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Author Topic: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room  (Read 8678 times)

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Mike Irwin

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2018, 10:09:35 pm »

Getting chewed out by Mike Irwin on Hogville was on my bucket list.  Now I can mark that one off.  Wait a minute.  I think you got me when I said I could make 1 out of 25 shots in a college basketball game after a horrible night of shooting for the hogs.  Yep.  I still think I could luck in 1 out of 25. 

If memory serves me, and it usually does, I believe I heard you mention on the radio more than once that the reason we got beat by Toledo was because Pittman couldn't figure out how to handle their stunts on the defensive line. 

At the time you said it, and you may have even said it here, it struck me as a little bit silly that an experienced offensive line coach couldn't figure out how to block a stunting defensive line from a team that seemed at least at that time to be inferior to us in terms of talent level and status.  In retrospect they were probably superior to us in many ways although we didn't want to admit it at the time.  After hearing this I do remember posting a wide variety of things about Pittman's knowledge about stunts.  I believe that was when I was posting as OTR.  OTR historians can probably dig up some of those doozies.

I hope Alabama doesn't stunt (Not that they need to with a defensive line that looks like extras from a a prison movie working out with heavy barbells in the yard) or Georgia will not have a chance.
It wasn't until after Pittman left following the 2015 season that I learned he had been extremely unhappy that year. It wasn't that Chaney had left for Pitt. It was the public swipe Bielema took at Chaney which Pittman felt was bush league. Did it affect it work? Early in the season I think it did. But he and the O-line did bounce back. That group ended up being the best Bielema had in his five seasons at Arkansas.

At Georgia both Chaney and Pittman have thrived under Kirby Smart. You can't argue with results. Those two played a key role in getting the Bulldogs to the national championship game.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2018, 10:37:59 pm »

It wasn't until after Pittman left following the 2015 season that I learned he had been extremely unhappy that year. It wasn't that Chaney had left for Pitt. It was the public swipe Bielema took at Chaney which Pittman felt was bush league. Did it affect it work? Early in the season I think it did. But he and the O-line did bounce back. That group ended up being the best Bielema had in his five seasons at Arkansas.

At Georgia both Chaney and Pittman have thrived under Kirby Smart. You can't argue with results. Those two played a key role in getting the Bulldogs to the national championship game.

The Pittman/Chaney combo proved that they could run the ball.  Our passing attack was just so feeble that we couldn't stop teams from putting 10 in the box.  We could blame a lot of things on that, but that's the fact, regardless of the reasons for it.   

I think we're going to see something similar in the NC game.  Bama will take away the run, play press coverage, and force Fromm to beat them.  I don't see it happening. 

In a nutshell....I think UGA runs what Chaney wanted to do at the UA.  The difference is...much more talent at UGA, and it's enough to beat MOST teams plying that style.  I don't think it will work against Bama, but then again...not much has worked against Bama, unless you have a dynamic playmaker at QB that can offset some of what Saban wants to do. 

At UGA...it's probably enough to win all but 2 games.  At the UA, it was enough to win 7 or 8.  That's my opinion.   
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jkstock04

Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2018, 11:08:29 pm »

Most of you get it. A few of you are going sit there acting like you know something when you've never developed a QB, never called a play in a game, never even coached.

Jim Chaney is the quarterbacks coach and play caller for one of the top two teams in the country. His quarterback is a true freshman, an incredible accomplishment. And yet the rest of us are suppposed to believe you guys that the man doesn't know what he's doing.  ???



 

So in other words it was a simple coincidence qb play improved tenfold with the transition of Chaney to Enos. That’s a neat theory.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2018, 11:18:48 pm »

So in other words it was a simple coincidence qb play improved tenfold with the transition of Chaney to Enos. That’s a neat theory.

Ten fold?  I didn't see that.  I saw our WR play improve dramatically, and I saw BA get more time to throw the ball.  Not sure how much of that was Enos, BB meddling less, or just players getting a year of practice in. 

Chaney was a big PA pass guy.  Still is.  But with no WR's that could get open, we were one dimensional, and everyone stacked the box on us.  Not a recipe for success with his program. 

Enos wanted to employ more screen passes, and faster developing pass plays.  It worked great for the personnel we had.  Really...what it boils down to is, BB never got an O-line that could play at the level needed for his style of play, despite putting them on the program front.  He knows that...admits that, and never overcame it.  On defense...where to start?   :D 
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SooieGeneris

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #104 on: January 05, 2018, 12:30:48 am »

Surely no one even on here believes that Sam Pittman would be the O line coach at a place like UGA, a resume that included a stint of Butch Davis' staff at UNC, and coaching the O lines at two other SEC schools, if he wet his pants at an opponents DL stunts..

