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Author Topic: Return to Grass?  (Read 7020 times)

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GuvHog

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2018, 11:19:36 am »

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised that Morris would prefer grass. But guess he has his reasons, maybe just a little "traditional" twist. I always enjoy stories of teams that let their grass grow taller when playing fast opponents. I've heard this enough times to believe it actually works. However, with us, won't WE usually be the faster team (or at least that's the plan)?

I didn't know about the small black rubber-bits issue (inhaling it), but it makes sense. Back in my day, I remember all the times I got grass, dirt and mud in my mouth. At least all that is natural and organic, not made from recycled tires. My oldest son played football his freshman year of high school, on a new fake-turf field…it did make for some interesting laundry sessions, with all that black debris everywhere.

Morris has done most of his coaching in Milder climates where a grass field is much easier to maintain late in the season so it's not surprising to me that he prefers a Grass surface. I seriously doubt they go back to a grass surface in DWRRS because that far north and in the mountains, a Grass surface is difficult to maintain late in the season.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 04:24:59 pm by GuvHog »
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2018, 11:48:15 am »

Morris as done most of his coaching in Milder climates where a grass field is much easier to maintain late in the season so it's not surprising to me that he prefers a Grass surface. I seriously doubt that go back to a grass surface in DWRRS because that far north and in the mountains, a Grass surface is difficult to maintain late in the season.

But SMU's stadium has artificial turf. Don't know about Clemson's. I guess that doesn't change his preference though. I saw enough November and December games in Razorback Stadium, but I can't remember what the field looked like pre-Petrino/post-old "astroturf."

Man, Grass Guy is really bringing the wood in his post from the previous page.
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tusked

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2018, 11:49:27 am »


Love it.  If you can keep grass green in Knoxville you can keep grass green in Fayetteville.
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PorkRinds

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2018, 12:22:58 pm »

My goal here is to provide facts regarding the topic at hand. Buckle up...

Feasibility of switching to natural grass before the start of the season
When the field was converted to synthetic turf during Petrino's second season, steps were taken to allow for easy conversion back to natural grass when the time came. For those of you unfamiliar with what is actually under high-end natural grass sports field, follow the link: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/2004%20USGA%20Recommendations%20For%20a%20Method%20of%20Putting%20Green%20Cons.pdf
To install the synthetic turf, a layer of the sand was removed to a given depth and a plastic 'barrier' was installed to prevent any contamination of the sand when the synthetic turf was installed. No drainage under the natural grass was taken out or altered during the installation of the synthetic turf. To install natural grass back in the stadium, everything must be removed down to the plastic barrier on top of the sand, remove the plastic, add sand to a desired depth, grade, and install the grass.

While I am on the subject of the soil underneath the field, it must be noted that mud is no item of concern for modern natural grass fields due to sand being the underlying soil (see USGA link above). Sand allows for rapid drainage and does not turn into mud.

Cost differences
Over the long-term, synthetic turf fields actually cost more than natural grass fields. This is due to the large costs associated with replacing synthetic turf fields. There is also a great misconception that synthetic turf fields require little or no maintenance compared to natural grass, which is not true. The link here: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/NaturalGrassFields.pdf
outlines differences in the cost of installation and maintenance between the two surfaces.

Safety and player preference
Synthetic surfaces are more firm than natural grass, leading to more concussions and joint injuries in synthetic turf. The Concussion Federation released an article on the topic of concussions and synthetic turf : https://concussionfoundation.org/sites/default/files/Learning%20Center/The%20Role%20of%20Synthetic%20Turf%20in%20Concussion_0.pdf
Here is a paper that reported the rate of ACL injuries is 1.39 times greater on synthetic turf compared to natural grass: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0363546512442336
Hopefully we can all agree that synthetic turf gets hotter than natural grass, but let me know if you need me to support that argument with research...
In general, players prefer to play on natural grass. The 2010 NFLPA playing surfaces opinion survey indicated that 69.4% of players preferred to play on natural grass, while only 14.3% preferred playing on synthetic turf. The entire study can be found here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57fe8750d482e926d718f65a/t/593ed0a83e00be288f8275f6/1497288875429/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

BTW Blake Anderson no longer works at the U of A...he has taken a job as a fertilizer salesman in the St. Louis area.

