28.0
2   Memphis   45.7   48.3   20.0   46.7   44.2   39.2
3   Oklahoma   45.1   49.3   48.0   48.2   42.9   43.9
4   Oklahoma St   45.0   42.7   30.0   49.8   40.9   36.8
5   Ohio State   41.1   27.3   24.0   44.1   38.1   39.4
6   Penn State   41.1   52.3   35.0   45.6   35.8   37.6
7   Fla Atlantic   40.2   40.7   50.0   42.7   37.3   25.4
8   Arizona   39.6   31.0   35.0   38.8   40.1   24.2
9   S Florida   38.9   35.7   38.0   34.8   42.3   42.8
10   Ohio   37.4   33.0   41.0   39.2   36.1   25.5
11   Arkansas St   36.9   40.7   30.0   38.2   36.1   27.7
12   Louisville   36.7   42.3   27.0   39.8   34.4   42.5
13   Alabama   36.4   23.0   24.0   43.0   29.8   39.4


Logged

Switchback

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 273
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2018, 05:35:47 pm »

OU had the best QB in college football this year.  If they only had an average QB they would have gotten smoked.
Logged

hawginbigd1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,376
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 05:36:12 pm »

Rule changes have killed this theory.
Yeah i would agree except those pesky facts that your wrong get in the way. Top 20 defenses have won every championship i can recall.
Logged

Bubba's Bruisers

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26,856
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 05:42:11 pm »

Georgia's defense did play very well in the second half, but its still a fact that they had to score 54 points to win the game.

I don't think this is a good game to use as an example of "defense wins championships."

The point is OU has the best offense in the country lead by the most dynamic QB in college.  UGA hadn't seen anything like OU's offense.  It was expected that UGA's D would struggle in the 1st half while finding it's footing.  They made the HT adjustments, though, and UGA's D basically flipped the script.  Practically turned on a dime.  Was incredible to watch.  That was the difference.
Logged

TebowHater

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,208
  • DMAC > teBLOW
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 05:45:21 pm »

The point is OU has the best offense in the country lead by the most dynamic QB in college.  UGA hadn't seen anything like OU's offense.  It was expected that UGA's D would struggle in the 1st half while finding it's footing.  They made the HT adjustments, though, and UGA's D basically flipped the script.  Practically turned on a dime.  Was incredible to watch.  That was the difference.

This. Georgia's D was filthy in the second half and won them the game.
Logged

Ex-Trumpet

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 13,765
  • When life gives you lemons, get a boob job!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2018, 05:45:33 pm »

The point is OU has the best offense in the country lead by the most dynamic QB in college.  UGA hadn't seen anything like OU's offense.  It was expected that UGA's D would struggle in the 1st half while finding it's footing.  They made the HT adjustments, though, and UGA's D basically flipped the script.  Practically turned on a dime.  Was incredible to watch.  That was the difference.

UGa should have to forfeit...it isn't fair to change game plans during half time.
Logged

Bubba's Bruisers

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26,856
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 05:48:03 pm »

UGa should have to forfeit...it isn't fair to change game plans during half time.

Smart/UGA will be Saban/Bama 2.0. 
Logged

LZH

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 21,231
  • Tight but Loose
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2018, 06:23:46 pm »

Defenses eventually figured out the wishbone, the run & shoot, etc. I'm sure there will come a day where unless you have a phenomenal QB/athlete, you're on to something else.
Logged

HiggiePiggy

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,003
  • Hope...
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 06:33:55 pm »

Defense does win championships. So does top 5 recruiting classes every year with those great defensive players. 

We would all love to have 4 and 5 star players backing up 4 and 5 star players, but that isn’t happening.

It’s why majority of Arkansas fans understand we will probably never win a NC in football.
Logged

bythelake

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,730
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2018, 06:34:14 pm »

Tebow,  great info.  Thanks.

