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Author Topic: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s  (Read 2287 times)

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luke hawg

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Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« on: April 14, 2018, 10:54:05 pm »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
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luke hawg

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 10:58:45 pm »

It hurts to ask this question but I can't think of a program that pays more for consistent mediocrity.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 11:09:26 pm by luke hawg »
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 11:18:52 pm »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
how can you tell?  Our stadium is still unfinished, our football complex is only in it's 3rd year, our basketball facility in it's second year (and they have been improving noticeably fundamentally imo), and the track and baseball complexes just got done. I'd argue that since we decided to be LAST at building everything we havent had much of a chance to see any returns yet.


Also, WRONG FORUM.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 08:46:01 am »

It hurts to ask this question but I can't think of a program that pays more for consistent mediocrity.

Kentucky, SC, Mizzou just to name some in the SEC. In each P5 conference there are a few.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 10:10:18 am »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?

Probable not? 

I live in Las Cruces, NM now and they pay their mens FB and BB head coach about $300k  a year which is near the very bottom and both teams went to the post season.  I know they could not compete in the SEC but they are getting their money's worth.
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bennyl08

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 07:36:07 pm »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?

Almost every single other program. The vast majority of programs don't even create a profit.

Looking at the 15-16 year numbers, we are getting a bigger return on investment than Bama with our program earning 1.18 for every 1.00 spent while Bama only returns just under 1.13 . I'd wager we probably have a better return on investment than most any other SEC team out there as well, much less the rest of the country.

Aggies that year are the only ones I see getting a bigger roi.  Maybe somebody at the bottom of the list.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
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luke hawg

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 07:39:23 pm »

I was talking about a return in the form of elite prospects
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jgphillips3

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 08:17:47 pm »

I was talking about a return in the form of elite prospects

Petrino was a winner, but an ass.

Bielema was a loser, but personable.

Morris seems to both a winner and likeable.  Let’s give him 2-4 years and return to this conversation then.  It doesn’t happen overnight.
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bennyl08

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 10:54:32 pm »

I was talking about a return in the form of elite prospects

Well, we had the 22nd best roster in the country based on 247 rankings last season. If recruiting rankings don't float your boat, we rank 15 in the country in draft picks since 2010 (Not trying to cherry pick dates there, that was just the first link I could find, I was hoping to just find past 5 years). . Factor in that most every single power 5 school has been participating in this same arms race and we've gotten better returns than most anybody else.

I mean, Oregon State has facilities on par with Bama and they jump for joy if they so much as break into the top 50. Heck, there are even some non-power 5 schools with amenities that can compete with everyone else as well.

No matter how you slice it, the poor little ole Arkansas argument just doesn't fly.
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jkstock04

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 12:06:38 am »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
Highly doubtful. I haven’t been to every away SEC venue but I’ve been to a few. LSU and Ole Miss’ stadiums no where near as nice as ours. Not sure about their practice facilities and how they compare to ours but I wouldn’t be surprised if ours were better as well. South Carolina and for sure Auburns stadiums are better than ours.

Regardless of that...you think about when this really got started with the “answer the call” campaign. Completely my opinion, but with Petrino I felt like we were getting a nice return on the investment...but ever since then it’s been absolute garbage, and prices for sure haven’t gone down.

I would be curious to see how much Vanderbilt and Kentucky (where we are nationally perceived now) have spent on the facilities arms race the past 10 years in comparison to Arkansas. My guess is no where close to as much. I also would be interested to know if any other school has spent or is spending the same amount or more than with comparable results the past few years.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 12:55:53 am »

Petrino was a winner, but an ass.

Bielema was a loser, but personable.

Morris seems to both a winner and likeable.  Let’s give him 2-4 years and return to this conversation then.  It doesn’t happen overnight.
No need to worry about Chad getting to overstay his welcome. Why, one might ask ? Because there is a multi-billionaire alumni to the south and west of Fayetteville who's grandson is going to play football at the UA for the next 5 years. Let me say that if "Put it in the left lane and hammer down" doesn't get it done during the tenure of one J.S. Jones, Papaw Jones will jump on that smokin' hot lear jet with the huge blue star on it and personally take care of matters. There is a clock and it's now ticking. Jerrah can be patient, but once he makes up his mind someone is gonzo, he's a goner. Need proof, just ask Dez Bryant.
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Hou-Hog

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 12:58:04 am »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
How are you measuring your question? In ROI, the answer is that we are doing exceptional well.  If you are trying to say we are not winning enough fine.  Vandy, Ole Miss, non-P5 would be worse
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1highhog