So you must be the new grass guy. Welcome!
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HamIAm

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twistitup

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2018, 12:37:45 pm »

turn a researcher loose and everything can cause cancer

Google it....there are many studies out there.

Cancer is not a conspiracy...
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HF#1

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2018, 12:53:05 pm »

Cancer is not a conspiracy...

The cure for it is. But that's for a different forum.
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twistitup

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2018, 12:55:59 pm »

The cure for it is. But that's for a different forum.

You heard that too? Don't tell anybody, but I heard the answer is right in front of us and just don't know it:

http://honestcooking.com/frito-crusted-chicken-tenders-spicy-peach-sauce/

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DeltaBoy

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2018, 01:16:41 pm »

My goal here is to provide facts regarding the topic at hand. Buckle up...

Feasibility of switching to natural grass before the start of the season
When the field was converted to synthetic turf during Petrino's second season, steps were taken to allow for easy conversion back to natural grass when the time came. For those of you unfamiliar with what is actually under high-end natural grass sports field, follow the link: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/2004%20USGA%20Recommendations%20For%20a%20Method%20of%20Putting%20Green%20Cons.pdf
To install the synthetic turf, a layer of the sand was removed to a given depth and a plastic 'barrier' was installed to prevent any contamination of the sand when the synthetic turf was installed. No drainage under the natural grass was taken out or altered during the installation of the synthetic turf. To install natural grass back in the stadium, everything must be removed down to the plastic barrier on top of the sand, remove the plastic, add sand to a desired depth, grade, and install the grass.

While I am on the subject of the soil underneath the field, it must be noted that mud is no item of concern for modern natural grass fields due to sand being the underlying soil (see USGA link above). Sand allows for rapid drainage and does not turn into mud.

Cost differences
Over the long-term, synthetic turf fields actually cost more than natural grass fields. This is due to the large costs associated with replacing synthetic turf fields. There is also a great misconception that synthetic turf fields require little or no maintenance compared to natural grass, which is not true. The link here: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/NaturalGrassFields.pdf
outlines differences in the cost of installation and maintenance between the two surfaces.

Safety and player preference
Synthetic surfaces are more firm than natural grass, leading to more concussions and joint injuries in synthetic turf. The Concussion Federation released an article on the topic of concussions and synthetic turf : https://concussionfoundation.org/sites/default/files/Learning%20Center/The%20Role%20of%20Synthetic%20Turf%20in%20Concussion_0.pdf
Here is a paper that reported the rate of ACL injuries is 1.39 times greater on synthetic turf compared to natural grass: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0363546512442336
Hopefully we can all agree that synthetic turf gets hotter than natural grass, but let me know if you need me to support that argument with research...
In general, players prefer to play on natural grass. The 2010 NFLPA playing surfaces opinion survey indicated that 69.4% of players preferred to play on natural grass, while only 14.3% preferred playing on synthetic turf. The entire study can be found here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57fe8750d482e926d718f65a/t/593ed0a83e00be288f8275f6/1497288875429/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

BTW Blake Anderson no longer works at the U of A...he has taken a job as a fertilizer salesman in the St. Louis area.

Great information!
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HogInThaGrove

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2018, 01:28:55 pm »

My goal here is to provide facts regarding the topic at hand. Buckle up...

Feasibility of switching to natural grass before the start of the season
When the field was converted to synthetic turf during Petrino's second season, steps were taken to allow for easy conversion back to natural grass when the time came. For those of you unfamiliar with what is actually under high-end natural grass sports field, follow the link: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/2004%20USGA%20Recommendations%20For%20a%20Method%20of%20Putting%20Green%20Cons.pdf
To install the synthetic turf, a layer of the sand was removed to a given depth and a plastic 'barrier' was installed to prevent any contamination of the sand when the synthetic turf was installed. No drainage under the natural grass was taken out or altered during the installation of the synthetic turf. To install natural grass back in the stadium, everything must be removed down to the plastic barrier on top of the sand, remove the plastic, add sand to a desired depth, grade, and install the grass.

