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Author Topic: Uhhhh...Macon tweet  (Read 28680 times)

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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #450 on: May 04, 2017, 09:16:23 pm »

I could have sworn Derozen went something like 2/15 the other night.  Shooters have bad games.  The NBA is big into analytics now and usage rate is a biggie and for the minutes Macon played, his and Dusty's was pretty high.  One more year isn't going to get him drafted unless he goes off in a way we haven't seen in a long time at UA.  Staying isn't going to help him one bit.  It will help the Hogs but not his ability to play at the next level including overseas.

So much wrong with this and your next two post.  As a recent business graduate and knowing what I made straight out and what some law friends make and will make I can tell you you're way off base there.

However, I'll just say this: Derozan isn't a shooter.  He's got a good mid range game but hardly even attempts any threes.
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rzrbackramsfan

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #451 on: May 04, 2017, 09:17:39 pm »

No need to retaliate.

Is mizzou gonna have a top 5 recruiting class or not? They don't look like a threat as we speak.
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azhog10

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #452 on: May 05, 2017, 12:02:52 am »

So tell me, what type of degree is going to pay a kid straight out of college, let's say, 50k?  My son has a pre med degree, and currently in med school, he's not working because I want him to focus solely on med school, but he wouldn't make 50k if he got a job somewhere tomorrow.  Let's say a law degree, 50k right out of college?  Not unless they are the #1 grad coming out and is sought by a prominent law firm.  Let's say accounting; not going to make 50k coming out of college.  Business?  Don't make me laugh.  Sports Medicine? No... Criminal Justice?  Most definitely not.  Get my point?  If the young man THINK, and I emphasis THINK, he can go to Europe and make 50k tax free, I'd be careful with stating "that's not smart."  What if he did come back and blow out a knee?  Would that be smart?  I don't think these young men go into this decision as blindly as we think.  No way he would NOT come back if he didn't have some indication from the BB community he can make a team in Europe because he and all of us know he won't sniff the NBA.  Just hasn't shown that skill set yet.  But I don't blame the young man for striking while the iron is hot.  He can get a degree anywhere, anytime, that's not going to yield what he could make overseas playing BB.   I'd take the shot if I had the opportunity.  If he doesn't make it, not the end of the world or his life.  He can get the 9-12 hours he has left and take the paltry salary college grads are receiving these days, that is, if he can find work in his grad field.  Not guaranteed, check out Fox Business and then tell me the sunny story of coming back, risking injury, and getting that degree.
Im an engineer. Started at $60k with a $10k sign on bonus almost seven years ago. Today they are hiring engineers at $75k with the same sign on bonus. He won't make $60k tax free overseas. Guards are a dime a dozen, and he will be lucky to clear $30k in a season his first year.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #453 on: May 05, 2017, 06:12:51 am »

I posted a response to "dumb" decisions one but I have to do it again.  These young men have more insight to the BB community than any of us.  How do we know he doesn't have a network of informed people who may have told him there's a possibility he will make a team in Europe paying let's say 40 or 50k tax free?  Why would he come back?  Risk injury and the income and dream is dead...  oh yeah, that coveted degree he can get no matter where he is in the world online of which will NOT produce 40 or 50k fresh out of school..  what degree is gonna produce that kind of immediate income for a new grad?  I don't think he think he has a chance of playing in the NBA immediately but I do think he think he can go overseas and make more money while improving his skill set than a new college grad.  And there sir, I'd say it's a very smart decision.  Look, he's not going to improve his draft stock or his earning potential by staying at UA another year.  He can improve his earning potential by spending that year working through the Euro leagues.  If his choice is get paid now more than my degree will yield while working to advance, I don't think that's dumb at all.  I think it's economically smart.  What's the worse than can happen?  Don't make a Euro team, finish his degree and end up like millions of new grads working jobs outside their field of study making a paltry salary working 8-12 hours a day focused on learning and getting promotions to make a better salary?  He's not getting drafted, he knows it, he can play in a Euro league now and make tax free money while improving his skills and move up in the circuit NOW.  How is that a dumb decision?
Man you are making a lot of assumptions here, the first and most significant, that these kids have any real insight to the NBA/European league just because they play college ball.  European leagues do not just take anyone that applies and the pay and consistency is not as grand as you make it out to be.  I have no real ties to their leagues, but I do have ties to Google and I know how to use it.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #454 on: May 05, 2017, 06:22:34 am »

Education!  Facts are facts!  That is a profession on the rise again.  I didn't include RNs, Radiologist, mechanics, HVAC...  opportunities are there but the point is, if he can make 50k on the Euro circuit doing what he loves, seeing lands he could only dream of seeing, why not!  If he don't like it or fail, he can come back and coach in NW AR somewhere.  I don't think he will be in the NBA in the foreseeable future but I do think he will make a low tier Euro team and work his way up to better opportunities.  So it is not as cut and dried a dumb decision as some think.

