General Sports Discussion > Motor Sports

Empty Seats

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Racinray:

I know we all have talked a little bit about the empty seats in all the NASCAR races and was just curious of what's everyone's thoughts on why you think it's gotten this far down.
I've read on other message boards the reasons why those folks thought was the reasons, I'm curious what everyone on here thinks.
I think TV has a lot to do with it. Why go spend all that money to go to the races when I can stay home and watch it on TV and actually watch it better.
I want to hear what others think.

ricepig:

It's boring for the most part. Outside of the super speedways, Bristol, and the road courses, I won't watch 25% of the TV coverage. I went to those tracks and Ft Worth years ago and really don't have much desire to go back. As you said, you can see it much better on TV.

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: Racinray on April 22, 2018, 01:49:01 pm ---I know we all have talked a little bit about the empty seats in all the NASCAR races and was just curious of what's everyone's thoughts on why you think it's gotten this far down.
I've read on other message boards the reasons why those folks thought was the reasons, I'm curious what everyone on here thinks.
I think TV has a lot to do with it. Why go spend all that money to go to the races when I can stay home and watch it on TV and actually watch it better.
I want to hear what others think.

--- End quote ---

It is boring. Why ? Numerous reasons. Cars have had way too much downforce the past 10 yrs so too easy to drive. Hell even Richmond last night was boring the first 300 laps.  Way too many mile and a half tracks were built in the last 20 years. Take races away from some and add short tracks. They should have increased the banking at Texas on the repave and made it a plate race. Place would be a sellout watching a pack of cars go around for 334 laps

Buff:

It's somehow Brian France's fault.  I just don't like him.

Racinray:


--- Quote from: Buff on April 22, 2018, 02:49:39 pm ---It's somehow Brian France's fault.

--- End quote ---
I keep reading this and it all started when he took over.
Watching the NHRA race and theres not many empty seats there, granted there is fewer seats.

Buff:


--- Quote from: Racinray on April 22, 2018, 03:43:34 pm ---I keep reading this and it all started when he took over.
Watching the NHRA race and theres not many empty seats there, granted there is fewer seats.

--- End quote ---

Look how many changes started seemingly as soon as he took over.  That abortion known as the Car-of-Tomorrow.  Bigger emphasis on cookie cutter tracks.  The Chase and now the Playoff thingy they got going on.  Rule changes every year, and even during the season.  Changing rules to help Toyota get settled in.  Refusing to punish certain people or teams that constantly get caught cheating - they all but shut MWR down but keep giving the 48 team slaps on the wrist.

The best thing that's happened under his watch was finally bringing the GWC up to the big stage so that running the final 10 laps under caution won't happen anymore.

In my view, NA$CAR appears to have become a constant source of manufactured excitement, by executives who at times seem out of touch with the fans.  Much like Washington DC.

ImHogginIt:

Seriously I think the biggest problem is the cars. Still way too much downforce . Remove splitters and return the valence. Raise the hell out of side skirts because they are still basically on the ground. Make those things hard to drive at 170 mph.

Warbirdhog:


--- Quote from: Buff on April 22, 2018, 06:09:31 pm ---Look how many changes started seemingly as soon as he took over.  That abortion known as the Car-of-Tomorrow.  Bigger emphasis on cookie cutter tracks.  The Chase and now the Playoff thingy they got going on.  Rule changes every year, and even during the season.  Changing rules to help Toyota get settled in.  Refusing to punish certain people or teams that constantly get caught cheating - they all but shut MWR down but keep giving the 48 team slaps on the wrist.

The best thing that's happened under his watch was finally bringing the GWC up to the big stage so that running the final 10 laps under caution won't happen anymore.

In my view, NA$CAR appears to have become a constant source of manufactured excitement, by executives who at times seem out of touch with the fans.  Much like Washington DC.