While I am on the subject of the soil underneath the field, it must be noted that mud is no item of concern for modern natural grass fields due to sand being the underlying soil (see USGA link above). Sand allows for rapid drainage and does not turn into mud.

Cost differences
Over the long-term, synthetic turf fields actually cost more than natural grass fields. This is due to the large costs associated with replacing synthetic turf fields. There is also a great misconception that synthetic turf fields require little or no maintenance compared to natural grass, which is not true. The link here: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/NaturalGrassFields.pdf
outlines differences in the cost of installation and maintenance between the two surfaces.

Safety and player preference
Synthetic surfaces are more firm than natural grass, leading to more concussions and joint injuries in synthetic turf. The Concussion Federation released an article on the topic of concussions and synthetic turf : https://concussionfoundation.org/sites/default/files/Learning%20Center/The%20Role%20of%20Synthetic%20Turf%20in%20Concussion_0.pdf
Here is a paper that reported the rate of ACL injuries is 1.39 times greater on synthetic turf compared to natural grass: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0363546512442336
Hopefully we can all agree that synthetic turf gets hotter than natural grass, but let me know if you need me to support that argument with research...
In general, players prefer to play on natural grass. The 2010 NFLPA playing surfaces opinion survey indicated that 69.4% of players preferred to play on natural grass, while only 14.3% preferred playing on synthetic turf. The entire study can be found here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57fe8750d482e926d718f65a/t/593ed0a83e00be288f8275f6/1497288875429/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

BTW Blake Anderson no longer works at the U of A...he has taken a job as a fertilizer salesman in the St. Louis area.

Yes, partially, but the high cost associated with installation of the turf is also mostly due to the underneath work that has to be done with dirt work, drainage, etc.  Once that is done it is only maintained as when a new surface is put down.  I strongly doubt they would re-do the entire thing. 

As opinions go, I like the clean look of the turf and having worked on my own softball field in NWA, I'm aware of all the work it takes to get that booger green and to keep it green.  But that's all personal preference.  Whatever coach wants I think he should have as long as he can justify why and how it would make us better. 
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woodrow hog call

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2018, 01:33:23 pm »

My goal here is to provide facts regarding the topic at hand. Buckle up...

Feasibility of switching to natural grass before the start of the season
When the field was converted to synthetic turf during Petrino's second season, steps were taken to allow for easy conversion back to natural grass when the time came. For those of you unfamiliar with what is actually under high-end natural grass sports field, follow the link: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/2004%20USGA%20Recommendations%20For%20a%20Method%20of%20Putting%20Green%20Cons.pdf
To install the synthetic turf, a layer of the sand was removed to a given depth and a plastic 'barrier' was installed to prevent any contamination of the sand when the synthetic turf was installed. No drainage under the natural grass was taken out or altered during the installation of the synthetic turf. To install natural grass back in the stadium, everything must be removed down to the plastic barrier on top of the sand, remove the plastic, add sand to a desired depth, grade, and install the grass.

While I am on the subject of the soil underneath the field, it must be noted that mud is no item of concern for modern natural grass fields due to sand being the underlying soil (see USGA link above). Sand allows for rapid drainage and does not turn into mud.

Cost differences
Over the long-term, synthetic turf fields actually cost more than natural grass fields. This is due to the large costs associated with replacing synthetic turf fields. There is also a great misconception that synthetic turf fields require little or no maintenance compared to natural grass, which is not true. The link here: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/NaturalGrassFields.pdf
outlines differences in the cost of installation and maintenance between the two surfaces.