Have you lived overseas for a long period of time?  I would assume with your screen name you had, unless you were NG.  I have and while this $50k number you throw out there is great, the cost of living and the fact that you are so far from home and everything that you love and the language barrier are significant.  Are we talking $50k US and then converting that to live off of the local market?  All of these little things add up.
 
Gas prices overseas: 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/

US ~$2-3 a gallon and in Europe $6+ a gallon

Exchange rate:
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

$1.00 US = $0.91 Euro
Just to start off, 50k US equals ~45k Euro

Utilities:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=18851

What you see might not be what you get when it comes to pay:
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2011/10/19/playing-in-europe/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/03/17/why-these-pro-players-are-willing-to-play-basketball-in-iraq-for-20k-a-month/?utm_term=.08ab0f4e3bcf

They might not pay US taxes, but they still might get hit with huge European taxes:
http://www.hesslawgroup.com/services/overseas/general-discussion/
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?page=euroamfactfiction
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 06:33:28 am by Pork Twain »
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jjdlc

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #455 on: May 05, 2017, 07:25:07 am »

Have you lived overseas for a long period of time?  I would assume with your screen name you had, unless you were NG.  I have and while this $50k number you throw out there is great, the cost of living and the fact that you are so far from home and everything that you love and the language barrier are significant.  Are we talking $50k US and then converting that to live off of the local market?  All of these little things add up.
 
Gas prices overseas: 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/

US ~$2-3 a gallon and in Europe $6+ a gallon

Exchange rate:
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

$1.00 US = $0.91 Euro
Just to start off, 50k US equals ~45k Euro

Utilities:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=18851

What you see might not be what you get when it comes to pay:
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2011/10/19/playing-in-europe/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/03/17/why-these-pro-players-are-willing-to-play-basketball-in-iraq-for-20k-a-month/?utm_term=.08ab0f4e3bcf

They might not pay US taxes, but they still might get hit with huge European taxes:
http://www.hesslawgroup.com/services/overseas/general-discussion/
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?page=euroamfactfiction

This, the stuff that the pro overseas crowd willfully ignores.  ColonelHog seems determined to undersell starting salaries in the US as well.  Sure, there are a lot of jobs with lower starting salaries, but there are a lot with really decent salaries as well.  There is a lot of opportunity in the state of Arkansas, and a kid that played for the Hogs would have an inside track at many of those opportunities.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #456 on: May 05, 2017, 07:33:52 am »

This, the stuff that the pro overseas crowd willfully ignores.  ColonelHog seems determined to undersell starting salaries in the US as well.  Sure, there are a lot of jobs with lower starting salaries, but there are a lot with really decent salaries as well.  There is a lot of opportunity in the state of Arkansas, and a kid that played for the Hogs would have an inside track at many of those opportunities.
Having lived overseas for 8+ years, I can tell you that it is not as rosy as is being described here and the cost of everything over there makes living in the US seem like we are all rich
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mizzouman

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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #458 on: May 05, 2017, 07:47:48 am »

So tell me, what type of degree is going to pay a kid straight out of college, let's say, 50k?  My son has a pre med degree, and currently in med school, he's not working because I want him to focus solely on med school, but he wouldn't make 50k if he got a job somewhere tomorrow.  Let's say a law degree, 50k right out of college?  Not unless they are the #1 grad coming out and is sought by a prominent law firm.  Let's say accounting; not going to make 50k coming out of college.  Business?  Don't make me laugh.  Sports Medicine? No... Criminal Justice?  Most definitely not.  Get my point?  If the young man THINK, and I emphasis THINK, he can go to Europe and make 50k tax free, I'd be careful with stating "that's not smart."  What if he did come back and blow out a knee?  Would that be smart?  I don't think these young men go into this decision as blindly as we think.  No way he would NOT come back if he didn't have some indication from the BB community he can make a team in Europe because he and all of us know he won't sniff the NBA.  Just hasn't shown that skill set yet.  But I don't blame the young man for striking while the iron is hot.  He can get a degree anywhere, anytime, that's not going to yield what he could make overseas playing BB.   I'd take the shot if I had the opportunity.  If he doesn't make it, not the end of the world or his life.  He can get the 9-12 hours he has left and take the paltry salary college grads are receiving these days, that is, if he can find work in his grad field.  Not guaranteed, check out Fox Business and then tell me the sunny story of coming back, risking injury, and getting that degree.
Damn good post.