Look it up. The Hogs had over 500 yards offense in that game. It's not easy to have that kind of output and only score 10 offensive points. Remember, Toledo took an intentional safety with a minute or so left. The problems were mainly in the red zone and BA had not yet overcome late game problems yet.

That game, as bad as it seemed at the time for the offense, was lost on: SPECIAL TEAMS! Toledo scored their first TD with a short field after blocking a punt. Then, Jared Cornelius ran a punt back for a TD for us, only to have a player hold the PUNTER 10 yards behind the ball as if the guy was going to catch JRed from behind at the 10 or 15 yard line.. one of the biggest bonehead plays imaginable!

Take out those two plays and it's Hogs 17 Toledo 9. At least, but probably more. Not a convincing win mind you, but no one would be talking about line stunts in that game or play calling as it would be just another meh win over two years ago.

That Toledo team was much better than we knew. Yes, Kareem Hunt was suspended and didn't play, but there were a few others in the NFL now like DT Trayvon Hester of the Raiders who did and do you recall who the coach was?

When Iowa State went into Norman and beat OU this season, I couldn't help but think back to what an OU fan told me after that Toledo game. The Hogs were a 21 point favorite and took that team lightly. I told the Sooner fan that Toledo was a good team, better than some in the Big 12 or the bottom of the SEC and that Matt Campbell would soon be showing up at a bigger school.

He laughed and said I was nuts. I made sure and saved a cut out of the Top 25 for him when Toledo appeared in it later that season and won 10 games. He told me OU would never lose to a team as that big a favorite and that coach would be stuck there for years.

I wish I could have seen him as Matt Campbell's Iowa State team beat the heavy favorite OU squad with a 3rd string QB back in October.

As for Chaney, it seemed to me he would get bored and run an off the wall play just to shake things up at times like when we ran a double reverse and fumbled at T Tech in '14. We had been getting 8-10 yards a pop running between the tackles and were about to put the game out of reach. Like me, Brock Huard was not impressed with the call on the telecast.

The biggest problem I had with Chaney was when I read that he didn't work on fundamentals with the QBs like footwork, etc. Even at the NFL level, QBs need to still be reminded of stuff like that. QB camps and the Manning Academy aren't enough for some guys, they have to constantly be working on that.

I didn't hate the guy or celebrate when he left, but had I known it was going to mean the loss of Pittman, I would have been upset. Play calling is the most complained about thing this side of the weather and politicians, but I can put up with a few head scratching calls as I have yet to see a coach gain yards or score on every play.

Both Holtz and Petrino would call plays at times just feeling out the defense to see how they defended it, then hit them with a double move or something different out of the same formation, often resulting in big plays. Nutt wasn't smart enough to do that and I have a feeling BB didn't allow Chaney or Enos enough freedom to do it much.
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PORKULATOR

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #105 on: January 05, 2018, 07:18:21 am »

Some of you ladies get your little feelings hurt easily.
ikr
Bunch of pansies with bunched up panties on here.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #106 on: January 05, 2018, 07:58:20 am »

So in other words it was a simple coincidence qb play improved tenfold with the transition of Chaney to Enos. That’s a neat theory.

A total exaggeration. Common here.

Brandon Allen did improve from his junior to senior year just like he improved every other year. But what really helped was the offensive line play that season. Early on, before that line began to come together, BA did struggle. He also benefited from an improved wide receiver corps and a running game that was solid.

If Enos was such an amazing developer of QB's what happened to Austin Allen who regressed for two straight seasons? Anybody with a brain and eyeballs knows what happened. He played behind a horrible offensive line. No way Enos or any other QB coach could overcome that.

You're placing too much in the hands of a position coach. They can help develop a player and some are better than others but there are a lot of factors that go into player development/regression that are beyond the control of a position coach the biggest being the teammates surrounding that player. Chaney, Enos or whoever can't wave a magic wand and make O-linemen that can't pass block or run block suddenly get better.
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BallHog1

Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2018, 08:00:44 am »

I defended Chaney till I was blue in the face on this board. Very few wanted to hear anything about it. As far as Bielema being a "sorry coach" I don't think he is. He brought the wrong philosophy to this school but it took time for that to become obvious. I don't jump to conclusions. I felt like he needed time to make his system work.