Safety and player preference
Synthetic surfaces are more firm than natural grass, leading to more concussions and joint injuries in synthetic turf. The Concussion Federation released an article on the topic of concussions and synthetic turf : https://concussionfoundation.org/sites/default/files/Learning%20Center/The%20Role%20of%20Synthetic%20Turf%20in%20Concussion_0.pdf
Here is a paper that reported the rate of ACL injuries is 1.39 times greater on synthetic turf compared to natural grass: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0363546512442336
Hopefully we can all agree that synthetic turf gets hotter than natural grass, but let me know if you need me to support that argument with research...
In general, players prefer to play on natural grass. The 2010 NFLPA playing surfaces opinion survey indicated that 69.4% of players preferred to play on natural grass, while only 14.3% preferred playing on synthetic turf. The entire study can be found here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57fe8750d482e926d718f65a/t/593ed0a83e00be288f8275f6/1497288875429/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

BTW Blake Anderson no longer works at the U of A...he has taken a job as a fertilizer salesman in the St. Louis area.


Thanks for setting the record(and me) straight. Good information.
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lahhog

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prattville pig

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2018, 01:46:09 pm »

when I retire I'm going to need a new grass guy
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justmakeit2thebcs

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2018, 02:03:32 pm »

turn a researcher loose and everything can cause cancer
Especially the pesticides and other chemicals applied to grass.
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woodhog14

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2018, 02:46:25 pm »

But SMU's stadium has artificial turf. Don't know about Clemson's. I guess that doesn't change his preference though. I saw enough November and December games in Razorback Stadium, but I can't remember what the field looked like pre-Petrino/post-old "astroturf."

Man, Grass Guy is really bringing the wood in his post from the previous page.
Clemson has grass.
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liljo

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2018, 03:07:32 pm »

 
when I retire I'm going to need a new grass guy
;D
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cityhog

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2018, 03:32:11 pm »

If it were up to the Arkansas state legislature, the UA would say we want grass and the legislature would take 4 years to make it happen.
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HogPharmer

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2018, 03:38:37 pm »

If it were up to the Arkansas state legislature, the UA would say we want grass and the legislature would take 4 years to make it happen.

+1
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2018, 05:06:44 pm »

So you must be the new grass guy. Welcome!

LOL. Yeah, way to go grassguy. Joins Hogville and it takes the grass/turf topic to post. Well done!

I wonder if players have a strong feeling. Of course they'd like the safety aspects of grass, but does that get offset with the speed and traction of artificial turf? Does anyone remember the stories about how brutal old turf could be? Players talked about how it was like landing on concrete that just happened to have some carpet on it.
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WJBilly

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2018, 05:18:05 pm »

Love it.  If you can keep grass green in Knoxville you can keep grass green in Fayetteville.
;)
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2018, 05:24:20 pm »


Thanks for setting the record(and me) straight. Good information.

 It was good information. I doubt the link from the USGA is 100% relevant since we are talking about a football field and not a golf course and especially not a green. Also there are many variables to consider such as climate, type of grass for the geographic area, time of year for the grass to look and be strong, etc.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2018, 05:32:16 pm »

Love it.  If you can keep grass green in Knoxville you can keep grass green in Fayetteville.

They’ve had some issues with theirs. Just like we did when we had grass.
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2018, 05:37:42 pm »

If it were up to the Arkansas state legislature, the UA would say we want grass and the legislature would take 4 years to make it happen.

Boom
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grassguy

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2018, 05:39:19 pm »

It was good information. I doubt the link from the USGA is 100% relevant since we are talking about a football field and not a golf course and especially not a green. Also there are many variables to consider such as climate, type of grass for the geographic area, time of year for the grass to look and be strong, etc.

Everything to do with the construction of a USGA putting green rootzone is pretty spot on when building a sports field on sand. USGA calls for 12 inches of sand, but the natural grass field at RRS had 15 inches of sand which allowed for more drianage. Of course the grass selection would be different on a putting green compared to a football field. We would likely install either ‘Latitude 36’ Bermudagrass or ‘Northbridge’ Bermudagrass, both of which have been bred out of Oklahoma State for winter-hardiness.
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HogPharmer

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2018, 05:44:29 pm »

Everything to do with the construction of a USGA putting green rootzone is pretty spot on when building a sports field on sand. USGA calls for 12 inches of sand, but the natural grass field at RRS had 15 inches of sand which allowed for more drianage. Of course the grass selection would be different on a putting green compared to a football field. We would likely install either ‘Latitude 36’ Bermudagrass or ‘Northbridge’ Bermudagrass, both of which have been bred out of Oklahoma State for winter-hardiness.