Plus, we don't know their situation.  I keep saying that.  Also, Euro players make a lot more than we think and what's been posted here.  Mid tier players get about $100-$120k per year.  If you are a rookie, may be $70k per year.  That's some good money without a degree.  Not only that, what's not reported in their income is that many, just about all, get free rent and are giving cars plus a per diem on top of the salary.  So, they are doing quite well.

Now, for these two individuals, who knows?  In general, coming back to school would be a wise choice.  But, if they go, I for one would not say it's a terrible choice since I don't know their situation.
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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #459 on: May 05, 2017, 07:53:19 am »

He'd be making a big mistake if he left early. Nothing wrong with believing in yourself as an entrepreneur, etc., but with the Nba or elite European leagues, they have to believe in him. The game tape doesn't lie. It is what it is. You are what the film says you are.
Son has a business degree in finance, making that magical $50K a year here in Indianapolis. Up for a $7,500 raise when he hits his 1 year anniversary in June.
College grads in the company I work are starting at $50k.  That seems to be the magic mark.

But, these two could make up to 25% more just in salary, plus rent, plus cars, etc.  Total compensation, over $100k easy their first year.  Plus, can get their degrees.

It's not a black and white decision.  It's individual and what these kids need.

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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #460 on: May 05, 2017, 07:55:17 am »

Have you lived overseas for a long period of time?  I would assume with your screen name you had, unless you were NG.  I have and while this $50k number you throw out there is great, the cost of living and the fact that you are so far from home and everything that you love and the language barrier are significant.  Are we talking $50k US and then converting that to live off of the local market?  All of these little things add up.
 
Gas prices overseas: 
https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/

US ~$2-3 a gallon and in Europe $6+ a gallon

Exchange rate:
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/

$1.00 US = $0.91 Euro
Just to start off, 50k US equals ~45k Euro

Utilities:
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=18851

What you see might not be what you get when it comes to pay:
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2011/10/19/playing-in-europe/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/03/17/why-these-pro-players-are-willing-to-play-basketball-in-iraq-for-20k-a-month/?utm_term=.08ab0f4e3bcf

They might not pay US taxes, but they still might get hit with huge European taxes:
http://www.hesslawgroup.com/services/overseas/general-discussion/
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?page=euroamfactfiction
But these players won't pay this.  The teams take very good care of them.  They won't pay rent, utilities, gas or for even a car.  All that is part of the deal. 

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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #461 on: May 05, 2017, 07:59:04 am »

Having lived overseas for 8+ years, I can tell you that it is not as rosy as is being described here and the cost of everything over there makes living in the US seem like we are all rich
I've lived in Europe as well.  It's not cheap for you or me.  But again, the expenses everyone is talking about will not be paid by the players.  The teams will take care of a lot of it.  It's not like they are going there to make $50k a year and living like you and I.  It's more like they are making $75k per year with NO expenses.  The only expense is what they want to buy and some food.  Rent, utilities, some food, cars, gas, transportation, health care, etc., etc., costs them nothing.

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jry04

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #462 on: May 05, 2017, 08:06:19 am »

I've lived in Europe as well.  It's not cheap for you or me.  But again, the expenses everyone is talking about will not be paid by the players.  The teams will take care of a lot of it.  It's not like they are going there to make $50k a year and living like you and I.  It's more like they are making $75k per year with NO expenses.  The only expense is what they want to buy and some food.  Rent, utilities, some food, cars, gas, transportation, health care, etc., etc., costs them nothing.


Exactly. You hear 50k and think that isn't much. Take out virtually all your expenses and you are able to save quite a bit of money for the few years you play over there. Like I said in a previous thread, I know a guy who came back with a couple hundred thousand saved up off a similar salary because just about everything was paid for. He played in Poland, and was not a very good college player. He played on one of our worse teams over here, and barely touched the floor. He came back and got his masters after retiring, but had quite the head start in life thanks to his few years overseas with little expenses and no debt out of college.

Americans make more playing overseas. Most leagues set a limit on the amount of Americans one team can have, and the first year American players get more than the first year European players.
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Knot2brite

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #463 on: May 05, 2017, 08:20:18 am »

Just to throw some devils advocate out here ...I have been teaching and coaching for 18 years and I barely making over $50 K.....not everyone gets to start at bentonville....I have worked at big districts and small ones ( like I work at now) ....sometimes you have to do what you have to do in life...I think Mr. Macon has to make a decision about HIS life that fits HIS situation. Having said all of that...as a educator, I hope that he returns and works toward finishing his degree because in the end they can never take that from you.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #464 on: May 05, 2017, 08:22:52 am »

This is completely wrong.

