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Author Topic: What’s happened to loyalty?  (Read 7020 times)

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rtr

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2017, 10:38:34 pm »

Well you see you know very little of the history. I’m 71 and white. I grew up in SEA and I still live there. I saw first hand the people from SEA that fled with white flight. I know the Black Dr. that encouraged Danny Bradley to go to Oklahoma for the reason I stated. We visited often. Before he died he became more tolerant and encouraged kids to go to the UofA but only to play for Nolan.
I knew Willie Roaf’s father and mother, The father was a liberal gentleman. The mother was very pro Black.  The UofA never gave him a sniff. I know John Tate and his dad John is playing for Memphis and is as good as most of our Defensive linemen. Arkansas didn’t give him a sniff. You are wrong.
I know the history and you are wrong. Very few people from SEA moved to Benton Co. during my lifetime.
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From Tusk Till Dawn

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2017, 10:44:02 pm »

Wrong. Ever heard of Cortez Kennedy? Phillip Dokes? Keith Jackson? Those names go back a ways. As long as I've covered this program a few in state kids have left most seasons. Sometimes very good players. If you actually crunch the numbers historically Arkansas does a better job of keeping instate players than most schools SEC or whatever. Three players in a 4 win season with a coaching change is not unusual.
But isnt it more than that?  Those 3 players are 3 out of the top 5 that the state has to offer.
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TeedupHigh

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2017, 11:22:55 pm »

how can we bitch about a kid leaving and then praise a kid who comes here from out of state? I am guilty but I find myself asking why?
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root_hawg

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2017, 11:37:45 pm »

Let's see ND over Ark, better education, degree considered much better, more influential alumni probably, chance to play on TV every week, better program in terms of history...
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a0ashle

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2017, 12:19:13 am »

Loyalty? Y’all want college football to run like a business, except you want the 18 year old kids to put in the real work, risk their bodies, do it for “loyalty” or “state pride” and then you want them to be pushed out if they don’t perform, in order to make room for the next 18 year old you want loyalty from. Nah, if it’s a business, then they need to do what’s right for their business, loyalty is earned.
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factchecker

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2017, 12:27:21 am »

Loyalty? Y’all want college football to run like a business, except you want the 18 year old kids to put in the real work, risk their bodies, do it for “loyalty” or “state pride” and then you want them to be pushed out if they don’t perform, in order to make room for the next 18 year old you want loyalty from. Nah, if it’s a business, then they need to do what’s right for their business, loyalty is earned.

Great point.

It's funny hearing people who never attended any university, let alone The University of Arkansas, tell young adults what they should do with their lives.

Not to mention, a good portion of these state loyalists move away from Arkansas due to many different reasons.
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jvanhorn

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2017, 03:25:19 am »

Seems like I remember Keith didn't want to play TE in Ken Hatfield's type offense or something like that.

I think that is true.  He realized he was not going to be a good fit in that offense and OU pursued him hard right from the get go.  Hatfield not so much, especially in the beginning.  I don't think it was so much he wouldn't have liked to come to  Arkansas, he was just smart enough to see that he was the wrong player in the wrong offense for his abilities, but he has, obviously, always considered Arkansas home and has done a lot of good here.   I don't hold any hard feelings about what happened.  Just one of the things
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jvanhorn

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2017, 03:28:26 am »

Loyalty?  LOL.  Look around you.  Maybe you don't understand the country you live in anymore.
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Wild Bill Hog

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2017, 03:41:04 am »

The same mentality that caused many HV posters to hope for Razorback losses this year. A sad commentary on the modern society.

I doubt many if any Hog fans wanted Hog losses, but most all expected them.  With Bert how could you expect anything else?
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Peter Porker

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2017, 04:40:21 am »

There are several reasons.
None of their family or friends attended Uof A
Other schools contacted players first and Uof A basically ignored them.
Money
Belief that NWA was racist ( this belief started in the 60’s when white flighters from South and Eastern Arkansas moved to NWA.

I work with some AA that still believe NWA is racist. Heck we have posters in here that think Arkansas won't start a minority QB because of it.
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Peter Porker

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2017, 04:42:00 am »

Complete nonsense.

If that helps you sleep at night.
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factchecker

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2017, 05:23:17 am »

https://twitter.com/NWAHutch/status/946142523944206339

Quote
If you dig into the numbers, Arkansas does a better job of keeping in-state talent home than virtually all other P5 schools. (Also, Bielema, Petrino and Nutt did it at virtually the same level.) Here's what I wrote in February, @nwarick:
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hogcards

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2017, 06:18:25 am »

Wrong. Ever heard of Cortez Kennedy? Phillip Dokes? Keith Jackson? Those names go back a ways. As long as I've covered this program a few in state kids have left most seasons. Sometimes very good players. If you actually crunch the numbers historically Arkansas does a better job of keeping instate players than most schools SEC or whatever. Three players in a 4 win season with a coaching change is not unusual.