At South Carolina it finally hit me. We're five years in and his program is going downhill. Maybe some of you knew it a lot sooner but the nature of my job requires me to be cautious.
As usual you are right Mike. I also defended Chaney but not with a lot of passion as I wanted to believe in BB. Thank you for setting Skandar straight.
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Skandar Jackson

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #108 on: January 05, 2018, 08:29:56 am »


998
Monday Morning Quarterback / Re: Question for Mike Irwin?
« on: September 15, 2015, 10:21:22 pm »
Pittman explained the blocking problems pretty clearly tonight. Teams have decided to counter the size of Arkansas offensive line with sideways movement. The linemen have been following them and blocking them as they move. This has resulted in no forward push.

In practice they worked all afternoon on a correction. Tretola: "Not just letting guys go left and right and go where they want to. We want to put 'em where we want 'em to be at."

Pittman explained it further: "There have been a lot of safety blitzes and corner blitzes. If we catch those blitzes and we catch 'em vertically then there's creases but what's been happening, we've just been going with it. We've just been riding them across. We've got to get vertical and when we do we'll cut holes in that thing."   

    Reply
    Quote

From NWA homepage

Pittman admits he doesn't know if the Red Raiders will employ the same strategy of slants and stunts that Arkansas offensive linemen faced in their first two games of the season but he said they will not be caught flat footed again.

"We are a running football team," Pittman said firmly. "That's what we do. That's who we are and that's what we're going to get back to."


I thought I might find these nugget in the archives.

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hawgon

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #109 on: January 05, 2018, 09:06:51 am »

Chaney has and had his faults.  They were evident at his stints at Tennessee, Arkansas and last year at Georgia.  I didn’t pay enough attention to his time at Pittmto have an opinion about him there.  But that said, the dynamic between he and Bert was bad and made him look worse than he was.

Bielema is terrible with assistants.  The higher the profile of the assistant, the worse he is.  Go back and look at Wisconsin as well as us.  To me it seems to be an ego thing and if an assistant gets too much credit or even publicity, things turn sour.  If the assistant gets the credit Bert seems to want to let everyone know that he deserves some credit too.  If an assistant gets the blame, Bert doesn’t defend so much as passive aggressively reinforce that opinion to shift the blame completely to the assistant.  And then when the guy leaves, he really does jump on with both feet.
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Skandar Jackson

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2018, 09:40:50 am »

What I wish now is that some member of the media would speak up and address the issue of jelly sandwiches at halftime and why that secret was buried almost as deeply among the media (we all knew it here) as CBB's affinity for hanging out at Ben's apartment. 

CBB was a quirky and flawed coach.  The fact that our media never seemed to question him too strongly until his month speaks to the fact that in Arkansas and a lot of places the Head Coach is on a pedestal and only after that coach is gone does anyone in the media come out with much in the way of criticism.  Most folks on here saw by year three that it seemed unlikely that he would ever win big here but most of us held out hope he could get us to 8 or 9 wins at some point and if he had he might have been the coach here forever. 

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Redhogs

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2018, 10:05:51 am »

The Pittman/Chaney combo proved that they could run the ball.  Our passing attack was just so feeble that we couldn't stop teams from putting 10 in the box.  We could blame a lot of things on that, but that's the fact, regardless of the reasons for it.   

I think we're going to see something similar in the NC game.  Bama will take away the run, play press coverage, and force Fromm to beat them.  I don't see it happening. 

In a nutshell....I think UGA runs what Chaney wanted to do at the UA.  The difference is...much more talent at UGA, and it's enough to beat MOST teams plying that style.  I don't think it will work against Bama, but then again...not much has worked against Bama, unless you have a dynamic playmaker at QB that can offset some of what Saban wants to do. 

At UGA...it's probably enough to win all but 2 games.  At the UA, it was enough to win 7 or 8.  That's my opinion.   
Good correct analysis...agreed.
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racinghog

Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2018, 10:06:51 am »

Chaney has and had his faults.  They were evident at his stints at Tennessee, Arkansas and last year at Georgia.  I didn’t pay enough attention to his time at Pittmto have an opinion about him there.  But that said, the dynamic between he and Bert was bad and made him look worse than he was.

Bielema is terrible with assistants.  The higher the profile of the assistant, the worse he is.  Go back and look at Wisconsin as well as us.  To me it seems to be an ego thing and if an assistant gets too much credit or even publicity, things turn sour.  If the assistant gets the credit Bert seems to want to let everyone know that he deserves some credit too.  If an assistant gets the blame, Bert doesn’t defend so much as passive aggressively reinforce that opinion to shift the blame completely to the assistant.  And then when the guy leaves, he really does jump on with both feet.
Bielema makes an inordinate number of I-me statements. This has always bothered me. I would rather hear us-we statements.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2018, 12:27:17 pm »

Bielema makes an inordinate number of I-me statements. This has always bothered me. I would rather hear us-we statements.