--- End quote ---


You hit more than one nail on the head in my view. The constant rule changing and manufactured 'excitement' for sure. I agree that the GXC is a good thing and the best thing I like about the 'chase' format is that a driver can no longer go into Homestead and only need to finish the race or '20th or better' to win the championship. They actually have to try to win the race or finish in front of 3 other drivers to win it, no more gimmes.

riccoar:

People want speed, so taking that away is not an issue.  Also, the playoff is a good thing.  That resulted from the old Cup format.  Now the COT was abysmal and the hit the economy took.  All you have to do is look at all the sponsors of the late 90's and early 2000's that are no longer there.

grayhawg:

They have made it too even, all bodys have to be the same with vinyl stick on grills. And that's just to help also rans to be more competitive. Racing was better with manufacture's body and a simple weight per CID rules.

riccoar:

Once the Mustangs get there, it will be more like the real bodies.  I think it would be good to have Dodge back too.

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: riccoar on April 23, 2018, 11:03:53 am ---People want speed, so taking that away is not an issue.  Also, the playoff is a good thing.  That resulted from the old Cup format.  Now the COT was abysmal and the hit the economy took.  All you have to do is look at all the sponsors of the late 90's and early 2000's that are no longer there.

--- End quote ---

I don't care about speed. I want bumping and banging. Not so much wrecks but bumping and banging like we saw the last 50 laps Saturday and the prev week at Bristol

10thPlanet:

Cookie cutter tracks, not enough short tracks. Sick of the aero component, fuel mileage and tires that last 425 laps. Build a 1/4 mile, run inverted heat races, and 250 lap feature. Let them choose what tire brand and compound. They can build stadium like seating around the track, and still have 100K+ seats. Too many rules, too many babies. The ones that threaten to quit let them go, someone competitive will replace them. Run the ASA/All Pro/ARTGO tracks of the 70's and 80's. Stands will be full. TV ratings will be off the charts.

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: ImHogginIt on April 23, 2018, 06:08:46 am ---Seriously I think the biggest problem is the cars. Still way too much downforce . Remove splitters and return the valence. Raise the hell out of side skirts because they are still basically on the ground. Make those things hard to drive at 170 mph.

--- End quote ---

2001 cars. Click to enlarge



East Clintwood:

It's not TV

The races have been televised for 50 years or more.

The drivers are boring, sanitized versions of what they used to be.

The cars are all the same/  They actually used to have different cars, not just decals.  It used to mean something to be a Chevy fan.  Or a Ford or Dodge fan.  What's the point now?  My decals are better than your decals?

The rules are stupid now.  Go back to the format of the '80's/'90's.

GroŖer Kriegschwein:


--- Quote from: East Clintwood on May 20, 2018, 12:51:55 pm ---It's not TV

The races have been televised for 50 years or more.

The drivers are boring, sanitized versions of what they used to be.

The cars are all the same/  They actually used to have different cars, not just decals.  It used to mean something to be a Chevy fan.  Or a Ford or Dodge fan.  What's the point now?  My decals are better than your decals?

The rules are stupid now.  Go back to the format of the '80's/'90's.

--- End quote ---

This.

They lost me after the Ferko Lawsuit. My dadís entire extended family lives within 15 miles of Darlington.

One more reason to hate Texas


ImHogginIt:

Man there is damn near nobody at the Texas truck race tonight. How do they justify having this race ?

Racinray:


--- Quote from: ImHogginIt on June 08, 2018, 09:16:21 pm ---Man there is damn near nobody at the Texas truck race tonight. How do they justify having this race ?

--- End quote ---
Indy cars won't have much more.

DLUXHOG:

Ticket price too great for the real fans?    I reckon thatís what NASCAR gets for catering to the finicky blue blood crowd....

Racinray:

Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: Racinray on June 09, 2018, 07:42:28 am ---Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?

--- End quote ---

Agree 100% with ya. Keep em' out.