I'll play. What are these crunched numbers that indicate the university of Arkansas does a better job of keeping in state commits more so than other SEC schools?
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Soooie21

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2017, 06:23:32 am »

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lamont7906

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2017, 06:31:58 am »

No one wants loyalty, everyone wants the best players. If we were getting 4 and 5 stars people would care less if instate players stayed home but since we're not people speak as if loyalty is important. If they leave so be it, I'm not complaining about out of state kids being loyal.
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PonderinHog

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2017, 07:24:51 am »

For a small fee I'd be willing to provide some vague hints as to what happened to loyalty.
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2017, 07:31:25 am »

Arkansas isn’t the absolute marquee team in the state anymore, regardless of how much everyone wants to believe they are.

Of course they are, who are you suggesting otherwise?
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2017, 07:34:09 am »

Let's see ND over Ark, better education, degree considered much better, more influential alumni probably, chance to play on TV every week, better program in terms of history...

We play on TV every week......
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nwahogfan1

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2017, 07:35:14 am »

Why are so many in state kids flipping?  I’m old, but when I grew up instate kids never considered anyone but the Hogs!

Kids are watching more ESPN and following teams that win on a national scale and so find new teams to cheer for.  Hogs football has been so bad or average so long that many Arkansas HS kids have jumped off ship and have found other teams to cheer for.   
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IronHog

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2017, 07:43:58 am »

I work with some AA that still believe NWA is racist. Heck we have posters in here that think Arkansas won't start a minority QB because of it.


White flight capitol of middle America is what it is
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2017, 07:50:02 am »


White flight capitol of middle America is what it is

Washington D.C., or the Temple of Jupiter??

Cap·i·tol
[ˈkapədl]
DEFINITION
the seat of the US Congress in Washington, DC.
US
a building housing a legislative assembly:
"50,000 people marched on New Jersey's state capitol"

the temple of Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill in ancient Rome.
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JethroB.

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2017, 07:51:12 am »

And he still played TE in the Wishbone!LOL

It just paid better to do that over across the border.
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Mike Irwin

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2017, 07:56:53 am »

I'll play. What are these crunched numbers that indicate the university of Arkansas does a better job of keeping in state commits more so than other SEC schools?
Andrew Hutchinson of Hawgs 247 did some research on this subject a few days ago. He determined that the number of top instate athletes leaving Arkansas hasn't varied much year to year, coach to coach. He also determined that Arkansas does a better job of keeping its top instate recruits than most schools in other states. I don't have a link to what he found. I just remember reading it. I'm sure you could find it if you're interested.

This wasn't a surprise to me. I'm not a statistics guy but as far back as I remember, going back to the mid 70's, Arkansas has been losing a few kids to out of state schools. Fans have bitched about it and they've complained about the alleged disloyalty issue. I'd read about it in the letters-to-the-editor section that used to be popular in newspapers. These days it's all over social media.

There is nothing new about this.
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GuvHog

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2017, 07:59:28 am »

Don't think Jackson flipped, he was a Sooner from the beginning.

This is true.

Cedric Houston didn't flip either. He was never committed to Arkansas. As I recall, His High School head coach pushed him to Tennessee and was run out of Clarendon because of it.
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Johnny Bobo

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2017, 08:02:20 am »

I can't believe Bear Bryant ditched us for Bama in 1932  >:(
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Hugo Bezdek

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2017, 08:05:08 am »

This is true.

Cedric Houston didn't flip either. He was never committed to Arkansas. As I recall, His High School head coach pushed him to Tennessee and was run out of Clarendon because of it.

Houston was an early commit to Arkansas as a Sophomore or Junior as I recall.
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Hugo Bezdek

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2017, 08:07:47 am »

I can't believe Bear Bryant ditched us for Bama in 1932  >:(

And Pine Bluff's Don Hutson the year before. http://www.packers.com/history/hall-of-famers/hutson-don.html
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GuvHog

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2017, 08:07:48 am »

Houston was an early commit to Arkansas as a Sophomore or Junior as I recall.

Understood. I just remember how his High School head coach pushed him to Tennessee and was run out of Clarendon for it.
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Johnny Bobo

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2017, 08:09:24 am »

Well you see you know very little of the history. I’m 71 and white. I grew up in SEA and I still live there. I saw first hand the people from SEA that fled with white flight. I know the Black Dr. that encouraged Danny Bradley to go to Oklahoma for the reason I stated. We visited often. Before he died he became more tolerant and encouraged kids to go to the UofA but only to play for Nolan.
I knew Willie Roaf’s father and mother, The father was a liberal gentleman. The mother was very pro Black.  The UofA never gave him a sniff. I know John Tate and his dad John is playing for Memphis and is as good as most of our Defensive linemen. Arkansas didn’t give him a sniff. You are wrong.


so NWA is racist because a doctor lied to Danny Bradley?