In what way and what supporting evidence do you have to debunk this?
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #465 on: May 05, 2017, 08:30:24 am »

College grads in the company I work are starting at $50k.  That seems to be the magic mark.

But, these two could make up to 25% more just in salary, plus rent, plus cars, etc.  Total compensation, over $100k easy their first year.  Plus, can get their degrees.

It's not a black and white decision.  It's individual and what these kids need.



You're just wrong.  All the way around.
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #466 on: May 05, 2017, 08:31:54 am »

Just to throw some devils advocate out here ...I have been teaching and coaching for 18 years and I barely making over $50 K.....not everyone gets to start at bentonville....I have worked at big districts and small ones ( like I work at now) ....sometimes you have to do what you have to do in life...I think Mr. Macon has to make a decision about HIS life that fits HIS situation. Having said all of that...as a educator, I hope that he returns and works toward finishing his degree because in the end they can never take that from you.
They have programs that allow you to finish your education. I know the NFL, NBA, and MLB have it so I wouldn't be surprised if Euro leagues have something similar
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hogsanity

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #467 on: May 05, 2017, 08:37:04 am »

Wonder how many undergrads at the Uof A will drop out after this semester ends so they can go to work? I bet it is more than just Macon/Barford ( assuming they both leave which is unlikely ) yet these guys are the only ones making a "dumb" decision if they do so.

If a 20-22 yr old can leave school and earn 50K or more doing anything legal, why not do it? And do not give me any stuff about pride, caring about teammates, having the " full Razorback experience " how much a degree is worth ( cause many degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on anymore ), or all the other bogus reasoning some of you are suing to try to justify the things being said about Macon.

The bottom line is that those of you who are so adamant that he is about to make a mistake want him back for selfish reasons, to win games so you can derive some pride from the basketball team. If he were a regular student, or a sub playing 4 mins a game, you would not care one bit if he stayed or left.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #468 on: May 05, 2017, 08:38:38 am »

But these players won't pay this.  The teams take very good care of them.  They won't pay rent, utilities, gas or for even a car.  All that is part of the deal. 



Not for guys like Macon and Barford, straight out of college, without any NBA interest.  They will not get "taken care of" like you are suggesting and they aren't going to make $100k+ in total compensation.  They would likely end up in some lower Euro league or some other country outside of Europe, where paychecks are not always guaranteed and the MVP of the league might get a vacuum.
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hogsanity

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #469 on: May 05, 2017, 08:46:22 am »

They would likely end up in some lower Euro league or some other country outside of Europe, where paychecks are not always guaranteed and the MVP of the league might get a vacuum.


And where they can't help the Hogs win games, do not forget that part.
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husker71

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #470 on: May 05, 2017, 08:47:18 am »

your window to make money on your physical skills is very limited.  You can always (if you want to) go back and get your degree.  I just had a friend go back and get his at 66 or so.   The guy was a natural salesman and made lots of money BUT when he retired he decided to go back and resume his college work and in less than 2 years finished his up. 
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #471 on: May 05, 2017, 08:47:36 am »

Wonder how many undergrads at the Uof A will drop out after this semester ends so they can go to work? I bet it is more than just Macon/Barford ( assuming they both leave which is unlikely ) yet these guys are the only ones making a "dumb" decision if they do so.

Who said they are the only ones who might make a dumb decision?  Many of us have said smart people make dumb decisions from time-to-time, especially when they begin to get visions of grandeur, such as making $100k+, tax-free, with all expenses paid (apartment, car, food, etc.), in a very stable, beautiful country in Europe, etc.  They need to know it will likely be a less desirable situation than some will paint for them (mizzouman, hogsanity, ColonelSanders).
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #472 on: May 05, 2017, 08:48:41 am »

And where they can't help the Hogs win games, do not forget that part.

Zero to do with this.

You are such a pot stirrer.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #473 on: May 05, 2017, 08:50:00 am »

your window to make money on your physical skills is very limited.  You can always (if you want to) go back and get your degree.  I just had a friend go back and get his at 66 or so.   The guy was a natural salesman and made lots of money BUT when he retired he decided to go back and resume his college work and in less than 2 years finished his up. 

Good for him.  What you are talking about would be something a 1st round draft pick could/should say, not a guy who has no shot at getting drafted and would likely end up in a lower league overseas.
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hogsanity

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #474 on: May 05, 2017, 08:53:04 am »

Zero to do with this.

You are such a pot stirrer.