On another note Keselowski said the other day they don't need to run tha all star rules package anywhere but the all star race. Says running it elsewhere will cause the best drivers to go to other forms of racing :-)  Frick Brad ! He best learn he is there to entertain and put butts in the seats and they are failing miserably at that. I've bought my last ticket to Texas Motor Speedway unless they run the all star package there. I'm sick of wasting my money on boring races there.



ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: ImHogginIt on June 09, 2018, 11:06:52 am ---Agree 100% with ya. Keep em' out.

On another note Keselowski said the other day they don't need to run tha all star rules package anywhere but the all star race. Says running it elsewhere will cause the best drivers to go to other forms of racing :-)  Frick Brad ! He best learn he is there to entertain and put butts in the seats and they are failing miserably at that. I've bought my last ticket to Texas Motor Speedway unless they run the all star package there. I'm sick of wasting my money on boring races there.

--- End quote ---

Score 1 for Ty Dillon with his response to Keselowski

"I guess we will find out who cares about our sport and who cares about themselves! "

Racinray:


--- Quote from: Racinray on June 08, 2018, 09:39:45 pm ---Indy cars won't have much more.

--- End quote ---
Actually a decent crowd, I was wrong.

Buff:

I'm actually surprised too at how many people are at the Indy race

Racinray:

Never been to a Indy car race, I'll make it to one eventually.

ImHogginIt:

Please let it happen at both Texas races in 2019

http://www.racinboys.com/news/?i=63518

holeinthewall:

Next Sunday will be a sell out.   They should take one of the Pocono dates and got to Mid Ohio or Elkhart Lake.

Warbirdhog:


--- Quote from: Racinray on June 09, 2018, 07:42:28 am ---Lets change the subject. What's everyones thoughts on cup drivers in the Xfinity races. That seems to be the hot topic on all the NASCAR talk shows.
I think they should not be in the Xfinity races, let these guys have their own race without the high dollar guys.
I know everyone says it puts people in the stands, have you seen the stands lately?
Just my thoughts, what's yours?

--- End quote ---


My thoughts on this would be to retain limiting the number of races the cup drivers can enter but reduce the 5 year number down to 3 or even 2 years for those recently moved to Cup. I am a Kyle Bush fan but still pull for an xfinity driver to win (except for the Hendrick lite drivers although I do like Allgaier). The value I see in the cup drivers is that with some of the xfinity drivers being moved up into cup so fast these days, it gives them a front row seat experience of what they will be up against and a look at how the cup drivers work passes and grooves. And that is something that even the xfinity drivers have voiced at times when asked about it.



Team21:

In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.

DeWayne R:

The little dirt track we went to last weekend at Fairbury, ILL was a standing room only crowd. Pop. 3968 during race weekend bout 10,000 wondering around.

holeinthewall:


--- Quote ---grow up north and out west
--- End quote ---

You ever been up north?  There are more local tracks than in the south I promise you.

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: Team21 on August 01, 2018, 10:59:24 am ---In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.

--- End quote ---

The mile and a halfs killed NASCAR along with the front splitters and side skirts basically touching the ground giving them tons of downforce. Fix the cars and run the all-star package on the mile and a halfs along with maybe dropping a few races from those tracks and moving to short tracks or road courses.

Warbirdhog:


--- Quote from: Team21 on August 01, 2018, 10:59:24 am ---In my opinion here is what happened:

Days Of Thunder came out. End of NA$CAR.

Or as I call is "Top Gun On Wheels". Hollywood got a lot of NON FANS interested in the sport. Then NA$CAR started making changes to welcome the "Hollywood Crowd" and dumping on the fans that BUILT the sport. (JUST LIKE JEFF LONG DID TO THE RAZORBACKS) A lot of hardcore, life long fans were turned off and went away. France tried his hardest to "clean up the sport" to appeal to these band wagon jumpers.

These fans they kissed up too were NEVER going to stay for the long term. Just as long as it was fashionable.

