Hogville Info
• 9,814,718 Posts
• 396,168 Topics
• 22,374 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Here's where I am with Mike...  (Read 3443 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MB Hog

Here's where I am with Mike...
« on: April 05, 2018, 12:53:46 pm »

Here is where I am.  I was against hiring Mike in the first place because I felt we should go after someone with a more modern approach to the game and who was great with X's and O's.  I still think that would have been the best decision if we had gone there at the time.  But now that we are where we are, I'm not ready to close the door on Mike because with the last two recruiting classes he seems to have finally broken through some of the barriers of getting our best in-state guys to stay home (Hall leaving notwithstanding).  And given how many great prospects we have coming up in the next few years, I worry that we'll lose those connections and have to start all over again.  And with Penny knocking on the door from Memphis, the relationship Mike has built with the high school players and coaches in the state could be very beneficial in winning those recruiting wars compared to a new coach who doesn't have these strong ties.

I was also worried that Mike's (Nolan's) system was not good for getting big men to sign; however, we've turned out better in that sense because the game has moved away from back-to-the-basket big men, so we are actually perfect for high-flying runners like Gafford and Henderson.

Finally, with all of the recruiting violations being exposed in other programs this year, I think Mike has proven to be a stand-up guy who plays by the rules.  He's someone we can trust to do the right thing... and someone parents can trust to watch over their sons.

The next 2 - 3 years (if he gets them) will go a long way in showing us whether he has us truly turning the corner or simply maintaining a level of respectability.  Yes, I'm up for giving him those 2 - 3 more years to see how things pan out.  We haven't been much of anything special in the college basketball world since Corliss and Scotty left, but it seems we are closer than we have been in a very long time.  We've waited this long, so what's the harm?  We've been to the tourney 3 out of the last 4 years.  If that turns into 4 out of 5, and 5 out of 6, but we don't put a bigger dent in how deep we get, we would still have a program that is much more respectable than what it was with Heath and Pelphrey, and much more likely to bring in a strong coach if it still seems that move needs to be made.
Logged

tusked

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 46
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11,676
  • Clapton is god....but SRV was the big bang!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2018, 01:12:38 pm »


I was all for the Mike hire.  Loved it at the time.  Thing is he hasn't won anything.  He hasn't won a conference championship or tournament or made it to the sweet 16.

Time for him to accomplish something and one of those 3 things is what he needs to accomplish.

If he doesn't do one of those 3 in the next 2 season, time to go.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2018, 01:19:53 pm »

I was all for the Mike hire.  Loved it at the time.  Thing is he hasn't won anything.  He hasn't won a conference championship or tournament or made it to the sweet 16.

Time for him to accomplish something and one of those 3 things is what he needs to accomplish.

If he doesn't do one of those 3 in the next 2 season, time to go.
That sounds reasonable to me.  I might give him 3 depending on how things are looking... simply because this year's special class would be juniors.  But if things don't seem extremely promising after year 2, I'd agree with the change then, too.
Logged

SONofHAM

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2018, 03:13:31 pm »

That sounds reasonable to me.  I might give him 3 depending on how things are looking... simply because this year's special class would be juniors.  But if things don't seem extremely promising after year 2, I'd agree with the change then, too.
special class? Iím seeing them ranked #25 and mostly due to the number of commits.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2018, 03:14:34 pm »

special class? Iím seeing them ranked #25 and mostly due to the number of commits.
Compare it to past years and this class has more guys ranked in the 90's than we have had since maybe Mike's first class.
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2018, 04:07:59 pm »

special class? Iím seeing them ranked #25 and mostly due to the number of commits.
Yep.  I think this class is special because 1) The in-state players have already been through battles together on the national stage and proven to be formidable at that level, 2) the length and athleticism of the class is great for our system, 3) it has good size throughout, 4) includes an exceptional shooter and several dynamic scorers, 5) includes a couple of big guys who are strong rebounders, and even the guards are good at coming down with the ball, 6) there are no "reaches" in this class... all were in our A-tier for our specific needs.

I think most of these guys are going to come in college-ready... not the typical freshman class.  Not comparing specific skills, but I expect the mental readiness similar to previous freshmen such as Lee Mayberry, Patrick Beverly, and JJ Sullinger.
Logged

99toLife

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 18
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14,976
  • Crazy Times Make Crazy people Crazier!!!!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2018, 04:10:34 pm »

Mike is Mike and always will be Mike. Like him or leave him one thing we know is he is consistent.
Logged

rude1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,075
  • Razorback Basketball Another New Beginning....
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2018, 05:18:27 pm »

Compare it to past years and this class has more guys ranked in the 90's than we have had since maybe Mike's first class.
Don't know where you are looking but even generous ESPN has only one of the incoming players in it's top 100.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2018, 05:21:18 pm »

Don't know where you are looking but even generous ESPN has only one of the incoming players in it's top 100.
Just going off of 247sports rankings. Collectively we don't have but 1 recruit under 90 and that's Desi Sills. Last year we had two ranked below Desi, and 2016 three ranked below Desi's ranking. We don't have a single high profile recruit like Gafford or a Portis. But we do have a couple guys ranked higher or right around Macon and Barfords ranking.
Logged

rude1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,075
  • Razorback Basketball Another New Beginning....
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2018, 05:29:23 pm »

Just going off of 247sports rankings. Collectively we don't have but 1 recruit under 90 and that's Desi Sills. Last year we had two ranked below Desi, and 2016 three ranked below Desi's ranking. We don't have a single high profile recruit like Gafford or a Portis. But we do have a couple guys ranked higher or right around Macon and Barfords ranking.
No you aren't getting that off 247. Either you are making that up or getting it from some place else one player at 99.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2018, 05:32:04 pm »

No you aren't getting that off 247. Either you are making that up or getting it from some place else one player at 99.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool
I didn't say they were the 90th recruit. I should say their "rating" not ranking are above 90's. Here is the link I was looking at. https://247sports.com/college/arkansas/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits
Logged

navyhog24

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2018, 05:33:25 pm »

I'm ready to part ways. It's time to get some fresh blood in the program. A coach that actually coaches and stresses fundamentals of offense and defense. A guy that doesn't need a former player or relative to be able to recruit. We just need something different. We've seen his ceiling. It's time for change.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2018, 05:44:33 pm »

I'm ready to part ways. It's time to get some fresh blood in the program. A coach that actually coaches and stresses fundamentals of offense and defense. A guy that doesn't need a former player or relative to be able to recruit. We just need something different. We've seen his ceiling. It's time for change.
I keep hearing this lack of fundamentals. How can a team lack such fundamentals but also be one of the best teams in all of NCAA in not turning the ball over? There were only 23 teams better at protecting the basketball and not turning it over. I get the rebounding argument, that's always going to be there in this style of defense and the fact we play what amounts to a zone defense. As big and good as Duke was they were 31st in rebounding, the best among teams that played a considerable amount of zone. But we were top 20 in 3pt% (shooting is fundamental) and top 25 in turnovers per game (dribbling and passing are fundamentals). So how does this team lack fundamentals?
Logged

rude1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,075
  • Razorback Basketball Another New Beginning....
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2018, 05:54:29 pm »

I didn't say they were the 90th recruit. I should say their "rating" not ranking are above 90's. Here is the link I was looking at. https://247sports.com/college/arkansas/Season/2018-Basketball/Commits
I see what you are saying. Either way they are NOT highly ranked recruits.
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2018, 06:03:08 pm »

I see what you are saying. Either way they are NOT highly ranked recruits.
They are all solid recruits, though, and that is important for programs not build on the one-and-done philosophy.  These are players who should be here for 3 - 4 years and provide a solid foundation for any team, and this class has versatility in and of itself.

Yes, we have no guarantee they will all stay given the track record of the last few years, but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and expect this will be the class that brings stability back to the program.  Throw in Justice Hill, possibly in December, and that's a lot of talent, speed, length, and toughness.
Logged

Otis

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 1
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2018, 06:11:13 pm »

I keep hearing this lack of fundamentals. How can a team lack such fundamentals but also be one of the best teams in all of NCAA in not turning the ball over? There were only 23 teams better at protecting the basketball and not turning it over. I get the rebounding argument, that's always going to be there in this style of defense and the fact we play what amounts to a zone defense. As big and good as Duke was they were 31st in rebounding, the best among teams that played a considerable amount of zone. But we were top 20 in 3pt% (shooting is fundamental) and top 25 in turnovers per game (dribbling and passing are fundamentals). So how does this team lack fundamentals?

Itís hard to turn the ball over, when your offense consists of one maybe two passes and then a forced shot.
Logged

daprospecta

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2018, 06:18:02 pm »

Itís hard to turn the ball over, when your offense consists of one maybe two passes and then a forced shot.
This is a load of crap.  Haters love to point to facts but when facts that don't meet their agenda are brought up, they spew bullsh**. 
Logged

raz1965

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 475
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2018, 06:21:38 pm »

Heres where I am with Mike, I know he will have his most talented team next year, I know he has had bits an peices to this point , I'm just ready to see next year's team on the court, basketball is not rocket science it's players.
Logged

rude1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,075
  • Razorback Basketball Another New Beginning....
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2018, 07:42:10 pm »

They are all solid recruits, though, and that is important for programs not build on the one-and-done philosophy.  These are players who should be here for 3 - 4 years and provide a solid foundation for any team, and this class has versatility in and of itself.

Yes, we have no guarantee they will all stay given the track record of the last few years, but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and expect this will be the class that brings stability back to the program.  Throw in Justice Hill, possibly in December, and that's a lot of talent, speed, length, and toughness.
Yeah we say they SHOULD be here 3-4 years but by the time they are Jr.s - Sr.s the class has diminished pretty much, and the ones left are role players that can't lead the team. Same song second verse.
Logged

nwahogfan1

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2018, 10:27:24 pm »

I keep hearing this lack of fundamentals. How can a team lack such fundamentals but also be one of the best teams in all of NCAA in not turning the ball over? There were only 23 teams better at protecting the basketball and not turning it over. I get the rebounding argument, that's always going to be there in this style of defense and the fact we play what amounts to a zone defense. As big and good as Duke was they were 31st in rebounding, the best among teams that played a considerable amount of zone. But we were top 20 in 3pt% (shooting is fundamental) and top 25 in turnovers per game (dribbling and passing are fundamentals). So how does this team lack fundamentals?

Good Fundamentals on defense makes the offense work and take bad shots. We consistently give up open looks and dribble penetration. Good Offense fundamentals means all 5 guys working together and will usually lead to open looks for all 5.  Do you see that happening. I saw a lot of one on one
Logged

Smalltownhog95

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Total likes: 8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 472
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2018, 10:45:09 pm »

I wanted him gone after Butler but knew there wasnt a chance in it happening. So i say sweet 16 this year or we cut our losses. I know the recruting class he's bringing in is supposed to be good. But he's had Qualls, Portis, Hannahs, Moses, Barford, Gafford, and Macon, etc... Why does anyone think he'll do more with this class than past stars?
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2018, 10:54:48 pm »

Good Fundamentals on defense makes the offense work and take bad shots. We consistently give up open looks and dribble penetration. Good Offense fundamentals means all 5 guys working together and will usually lead to open looks for all 5.  Do you see that happening. I saw a lot of one on one
Fundamentals of Basketball is passing, shooting, and dribbling. Those are fundamentals. We did not lack in those areas.
Logged

MountieDawg

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 05:13:10 am »

Does he get 5 more years because this years dumpster fire of players leaving.
Logged

HoopS

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2018, 06:30:51 am »

Fundamentals of Basketball is passing, shooting, and dribbling. Those are fundamentals. We did not lack in those areas.
exactly. Itís ridiculous to actually sit here and think a D1 program thatís getting into the NCAAT consistently and winning 23-27 games somehow isnít being taught fundamentals.

Now maybe theyíd prefer we not double team, or leak out off the defensive end to push offensive tempo, or run motion offense, but those are choices we make to dictate tempo as we want - not lack of fundamentals.

Oh well.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 06:59:09 am by HoopS »
Logged

onebadrubi

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 154
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,355
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2018, 06:58:56 am »

They are all solid recruits, though, and that is important for programs not build on the one-and-done philosophy.  These are players who should be here for 3 - 4 years and provide a solid foundation for any team, and this class has versatility in and of itself.

Yes, we have no guarantee they will all stay given the track record of the last few years, but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and expect this will be the class that brings stability back to the program.  Throw in Justice Hill, possibly in December, and that's a lot of talent, speed, length, and toughness.

Mike has given us absolutely no evidence he can keep guys 3-4 years
Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 114
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,511
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2018, 07:00:22 am »

Here is where I am.  I was against hiring Mike in the first place because I felt we should go after someone with a more modern approach to the game and who was great with X's and O's.  I still think that would have been the best decision if we had gone there at the time.  But now that we are where we are, I'm not ready to close the door on Mike because with the last two recruiting classes he seems to have finally broken through some of the barriers of getting our best in-state guys to stay home (Hall leaving notwithstanding).  And given how many great prospects we have coming up in the next few years, I worry that we'll lose those connections and have to start all over again.  And with Penny knocking on the door from Memphis, the relationship Mike has built with the high school players and coaches in the state could be very beneficial in winning those recruiting wars compared to a new coach who doesn't have these strong ties.

I was also worried that Mike's (Nolan's) system was not good for getting big men to sign; however, we've turned out better in that sense because the game has moved away from back-to-the-basket big men, so we are actually perfect for high-flying runners like Gafford and Henderson.

Finally, with all of the recruiting violations being exposed in other programs this year, I think Mike has proven to be a stand-up guy who plays by the rules.  He's someone we can trust to do the right thing... and someone parents can trust to watch over their sons.