The first rule of being in management...................use "we" when credit is to be given. Use "I" when blame needs to be accepted.
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Skandar Jackson

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2018, 02:42:13 pm »

The first rule of being in management...................use "we" when credit is to be given. Use "I" when blame needs to be accepted.

I'd rather use you when placing blame.  Good thing I'm not in management.
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HoggyCat

Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2018, 03:24:34 pm »

Nobody has mentioned that Bielema

Because no one cares.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2018, 04:38:51 pm »

It has been difficult for Arkansas media to criticize sitting head coaches at Arkansas as long as I've followed the Razorbacks, which is about 50 years.  The culture was established long ago by Frank Broyles, who was a bit of a dictator and pretty thin-skinned himself.  Orville Henry was a brilliant sports journalist, but he was also played a bit of the Joseph Goebbels role for Broyles.  KATV and the Arkansas Gazette were a propaganda machine for the Razorbacks for decades.  That's the culture that Mike Irwin and Wally Hall built their careers in.  It's not a culture unique to Arkansas and the Razorbacks, and it can be useful for promoting a cohesive fanbase.  In short, it is what it is.

It's difficult now to even define media.  It's usually not hard to separate the pros from the wannabes and amateurs, but to some extent, anyone with a smartphone can now publish any comment, opinion, rumor, outlandish story, etc., via "social media".  There are any number of on-line sports websites, blogs, etc., competing for clicks and hoping to create an audience.  Want to be a "journalist" in 2017?  Go outside, find a rock, put your hands on it, look up the heavens, and say "I'm a journalist", and start a blog. 

At a time when "newspapers" are disappearing, it's more important than ever to have professional journalists the public knows it can trust.  Those aren't always going to be the ones with "the scoop", nor are they going to post outrageous nonsense as clickbait.

I don't always agree with Mike Irwin or Wally Hall, but they are professional journalists with credibility.  Don't expect them and other media members with credentials to question every coaching decision.  Occassionally they will, but they have to face these guys in press conferences year after year. 

In retrospect, it's easier for a professional journalist to look back at a guy like Bret Bielema and acknowledge some of the things we discussed here for years, most completely anonymously.  The wacky calls at critical points in the game.  The stubborness in the red zone.  The crazy personnel decisions.  The headscratching refusal to offer some of the best in-state players.  The tendency to throw assistants and players under the bus.  We can say those things on Hogville, and just because we're not professional journalists doesn't mean we're wrong.  But we aren't restricted by the same set of standards or by the well-established Razorbacks media culture, either.
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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2018, 05:03:00 pm »

I like Chaney's play calling well enough. My problem with Chaney was lack of second half production. This was not simply my perception. Chaney's offensive production declined alarmingly in the second half -- using statistical significance tests, even. (Yes, I was so annoyed with our second half collapses Chaney's last year, I ran ANOVAs and stuff.)

Chaney had showed the same overall pattern at Tennessee. Why? I have no idea, but the data spoke and I was ready to move on from Chaney because would have been useless at that point to want to move on from Bielema. You don't win games in the first half.

Second half performance seemed somewhat better under Enos, but in general the poor second half performances continued, and my obvious  conclusion was, "Well, it wasn't Chaney after all, was it?"
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rtr

Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2018, 06:35:32 pm »

It has been difficult for Arkansas media to criticize sitting head coaches at Arkansas as long as I've followed the Razorbacks, which is about 50 years.  The culture was established long ago by Frank Broyles, who was a bit of a dictator and pretty thin-skinned himself.  Orville Henry was a brilliant sports journalist, but he was also played a bit of the Joseph Goebbels role for Broyles.  KATV and the Arkansas Gazette were a propaganda machine for the Razorbacks for decades.  That's the culture that Mike Irwin and Wally Hall built their careers in.  It's not a culture unique to Arkansas and the Razorbacks, and it can be useful for promoting a cohesive fanbase.  In short, it is what it is.

It's difficult now to even define media.  It's usually not hard to separate the pros from the wannabes and amateurs, but to some extent, anyone with a smartphone can now publish any comment, opinion, rumor, outlandish story, etc., via "social media".  There are any number of on-line sports websites, blogs, etc., competing for clicks and hoping to create an audience.  Want to be a "journalist" in 2017?  Go outside, find a rock, put your hands on it, look up the heavens, and say "I'm a journalist", and start a blog. 

