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Author Topic: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.  (Read 2860 times)

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12247


Ever notice how we all get riled up about this tourney.  Susposed to pick the baseball National Champion for this year, right.  Man, we would love to win this thing and be the NC, top dog, the team.  Anyone really believe that AZ is the best team in college baseball.  I don't.  LSU, SC, and FLA would still be in my top 5.  AZ would come in about 5 or 6.  I think we would be somewhere around 8th to 10th.  Its a fun tournament and I guess about the best that can be done to find a Champion.  I am sooooo glad we went as far as we did with pitching and defense and a bit of timely hitting and according to the rules, we are no worse than 4th in the entire D1 baseball community, beating out FLA and LSU but I don't agree we are better than either.  One thing I took from this tourney is just how bad most HCs are when it comes to in game decisions.  Tanner seems to be about the best at making the correct decisions throughout the game.  He made change after change and most were the right thing to do at the time.  When we beat SC it was done with a pitching gem and pretty good D.  We lost when our pitching wasn't stellar.  AZ took SC to task because SC was beat down pretty bad by us mostly.  SC had 5 stressful games while AZ had 3 and lots of rest. 
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sir-pigs-a-lot

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 11:10:38 pm »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.
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beebefootballfan

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 11:14:03 pm »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.
^^^^^ This. 
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Danny J

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 11:18:57 pm »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.
I agree...they dominated.

We were the only team at the CWS that could have challenged zona and we would have needed bax and stanek on full rest.
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sir-pigs-a-lot

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 11:21:28 pm »

I don't care about the circumstances regarding south Carolina. ESPN, bad umps, whatever....the truth is they came out of the losers bracket, won 2 games in 1 day, and then came back the next day and beat the ace of our staff by being just a little bit better on the bump than we were. To me, they are clearly number 2 and a yip of the cap is in order. Take away the ESPN slobbed and the inconsistent ump, I think most would agree with this and if we came back from the losers  bracket and did exactly to them what they did to us, we would demand that respect. After the first two, its really gets subjective.
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Razor6

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 11:59:56 pm »

Hate to be honest here, but for me.... It feels better lose a close one with USCE with the umps being at blame... than getting spanked by Arizona twice in the championship game.

Made for a great season
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jry04

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 12:24:12 am »

Hate to be honest here, but for me.... It feels better lose a close one with USCE with the umps being at blame... than getting spanked by Arizona twice in the championship game.

Made for a great season
You don't know that we would have been spanked, though. I think we probably would have lost, but SC pitched a mid-week starter in game 1 that has at beast their 4th best starter. We would have been pitching Stanek, who was been red hot. Our bullpen is also much deeper than SC's. I do not see there being any way they would have scored 5 runs on us in game 1 like they did against Koumas from SC. Today it was a close game until AZ scored the 3 runs in the 9th. They used Webb so much this week It hink fatigue just set in for some of the SC pitchers our of the pen. AZ is definitely the best team, though.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 11:24:07 am by rsvl_hogfan4 »
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Razor6

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 12:41:53 am »

You don't know that we would have been spanked, though. I think we probably would have lost, but SC pitched a mid-week starter in game 1 that was at beast their 4th best starter. We would have been pitching Stanek, who was been red hot. Our bullpen is also much deeper than SC's. I do not see there being any way they would have scored 5 runs on us in game 1 like they did against Koumas from SC. Today it was a close game until AZ scored the 3 runs in the 9th. They used Webb so much this week It hink fatigue just set in for some of the SC pitchers our of the pen. AZ is definitely the best team, though.

Good point... unfortunately for our state... (with those UMPS) I/we will just have to accept what was...
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Hog_One_Stop

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 06:15:27 am »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.

Ever notice how we all get riled up about this tourney.  Susposed to pick the baseball National Champion for this year, right.  Man, we would love to win this thing and be the NC, top dog, the team.  Anyone really believe that AZ is the best team in college baseball.  I don't.  LSU, SC, and FLA would still be in my top 5.  AZ would come in about 5 or 6.  I think we would be somewhere around 8th to 10th.  Its a fun tournament and I guess about the best that can be done to find a Champion.  I am sooooo glad we went as far as we did with pitching and defense and a bit of timely hitting and according to the rules, we are no worse than 4th in the entire D1 baseball community, beating out FLA and LSU but I don't agree we are better than either.  One thing I took from this tourney is just how bad most HCs are when it comes to in game decisions.  Tanner seems to be about the best at making the correct decisions throughout the game.  He made change after change and most were the right thing to do at the time.  When we beat SC it was done with a pitching gem and pretty good D.  We lost when our pitching wasn't stellar.  AZ took SC to task because SC was beat down pretty bad by us mostly.  SC had 5 stressful games while AZ had 3 and lots of rest. 