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longtimeHogfan

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2018, 05:47:16 pm »


....there are many studies out there.

I'd like to see a study to see if there's anything left in the universe that, if given in sufficient quantities, wouldn't cause cancer in laboratory rats.   
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2018, 06:49:05 pm »

I have never heard of the turf causing lung issues, but I do know that you are much less likely to tear an ACL on grass since it has much more give and will tear away when turf will not.

With the kicking issues the razorbacks have had of late the idea of having to kick on a muddy grass surface deeply frightens me.

There are a few articles on it causing cancer and other issues.  We had a problem around here with some thinking that it was causing serious infection.

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Karma

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2018, 07:25:05 pm »

Dustin Thomas made a return to grass and was kicked off the basketball team.
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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2018, 07:46:28 pm »

My goal here is to provide facts regarding the topic at hand. Buckle up...

Feasibility of switching to natural grass before the start of the season
When the field was converted to synthetic turf during Petrino's second season, steps were taken to allow for easy conversion back to natural grass when the time came. For those of you unfamiliar with what is actually under high-end natural grass sports field, follow the link: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/2004%20USGA%20Recommendations%20For%20a%20Method%20of%20Putting%20Green%20Cons.pdf
To install the synthetic turf, a layer of the sand was removed to a given depth and a plastic 'barrier' was installed to prevent any contamination of the sand when the synthetic turf was installed. No drainage under the natural grass was taken out or altered during the installation of the synthetic turf. To install natural grass back in the stadium, everything must be removed down to the plastic barrier on top of the sand, remove the plastic, add sand to a desired depth, grade, and install the grass.

While I am on the subject of the soil underneath the field, it must be noted that mud is no item of concern for modern natural grass fields due to sand being the underlying soil (see USGA link above). Sand allows for rapid drainage and does not turn into mud.

Cost differences
Over the long-term, synthetic turf fields actually cost more than natural grass fields. This is due to the large costs associated with replacing synthetic turf fields. There is also a great misconception that synthetic turf fields require little or no maintenance compared to natural grass, which is not true. The link here: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/STMA_Bulletins/NaturalGrassFields.pdf
outlines differences in the cost of installation and maintenance between the two surfaces.

Safety and player preference
Synthetic surfaces are more firm than natural grass, leading to more concussions and joint injuries in synthetic turf. The Concussion Federation released an article on the topic of concussions and synthetic turf : https://concussionfoundation.org/sites/default/files/Learning%20Center/The%20Role%20of%20Synthetic%20Turf%20in%20Concussion_0.pdf
Here is a paper that reported the rate of ACL injuries is 1.39 times greater on synthetic turf compared to natural grass: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0363546512442336
Hopefully we can all agree that synthetic turf gets hotter than natural grass, but let me know if you need me to support that argument with research...
In general, players prefer to play on natural grass. The 2010 NFLPA playing surfaces opinion survey indicated that 69.4% of players preferred to play on natural grass, while only 14.3% preferred playing on synthetic turf. The entire study can be found here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57fe8750d482e926d718f65a/t/593ed0a83e00be288f8275f6/1497288875429/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

BTW Blake Anderson no longer works at the U of A...he has taken a job as a fertilizer salesman in the St. Louis area.
And some here still doubt Morris... smfh... THIS IS THE GD GRASSGUY, and he just dropped the fire post-of-the-year and THREAD'D this beeetch. My GOD, Grassguy!! My new favorite gd grassguy on the planet! I love how u dropped the bit about Blake Anderson LMAO!

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fieldturf

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2018, 08:46:09 pm »

Hope they get a 500 series John Deere tractor to maintain field.  Not a zero turn, hate a zero turn.  Wonder if there going to grow hedges, if they do need to get em some steel hedge trimmers......
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Rudy Baylor

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2018, 09:10:37 pm »

Seems like you are assuming a linear response and that probably isn't the case. If it's a non-linear response, then faster players could get a greater speed boost out of the turf than slower players would.