At a time when "newspapers" are disappearing, it's more important than ever to have professional journalists the public knows it can trust.  Those aren't always going to be the ones with "the scoop", nor are they going to post outrageous nonsense as clickbait.

I don't always agree with Mike Irwin or Wally Hall, but they are professional journalists with credibility.  Don't expect them and other media members with credentials to question every coaching decision.  Occassionally they will, but they have to face these guys in press conferences year after year. 

In retrospect, it's easier for a professional journalist to look back at a guy like Bret Bielema and acknowledge some of the things we discussed here for years, most completely anonymously.  The wacky calls at critical points in the game.  The stubborness in the red zone.  The crazy personnel decisions.  The headscratching refusal to offer some of the best in-state players.  The tendency to throw assistants and players under the bus.  We can say those things on Hogville, and just because we're not professional journalists doesn't mean we're wrong.  But we aren't restricted by the same set of standards or by the well-established Razorbacks media culture, either.
Gosh, we have been through a 5 really 6 year nightmare.
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#hammerdown

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2018, 08:17:59 pm »

I like Chaney's play calling well enough. My problem with Chaney was lack of second half production. This was not simply my perception. Chaney's offensive production declined alarmingly in the second half -- using statistical significance tests, even. (Yes, I was so annoyed with our second half collapses Chaney's last year, I ran ANOVAs and stuff.)

Chaney had showed the same overall pattern at Tennessee. Why? I have no idea, but the data spoke and I was ready to move on from Chaney because would have been useless at that point to want to move on from Bielema. You don't win games in the first half.

Second half performance seemed somewhat better under Enos, but in general the poor second half performances continued, and my obvious  conclusion was, "Well, it wasn't Chaney after all, was it?"

Maybe the poor second half performances had more to do with the coach that stayed than the ones he changed.  I like Enos.  But I genuinely believe if BB would have left Chaney and Pittman alone we would have had a really good offense by now.  However, I also agree that BB was too involved in the defense.  With different DC's we still basically looked the same over the long haul.

Beliema's shot at Chaney was the end of Pittman IMO.  He stayed until he could find a better gig but his recruiting fell off drastically.  Beliema's best recruiter was the Oline coach but we under recruited number for the line at a horrendous level. 

Beliema and Beliema alone is responsible for the downward spiral of the team.  I have no doubt he thought he knew what it would take to build it.  He simply was wrong.  His handling of assistant coaches led to that downfall.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #120 on: January 07, 2018, 04:05:25 pm »

I don't know what happened here but Chaney has done an exceptional job with the true freshman QB at Georgia.

You mean Chaney failed to prepare a top national QB out of highschool and brought in another.  I'm not sure one is owed too much credit here for getting Fromm to where they are today.  Both Fromm and Eason could have gone to any college they wanted, top what, 50 players? and were top Pro style passing QB's coming out of High school. 
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onebadrubi

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #121 on: January 07, 2018, 04:10:27 pm »

Most of you get it. A few of you are going sit there acting like you know something when you've never developed a QB, never called a play in a game, never even coached.

Jim Chaney is the quarterbacks coach and play caller for one of the top two teams in the country. His quarterback is a true freshman, an incredible accomplishment. And yet the rest of us are suppposed to believe you guys that the man doesn't know what he's doing.  ???

So the guy is 1 out of 2 for making top nationally ranked QB's worth anything?  I thought recruiting ranks mattered?

The truth is somewhere between what Mike says and what the others say.  Chaney IMO isn't that great, the guy can get in his own way at times.  He is doing what he is doing with 2 or possibly 3 NFL rb's, one of the top 3 best O lines in college football, and one of the top 5 defense in college football.  Perspective can be a rude B sometimes.  IF it weren't for those RB's and O line busting big plays during the Okl game, Chaney would be watching the National championship game from his TV.  That being said, he is in the national championship game. Lets see what he does against Saban.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Nobody mentioned Bielema on Film Room
« Reply #122 on: January 07, 2018, 04:13:25 pm »

what I did not like about the whole bret era, was the constant lying to cover up crab that was going on. like it takes 3 years to get the offense in. well, chaney is winning with a true freshman qb, in his second year as oc at Georgia.

it was just one cover up lie after another up there.

Excuses, some use them to cover up their inabilities.  They also get use to using them.
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