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Author Topic: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..  (Read 3462 times)

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bennyl08

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2018, 05:48:33 pm »

Y’all do comprehend that JSJ was All State QB in Texas, right? (and Landry award winner, and DMN Sports Day all-area offensive player of the year.....   simply put we’re fortunate he picked us over all the other offers he received from several top schools)

The only other offers he had were SMU (and that was only after Morris left), TTU, and Kansas. Those are what you consider to be top schools?

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/John-Stephen-Jones-103077/RecruitInterests

Also awards in HS play are about as important and relevant for collegiate performance being a tic tac toe grand champion is relevant in playing chess. The best HS team in Texas would have the score named on them by most any JUCO team.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2018, 07:59:00 pm »

The only other offers he had were SMU (and that was only after Morris left), TTU, and Kansas. Those are what you consider to be top schools?

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/John-Stephen-Jones-103077/RecruitInterests

Also awards in HS play are about as important and relevant for collegiate performance being a tic tac toe grand champion is relevant in playing chess. The best HS team in Texas would have the score named on them by most any JUCO team.

Guess you’re not real bright....
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Old Boar

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2018, 11:51:38 am »

Let me remind folks of what you don't do. You never bench a starting quarterback that has a 25 and 2 record at half-time of a national championship game and replace him with a true freshman. Especially if your playing against the number 4 scoring defense in the country.

You play whoever gives you the best chance to win regardless of the opponent or the current situation. No one knows Morris's playbook better than Morris and no one will be better positioned than Morris to make that call.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2018, 12:14:55 pm »

And....  Texas HS football is a much higher level of play than many on here can possibly, or remotely comprehend......

Let's not read too much into that. How quickly any highly rated HS QB comes into a P-5 conference and adapts to the speed of play and decision making varies from QB to QB and often times it is difficult to predict. I think that we have all seen examples of players that were viewed as immediate impact players who performed below expectations and we have seen kids who were forced into playing time that somehow, found a way to perform at a higher level than anticipated.

Bottom line, we just don't know, regardless of who our "fan favorites" may be, and we won't know until they get on campus and are thrown into more game-like situations against true starters.

I don't think that Morris would hesitate to use a true freshman if he demonstrated that he was the best option available to us on the team at QB. We will see when August rolls around.

As for the OP, it typically isn't the best idea to start a true freshman at QB, but there are always exceptions to every rule of thumb.
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exit followed by a boar

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2018, 01:27:21 pm »

Depends. Experience is an obvious factor, but so are athletic ability and comfort in the offense. I know that coaches want to win now, and CCM will choose the QB who, in his view, is best able to perform now.  Games are always different from practices, but if CCM thinks one of our newbies is better able to produce than the Cole, Ty, Daulton . . . , he will go with him. If it comes to that and our freshman is a deer in the headlights, he'll go back to experience.

All this said, I think our starting QB is already on campus.

EFBAB
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DLUXHOG

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2018, 06:27:07 am »

Let's not read too much into that......


I’m not attempting to claim jsj is the second coming of Roger Staubach, however I am shocked that so many here disregard the recent history of Texas HS QBs who have had tremendous success at several P-5 schools.  Texas HS football is at a totally different level than just about any other state hs football program (look at scholly numbers for all schools with regard to which states provide the most players....  I think you’ll find Texas, Georgia, & Florida at the top of that pile by a large proportion)
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2018, 06:36:18 am »

I’m not attempting to claim jsj is the second coming of Roger Staubach, however I am shocked that so many here disregard the recent history of Texas HS QBs who have had tremendous success at several P-5 schools.  Texas HS football is at a totally different level than just about any other state hs football program (look at scholly numbers for all schools with regard to which states provide the most players....  I think you’ll find Texas, Georgia, & Florida at the top of that pile by a large proportion)

They (Texas) should by virtue of the number of football playing schools that they have within their border.
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LZH

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2018, 06:58:36 am »

Jones, Mustain, and possibly Grovey started games as freshmen....they did pretty well for the most part. Talent is usually there, but knowledge of the offense and speed of the SEC are the factors.
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nwahogfan1

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2018, 07:13:35 am »

..With the state of our current OL?

Even if Noland (or Jones) is the best QB on campus, do you throw them to the wolves behind our OL? I would legitimately be worried about mentally messing them up with all the hits they would take.

Or is the smart move to redshirt them, let them learn the system and allow our OL to have time to build depth

If a freshman wins the job then you play him but it would show bad evaluation in recruiting from your older kids.  Of course we recruited our older players to run a completely different style so I will give them a pass but I say we will have a freshman QB either starting by the 4th game or he will be getting minutes because I am not confident in Cole or Ty to run this offense.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 09:21:22 am by nwahogfan1 »
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jbigs77

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2018, 07:58:29 am »

OP brings up decent topic. There is a reason Austin Allen didn’t make it through the year in 2017.
Yes there was a reason, he got beat up so bad he could hardly walk after games. It wasn't just physical but mental to. If the OL is similar to what we have seen in the last few years, I would be real hesitant to start a freshman, or any QB that wasn't physically durable. As of now, Cole K. is the one that might last awhile. I am not saying he's the best one, buy maybe the only one that wouldn't get beat to death.
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DOGALUM

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2018, 08:21:34 am »

Moot point for the Hogs.  Cole Kelley is our QB this coming season.
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wildhogman

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2018, 08:46:15 am »

Jones, Mustain, and possibly Grovey started games as freshmen....they did pretty well for the most part. Talent is usually there, but knowledge of the offense and speed of the SEC are the factors.
How good was the team they started on? Compared to what we may or may not have now.  I know in 2006 we had a good line with great RB's(elite), We also had some salty WR's(maybe not game breakers but they could make the clutch catch) .  The D wasn't to shabby either that year. USC scored 50 but then they scored a lot in every game.  LSU and Florida scored in the 30's.  No one else scored over 23(bama and they lost an OT game). SC got 20 in a loss. Fair to say our D that year helped win a lot of games along with that strong running game?
Grovey again had the luxury of strong Defense's along with a weak SWC.  But he was a talent for sure. I loved to watch him run that option. 
MJ was a talented athletic freak.  That tall and ran like a deer causing D's to take bad angles all 4 years he played. Even guys who saw him all 4 years still took the wrong angle trying to catch him on break aways.  His threat to run and the RB's we had won a lot. But his passing was hit and miss at best. As with all of HDN teams that D was decent as well. 
Point being its not the QB that makes the team. Sometimes its the team that makes the QB.  We aren't real sure what we have right now given the previous staffs faults and rumors of faults. Maybe we have a great team with lots of talent that was misused, or maybe we have no talent and are in for a really bad year no matter the QB.
Starting a Frosh QB is going to depend on what's around him and your long term goal.  Maybe CCM sees this year as a complete rebuild lucky to get to a bowl and wont waste a Fr nor jeapordize his confidence for one more win. You go bowling at 6-6 same as 7-5.  The important thing is you get extra time and practice with your team.
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twistitup

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2018, 08:47:12 am »

If a freshman wins the job then you play him but it would show bad evaluation in recruiting.

by the previous staff....
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zeke_in_kc

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2018, 11:43:42 am »

You play the QB who gives you best chance to win.

I see your point but strategically extend it: you play the QB who gives you the best chance to win the next three years.  All other things being reasonably equal (i.e., we're not going to be good, anyway)?  PLAY YOUTH.

Especially in Year One.
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WBOBO

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2018, 11:51:40 am »

From the old school saying, if a dog is gonna bite he'll bite as a pup.
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Hogindasticks

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2018, 12:30:42 pm »

I get the premise behind this line of thinking, but I don't think starting a true freshman in THIS type of offense matters.  The reason being is because any freshman who starts in THIS offense will be more fleet of foot than whomever is also at the position.  Therefore, if he has better "get-away" ability, the inconsistency of an O-line hurts less.  Also, he'll be lining up in the gun, so more pocket time is available.

In the previous offense, this would certainly have been impactful.  It killed David Carr's career in Houston, for example.  But we'll be ok'den with CCM.

Ding ding!  We have a winner!
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DLUXHOG

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2018, 05:00:59 pm »

by the previous staff....

Okay, okay, we all realize that the new staff gets a gimme year or two, however, Lou Holtz took a team that went 5-5-1 the year before he got here to a 11-1 record in year one....(also were ranked #3 at season end and were preseason #1 pick in his second year)....
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RebHog

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2018, 07:06:29 pm »

Y’all do comprehend that JSJ was All State QB in Texas, right? (and Landry award winner, and DMN Sports Day all-area offensive player of the year.....  simply put we’re fortunate he picked us over all the other offers he received from several top schools)

So benny provided you recruiting facts and you call him stupid. I would like to see these top schools you speak of in a link.
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twistitup

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2018, 07:24:24 pm »

Okay, okay, we all realize that the new staff gets a gimme year or two, however, Lou Holtz took a team that went 5-5-1 the year before he got here to a 11-1 record in year one....(also were ranked #3 at season end and were preseason #1 pick in his second year)....

Lou Holtz? You pull one example out of the history of our football program and throw that out there like it means something?

It's called an anomaly
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2018, 07:25:59 pm »

Lou Holtz? You pull one example out of the history of our football program and throw that out there?

Get those concessions ready cuz we're about to party like it's 1977.
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bennyl08

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2018, 07:33:19 pm »

Lou Holtz? You pull one example out of the history of our football program and throw that out there like it means something?

It's called an anomaly

We have more than one example in our history, and there are many examples in general. It isn't the expected result, but it happens enough that it isn't an anomaly.
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TexHog188

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2018, 08:45:29 pm »

If they are your best option, then yes. Apparently it’s also okay to put a freshman into the National championship game for the second half if he’s your best option. Point is, you play the players that give you the best chance to win. 
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steveaustin69

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #72 on: April 18, 2018, 09:55:31 am »

We have more than one example in our history, and there are many examples in general. It isn't the expected result, but it happens enough that it isn't an anomaly.

a·nom·a·ly
əˈnäməlē/Submit
noun
1.
something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

Things that make you say hmmmmm.
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uconnhog

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #73 on: April 18, 2018, 12:03:14 pm »

From the old school saying, if a dog is gonna bite he'll bite as a pup.
Agree if they practice for position and a freshman comes out so what, upperclassman needs to beat him in next weeks practice
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arthurhawgerelli

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2018, 01:02:24 pm »

It is common knowledge that Bret Bielema was highly upset when Sam Pittman left for Georgia. Pittman has friends in the area who say he was totally ticked off at Bielema for mischaracterizing what happened when he left. Specifically Pittman denies that he ignored a request by his O-linemen at Arkansas to meet with them after he decided to leave.

There's a story making the rounds that as Bielema starting calling coaches to come up with Pittman's replacement he continued to grouce about Pittman. At some point he contacted Rex Ryan at Buffalo who happened to be friends with Pittman. So when Bielema starts in on the Pittman thing a light bulb goes off in Ryan's head. He's got this assistant to the offensive line coach who is not ready to be a position coach. So he recommends the hell out of the guy.


Bielema hires an unqualified O-Line coach and it ends up costing him his job.

It's an interesting story. It may or may not be true but there are those who have told me that the talent in the O-Line is not nearly as bad as it's looked the last two seasons. It was coaching (or a lack of it).

I guess we will soon see.

This makes lots of sense.  When the "line killer" arrived, all he did was talk in abstract, coachspeak talk to the linemen.  He kept them very confused, and he also would add rule upon rule on what to do in specific situations that very rarely came up in collegiate football.  You hit the nail on the head in that more than anything he cost Coach B his job. 
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uconnhog

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2018, 08:42:58 am »

I see your point but strategically extend it: you play the QB who gives you the best chance to win the next three years.  All other things being reasonably equal (i.e., we're not going to be good, anyway)?  PLAY YOUTH.

Especially in Year One.
If you practice for position and a freshman wins he plays, upperclassman to win next weeks practice
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logic

Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2018, 10:09:26 am »

We don't have any 5* freshmen qbs so it is not going to happen.
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gawntrail

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Re: Is starting a Freshman QB a good idea..
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2018, 11:40:28 am »

You play to win....so you play the best players!

The main focus of any paid position is success. 

Win Football games.  Compete every week like your job depends on it.  Build our brand. Create excitement and a expand the following for the program.  Run a clean program.  Provide an experience these young men can always take pride in and make them active/passive ambassadors of everything Razorbacks.

May not be an actual order of things, but, the focus has to be Winning as #1 and everything else 1a, 1b, 1c, etc...

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