For example, say it boosted everybody's speed by 2%. Well, somebody going 10 mph would then be able to go 10.2 mph on turf, while somebody going 20 mph would be boosted up to 20.4 mph. Convert that to feed per second, and the faster player would gain an additional ~4 inches per second over the slower player.

Of course, I'm pulling that 2% from where the sun doesn't shine (the polar regions in the winter time...) but that's a simple way to show how a surface could in fact benefit a faster team more than it would benefit a slower team despite the fact that both teams are playing on the same surface.

obviously you've never played any sports at all
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ChicoHog

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2018, 09:21:01 pm »

LOL. Yeah, way to go grassguy. Joins Hogville and it takes the grass/turf topic to post. Well done!

I wonder if players have a strong feeling. Of course they'd like the safety aspects of grass, but does that get offset with the speed and traction of artificial turf? Does anyone remember the stories about how brutal old turf could be? Players talked about how it was like landing on concrete that just happened to have some carpet on it.
Back in the early 80s our intramural flag football team played the championship game (and won!) at Razorback stadium.  It was pretty cool being out there playing but it was very hard.  Easy to run and cut but hard to fall down on. 
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onebadrubi

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2018, 09:56:35 pm »

You got to buy mowers, and then have real turf management guys.  I don't even want to think about what TrueGreen would charge to treat it.  Then you have critters to deal with as well.  Prairie dogs, ground hogs, moles, grubs.  What if fire ants become a problem.  Sure everyone wants to go back to grass until TJ breaks off a big run only to trip over an ant hill and get swarmed.

WE have a huge turf management program man. 
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Pork Twain

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #83 on: April 06, 2018, 09:59:13 pm »

Google it....there are many studies out there.

Cancer is not a conspiracy...
True but it is easier to name things that do "cause" cancer than it is things that don't "cause" cancer these days
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Amityvillehogger

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2018, 11:14:01 pm »

I love how u dropped the bit about Blake Anderson LMAO!

He was the guy at Baum, correct ? What did I miss.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2018, 12:08:34 am »

Everything to do with the construction of a USGA putting green rootzone is pretty spot on when building a sports field on sand. USGA calls for 12 inches of sand, but the natural grass field at RRS had 15 inches of sand which allowed for more drianage. Of course the grass selection would be different on a putting green compared to a football field. We would likely install either ‘Latitude 36’ Bermudagrass or ‘Northbridge’ Bermudagrass, both of which have been bred out of Oklahoma State for winter-hardiness.

Then I wonder why T Boone Pickens stadium at Okla St. has artificial turf...........
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Carl Lazlo

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2018, 04:41:36 am »

Then I wonder why T Boone Pickens stadium at Okla St. has artificial turf...........

Why does UCONN play on natural grass and Houston on fieldturf?  Because colleges get to choose what type of surface they play on regardless of location. 
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2018, 07:27:30 am »

Why does UCONN play on natural grass and Houston on fieldturf?  Because colleges get to choose what type of surface they play on regardless of location. 

My post was about the irony of OSU having developed grass yet they still play on turf. I bet Uconn plays on a different grass than what would be appropriate for Fayetteville’s climate.

I prefer grass myself bet I’ve seen a LOT of games where there were issues with grass during a game. Even the pros have issues sometimes. Usually it’s weather related but it happens. Either way I’m for whatever the coaches and players prefer.
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LZH

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2018, 07:33:37 am »

I wonder why grass?  Usually speed guys like turf. 

It could be a safety issue.  Turf can be softer, but those little black beads can get in your lungs and cause serious problems.

Too much grass can be bad for your lungs, too.
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Jim

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2018, 09:44:13 am »

Grassguy...

Curious as to the choosing of bermudagrass over a fescue or zoysia blend.  Is the BG easier to maintain and tougher under the physical demands of being in a football stadium?  I know done properly, fescue will give you a more lush, deeper green but my yard co has told me it's also more prone to disease and requires much more water to keep it healthy and vibrant.