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Hugo Bezdek

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2017, 08:12:10 am »

Andrew Hutchinson of Hawgs 247 did some research on this subject a few days ago. He determined that the number of top instate athletes leaving Arkansas hasn't varied much year to year, coach to coach. He also determined that Arkansas does a better job of keeping its top instate recruits than most schools in other states. I don't have a link to what he found. I just remember reading it. I'm sure you could find it if you're interested.

This wasn't a surprise to me. I'm not a statistics guy but as far back as I remember, going back to the mid 70's, Arkansas has been losing a few kids to out of state schools. Fans have bitched about it and they've complained about the alleged disloyalty issue. I'd read about it in the letters-to-the-editor section that used to be popular in newspapers. These days it's all over social media.

There is nothing new about this.

Exactly. The Wall around Arkansas is a myth. There's never been one. You want to convince the best talent in state to stay, but the idea that Arkansas kids didn't used to leave is flat wrong.
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hogcards

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2017, 08:13:04 am »

Andrew Hutchinson of Hawgs 247 did some research on this subject a few days ago. He determined that the number of top instate athletes leaving Arkansas hasn't varied much year to year, coach to coach. He also determined that Arkansas does a better job of keeping its top instate recruits than most schools in other states. I don't have a link to what he found. I just remember reading it. I'm sure you could find it if you're interested.

This wasn't a surprise to me. I'm not a statistics guy but as far back as I remember, going back to the mid 70's, Arkansas has been losing a few kids to out of state schools. Fans have bitched about it and they've complained about the alleged disloyalty issue. I'd read about it in the letters-to-the-editor section that used to be popular in newspapers. These days it's all over social media.

There is nothing new about this.

Cool, I'll check it out.

All I know is our recruiting is absolutely horrible right now.  It's the worst I've personally ever seen it.  Rivals has us at 86th right now nationally.  Something has to give and we cannot afford to lose in state players... at all-ever.

It's also a major reason we cannot afford to hire someone that doesn't like to recruit as our DC such as Chavis.
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HF#1

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2017, 08:16:55 am »

Once Morris is able to establish some relationships in the state, we will see in state kids stay home. With kids like Bohannon, Jones, Flanigan, he had all of 9 days. It is virtually impossible to come in and recruit a kid in 9 days. I think you will see next years class be a big one in state and most if not all will come to Arkansas.
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2017, 08:17:02 am »

Cool, I'll check it out.

All I know is our recruiting is absolutely horrible right now.  It's the worst I've personally ever seen it.  Rivals has us at 86th right now nationally.  Something has to give and we cannot afford to lose in state players... at all-ever.

It's also a major reason we cannot afford to hire someone that doesn't like to recruit as our DC such as Chavis.

You do know we are penalized for every recruit under 20 that we don't have? And that we will only sign 15-16, so we won't be rated high, anyway?
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hogcards

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2017, 08:20:49 am »

You do know we are penalized for every recruit under 20 that we don't have? And that we will only sign 15-16, so we won't be rated high, anyway?

Yes, and even if we had a full class, we'd still be a bottom dweller in the SEC and probably not much higher nationally. 
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Pudgepork

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2017, 08:23:12 am »

Leslie ONEAL is the defensive end who left Arkansas and made a name for himself at OK St and NFL
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Al Boarland

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2017, 08:23:36 am »

If players were as loyal to their home state as the OP wants then we wouldn't even have a ranked recruiting class.
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The Kig

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2017, 08:23:46 am »

So he went to play in Switzer’s wishbone.

He went to win championships...even then, the Hogs were decent.  Now the Hogs are in the bottom 3 in our own conference.  Kids want to play for winners. 

This "loyalty" talk is crap.  Can't believe people are surprised that 17-18 year olds don't want to get embarrassed on a weekly basis.  The best players on last year's team will be remembered for one thing... being part of one of the worst Razorback teams EVER.  Kids would rather ride the bench on a championship team than be a star on a historically bad team.  What is hard to figure out about that?
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2017, 08:24:16 am »

I work with some AA that still believe NWA is racist. Heck we have posters in here that think Arkansas won't start a minority QB because of it.

I didn't know Quinn Grovey was white.......................
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GuvHog

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2017, 08:26:13 am »

Well you see you know very little of the history. I’m 71 and white. I grew up in SEA and I still live there. I saw first hand the people from SEA that fled with white flight. I know the Black Dr. that encouraged Danny Bradley to go to Oklahoma for the reason I stated. We visited often. Before he died he became more tolerant and encouraged kids to go to the UofA but only to play for Nolan.
I knew Willie Roaf’s father and mother, The father was a liberal gentleman. The mother was very pro Black.  The UofA never gave him a sniff. I know John Tate and his dad John is playing for Memphis and is as good as most of our Defensive linemen. Arkansas didn’t give him a sniff. You are wrong.