Frank Broyles and I agree.  😏
Logged

Cinco de Hogo

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,107
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2018, 06:55:04 pm »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2

Still stuck on "out Bama Bama" are ya?  No really I understand the concept but it just isn't a practical approach for Arkansas now or anytime in the near future. 
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 40,706
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2018, 07:06:47 pm »

Obviously, you have to have both be decent. In fact, the two teams with the highest average rank between their O and D are the two still playing (Both had both in the top 15). But while there is only one not top 4 defense in the playoff, there is simultaneously only one top 4 offense in the playoff, and this team did not advance. The teams with the best defenses are who make it. Put differently, having a top offense is great, but it won't get you to the playoff. That said, I completely concur with the notion that we have a better chance of out scoring people than out defending them, given the talent we will have access to. Unfortunately, this is not the best recipe for winning championships, but likely is the best recipe for us to maximize our winning potential. That is all.

You have to go all the way to #13 in scoring to find the next highest after OU at 3, who is out. Georgia is 15. Clemson is 40.

1   Central FL   46.2   48.3   34.0   54.0   38.3   28.0
2   Memphis   45.7   48.3   20.0   46.7   44.2   39.2
3   Oklahoma   45.1   49.3   48.0   48.2   42.9   43.9
4   Oklahoma St   45.0   42.7   30.0   49.8   40.9   36.8
5   Ohio State   41.1   27.3   24.0   44.1   38.1   39.4
6   Penn State   41.1   52.3   35.0   45.6   35.8   37.6
7   Fla Atlantic   40.2   40.7   50.0   42.7   37.3   25.4
8   Arizona   39.6   31.0   35.0   38.8   40.1   24.2
9   S Florida   38.9   35.7   38.0   34.8   42.3   42.8
10   Ohio   37.4   33.0   41.0   39.2   36.1   25.5
11   Arkansas St   36.9   40.7   30.0   38.2   36.1   27.7
12   Louisville   36.7   42.3   27.0   39.8   34.4   42.5
13   Alabama   36.4   23.0   24.0   43.0   29.8   39.4


You don't get my point at all, I don't think.

I'm not saying that you have to have a high flying offense that scores gobs of points, though that seems to be where many are going now and especially those that can't recruit at a high enough level to have a top defense.

I am merely saying that there needs to be a balance between the two that forms a strong coalition, so that the team overall and as an entire unit, benefits more than by having one unit having to work harder and have more required of them, to overcome the shortcomings of a weaker unit on the other side of the ball.

Hopefully, that makes sense and that is why I offered extreme examples of Alabama at one end of the spectrum, as opposed to BYU who while having a good defense, doesn't have a good offense as an offset this year.
Logged

jm

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,254
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 11:19:44 pm »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2



You haven't been paying attention. All we need is a spread offense with a QB that runs real good. If we do that we will score 50 on everyone and don't even need a defense. And, so far it appears that our new coach intends to give it a try.
Logged

Bob Slydell

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 864
  • Well, just a second there professor...
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 07:47:39 am »

What maxim?  The final score of the game was 54-48.  You could make an argument that offense won the game for Georgia more than defense did.

They gave up 7 points to the Heisman winner and the best offense in the country in the entire second half.  They don't erase a 17 point deficit without their defense shutting OU down.  Not sure why you think scores inflated by OT are an indicator that defense didn't win that game.
Logged

HoggyCat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,639
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 07:50:30 am »

Say what you want, but 3 of the top 4 defenses in points per game in CFB are in the playoff, and both teams still playing. The one top 4 D who wasn't in the playoff is Wisconsin, and they did ok this year, too.

RK   TEAM   YDS   YDS/G Ps  P YDS/G   RUSH R YDS/G   PTS   PTS/G
1   Alabama   3093   258   1964   163.7   1129    94.1        138   11.5
2   Clemson   3613   278   2146   165.1   1467    112.8      166   12.8
3   Wisconsin   3292   253   2088   160.6   1204    92.6         171   13.2
4   Georgia   3522   271   2058   158.3   1464    112.6       172   13.2


FWIW,
82   Texas A&M 4664 389   2689   224.1   1975   164.6   344   28.7
116   Arkansas   5259   438   2906   242.2   2353   196.1   434   36.2

Updated stats have CHAVIS & A&M @ 87.
Logged

Hardcore Hoggy

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,284
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 08:30:21 am »

Georgia's defense did play very well in the second half, but its still a fact that they had to score 54 points to win the game.