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 05:39:34 am »

No need to worry about Chad getting to overstay his welcome. Why, one might ask ? Because there is a multi-billionaire alumni to the south and west of Fayetteville who's grandson is going to play football at the UA for the next 5 years. Let me say that if "Put it in the left lane and hammer down" doesn't get it done during the tenure of one J.S. Jones, Papaw Jones will jump on that smokin' hot lear jet with the huge blue star on it and personally take care of matters. There is a clock and it's now ticking. Jerrah can be patient, but once he makes up his mind someone is gonzo, he's a goner. Need proof, just ask Dez Bryant.

Uhh, and how long has he went with his current experiment of a head coach?
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hogfan58

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 06:09:12 am »

Highly doubtful. I haven’t been to every away SEC venue but I’ve been to a few. LSU and Ole Miss’ stadiums no where near as nice as ours. Not sure about their practice facilities and how they compare to ours but I wouldn’t be surprised if ours were better as well. South Carolina and for sure Auburns stadiums are better than ours.
 

When was  the last time you were at South Carolina? When I was there it looked like a dump in the middle of a field far away from their campus. No way does it look better than RRS.
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jkstock04

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 07:03:49 am »

When was  the last time you were at South Carolina? When I was there it looked like a dump in the middle of a field far away from their campus. No way does it look better than RRS.
Last season actually...glorious, signature Bret Bielema uncommon era beat down in 100 degree heat. Being far away from campus like you say is for sure a negative...but I felt the design of the actual stadium was a little better than ours.

Of course, across the nation or conference there are many that would rank LSU in the top 3. I consider that place a large version of war memorial. Parts of it on the inside looked like it was about to crumble down in a catastrophe at any moment and you needed binoculars to view the “jumbo” screen. All in eye of the beholder I guess.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 07:40:46 am »

I have to think that with the $160 million stadium upgrade our facilities must be as good as most or at least good enough that a recruit does not say no because of what they see.  Maybe not as big but as nice. 

Now we must win games.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:53:21 am by nwahogfan1 »
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 08:14:09 am »

Too many fans concentrate on the stadium, it’s size and such. What players and recruits want to see as top notch are what they will use. Is the overall facilities that matter not just the stadium. That will give recruits the idea that the program is committed to them, the teams and the fans.
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Michael D Huff AIA

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 08:51:38 am »

Any golfers in the group?  How many times have you heard someone say about that new driver, "You know, you can't buy a game."

You can't buy wins, either. 

The spending of money for facilities just keeps us in the conversation for players that we hope to win with.  Never mind who the coach is or what sort of offense or defense we run.  Facilities are the bricks and mortar version of a marketing staff for the (insert your sport here) program.  They answer the question, "Is this school committed to (insert your sport here)."  There is a price to be paid just to do what everyone else is doing to beat out the ones that aren't.  It's just the cost of doing business. 

This subject is very closely related to the uniform debate that appears on this board so often.  "Do we need 14 versions of our uniform" is somewhat related to "Do we need loge boxes and club seats in the north end zone".  If the players see we are keeping up with the times and they think what we have is 'cool' then we have a better chance to get the players we need.  I can see the difficulty in wrapping our collective heads around the idea that the stadium isn't 100% for the fans.  We want something for the time and treasure that we devote to the program. 

 
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Cotton

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 08:56:53 am »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
Is anyone more negative than Hogville posters?
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 10:45:31 am »

Uhh, and how long has he went with his current experiment of a head coach?
short of a Super Bowl win, this is Ginger's last season as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys...by the way your analogy is flawed, the Dallas Cowboys make Jerrah Jones boatloads of money per year, as far as his alma mater, the money only flows one way, out of Jerry's pocket to the Razorback Foundation...see the difference ?
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 10:51:09 am »

No need to worry about Chad getting to overstay his welcome. Why, one might ask ? Because there is a multi-billionaire alumni to the south and west of Fayetteville who's grandson is going to play football at the UA for the next 5 years. Let me say that if "Put it in the left lane and hammer down" doesn't get it done during the tenure of one J.S. Jones, Papaw Jones will jump on that smokin' hot lear jet with the huge blue star on it and personally take care of matters. There is a clock and it's now ticking. Jerrah can be patient, but once he makes up his mind someone is gonzo, he's a goner. Need proof, just ask Dez Bryant.