It has everything to do with this. If they could not help the hogs win games, not one of us would care of they stayed or left.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #475 on: May 05, 2017, 08:56:20 am »

Wonder how many undergrads at the Uof A will drop out after this semester ends so they can go to work? I bet it is more than just Macon/Barford ( assuming they both leave which is unlikely ) yet these guys are the only ones making a "dumb" decision if they do so.

If a 20-22 yr old can leave school and earn 50K or more doing anything legal, why not do it? And do not give me any stuff about pride, caring about teammates, having the " full Razorback experience " how much a degree is worth ( cause many degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on anymore ), or all the other bogus reasoning some of you are suing to try to justify the things being said about Macon.

The bottom line is that those of you who are so adamant that he is about to make a mistake want him back for selfish reasons, to win games so you can derive some pride from the basketball team. If he were a regular student, or a sub playing 4 mins a game, you would not care one bit if he stayed or left.
I wonder how many of those undergrads have a full ride.
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HogInThaGrove

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #476 on: May 05, 2017, 08:59:31 am »

A first year teacher makes $44,708 at Bentonville School District.  You add a couple of coaching stipends ($2,500 for assistant football and $2,500 for assistant basketball) and you will be close to that 50k mark.

If you have your masters you start off at $47,843.

http://bentonvillek12.org/edline_resource/departments/human_resources/salary/1617LicensedSalarySchedule.pdf

http://bentonvillek12.org/edline_resource/departments/human_resources/stipend/1617athleticstipends.pdf

LOL.  Bentonville is LITERALLY the highest paying school district in Arkansas.  Many of the smaller schools start somewhere around 34k.  The difference in a small district and a large district will often be almost 10k. 

But I digress. 

I think he'd be an idiot to go now.  But as always, it's HIS call.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #477 on: May 05, 2017, 08:59:52 am »

These awesome 50k/year pro ball gigs where they everything is "free" will be there for Macon after his senior season, too. Only he'll have an opportunity to via for better options than he has right now by coming back. The bar can't get much lower than "just play pro ball" because the reality is that players much worse than Macon will have the opportunity to play pro ball. It's almost impossible for a player of Macon's caliber to not have the opportunity to play somewhere. So why give up now and resign yourself to something that will EASILY (yes, EASILY) be there again next year? Do we really think Macon is going to get WORSE by coming back for his senior season? Doubtful. Go for the REAL goal. Try for the NBA with this awesome platform of the SEC. Who do you think scouts are looking at more and closer, college players or undrafted players in small overseas leagues?
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jry04

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #478 on: May 05, 2017, 09:01:43 am »

LOL.  Bentonville is LITERALLY the highest paying school district in Arkansas.  Many of the smaller schools start somewhere around 34k.  The difference in a small district and a large district will often be almost 10k. 

But I digress. 

I think he'd be an idiot to go now.  But as always, it's HIS call.
I actually believe Springdale is the highest paying, but it may have changed. A girl I dated a few years in/after college became a teacher, and started in Springdale because it was the highest paying school district in Arkansas at the time. Very possible it has changed in the last few years. I do know Bentonville, Fayetteville, Rogers, and Springdale are all pretty similar in starting salary. The Farmington, Elkins, West Fork type school districts are where you see your big drop off like you said.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #479 on: May 05, 2017, 09:17:52 am »

It has everything to do with this. If they could not help the hogs win games, not one of us would care of they stayed or left.

I'm talking about it without connection to the Hogs.  Period.  I would be saying the same thing if Macon was playing for Penn State.  The exact same thing.  It would be a dumb decision.
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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #480 on: May 05, 2017, 09:19:10 am »

Just to throw some devils advocate out here ...I have been teaching and coaching for 18 years and I barely making over $50 K.....not everyone gets to start at bentonville....I have worked at big districts and small ones ( like I work at now) ....sometimes you have to do what you have to do in life...I think Mr. Macon has to make a decision about HIS life that fits HIS situation. Having said all of that...as a educator, I hope that he returns and works toward finishing his degree because in the end they can never take that from you.
Bingo, well said.
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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #481 on: May 05, 2017, 09:20:00 am »

In what way and what supporting evidence do you have to debunk this?
From former Mizzou players, 3 in fact, that I keep in touch with that play there. 
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #482 on: May 05, 2017, 09:20:40 am »

You're just wrong.  All the way around.
You only wish. 
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #483 on: May 05, 2017, 09:20:52 am »

From former Mizzou players, 3 in fact, that I keep in touch with that play there. 

Ha.  Ok.  Wingo to Missouri!  I heard it from an inside source.

Gotta love the ol' just trust me "proof".
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #484 on: May 05, 2017, 09:24:37 am »

Not for guys like Macon and Barford, straight out of college, without any NBA interest.  They will not get "taken care of" like you are suggesting and they aren't going to make $100k+ in total compensation.  They would likely end up in some lower Euro league or some other country outside of Europe, where paychecks are not always guaranteed and the MVP of the league might get a vacuum.
What I'm saying is that these two will need sort all that out. 

In other words, if they have NO possibility of making it in the NBA and NO possibility of making a decent living in Europe and their ONLY option is the D league....then yes, come back.

But, we just don't know what they are doing behind the scenes. 

It's very possible that they are working behind the scenes to get the best Euro contract possible.  If it's $75k, plus expenses AND they can still work toward their degree, then why not?

But, if not and the D League is the only option, then yes, by all means, come back.

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #485 on: May 05, 2017, 09:25:21 am »

Ha.  Ok.  Wingo to Missouri!  I heard it from an inside source.

Gotta love the ol' just trust me "proof".
He did go to Mizzou.  Check for a Wingo on the roster.  You'll see one.   :)
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The Hogfather

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #486 on: May 05, 2017, 09:53:15 am »

He did go to Mizzou.  Check for a Wingo on the roster.  You'll see one.   :)

Not Ronnie.
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jry04

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #487 on: May 05, 2017, 09:53:55 am »

These awesome 50k/year pro ball gigs where they everything is "free" will be there for Macon after his senior season, too. Only he'll have an opportunity to via for better options than he has right now by coming back. The bar can't get much lower than "just play pro ball" because the reality is that players much worse than Macon will have the opportunity to play pro ball. It's almost impossible for a player of Macon's caliber to not have the opportunity to play somewhere. So why give up now and resign yourself to something that will EASILY (yes, EASILY) be there again next year? Do we really think Macon is going to get WORSE by coming back for his senior season? Doubtful. Go for the REAL goal. Try for the NBA with this awesome platform of the SEC. Who do you think scouts are looking at more and closer, college players or undrafted players in small overseas leagues?
According to the NCAA website, baseball and basketball athletes are allowed to hear out market value and negotiate professional league contracts without the presence of a lawyer or an agent. Only the school's compliance staff, legal guardian, and the player are allowed to be present or provide any advice. As long as he does not enter into an agreement with a professional team, he remains eligible. You just do not hear about it in basketball as much because we focus on the NBA, and they have to go through the draft so no contract negotiations with teams are going on while the player is eligible. With all that being said, he has some leverage when negotiating right now. He can say "I need this much or I am going back to school," and it may be more than what he could make after his senior year. He may be a better player, but has nowhere else to go. It is a take it or leave it situation at that point.

You see it all the time in baseball, too. A kid gets offered a $250,000 signing bonus after his junior year, goes back for his senior year to win a championship or improve as a player, then gets drafted in a similar spot and signs for $50,000-$100,000 despite being a better player because they lost all leverage. Obviously Macon's situation will be a little different because he isn't tied to one team and one league, but it still holds some truth to the negotiation power a player has now v as a senior.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 10:25:19 am by jry04 »
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mizzouman

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #488 on: May 05, 2017, 09:55:07 am »

Not Ronnie.
Ronnie who?  Never heard of him.
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #489 on: May 05, 2017, 09:56:35 am »

According to the NCAA website, baseball and basketball athletes are allowed to hear out market value and negotiate professional league contracts without the presence of a lawyer or an agent. Only the school's compliance staff, legal guardian, and the player are allowed to be present or provide any advice. As long as he does not enter into an agreement with a professional team, he remains eligible. You just do not hear about it in basketball as much because we focus on the NBA, and they have to go through the draft so no contract negotiations with teams are going on while the player is eligible. With all that being said, he has some leverage when negotiating right now. He can say "I need this much or I am going back to school," and it may be more than what he could make after his senior year. He may be a better player, but has nowhere else to go. It is a take it or leave it situation at that point.
I would agree with this. 

Bottom line, we just don't what they are doing behind the scenes. 

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zebradynasty

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #490 on: May 05, 2017, 10:08:47 am »

I think Macon should return. Not going to act like my reasons are purely for Macon's best interest either (I think some on here need to be more honest ). However, any kid dreaming of being a professional athlete has a very small window to pursue that dream. So I understand him exploring ALL options. That's the key he has options. He should explore each option as far he can and make a decision he feels is right for HIM. 
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #491 on: May 05, 2017, 10:13:00 am »

Ronnie who?  Never heard of him.

Bama, UGA and SC fans know who. Wheel Route
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #492 on: May 05, 2017, 10:18:57 am »

I think Macon should return. Not going to act like my reasons are purely for Macon's best interest either (I think some on here need to be more honest ). However, any kid dreaming of being a professional athlete has a very small window to pursue that dream. So I understand him exploring ALL options. That's the key he has options. He should explore each option as far he can and make a decision he feels is right for HIM. 

If you are speaking about me, I am being 100% honest.  I honestly would be saying the same thing if we were discussing a player for Penn State.  It would be a dumb decision, but he has the right to make it.

I have also said that I obviously want him back because he would help the Hogs.  That is a separate matter.  If he had a chance at being drafted or I thought he could go make $100k+, I would be singing a different tune.  I would still want him back, but I would completely understand him making the decision to leave.  With his prospects currently, it would be a dumb decision for his future AND it would hurt the Hogs.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #493 on: May 05, 2017, 10:33:24 am »

From former Mizzou players, 3 in fact, that I keep in touch with that play there.

Where is "there?" Because there are leagues all over the world.
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #494 on: May 05, 2017, 10:36:39 am »

Where is "there?" Because there are leagues all over the world.

He won't be able to give any verifiable specifics.  That's his M.O.  He talks to all of these people who know all of these things to prove you wrong.  Just trust him.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #495 on: May 05, 2017, 10:41:26 am »

According to the NCAA website, baseball and basketball athletes are allowed to hear out market value and negotiate professional league contracts without the presence of a lawyer or an agent. Only the school's compliance staff, legal guardian, and the player are allowed to be present or provide any advice. As long as he does not enter into an agreement with a professional team, he remains eligible. You just do not hear about it in basketball as much because we focus on the NBA, and they have to go through the draft so no contract negotiations with teams are going on while the player is eligible. With all that being said, he has some leverage when negotiating right now. He can say "I need this much or I am going back to school," and it may be more than what he could make after his senior year. He may be a better player, but has nowhere else to go. It is a take it or leave it situation at that point.

You see it all the time in baseball, too. A kid gets offered a $250,000 signing bonus after his junior year, goes back for his senior year to win a championship or improve as a player, then gets drafted in a similar spot and signs for $50,000-$100,000 despite being a better player because they lost all leverage. Obviously Macon's situation will be a little different because he isn't tied to one team and one league, but it still holds some truth to the negotiation power a player has now v as a senior.

Safe to say, this is a reach. If it were a prevalent part of the process, we'd hear about it much, much more. My guess is that we don't hear about it because it rarely happens. So, this is why I consider your comeback a reach. Bottom line is, he's not likely to find himself in a worse situation with another year of development and a feature role for Arkansas. Anything's possible, but it's not likely that he does not improve in some areas. I'd hate to see him enter the market at this floor, and that's what I think he'd be doing. If Macon was even a borderline NBA draft prospect, I'd be completely fine with his decision to go pro (I didn't have too much issue with Qualls leaving) because I know he'd likely find a good situation. At current, I believe he can do better and I want better for him. Sure, I'd love to selfishly have him back as Hog can because the Hogs would have a good season. No denying that. But I really do want Macon to have a good career playing basketball. I think he'd be leaving a lot of upside on the table and that's just unfortunate, if he does go pro now.
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zebradynasty

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #496 on: May 05, 2017, 10:56:03 am »

If you are speaking about me, I am being 100% honest.  I honestly would be saying the same thing if we were discussing a player for Penn State.  It would be a dumb decision, but he has the right to make it.

I have also said that I obviously want him back because he would help the Hogs.  That is a separate matter.  If he had a chance at being drafted or I thought he could go make $100k+, I would be singing a different tune.  I would still want him back, but I would completely understand him making the decision to leave.  With his prospects currently, it would be a dumb decision for his future AND it would hurt the Hogs.

I believe he has more options than you think. I also believe that everything he's done so far was done with a lot of thought and input from people who know the business and know his situation. I truly believe he would not forego his senior year for a 50K/year offer. Doesn't seem like a kid that's going to do it his way and others be darned.   
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jry04

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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #497 on: May 05, 2017, 11:18:15 am »