I don't think this is a good game to use as an example of "defense wins championships."

Doesn't matter if the score was 100-99. The point remains , to win a championship you MUST have a defense that can and will make stops when it matters most.

Even the best defense is going to run up against offenses that can score a lot of points against them from time to time, but a great defense will even after giving up a lot of yards and points make great plays when it matters most and win those games and championships.
Logged

Michael D Huff AIA

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 633
  • Calling the Hogs since 1974.
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 08:53:00 am »

I know these stats come from the NFL, but the book "Scorecasting" (A really good read for sports fans) talks about the notion that 'defense wins championships', and is mostly false.  The statement could be modified so say 'defense wins championships, but it helps to have a good offense, too'.

It breaks down like this:

As of the writing of the book there had been 407 NFL playoff games. 
58% were won by the better defensive team
62% were won by the better offensive team.
(Yes, that adds up to greater than 100%, but sometimes the better defensive team is also the better offensive team)

A top 5 defense during the regular season had won 195 playoff games
A top 5 offense during the regular season had won 192 playoff games

Over the course of 10,000 regular season NFL games:
66.5% were won by the better defense
67.4% were won by the better offense
(Yes, that adds up to greater than 100%, but sometimes the better defensive team is also the better offensive team)

3 - The number of times the Super Bowl champion was in the bottom half of the league in defense.
2 - The number of times the Super Bowl champion was in the bottom half of the league in offense.

For comparison's sake, in NBA playoff games going back to 1947, the better defensive team wins 54.4% of the time while the better offensive team wins 54.8% of the time.
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,836
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2018, 08:57:40 am »

OU had the best QB in college football this year.  If they only had an average QB they would have gotten smoked.


Lots of QBs would be good if they had 7 seconds to throw.


Mayfield is a system QB playing behind a good line that acts like a 5th grader.......
Logged

prattville pig

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 295
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2018, 09:09:11 am »

Georgia's halftime adjustments were very impressive, if they can do the same against bama, they will beat them too.
Logged

hawganatic

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,358
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2018, 09:15:43 am »

They gave up 7 points to the Heisman winner and the best offense in the country in the entire second half.  They don't erase a 17 point deficit without their defense shutting OU down.  Not sure why you think scores inflated by OT are an indicator that defense didn't win that game.

The score wasn't that inflated by OT.  Think it was 45-45 at the end of regulation.

Not sure why you think that only the defense won that game.  GA defense made played great in the second half, but they also don't erase a 17 point deficit if their offense doesn't take care of business on their side either.

It's not an all or nothing situation.  It can be that both their defense AND offense won that game.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47,053
  • You like my stripes, I know you do.
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2018, 09:44:18 am »

The score wasn't that inflated by OT.  Think it was 45-45 at the end of regulation.

Not sure why you think that only the defense won that game.  GA defense made played great in the second half, but they also don't erase a 17 point deficit if their offense doesn't take care of business on their side either.

It's not an all or nothing situation.  It can be that both their defense AND offense won that game.

Their 2nd half defense gave the offense a chance to come back.
Logged

Bob Slydell

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 864
  • Well, just a second there professor...
Re: Defense wins championships.
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2018, 10:00:05 am »

The score wasn't that inflated by OT.  Think it was 45-45 at the end of regulation.

Not sure why you think that only the defense won that game.  GA defense made played great in the second half, but they also don't erase a 17 point deficit if their offense doesn't take care of business on their side either.

It's not an all or nothing situation.  It can be that both their defense AND offense won that game.

Never said that defense only won that game.  Defense kept them in long enough to win.  Care to explain how only giving up 7 points in the second half to the best O in CFB isn't relevant to the outcome?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas