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Author Topic: Finebaum says Luke > Morris  (Read 10328 times)

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Busta_Nutt

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #200 on: April 13, 2018, 02:29:54 pm »

So what you are saying s if we are not winning where we are just go down to another conference where we an win. I say stay where we are and get a coach
who can win. Not saying our present coach can't win, but don't say we can't get a coach that can win. We can get anyone out there   if the price is right.
And I don't care what anyone says whether or not we win is on the coaches shoulders. Look what Alabama did after Bear Bryant left until they hired Saban & what they have done since.

You're an idiot. Gene Stallings went 71-16-1 and won a National Championship at Alabama ('90-96).
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PorkSoda

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #201 on: April 13, 2018, 03:53:33 pm »

You're an idiot. Gene Stallings went 71-16-1 and won a National Championship at Alabama ('90-96).
and mike shula went 26Ė23

coaches are over rated.  bama should have just gone to CUSA instead of hiring saban
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #202 on: April 13, 2018, 04:07:05 pm »

and mike shula went 26Ė23

coaches are over rated.  bama should have just gone to CUSA instead of hiring saban

The "we might as well just join the C-USA/Sun Belt" argument holds no water. The Big 12 is still a P5 conference.
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LRRandy

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #203 on: April 13, 2018, 05:31:41 pm »

So what you are saying s if we are not winning where we are just go down to another conference where we an win. I say stay where we are and get a coach
who can win. Not saying our present coach can't win, but don't say we can't get a coach that can win. We can get anyone out there   if the price is right.
And I don't care what anyone says whether or not we win is on the coaches shoulders. Look what Alabama did after Bear Bryant left until they hired Saban & what they have done since.
I wouldn't say that is true
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Mike Irwin

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #204 on: April 13, 2018, 05:52:38 pm »

The condescension is definitely palpable.  However, being old school, I believe the best way to be respected, is to dig in and do something respectable.  Slinking off to the Big whatever would not serve us well at all.
Maybe if Arkansas had more success the attitudes would change but I doubt it. In 92 at the Hogs' first SEC hoops tournament in Birmingham I got a good dose of SEC hospitality. I pulled up to the hotel across the street from the arena and some jerk who had seen my license plate walked up and starting giving me crap about how Arkansas did not belong in the league and all we were bringing to the table was Bill Clinton.

Right. Arkansas had just won the regular season championship, beat Kentucky 105-88 in Rupp and had gone to the Elite Eight and the Final Four the previous two years. The guy was a total dumba$$.
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TebowHater

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #205 on: April 13, 2018, 05:57:15 pm »

Bielema ran our program so far into the ground that now people even question if anyone can win here.

We went from winning 8 games a year with Houston Nutt and being able to compete with any team including beating the #1 team in his final game, to winning 10+ games a year with Petrino...

and now people legitimately believe that this is a program you can't win at. Though I personally don't think Morris is the guy, boy do we need him to be successful to help free us from that reputation because that is a bad hole to get trapped in
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PorkSoda

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #206 on: April 13, 2018, 06:47:02 pm »

The "we might as well just join the C-USA/Sun Belt" argument holds no water. The Big 12 is still a P5 conference.
same difference as far as im concerned.  big 12 is hardly a "power" conference.
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wachhog

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #207 on: April 13, 2018, 07:45:23 pm »

Petrino recently proved it can be done here. I donít buy that crap.
Petrine also proved Arkansas has been a fool. Twice. The top doesnít  believe in survival of the fittest.
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wachhog

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #208 on: April 13, 2018, 07:54:45 pm »

I don't know if Morris will have success here (I think he will eventually) but Im not at all convinced Luke is any better.
Luke lost to our worst team of the SEC era. That same team that set a record for 20 point blowout losses.

I think Arkansas is one of those programs that just will have to do extraordinary things to get noticed and NOT choke in big games at home. Petino had Arkansas in the top 5 before he screwed the pooch. Pawl,and others,  must not remember that. He didn't even have to cheat.

The only thing I disagree with is who screwed the pooch.!
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wachhog

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #209 on: April 13, 2018, 08:04:26 pm »

Friend of mine ran into PF in Orlando. Said he was very nice and added if Petrino were the coach in 2014 we might have played for a NC.