Hate to tell you but Az won the National Championship last night,  not SC, LSU, FLA.  LSU couldn't get out of Super Regional
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DEVIL DOG HOG

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 06:56:38 am »

Teams 1 - 8 played in Omaha! They got it done on the field. Teams 9 & 10 are anybodies guess.
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hoglady

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 07:26:05 am »

Arizona was as clear cut a Champion as I've seen in a while. They rolled through everyone in there path. In my mind they are without a doubt the best team. An extremely fun team to watch - great starting pitching, good defense and alot of pop in their bats.
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HoginMemphis

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 07:36:55 am »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.
No kidding. Like watching the major league playoffs then saying the WS winner is not the best team. Ridiculous.
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hoglady

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 08:43:37 am »

I bet Lopez (Arizona coach) is pretty happy to win it all in the year Florida went into the tourney at #1. Nice redemption for him after getting canned from there a decade ago.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 08:50:48 am »

Dude...Arizona is easily the best team in college baseball. Nobody challenged them the entire tourney.

Really?  This is the thing with sports - you just have to be one of the top 10-15 teams and then anyone can get hot and win.  Did you see them all year?  If so, you wouldn't be sayign they were easily the best.  Were they easily the best this last ten days?  Yes.

Arizona hosted a weak regional - and they have an interesting home field advantage playing in Arizona - as Arkansas would know.  Then UNC got beat and they hosted an overmatched St. Johns team.  They had the easiest road, by far, to get to Omaha.

Then in Omaha, their ace beat a true freshman who didn't have a great showing in Omaha twice.  Then they beat the USCe mid week starter in the first game with their number 2 starter.  Last night was an impressive win.. but they didn't have the most difficult road. 

Who you play, when you play them, what umps you get, etc... they all matter. 
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duck slayer

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 09:39:09 am »

I'm no baseball expert, but the schedule of the championship game seems a little unfair to me.  Shouldn't the championship match up allow enough time after the semis for each team to have full rest so they can both start their normal rotations?  Arizona definitely had an advantage with their pitching rotation which calls into question the validity of the results in my opinion.  Thoughts? 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 10:03:01 am by duck slayer »
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McmerleHOG

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 11:02:34 am »

Really?  This is the thing with sports - you just have to be one of the top 10-15 teams and then anyone can get hot and win.  Did you see them all year?  If so, you wouldn't be sayign they were easily the best.  Were they easily the best this last ten days?  Yes.

Arizona hosted a weak regional - and they have an interesting home field advantage playing in Arizona - as Arkansas would know.  Then UNC got beat and they hosted an overmatched St. Johns team.  They had the easiest road, by far, to get to Omaha.

Then in Omaha, their ace beat a true freshman who didn't have a great showing in Omaha twice.  Then they beat the USCe mid week starter in the first game with their number 2 starter.  Last night was an impressive win.. but they didn't have the most difficult road. 

Who you play, when you play them, what umps you get, etc... they all matter.

It's about who's the best team in the nation at the end of the year, not the middle.  Yes, their path to Omaha wasn't the toughest, but did you see what they did to all those teams (all quality teams)?  It's not like they barely won or won by a decent margin.  They absolutely slaughtered some really good teams.  Here's their scores, all wins:

15-3
16-4
16-3
7-6
7-4
4-3
4-0
10-3

and then beating USCe in 2.

It's not just the fact that they didn't lose a game in the postseason, its the manner in which they won most of their games.  It's hard to just get hot and win a bunch of games in the postseason, because at that point every team is good. 

Arizona is the champs and no way I'd say any other team deserves it more than them.
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jacobp

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 11:03:24 am »

I'm no baseball expert, but the schedule of the championship game seems a little unfair to me.  Shouldn't the championship match up allow enough time after the semis for each team to have full rest so they can both start their normal rotations?  Arizona definitely had an advantage with their pitching rotation which calls into question the validity of the results in my opinion.  Thoughts? 
You get rewarded for winning games.  Besides, Arizona threw their #2 and 3 guys; their ace didn't pitch in the final series.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 11:05:11 am by jacobp »
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 01:06:52 pm »

It's about who's the best team in the nation at the end of the year, not the middle.  Yes, their path to Omaha wasn't the toughest, but did you see what they did to all those teams (all quality teams)?  It's not like they barely won or won by a decent margin.  They absolutely slaughtered some really good teams.  Here's their scores, all wins:

15-3
16-4
16-3
7-6
7-4
4-3
4-0
10-3

and then beating USCe in 2.