Wille Roaf was an Arkansas miss. He was not highly touted coming out of high School and signed with Louisiana Tech where he really developed into the great player he became. Arkansas not recruiting him had nothing to do with race.

John Tate Sr., young John Tate's dad, was a great basketball player for Watson Chapel High School in the early 80's and was heavily recruited by Eddie Sutton at Arkansas where he would have played Power Forward with Andrew Lang playing Center. Together, they would have dominated the lane in the SWC but unfortunately Tate Sr. was pushed to Arkansas State by his head basketball coach which was a huge mistake. Sr. may have influenced his son not to consider Arkansas.
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2017, 08:27:52 am »

Yes, and even if we had a full class, we'd still be a bottom dweller in the SEC and probably not much higher nationally. 
Wrong, but obviously math isn't a strong suit of yours, so I'll forgive you.

https://twitter.com/TreyBiddy/status/943864860244312065

"Arkansas' recruiting class is ranked 81st nationally b/c they're getting charged with 10 zeros (a zero for every non-committed player under 20). If they had 10 more commits mirroring the 10 they have, they'd be tied for 20th nationally right now. Just explaining the formula #wps"
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2017, 08:30:24 am »


White flight capitol of middle America is what it is

Economic growth is what it is. Your troll game is rather weak with that post.
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2017, 08:31:25 am »

I didn't know Quinn Grovey was white.......................

....or Greg Thomas.
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The Kig

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2017, 08:32:24 am »

We play on TV every week......

Incorrect.  We are on TV every week, but haven't been playing.  This is another reason kids leave... The product on the field isn't some gussied up story in the paper about a hard fought, heartbreaking loss by the home team.  It's there in HD for all to see and they don't like what they see.

That may well change with Morris, but it remains to be seen.
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hogsanity

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2017, 08:33:17 am »

Why are so many in state kids flipping?  I’m old, but when I grew up instate kids never considered anyone but the Hogs!

This is simply not true.

There is this romanticized idea of kids al over Arkansas growing up, wanting to be Hog football players, coming to campus, and winning the big game for the Hogs. The reality is that many in state talents have left for other schools, bigger programs, more prestigious venues.

While some continue to worry about in state kids leaving, do they ever stop and think what the Hog program would look like if kids did not leave other states to come here?
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2017, 08:33:23 am »

Cool, I'll check it out.

All I know is our recruiting is absolutely horrible right now.  It's the worst I've personally ever seen it.  Rivals has us at 86th right now nationally.  Something has to give and we cannot afford to lose in state players... at all-ever.

It's also a major reason we cannot afford to hire someone that doesn't like to recruit as our DC such as Chavis.

IF that is true of Arkansas then it should be true of all states. Thank goodness it isn't.
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Pork Twain

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2017, 08:34:26 am »

Maybe kids aren't the same as they were back in the day.  Or maybe you remember things differently than they really were.  Lots of kids leave every state and go to different schools.  Always have and always will, especially with a coaching change.  Arkansas is not special in this regard.
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Hogarusa

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2017, 08:40:02 am »

I enjoy these multiple threads of old people not understanding how young kids could even have a thought of leaving state to attend school in 2018.
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buldozer

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2017, 08:48:10 am »

We just got rid of a coach and AD that didn't value or recruit in-state recruits all that much. They thought getting rid of the LR games would be a major step forward because they thought the center of the state was the UA. We all know the UA is barely in AR and that LR is the center of our state. Central, South and East was an afterthought to these folks. I hope the house has been cleaned and now we can go forward with a coach that values in-state kids more than those outside AR and I hope he recruits all corners of the state. If he does this, then the in-state kids will come and they will have pride to be a razorback once again.
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hogsanity

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Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2017, 08:58:51 am »

We just got rid of a coach and AD that didn't value or recruit in-state recruits all that much. They thought getting rid of the LR games would be a major step forward because they thought the center of the state was the UA. We all know the UA is barely in AR and that LR is the center of our state. Central, South and East was an afterthought to these folks. I hope the house has been cleaned and now we can go forward with a coach that values in-state kids more than those outside AR and I hope he recruits all corners of the state. If he does this, then the in-state kids will come and they will have pride to be a razorback once again.

1938 called, they would really like you to leave
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ricepig

Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2017, 09:11:43 am »

Incorrect.  We are on TV every week, but haven't been playing.  This is another reason kids leave... The product on the field isn't some gussied up story in the paper about a hard fought, heartbreaking loss by the home team.  It's there in HD for all to see and they don't like what they see.

That may well change with Morris, but it remains to be seen.

No, we play, we win some, we lose some, but we are playing on TV. I guess the players from other states didn't watch us on TV, they just came anyway?
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