He is paid to piss people off, but he's probably a pretty nice guy.
That (2014) hurts. Even now. If we cared about athletics, we were  stupid. Canít put it any other way. What hurts worse was the Long/Bielema bandwagon. HOGVILLE was so quick to jump on. And so reluctant to crawl off.
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ALLVOL

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #210 on: April 13, 2018, 08:43:25 pm »

You're an idiot. Gene Stallings went 71-16-1 and won a National Championship at Alabama ('90-96).
How did bammer do between Stallings and Saban? Dumbose, Franchione, Shula and Price.... That was a helluva run.
Arkansas is an SEC team, period and I hope no one with any power to change that ever listens to the chicken Littles who want to run away.
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ALLVOL

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #211 on: April 13, 2018, 08:47:18 pm »

Maybe if Arkansas had more success the attitudes would change but I doubt it. In 92 at the Hogs' first SEC hoops tournament in Birmingham I got a good dose of SEC hospitality. I pulled up to the hotel across the street from the arena and some jerk who had seen my license plate walked up and starting giving me crap about how Arkansas did not belong in the league and all we were bringing to the table was Bill Clinton.

Right. Arkansas had just won the regular season championship, beat Kentucky 105-88 in Rupp and had gone to the Elite Eight and the Final Four the previous two years. The guy was a total dumba$$.
Mike Irwin have you ever been a visiting fan TO Arkansas? I admit most are friendly but just like every school there are idiots too.
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rtr

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #212 on: April 13, 2018, 08:54:26 pm »

Bielema ran our program so far into the ground that now people even question if anyone can win here.

We went from winning 8 games a year with Houston Nutt and being able to compete with any team including beating the #1 team in his final game, to winning 10+ games a year with Petrino...

and now people legitimately believe that this is a program you can't win at. Though I personally don't think Morris is the guy, boy do we need him to be successful to help free us from that reputation because that is a bad hole to get trapped in
So true. Mutt and Jeff should not rob us of our pride and self esteem.
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Arazorbackguy1

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Gillihan says Morris>Luke
« Reply #213 on: April 13, 2018, 09:41:27 pm »

There ya go!
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #214 on: April 13, 2018, 11:03:43 pm »

   The playoff has changed college football forever. Arkansas no longer needs the SEC.  If it wasn't for all these GoR contracts. We would most likely see more movement all across the country.  When the NCAA ruled that the Big 12 could have a championship game with less than 12 members. That was another game changer.  That allows a smaller more regional league to have access to the playoff. That's why a new SWC could thrive in todays climate. 
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blunts4mallett

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #215 on: April 14, 2018, 12:16:02 am »

Petrine also proved Arkansas has been a fool. Twice. The top doesnít  believe in survival of the fittest.

It's not our fault the guy loved pork(ing).

That (2014) hurts. Even now. If we cared about athletics, we were  stupid. Canít put it any other way. What hurts worse was the Long/Bielema bandwagon. HOGVILLE was so quick to jump on. And so reluctant to crawl off.

Whoa whoa whoa...not everyone. Don't forget about us darksiders now. We were nearly run off the site.
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LZH

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #216 on: April 14, 2018, 08:32:33 am »

It is, but it originated during the days when commanders communicated with troops via bugle call.  It's what was heard when a general said "Sound the retreat". I learn something new every day.   

There's a Vietnam veteran who walks out to Indian Rocks Beach at sunset and plays "Taps" on his bugle.......every single evening. Too cool.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #217 on: April 14, 2018, 12:06:18 pm »

same difference as far as im concerned.  big 12 is hardly a "power" conference.

Doesn't matter what your concern is or isn't. The Big 12 has sent a team to the playoff 2 times since it came to be. I personally think Arkansas would have a better shot at making the playoff from the Big 12 than from the SEC.

At the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about?
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #218 on: April 14, 2018, 03:51:32 pm »

Bielema ran our program so far into the ground that now people even question if anyone can win here.

We went from winning 8 games a year with Houston Nutt and being able to compete with any team including beating the #1 team in his final game, to winning 10+ games a year with Petrino...

and now people legitimately believe that this is a program you can't win at. Though I personally don't think Morris is the guy, boy do we need him to be successful to help free us from that reputation because that is a bad hole to get trapped in

Bielema and Long have a big following of Arkansas sucks on here! They have damaged the program I am not sure we can dig out in  a year or two. Might take some time.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #219 on: April 14, 2018, 05:50:52 pm »

Doesn't matter what your concern is or isn't. The Big 12 has sent a team to the playoff 2 times since it came to be. I personally think Arkansas would have a better shot at making the playoff from the Big 12 than from the SEC.

At the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about?

Havenít you heard?  Itís about the money, there are a lot of Arkansas fans totally fine with being a rent-a-win team for the blue bloods of the SEC.

Iím going to give it another five years at most but if the PTB canít figure out how to win in the SEC iíll be hollowing just as loudly as I did about Long and Bielema.  At some point Arkansas should put themselves in a position to win.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #220 on: April 15, 2018, 12:29:53 am »

Bielema ran our program so far into the ground that now people even question if anyone can win here.

We went from winning 8 games a year with Houston Nutt and being able to compete with any team including beating the #1 team in his final game, to winning 10+ games a year with Petrino...

and now people legitimately believe that this is a program you can't win at. Though I personally don't think Morris is the guy, boy do we need him to be successful to help free us from that reputation because that is a bad hole to get trapped in

That is a fair assessment. Solid post

As for Finebaum, hes probably right. But as TebowHater pointed out, we need Morris to succeed or we could be in for decades of drought
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #221 on: April 15, 2018, 08:18:40 am »

Bielema ran our program so far into the ground that now people even question if anyone can win here.

We went from winning 8 games a year with Houston Nutt and being able to compete with any team including beating the #1 team in his final game, to winning 10+ games a year with Petrino...

and now people legitimately believe that this is a program you can't win at. Though I personally don't think Morris is the guy, boy do we need him to be successful to help free us from that reputation because that is a bad hole to get trapped in

I think that saying that our program has been ran into the ground is a bit of an overstatement and certainly any comparison involving HDN and his record here is an overstatement as well. Just look at the average annual records of our HC's compared to the principal SEC members of our division since 1998, not including the addition of A&M.

               ARK            ALA            MISS             MSU             LSU            AUB
HDN       7.5-4.9        7.0-5.4        6.0-5.9         5.1-6.8         8.9-3.7       8.3-4.1
PET       8.5-4.3       12.0-1.5        6.0-6.5         6.5-6.3        10.3-3.0      8.8-4.3
JLS        4.0-8.0       13.0-1.0        7.0-6.0         8.0-5.0        10.0-3.0      3.0-9.0
BB         5.8-6.8       12.8-1.4        7.6-4.4         8.2-4.8         8.8-3.8       9.0-4.4

As you can see, the SEC West during HDN's tenure wasn't what the SEC West is today. As for Bielema, even if he had won 2 more games on average each year and averaged an 8-5 record, I suspect that at the end of his 5 year term, people would still have been calling for his head.

And while it is true that to his credit, Bielema has produced a lot of NFL Draftees, that has not equated to more wins. It is also true that though he has improved the quality of our recruiting over the Petrino/Smith/HDN eras, our recruiting hasn't kept pace with the increases in talent gained by other SEC West schools. On top of that, he and his staff made some poor in-game decisions that cost us games.

Now all of that being said, I still don't think that the program has been driven into the ground or that it will take years upon years to return to winning at a higher level. Whether Morris is the guy to make that happen or not, remains to be seen.
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rtr

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #222 on: April 15, 2018, 09:12:24 am »

I think that saying that our program has been ran into the ground is a bit of an overstatement and certainly any comparison involving HDN and his record here is an overstatement as well. Just look at the average annual records of our HC's compared to the principal SEC members of our division since 1998, not including the addition of A&M.

               ARK            ALA            MISS             MSU             LSU            AUB
HDN       7.5-4.9        7.0-5.4        6.0-5.9         5.1-6.8         8.9-3.7       8.3-4.1
PET       8.5-4.3       12.0-1.5        6.0-6.5         6.5-6.3        10.3-3.0      8.8-4.3
JLS        4.0-8.0       13.0-1.0        7.0-6.0         8.0-5.0        10.0-3.0      3.0-9.0
BB         5.8-6.8       12.8-1.4        7.6-4.4         8.2-4.8         8.8-3.8       9.0-4.4

As you can see, the SEC West during HDN's tenure wasn't what the SEC West is today. As for Bielema, even if he had won 2 more games on average each year and averaged an 8-5 record, I suspect that at the end of his 5 year term, people would still have been calling for his head.