It's not just the fact that they didn't lose a game in the postseason, its the manner in which they won most of their games.  It's hard to just get hot and win a bunch of games in the postseason, because at that point every team is good. 

Arizona is the champs and no way I'd say any other team deserves it more than them.


When St. Johns is the best team you play before the college world series, then we differ on what we qualify as quality teams.  Maybe thats too harsh... just realize St. Johns is the best they played and think about that.

Let me be clear, Arizona played great and deserve to be the CWS champions.  I mean to diminish nothing. 

If i had to bet my house on a three game series between Arizona and Florida tomorrow, you pick the park, i'll take Florida.
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Killean

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 01:27:08 pm »

Florida got put out by Kent State.


I think that sums up the argument there.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 01:51:26 pm »

Florida got put out by Kent State.


I think that sums up the argument there.

If you evaluate which team is better based on a sample size of one game, then I agree - that sums up the arguement. 
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12247

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 06:26:15 pm »

I agree AZ won the CWS and played against everyone who stepped in their path.  They are a very good team.  I didn't follow them until they reached the series.  Maybe they had an easy trip there but so did we when comparing many other teams.  I just do not feel they are the best team in college baseball.  Thats my opinion. 
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010HogFan

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 06:31:50 pm »

Arizona would take Florida behind the woodshed. Florida = paper tiger this year
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gguillo

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 06:47:03 pm »

Arizona is #1.  Not even close.  However, I see it like the way I see the NCAA tournament... after the tournament champion, who is really #2, #3, #4 and so on?  Same can be said about the final BCS rankings.

Pre-Regionals, Pre-Supers, Pre-Omaha...

I'd say the NCAA got it right.  I'd say FL was the top team due to schedule and conference... with FSU, Baylor, A&M, Oregon, UCLA, SC and LSU all in a toss up behind FL.

Post Omaha, You'd have to go AZ, SC, AR and FSU as the top 4... UCLA and FL next, then I'd still put teams like Stanford, LSU, OU, Baylor, NC State, UNC & Purdue, VA, Rice and Oregon... heck, I'd probably still put Kentucky in the top 10!  I think they had a really great season and got a really tough draw in the tourney.  Kinda felt they were way more deserving of a regional than Miami.

These teams are still deserving of being highly ranked and respected mainly cause all these top 16 teams went through the grind of the regular season and survived.  Wasn't a big fan of Miami this past season... Felt like they kinda got regionals based on name recognition and location, not due to their record.

I'd still put Kent State and Stony Brook around the 16-20 range just due to their regular season resume.

Heck, you could even argue Miss St., Vandy, TCU, and maybe even Ole Miss could still be top 16 teams.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 06:51:15 pm by gguillo »
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HoginMemphis

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 07:27:47 pm »

Good stuff but don't really care who is #2, et al. I want to take a #2 rather than think about what team is #2. No one remembers #2.

See y'all next April in here.
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rawn4203

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 09:02:06 pm »

Somehow, I dont feel AZ should have to apologize for beating the St Johns team that beat UNC not once but TWICE in chapel hill. They won all 10 post season games by an average of 6 runs per game, and swept the 2 time defending champs without sending their top pitcher, Heyer, to the mound in either game, holding SC to a total of 2 runs in 2 games combined.

This talk about AZ not really being #1 is laughable.
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Danny J

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2012, 09:39:08 pm »

Arizona is #1.  Not even close.  However, I see it like the way I see the NCAA tournament... after the tournament champion, who is really #2, #3, #4 and so on?  Same can be said about the final BCS rankings.

Pre-Regionals, Pre-Supers, Pre-Omaha...

I'd say the NCAA got it right.  I'd say FL was the top team due to schedule and conference... with FSU, Baylor, A&M, Oregon, UCLA, SC and LSU all in a toss up behind FL.

Post Omaha, You'd have to go AZ, SC, AR and FSU as the top 4... UCLA and FL next, then I'd still put teams like Stanford, LSU, OU, Baylor, NC State, UNC & Purdue, VA, Rice and Oregon... heck, I'd probably still put Kentucky in the top 10!  I think they had a really great season and got a really tough draw in the tourney.  Kinda felt they were way more deserving of a regional than Miami.

These teams are still deserving of being highly ranked and respected mainly cause all these top 16 teams went through the grind of the regular season and survived.  Wasn't a big fan of Miami this past season... Felt like they kinda got regionals based on name recognition and location, not due to their record.

I'd still put Kent State and Stony Brook around the 16-20 range just due to their regular season resume.

Heck, you could even argue Miss St., Vandy, TCU, and maybe even Ole Miss could still be top 16 teams.
I agree with the first part but have a different opinion of the second. In a elimination game on a neutral field, with some very questionable calls mind you, kent state beat UF. Late in the season the teams that made it to the CWS were the teams peaking at the right time. Some kept it going such as us, USCe and zona. Some fell apart at the CWS and UF and stony brook comes to mind. They(UF) looked pretty bad especially in the field. I wasn't sure I was watching the same team. I would rank all the teams in the CWS in the top 8. I would put kent state ahead of UF.

Zona
USCe
Ark
FSU
UCLA
KSU
Stony brook
UF

I put stony brook ahead of UF because they had a MUCH harder road to the CWS than did UF. They were both 0-2 so I just look at their tournament resume and it was stronger than florida's. I just throw out the regular season all together and look at it as a resume for seeding and where you are playing in the post season. All the teams qualified and the seedings and placement was based on that. Stony brook qualified the same as UF. So wipe the slate clean and look at the post season as a fresh start. Stony brook had better wins against better competition on the road.

I am not an expert as most of you know so this is obviously just my opinion.
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BroyledNutts

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2012, 10:49:31 pm »

Arizona was as clear cut a Champion as I've seen in a while. They rolled through everyone in there path. In my mind they are without a doubt the best team. An extremely fun team to watch - great starting pitching, good defense and alot of pop in their bats.


Wait a minute - I thought you couldn't have all three because of scholarship restrictions - I thought you have to pick between pitching and offense?!? I thought a starting pitcher couldn't go more than 5-6 innings? This is why we fail...

Arizona is #1, USCe is #2 - everybody else is the fat girl at the dance...just happy to be there.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 10:51:38 pm by BroyledNutts »
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sir-pigs-a-lot

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 12:32:34 am »

Excellent post. Welcome to hogville. Allow me to give your first +1



Somehow, I dont feel AZ should have to apologize for beating the St Johns team that beat UNC not once but TWICE in chapel hill. They won all 10 post season games by an average of 6 runs per game, and swept the 2 time defending champs without sending their top pitcher, Heyer, to the mound in either game, holding SC to a total of 2 runs in 2 games combined.

This talk about AZ not really being #1 is laughable.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 06:03:22 am »

Nobody (or at least me) is saying zona doesn't deserve to be number one.

Look... Were the giants the best team in football last year? They made the playoffs on a tie breaker and were .500 through the season. Co
Pared to the packers and parriots who were like 13-3 or something.

I would say the giants played great in the last four games and deserve to be super bowl champs. They won the playoffs. But if playing great in four games in a row overshadows the entire 20 games they played - then were going to disagree on how we evaluate things.   

If we ran the entire season back - nobody, until a week ago, would have said that Arizona is a top five favorite to win it all. Si no... Zona isn't far and away the best team in the country. They do far and away deserve to be number one though.

An making st johns travel across the country to play in your dry, hardened, field is not the same as beating rice at rice and Baylor two of three at Baylor. Not even close.
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razCzar

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 07:08:02 am »

Somehow, I dont feel AZ should have to apologize for beating the St Johns team that beat UNC not once but TWICE in chapel hill. They won all 10 post season games by an average of 6 runs per game, and swept the 2 time defending champs without sending their top pitcher, Heyer, to the mound in either game, holding SC to a total of 2 runs in 2 games combined.

This talk about AZ not really being #1 is laughable.

Totally agree.  I began seeing Zona coming in those late-night regional games back in early June, when they impressively rolled out 47 runs over three straight.  Hi Corbett being a cavernous park like TD Ameritrade, I suspected then they would be hard to throttle if they got to Omaha.  Like us, they had it pretty easy in the SR and made it.  From the time we both advanced, I felt we would meet in the finals.  Underdogs, both - still maybe the best of the field for postseason play.  They deserve to be #1 in the same way we would have.
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rawn4203

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 08:34:22 am »

"An making st johns travel across the country to play in your dry, hardened, field is not the same as beating rice at rice and Baylor two of three at Baylor. Not even close. "

Neither is beating (sweeping) the 2-time defending champs along with the national #2 and #3 seeds in Omaha close to losing to the 2 time champs and beating Kent State in Omaha.

And no, AZ didnt "make" St Johns do anything. UNC made them do that by losing to them not once but TWICE in chapel freaking hill.

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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 10:23:35 am »

"An making st johns travel across the country to play in your dry, hardened, field is not the same as beating rice at rice and Baylor two of three at Baylor. Not even close. "

Neither is beating (sweeping) the 2-time defending champs along with the national #2 and #3 seeds in Omaha close to losing to the 2 time champs and beating Kent State in Omaha.

And no, AZ didnt "make" St Johns do anything. UNC made them do that by losing to them not once but TWICE in chapel freaking hill.

Okay, my apologies - don't be so sensitive.  Having st. johns travel across the country..." not "making". 

Look, Arizona had an easier road than a lot of people. Arkansas had an easier road in Omaha than a lot of people.  That is part of the recipe of winning a title.  Duke had an easier road a few years ago.  Its part of it.

Beating a three seed twice and a four seed is a pretty easy set up in a regional.  St.Johns was a very weak two seed that played well the weekend before.  It doesn't get much easier than that.  (and razcar - saying Arkansas had an easy super regional at Baylor is crazy).

Then Arizona beat a freshman for FSU who didn't handle himself well.  Beat UCLA in a tough game.  And then beat a mid week starter and Roth who pitched for the third time in 9 days. 

I dont' really mean to take anything away from Arizona. They played great.  We decide to crown a champion through this tournament and they dominated it.  They are teh champions and deserve to be.  But that doesn't mean I'm goign to go around and say they were by far the best college baseball team in 2012.  Just becuase you dominated a tournament doesn't mean I ignore the first four months of the year. 

And to be fair, Arkansas had a very difficult (I think the most difficult) road to Omaha.  They had to win at Rice and they had to win 2 of 3 at #4 seed Baylor.  (you can argue Kent State but I never thought Oregon was that good).  Then Arkansas got to play Kent State in the opener (a relative weak CWS team) and then have Stanek against USCe number 2.  I would have taken those first two games of the CWS over any other teams first two games. 

Arkansas played well in the CWS and deserved to win the bracket (well, not to take anything away from USCe... I'll change and say its not proven they deserved to win but they didn't deserve to lose?) - but it was the easiest road that any team had in the CWS.  Its part of it. 
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 10:40:10 am »

Let me put a different way - UCLA won 2 of 3 AT arizona this year and outscored Arizona 25-12 including the CWS game. 

But becuase they happened to win that one game on that one night, that means Arizona is far and away the best team in the country? 
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rawn4203

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 12:44:27 pm »

Let me put a different way - UCLA won 2 of 3 AT arizona this year and outscored Arizona 25-12 including the CWS game. 

But becuase they happened to win that one game on that one night, that means Arizona is far and away the best team in the country? 
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Well...yes. A more extreme example - college hoops. In 1990 UNLV beat Dook by 30 in the ncaa championship game. They played a year later in the final 4 with virtually the same teams. This time UNLV lost by 2. No sane person would say dook would have won a best of 3 or 5 or 7 etc against UNLV.....but Dook did win when it counted the most and were therefore national champs. Winning championships is all about timing. Giants in 07 (switching to NFL now) lost at home to the unbeaten pats but beat them in the super bowl. Giants were the champs.

UCLA would surely trade their 2 out of 3 in tucson for the 1 win in Omaha. Maybe AZ prepared better for UCLA in omaha than they did in tucson. Maybe UCLA was just not playing as well. Doesnt matter. AZ just happened to be the better team when it mattered most and you cant take that away from them.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 12:56:45 pm »

Let me put a different way - UCLA won 2 of 3 AT arizona this year and outscored Arizona 25-12 including the CWS game. 

But becuase they happened to win that one game on that one night, that means Arizona is far and away the best team in the country? 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Well...yes. A more extreme example - college hoops. In 1990 UNLV beat Dook by 30 in the ncaa championship game. They played a year later in the final 4 with virtually the same teams. This time UNLV lost by 2. No sane person would say dook would have won a best of 3 or 5 or 7 etc against UNLV.....but Dook did win when it counted the most and were therefore national champs. Winning championships is all about timing. Giants in 07 (switching to NFL now) lost at home to the unbeaten pats but beat them in the super bowl. Giants were the champs.

UCLA would surely trade their 2 out of 3 in tucson for the 1 win in Omaha. Maybe AZ prepared better for UCLA in omaha than they did in tucson. Maybe UCLA was just not playing as well. Doesnt matter. AZ just happened to be the better team when it mattered most and you cant take that away from them.

Are you kidding me?  Thats my entire point.  I never took anything away from them.  Arizona dominated the tournament.  They played the best in Omaha. They deserve to be CWS champions.

Just as I wouldn't go around saying that Duke team is a better than that UNLV team (though they were closer than the year before - but no, not better), I wouldn't say Arizona is far and away the best team in college baseball or the Giants were the best team in the NFL that year.

But I don't think that takes anything away from Duke or Arizona.  They both rightfully have banners and banners fly forever. 
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rawn4203

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 02:21:47 pm »

I dont think anybody is saying AZ is the best team of all time or brings back memories of the USC teams of the 70s, the Miami and Texas teams of the 80s or the LSU teams of the 90s......Though their 2012 postseason run (10-0) is certainly very impressive. Really, does it matter if they are only a little better than SC or FSU or might not have won a best of 7 against them or Arkansas? The point is they won when it counted and are the national champs.

End of discussion.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 03:00:46 pm »

You're clearly an Arizona fan, which cool, congrats, and welcome... and if I were you nothing else would matter. 

But in a thread about ranking the top ten - I'm just making the point that I wouldn't have Florida tied for 7th or LSU/Baylor tied for 17th because of where they finished in the tournament. 

This isnt' the end all be all of who is actually the best team and I'd rather play Arizona today then Florida (which should be neither here nor there to you).  The tournament does decide who finishes the year number 1 by default but not who the best teams are per say. 

Kent State may have been tied for the 5th best team in the tournament - but they weren't the 5th best team of the year by a long shot.
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rawn4203

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Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 06:40:39 pm »

Well you are right, I am an AZ fan. Just to finish up this "best team" thing, for AZ's 1st national title in 1976, their first game in Omaha was against their instate rival ASU.  it should be noted that AZ lost the first game of the series to ASu (in a classic game) and then came through the loser's bracket (different path to the championship in '76) and faced ASu with our ace, Powers, going against their #2 guy, Don Hanna (because Bannister, ASu's ace, had lost the previous game in a 1-0 duel with Bob Welch from Eastern Michigan). We beat ASu that day, and it was the first time we had beaten them in 8 tries that year (ASu having won all six during the regular season and the seventh being the first game in Omaha). Beating Eastern Michigan in the title game, which we only had to do once, was anti-climatic. It was an awesome feeling when our team bus rolled past ASu's team bus after that game; Coach Kindall told the players not to say a word, not to even look their way, but as soon as they got clear, everyone went nuts. Just a wonderful memory of a bunch of great guys.

But the point of that is AZ finished 1-7 against ASU in 1976 but look who had the trophy and look who didnt (ASU would go on to win it all the next year, just like how they won it all the year after we won our 2nd title in 1980). Nowhere on the 1976 national troply is there an asterisk that says "but finished 1-7 vs ASU".

As for the topic, I said as soon as the pairings were announced with UF as the overall #1 seed that there was no way they were winning it all. Maybe it's just from previous years when they were highly ranked/seeded but underperformed. I thought UNC was a shoe in to make it with St Johns in their regional but as AZ found out SJU is not chopped liver. In fact you could even argue they were a tougher opponent for AZ than SC was if you simply add up the winning aggregate scores of AZ vs SJU compared to AZ vs SC, and AZ played SJU in tucson, not Omaha.

Must admit after watching what FSU did to Stanford I was a little nervous about AZ's chances against that team. But after AZ won that first game against them in extra innings, I felt better. Still, playing the UCLA team that ripped AZ 25-12 in taking 2 of 3 in tucson I was probably even more concerned. But Wade was so much better that time in Omaha. After beating the national 2 and 3 seeds, I finally started realizing this team had a chance at something special.

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HoginMemphis

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 06:52:03 pm »

Arkansas did not win the CWS. Arguing over anything else is borderline insanity. Stop.
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dotnet

Re: OK. now who is your new top 10 after thisw CWS has been settled.
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 10:19:15 pm »

Thats a cool story.  There is no love around here for ASU.  Arkansas lost two close extra inning games in a super regional there two years ago, and then had to go to their regional last year when a) everyone here thought arkansas should be hosting and b) ASU should have been on probation.

I can only imagine how pissed ASU and fans had to have been to have beaten a team 7 times and then lost the most important game of the season.  That would be the worst feeling. 

Things happen, which is what makes all tournaments so much fun.

Seriously though, enough with the St. Johns was some great victory stuff - its st. johns. 
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