Safe to say, this is a reach. If it were a prevalent part of the process, we'd hear about it much, much more. My guess is that we don't hear about it because it rarely happens. So, this is why I consider your comeback a reach. Bottom line is, he's not likely to find himself in a worse situation with another year of development and a feature role for Arkansas. Anything's possible, but it's not likely that he does not improve in some areas. I'd hate to see him enter the market at this floor, and that's what I think he'd be doing. If Macon was even a borderline NBA draft prospect, I'd be completely fine with his decision to go pro (I didn't have too much issue with Qualls leaving) because I know he'd likely find a good situation. At current, I believe he can do better and I want better for him. Sure, I'd love to selfishly have him back as Hog can because the Hogs would have a good season. No denying that. But I really do want Macon to have a good career playing basketball. I think he'd be leaving a lot of upside on the table and that's just unfortunate, if he does go pro now.
Not sure what you are saying is a reach, but neither are a reach. It happens all the time, especially in baseball. How many foreign contract negotiations do you follow? Hearing about it has nothing to do with how often it happens and everything to do with how much people care about hearing about it. Nobody follows an average junior's contract negotiations with a foreign team, and why would they? The former Hog I know personally did it. He had to negotiate with foreign teams two years in a row. Ended up going after his senior season. I know others athletes who have been through the process while working in the athletic department, but cannot say I know them personally, but I do know how they handled the process. Literally every baseball player drafted does it, too. They set a number that they want and say give me a contract guaranteeing it and I will sign, or I am going back to school. You do not have that option when you are a senior.

I couldn't begin to tell you what Macon has a chance of making or how big of a commodity he would be overseas, but as far as the process he is going through I know because of the people I know who have been through it. If not for them, I would be just like you not knowing and just assuming on how it works. He isn't jumping into this thing blindly. He isn't just stalling because he is on the fence. He is hearing every option and negotiating to see what his best offers are. The fact that he hasn't hired an agent to help him negotiate in these discussions tells me he is at least concerned about remaining eligible at the U of A.
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #498 on: May 05, 2017, 11:33:10 am »

Not sure what you are saying is a reach, but neither are a reach. It happens all the time, especially in baseball. How many foreign contract negotiations do you follow? Hearing about it has nothing to do with how often it happens and everything to do with how much people care about hearing about it. Nobody follows an average junior's contract negotiations with a foreign team, and why would they? The former Hog I know personally did it. He had to negotiate with foreign teams two years in a row. Ended up going after his senior season. I know others athletes who have been through the process while working in the athletic department, but cannot say I know them personally, but I do know how they handled the process. Literally every baseball player drafted does it, too. They set a number that they want and say give me a contract guaranteeing it and I will sign, or I am going back to school. You do not have that option when you are a senior.

I couldn't begin to tell you what Macon has a chance of making or how big of a commodity he would be overseas, but as far as the process he is going through I know because of the people I know who have been through it. If not for them, I would be just like you not knowing and just assuming on how it works. He isn't jumping into this thing blindly. He isn't just stalling because he is on the fence. He is hearing every option and negotiating to see what his best offers are. The fact that he hasn't hired an agent to help him negotiate in these discussions tells me he is at least concerned about remaining eligible at the U of A.

Without an agent, it would seem to be that it would be pretty tough to gauge your value overseas. Who is doing the legwork on that and checking interest from all of these leagues overseas? Who, if not an agent, has those kind of contacts? My guess is that his options for negotiation are limited for this reason. I'm not really concerned with what goes on in baseball because so much about contracts and drafting is different in baseball and basketball. It's not apples to apples in many regards. I've never made anywhere near the claim that Macon is jumping into this blindly (at least I hope it hasn't come across that way). I'm saying he's selling himself short if he does go pro based on my assumption of what his value likely is right now.
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Re: Uhhhh...Macon tweet
« Reply #499 on: May 05, 2017, 11:43:27 am »

Without an agent, it would seem to be that it would be pretty tough to gauge your value overseas. Who is doing the legwork on that and checking interest from all of these leagues overseas? Who, if not an agent, has those kind of contacts? My guess is that his options for negotiation are limited for this reason. I'm not really concerned with what goes on in baseball because so much about contracts and drafting is different in baseball and basketball. It's not apples to apples in many regards. I've never made anywhere near the claim that Macon is jumping into this blindly (at least I hope it hasn't come across that way). I'm saying he's selling himself short if he does go pro based on my assumption of what his value likely is right now.
University of Arkansas athletic employees are allowed to provide advice and be present during negotiations, just no lawyers or anyone acting as an agent. Mike's connections get his foot in the door with teams. Also, just by declaring your name is out there so any interested teams will contact the U of A to get in contact with Macon.  It isn't just him against everyone. I don't know what to tell you other than any player who leaves for overseas without discussing and negotiating with teams are complete idiots. Some probably do, but most don't. If he gets an offer he feels is reasonable and plans on leaving, then he has an agent/lawyer look over the contract and negotiate more on his behalf, thus forfeiting his eligibility. He has a good understanding of what he can and can't get well before he reaches that point, though. If he never declares and never puts his name out there he will not know what he can or can't do, though.
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