How's that?
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hogfan58

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 06:28:30 pm »

Last season actually...glorious, signature Bret Bielema uncommon era beat down in 100 degree heat. Being far away from campus like you say is for sure a negative...but I felt the design of the actual stadium was a little better than ours.

Of course, across the nation or conference there are many that would rank LSU in the top 3. I consider that place a large version of war memorial. Parts of it on the inside looked like it was about to crumble down in a catastrophe at any moment and you needed binoculars to view the “jumbo” screen. All in eye of the beholder I guess.

I agree about LSU, it's a larger older version of WMS that is about to crumble at any second.
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Anybody

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 07:31:57 pm »

The word is that Jerry wanted to keep Dez, but Stephen talked him into ridding the team of that cancerous primadonna.

The coaches got real tired of his antics on the sidelines, etc.

GO COWBOYS !

GO HOGS !!!
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Pork Twain

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2018, 12:56:27 am »

Does anyone get less return on investment than Arkansas?
Some people just need a good ole cry to feel better.  At least before you do it publicly, look at the list of most and least profitable universities.

It would save everyone time and make you fell better.  As of 2015/16 we were #14 in all of college sports without a dominant team in any sport.  Now if you mean a dominant team by return on investment, those two things do not correlate.  Return on investment implies $$$, you cannot simply build great structures in college sports and correlate that to wins.

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/six-sec-schools-ranked-top-10-nationally-total-revenue

•Texas A&M (No. 1/$194,388,450)
•Alabama (No. 4/$164,009,745)
•LSU (No. 7/$141,651,460)
•Florida (No. 8/$141,441,109)
•Tennessee (No. 9/$140,448,955)
•Auburn (No. 10/$140,070,593)
•Kentucky (No. 13/$132,180,246)
•Arkansas (No. 14/$124,981,042)
•Georgia (No. 15/$123,841,268)
•South Carolina (No. 17/$122,331,092)
•Mississippi (No. 24/$110,524,705)
•Missouri (No. 30/$97,275,839)
•Mississippi State (No. 34/$94,903,405)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 01:32:18 am by Pork Twain »
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2018, 01:20:47 am »

How's that?
and you don't think J.S. Jones is going to be red shirted this year ?
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hawganatic

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2018, 07:02:28 am »

Almost every single other program. The vast majority of programs don't even create a profit.

Looking at the 15-16 year numbers, we are getting a bigger return on investment than Bama with our program earning 1.18 for every 1.00 spent while Bama only returns just under 1.13 . I'd wager we probably have a better return on investment than most any other SEC team out there as well, much less the rest of the country.

Aggies that year are the only ones I see getting a bigger roi.  Maybe somebody at the bottom of the list.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Good luck with this.  I doubt the OP understands what ROI really means...
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HeathWimp

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2018, 09:47:29 am »

Petrino was a winner, but an ass.

Bielema was a loser, but personable.

Morris seems to both a winner and likeable.  Let’s give him 2-4 years and return to this conversation then.  It doesn’t happen overnight.

We just need to give the man some time!
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2018, 09:57:22 am »

We just need to give the man some time!

The guy hasn't coached a game. You're right, we do need to give him time.

Also, your signature line is interesting. You note that Morris will be 17-21 after year 3 and that reads as though everything is doom and gloom.

38 games in 3 years is an average of 12.67 games per year, meaning we'd make postseason 2 years, or a deeper run 1 year.

So, hypothetically:
2018: 0-12
2019: 8-5
2020: 9-4

If we're trending up in 2019 by winning 8 (more than our historical average) and finish 2020 at 9-4, I think the fanbase will be pretty excited about what might be next. No?

Anyway. Thought that was an interesting sig line.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2018, 10:06:01 am »

RME- first time I can remember where I would have +1'd you.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2018, 10:11:51 am »

RME giving him the wood
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Sho Nuff

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2018, 10:35:16 am »

Probable not? 

I live in Las Cruces, NM now and they pay their mens FB and BB head coach about $300k  a year which is near the very bottom and both teams went to the post season.  I know they could not compete in the SEC but they are getting their money's worth.
Sorry that you have to live in Las Cruces ;)  Seriously though, La Posta in Mesilla is one of the best restaurants I've been to.  I lived in ABQ for 14 years, Sadie's is the best there.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2018, 10:47:41 am »

Petrino was a winner, but an ass.

Bielema was a loser, but personable.

Morris seems to both a winner and likeable.  Let’s give him 2-4 years and return to this conversation then.  It doesn’t happen overnight.