Thanks for your input!!  Great info!
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2018, 10:01:27 am »

obviously you've never played any sports at all
Dude... dont tangle with Benny. He's 100 times the poster you are.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2018, 10:02:53 am »

Too much grass can be bad for your lungs, too.
naw, man. it KILLS cancer. just keep the cigs or cigars outta yo mouff.
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grassguy

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2018, 10:33:02 am »

Grassguy...

Curious as to the choosing of bermudagrass over a fescue or zoysia blend.  Is the BG easier to maintain and tougher under the physical demands of being in a football stadium?  I know done properly, fescue will give you a more lush, deeper green but my yard co has told me it's also more prone to disease and requires much more water to keep it healthy and vibrant.

Thanks for your input!!  Great info!

Yes, Bermudagrass is much more aggressive and traffic-tolerant compared to zoysia or tall fescue. Bermudagrass has above- (stolons) and below-ground (rhizomes) lateral-growing stems that allow it to recover much more rapidly than the others. Zoysia has the same growth-habit, but does not grow as rapidly as Bermudagrass. Tall fescue is a bunch-type grass, meaning that there is no lateral growth to aide in recovery. One must reseed worn areas with TF. A bunch-type grass that is commonly used on sports fields is perennial ryegrass, which is overseeded into an existing Bermudagrass stand in the fall and is green in the spring. What you see at Baum Stadium right now is perennial ryegrass. It has a very shiny-green color and is great for striping. We would likely see perennial ryegrass overseeded into the Bermudagrass at the football stadium to allow for color during the end of the season when the Bermudagrass is beginning to go dormant.

In short, while tall fescue and zoysia are superior turfgrasses for home lawns in NWA, they get nowhere close to Bermudagrass when it comes to dealing with the traffic that comes with football (or any sport). Bermudagrass tolerates a very low height of cut, so the field can be mowed down to as low as 1/2" (I know some of you are concerned with speed). There are currently no high-end sports fields that have tall fescue or zoysia. The Texas Rangers had zoysia on their infield very briefly, and was not popular among players because it was mowed higher than 2" and created a drastic transition in ground ball speed from the infield grass to the infield dirt.

ricepig

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2018, 10:40:45 am »

Yes, Bermudagrass is much more aggressive and traffic-tolerant compared to zoysia or tall fescue. Bermudagrass has above- (stolons) and below-ground (rhizomes) lateral-growing stems that allow it to recover much more rapidly than the others. Zoysia has the same growth-habit, but does not grow as rapidly as Bermudagrass. Tall fescue is a bunch-type grass, meaning that there is no lateral growth to aide in recovery. One must reseed worn areas with TF. A bunch-type grass that is commonly used on sports fields is perennial ryegrass, which is overseeded into an existing Bermudagrass stand in the fall and is green in the spring. What you see at Baum Stadium right now is perennial ryegrass. It has a very shiny-green color and is great for striping. We would likely see perennial ryegrass overseeded into the Bermudagrass at the football stadium to allow for color during the end of the season when the Bermudagrass is beginning to go dormant.

In short, while tall fescue and zoysia are superior turfgrasses for home lawns in NWA, they get nowhere close to Bermudagrass when it comes to dealing with the traffic that comes with football (or any sport). Bermudagrass tolerates a very low height of cut, so the field can be mowed down to as low as 1/2" (I know some of you are concerned with speed). There are currently no high-end sports fields that have tall fescue or zoysia. The Texas Rangers had zoysia on their infield very briefly, and was not popular among players because it was mowed higher than 2" and created a drastic transition in ground ball speed from the infield grass to the infield dirt.