And while it is true that to his credit, Bielema has produced a lot of NFL Draftees, that has not equated to more wins. It is also true that though he has improved the quality of our recruiting over the Petrino/Smith/HDN eras, our recruiting hasn't kept pace with the increases in talent gained by other SEC West schools. On top of that, he and his staff made some poor in-game decisions that cost us games.

Now all of that being said, I still don't think that the program has been driven into the ground or that it will take years upon years to return to winning at a higher level. Whether Morris is the guy to make that happen or not, remains to be seen.
I really don't agree, people make the mistake at looking at ranking and making their judgment solely on this.  The question is did the coach recruit the right athlete (talking athletic ability only) to give himself and his system the best chance of winning. I do not believe this has been the case for some time.  We look a step slower than every SEC team we have played lately.  Unless, you believe that speed had been trained out of them.  SEC west outside of Bama has not been great the last 2 seasons. The East is on the rise again.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #223 on: April 15, 2018, 09:33:49 am »

I really don't agree, people make the mistake at looking at ranking and making their judgment solely on this.  The question is did the coach recruit the right athlete (talking athletic ability only) to give himself and his system the best chance of winning. I do not believe this has been the case for some time.  We look a step slower than every SEC team we have played lately.  Unless, you believe that speed had been trained out of them.  SEC west outside of Bama has not been great the last 2 seasons. The East is on the rise again.

My assertion isn't based on recruiting rankings but the talent that the NFL apparently recognizes in the players that were drafted. As for your point about speed, I don't necessarily disagree though all positions are not absent of speed. A team can appear to be more slow at times because of the philosophy and scheme that is employed (as well as quality of coaching) and players being out of position to make a play.

My guess is that after the coming season (if not before) most everyone will proclaim that Morris' first year team is significantly faster than the 2017 version of the Hogs. Some of that will be due to training methodology and weight loss at the more visible positions, but some of that will be due to the change in philosophy and coaching on both sides of the ball.
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rtr

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #224 on: April 15, 2018, 10:17:23 am »

My assertion isn't based on recruiting rankings but the talent that the NFL apparently recognizes in the players that were drafted. As for your point about speed, I don't necessarily disagree though all positions are not absent of speed. A team can appear to be more slow at times because of the philosophy and scheme that is employed (as well as quality of coaching) and players being out of position to make a play.

My guess is that after the coming season (if not before) most everyone will proclaim that Morris' first year team is significantly faster than the 2017 version of the Hogs. Some of that will be due to training methodology and weight loss at the more visible positions, but some of that will be due to the change in philosophy and coaching on both sides of the ball.
No doubt if a player understands what he is supposed to do on the field.  He will look faster due to faster reaction time.
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #225 on: April 15, 2018, 09:58:49 pm »

I get the attraction of the SEC. More money. Stronger conference. Better attendance. Better TV exposure. But damn I hate this snotty league. Twenty five years in the SEC and Arkansas is still treated like an outsider. It's not just Finebaum. Fans of other teams dismiss Arkansas. The media does it. The league office does it.

I wish the Big 12 would get its act together. Tell Texas they are going to have to be a part of the league, not run it. Drop the Longhorn Network and convert it to the Big 12 Network. Arkansas would be a better fit there. It would be easier for fans to travel. Plus, with the exception of the Longhorns, most of those places were fairly friendly toward our fans in the SWC days.

Maybe it's just me but from the first year in 92  I've always had the impression that the SEC looks down its nose at Arkansas.

Regardless of the conference you play in you get what you earn. I agree the Big12 would be better for the fans though. We'd win more and have a higher ceiling on the whole. Never going to happen given the SEC money, and probably shouldn't. The move to the SEC was a financial move. Was never about winning or making fans happy.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Finebaum says Luke > Morris
« Reply #226 on: April 17, 2018, 11:01:56 pm »

Regardless of the conference you play in you get what you earn. I agree the Big12 would be better for the fans though. We'd win more and have a higher ceiling on the whole. Never going to happen given the SEC money, and probably shouldn't. The move to the SEC was a financial move. Was never about winning or making fans happy.

Sadly you are probably right. But wouldn't winning and success lead to an increase in fan related revenue, thus offset the cost of leaving the SEC? Then you get to win AND have money. Crazy, I know.
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