Your descriptions are in hindsight. You'll find negative descriptions of CCM if he doesn't work out.

How many double digit win seasons have we had since joining the SEC? 3? All while Ole Miss and MS St were practically given wins. That's not the case any more. CBB and CCM have/had it a lot harder than CHN and CBP ever dreamed of.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 12:04:38 pm by Al Boarland »
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HogPharmer

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2018, 11:09:18 am »

The guy hasn't coached a game. You're right, we do need to give him time.

Also, your signature line is interesting. You note that Morris will be 17-21 after year 3 and that reads as though everything is doom and gloom.

38 games in 3 years is an average of 12.67 games per year, meaning we'd make postseason 2 years, or a deeper run 1 year.

So, hypothetically:
2018: 0-12
2019: 8-5
2020: 9-4

If we're trending up in 2019 by winning 8 (more than our historical average) and finish 2020 at 9-4, I think the fanbase will be pretty excited about what might be next. No?

Anyway. Thought that was an interesting sig line.

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DeltaBoy

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2018, 11:46:56 am »

Petrino was a winner, but an ass.

Bielema was a loser, but personable.

Morris seems to both a winner and likeable.  Let’s give him 2-4 years and return to this conversation then.  It doesn’t happen overnight.

I agree.
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1highhog

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2018, 03:12:19 pm »

short of a Super Bowl win, this is Ginger's last season as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys...by the way your analogy is flawed, the Dallas Cowboys make Jerrah Jones boatloads of money per year, as far as his alma mater, the money only flows one way, out of Jerry's pocket to the Razorback Foundation...see the difference ?

I didn’t give and anology, I just asked the question of how long has Jerry Jones stuck with a loser of a Coach of the Dallas Cowboys?
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HeathWimp

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2018, 07:50:48 pm »

The guy hasn't coached a game. You're right, we do need to give him time.

Also, your signature line is interesting. You note that Morris will be 17-21 after year 3 and that reads as though everything is doom and gloom.

38 games in 3 years is an average of 12.67 games per year, meaning we'd make postseason 2 years, or a deeper run 1 year.

So, hypothetically:
2018: 0-12
2019: 8-5
2020: 9-4

If we're trending up in 2019 by winning 8 (more than our historical average) and finish 2020 at 9-4, I think the fanbase will be pretty excited about what might be next. No?

Anyway. Thought that was an interesting sig line.




I do think Morris will be under 0.500 after 3 years.  It may not be exactly 17-21, but within a game or two.  Maybe something like this:

2018: 4-8
2019: 6-7
2020: 7-6

I think he will make us more competitive than Bielema, but that may not translate to more wins.  After the last 6 years, I think I'd be happy with less blow-out losses.

I'd love to be wrong, and if your scenario ends up happening, I'll be glad to change my sig line to reflect the consumption of some crow.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:16:36 pm by HeathWimp »
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2018, 08:55:02 pm »


I do think Morris will be under 0.500 after 3 years.  It may not be exactly 17-21, but within a game or two.  Maybe something like this:

2018: 4-8
2019: 6-7
2020: 7-6

I think he will make us more competitive than Bielema, but that may not translate to more wins.  After the last 6 years, I think I'd be happy with less blow-out losses.

I'd love to be wrong, and if your scenario ends up happening, I'll be glad to change my sig line to reflect the consumption of some crow.


I don't think we will go 0-12 in Morris' first season. That would be absolutely pitiful for any HC, let alone someone who knows how to coordinate a successful offense who has brought on a DC who can produce a better defensive result than last season.

My guess is (and it is way early to be guessing) is that we win 6 in the regular season next year and maybe get to a bowl. The next season we win 7-8 in the regular season, the next, 8-9. Do I expect that in the first 3 seasons that we are going to challenge for the SEC? No. Could it happen? Yes it could, but if it did we would have to poney up the cash to keep Morris because someone else would be willing to write him a bigger check for such quick results that they too would want to experience the same turnaround. So I expect that this is yet another 5 year projected term unless Morris surprises all of us.

And you know, he just might, but time will tell. Far too many questions remain to be answered at this point.
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mizzouman

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Re: Since the facilities arms race accelerated in the 90s
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2018, 03:30:08 pm »

Kentucky, SC, Mizzou just to name some in the SEC. In each P5 conference there are a few.
Mizzou is in the bottom tier when it comes to facilities, especially football.  Yet I think the success in football has far out weighed it's facilities.
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