Speaking of grass, how often do you have to replace it on a football field, some studies I've seen say it's about the same as the 10 year replacement of artificial. I realize that was probably based on major league baseball stadiums which have a lot more traffic. To switch to turf we'd have to do a bit of dirt work to put the slope back in for drainage.  Most turf fields are relatively flat, compared to the grass fields. Also, have we ever replaced the grass turf at Baum?
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ImHogginIt

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #94 on: April 07, 2018, 10:47:47 am »

Speaking of grass, how often do you have to replace it on a football field, some studies I've seen say it's about the same as the 10 year replacement of artificial. I realize that was probably based on major league baseball stadiums which have a lot more traffic. To switch to turf we'd have to do a bit of dirt work to put the slope back in for drainage.  Most turf fields are relatively flat, compared to the grass fields. Also, have we ever replaced the grass turf at Baum?

They should replace the infield grass at Baum with astroturf like UCA's infield  ;D
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grassguy

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2018, 10:57:35 am »

Speaking of grass, how often do you have to replace it on a football field, some studies I've seen say it's about the same as the 10 year replacement of artificial. I realize that was probably based on major league baseball stadiums which have a lot more traffic. To switch to turf we'd have to do a bit of dirt work to put the slope back in for drainage.  Most turf fields are relatively flat, compared to the grass fields. Also, have we ever replaced the grass turf at Baum?

The best answer I can give you is that it depends...mainly on event load. Many stadiums are not used solely for games now. Some actually host more non-game events than games. These can include concerts and corporate events, to name a few. Some MLB stadiums get new fields every year while others on a less-routine basis. The KC Royals just got a new field, and it had been about 10 years. That is the longest time between replacements I have heard of. Without knowing for a fact, I would say that many NFL stadiums get new fields every year. It is very common to see the grass between the hashmarks replaced during the season too. I am sure you have seen that on TV many times.

As for the dirt work, I refer you to my first post, which is the last one on page 1 of this thread. With it being a sand-based field and immaculate subsurface drainage, a slope would be unnoticeable (likely less than 1%).  Only a layer of sand would have to be filled in to the desired depth before the grass could be installed.

The infield and foul territory at Baum was replaced with 'Latitude 36' Bermudagrass prior to the 2015 season. The outfield is still 'Riviera' Bermudagrass, which is what the football field was before the switch to synthetic. The outfield is the same strand that was installed during the conversion from the old astroturf to natural grass in the early 2000s. There is a need for the outfield to be replaced in the very near future.
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Carl Lazlo

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2018, 11:08:37 am »

Speaking of grass, how often do you have to replace it on a football field, some studies I've seen say it's about the same as the 10 year replacement of artificial. I realize that was probably based on major league baseball stadiums which have a lot more traffic. To switch to turf we'd have to do a bit of dirt work to put the slope back in for drainage.  Most turf fields are relatively flat, compared to the grass fields. Also, have we ever replaced the grass turf at Baum?

Ricepig you should able to hop in a tractor and make a prefect crown in less than a day.  Free of charge.


As for the turf. It's all about environmental conditions. Like farming is.. I mean if it gets a bad sting nematode infestation then it could be detrimental to it.
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2018, 11:09:30 am »

This thread is outstanding. Hogville needs more grassguys. Great job grassguy.
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ricepig

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2018, 11:44:48 am »

Ricepig you should able to hop in a tractor and make a prefect crown in less than a day.  Free of charge.


As for the turf. It's all about environmental conditions. Like farming is.. I mean if it gets a bad sting nematode infestation then it could be detrimental to it.

We've got a new BOT member that can run that for us. Several years ago Jonesboro put down a new "prescription" turf and Cox ran the whole show, from getting the old stripped, to laser grading the slope, to laying the new grass. We spent about $250k, and because our high school field is used 4 days a week, it lasted about 2 years between the hash marks. We installed turf and a new track for about $1m 5 years later.
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ricepig

Re: Return to Grass?
« Reply #99 on: April 07, 2018, 11:47:13 am »

Ricepig you should able to hop in a tractor and make a prefect crown in less than a day.  Free of charge.


As for the turf. It's all about environmental conditions. Like farming is.. I mean if it gets a bad sting nematode infestation then it could be detrimental to it.

Use was our problem, JV games, 7th/8th grade games, Jr. High games, and then Sr high games, too much traffic for grass. And yeah, certainly somebody would have some dirt pans a little closer than NEA, ha.
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