So NA$CAR thought there was an opportunity to grow up north and out west. So what do they do... FOCUS ALL GROWTH ON THEM. Build a crap load of mile & a half tracks (cookie cutter tracks) & add as many seats as you can add to existing tracks.

Then it all started to go away. So they did whet most out of touch management usually does, try making more rules to make what used to be exciting, exciting again. At the same time, favoring the two or three "super teams" and so called "STARS" of the sport. In essence, prostituting & castrating the sport.

They bring in these outsiders to try to make it better when it was awesome to begin with.

Arkansas has done the same thing. Throw out what got ya there in favor of what looks to be more promising all in the name of GROWTH. Ignoring the old adage, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!" (Thanks John White)

NA$CAR should go back to ALL STEEL factory bodies. If your car isn't aerodynamic enough.... TOUGH!
This generic "all cars should be equal" BS needs to go. Might as well be racing go carts. Next thing you know they'll be handing out PARTICIPATION trophy's  at Martinsville instead of a clock.

Psychotic rant over.

--- End quote ---

Nothing wrong with that rant.

 It really hit the steep slope (along with going hollywood) when the 'Car of Tomorrow' was shoved on the teams.

Warbirdhog:


--- Quote from: riccoar on April 23, 2018, 02:18:49 pm ---Once the Mustangs get there, it will be more like the real bodies.  I think it would be good to have Dodge back too.

--- End quote ---


Well, sorta kinda.. I guess



https://galleries.nascar.com/gallery/2343/first-look-2019-monster-energy-series-ford-mustang#/0

holeinthewall:

Looks good. 

riccoar:

Toyota Supra to Xfinity in 2019.  I'm sure it will move to Cup shortly after.

Buff:

I rarely cheer for Toyota drivers - Natalie Decker being the exception - but I hvae to say TRD's dedication to the Nascar programs has been nothing short of impressive.

ImHogginIt:

Please let the All Star package come to most of these places. Especially down here at both Texas races. I want to see that place packed with fans again

http://www.espn.com/jayski/cup/2018/story/_/id/24217991/nascar-working-2019-rules-package

Buff:

Same story for decades now - the cars are sooooo dependent on clean air. 

Harvick, again, had the faster car and just has so much trouble pulling off a pass on the 78 up front. 

Nascar needs to find some way to ensure multiple grooves of racing, whether that's by putting glue on the tracks, reducing aero-dependency (like they've promised for years), using softer tires that put rubber on the track faster, or something. 

ImHogginIt:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1028709796906553344

Buff:

^ Single-issue voter

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: Buff on August 12, 2018, 03:58:29 pm ---^ Single-issue voter

--- End quote ---

Single issue when it comes to boring mile and a half tracks
Give me a reason to drive 30 miles to Texas Motor Speedway again. Races are painfully boring there

Buff:

What's another viable option besides the restrictor plates?  More stages?  Elimination heat races?  Snipers?  Set up a Figure-8 track in the infield?

ImHogginIt:


--- Quote from: Buff on August 12, 2018, 04:15:42 pm ---What's another viable option besides the restrictor plates?  More stages?  Elimination heat races?  Snipers?  Set up a Figure-8 track in the infield?

--- End quote ---


Figure 8 please and rain tires if needed

Buff:

I'd love to see them run the original Daytona beach.  Throw in a dirt track or two during the season as well.

holeinthewall:

I'd love to see no competition cautions.  No stoppage between the stages and no pitting under yellow.

Warbirdhog:


--- Quote from: holeinthewall on August 13, 2018, 04:01:29 am ---I'd love to see no competition cautions.  No stoppage between the stages and no pitting under yellow.

--- End quote ---

Agree on getting rid of the competition caution. Let them pit after the stages but only for adjustment, no fuel & no tire change.

Get rid of the splitter and side skirts, make them once again figure out how to drive the car without all that down force.

holeinthewall:

I have said before they want a competition caution then make where every car has to pit and take tires under green on say lap 30 or 31.  Let it stay green but make them pit for tires.

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