The next 2 - 3 years (if he gets them) will go a long way in showing us whether he has us truly turning the corner or simply maintaining a level of respectability.  Yes, I'm up for giving him those 2 - 3 more years to see how things pan out.  We haven't been much of anything special in the college basketball world since Corliss and Scotty left, but it seems we are closer than we have been in a very long time.  We've waited this long, so what's the harm?  We've been to the tourney 3 out of the last 4 years.  If that turns into 4 out of 5, and 5 out of 6, but we don't put a bigger dent in how deep we get, we would still have a program that is much more respectable than what it was with Heath and Pelphrey, and much more likely to bring in a strong coach if it still seems that move needs to be made.

just going by his accomplishments ( or lack thereof) so far, what coach would ever get 10 years? 

I wish someone would have me this type of golden ticket. make millions for average results, and have people willing to make excuses for me all the time.
Logged

onebadrubi

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 154
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,355
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2018, 07:01:44 am »

Fundamentals of Basketball is passing, shooting, and dribbling. Those are fundamentals. We did not lack in those areas.

Is being a ball hog and not passing fundamental?  Asking for a friend
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2018, 07:11:43 am »

just going by his accomplishments ( or lack thereof) so far, what coach would ever get 10 years? 

I wish someone would have me this type of golden ticket. make millions for average results, and have people willing to make excuses for me all the time.
Hi, Kevin - I guess it depends on where we were when you got here.  If we'd barely sniffed the NCAA tourney for the 20 years before you got here and now you've made it 3 out of 4 years, I'd say we're trending up and I would want to see if you could continue the improvement in the next 2 - 3 years rather than starting over.
Logged

HoopS

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2018, 08:01:47 am »

just going by his accomplishments ( or lack thereof) so far, what coach would ever get 10 years? 

I wish someone would have me this type of golden ticket. make millions for average results, and have people willing to make excuses for me all the time.
you keep saying this.

Nobody else would have been fired from here given the results. He continues to get us into the tournament when we had been so inconsistent for a long time.

Granted, if this were right after Nolan, Iíd be in line with you. But a lot has happened since then and he is just now getting us back up to where we want to be.  Not there yet.

I do like that some have high expectations. And I hope to see us take the next step.

I lived the great years too.

But MA hasnít earned getting fired, nor a lifetime pass.
Logged

mhuff

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2018, 08:11:59 am »

Is being a ball hog and not passing fundamental?  Asking for a friend

While I respect Azhog and his basketball knowledge, I saw a completely different BB team than he did. It's kinda like the communication exercise where you look at a picture and depending on your focus one person sees a beautiful young woman ,and another person sees an old hag. Incidentally, throw in rebounding as a fundamental. Rarely did we look like a basketball team. The offense and defense looked like eighth grade, not nineth grade.

I definitely am excited about the team next year. I think the program is on an uptick ,but I've got to see some coaching. What good does it do to get good recruits if no one coaches them. This is Mike's year to show what he can do. It's time to fish or cut bait. I won't watch bad basketball anymore. My standards are just higher than most. You don't get a consistent elite program by having low standards. Getting 20 points down in games and not playing good defense tells me the coach has not coached.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 08:30:27 am by mhuff »
Logged

Letsroll1200

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,206
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2018, 08:18:05 am »

you keep saying this.

Nobody else would have been fired from here given the results. He continues to get us into the tournament when we had been so inconsistent for a long time.

Granted, if this were right after Nolan, Iíd be in line with you. But a lot has happened since then and he is just now getting us back up to where we want to be.  Not there yet.

I do like that some have high expectations. And I hope to see us take the next step.

I lived the great years too.

But MA hasnít earned getting fired, nor a lifetime pass.

The program is healthy and is trending upward. I think even I expected a little more but the program waa dead before MA arrived.
Mike could have fallen into the sleazy recruiting tactics like Bruce Pearl and won a SEC championship. However, success the wrong way is often short lived and not sustainable. When Mike wins a national championship he will do it the right way.

Really looking forward to next season because the me guys are gone. I don't know how many games they will win but when you have chemistry and guys playing for each other you have a chance to be good.
Logged

The real Hogules

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 4
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8,341
  • My Hogs are bad ass!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2018, 08:38:49 am »

Fundamentals of Basketball is passing, shooting, and dribbling. Those are fundamentals. We did not lack in those areas.
I disagree on the "passing", because our guards seemed to always put the ball on the floor and dribble, rather than pass the ball quickly and crisply, looking for the open shot. Additionally, I saw MANY opportunities for a quick pass into the interior of the defense to an open Daniel Gafford that never happened, due in large part to no actual PG on the floor.
Hopefully that'll change next season.
Logged

mhuff

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2018, 08:41:56 am »

Well said Letsroll. I don't think anyone questions Mike's character. If they do, they have other agendas. Mike is a fine Christian gentleman who is well respected in the industry, but where does he rank with other coaches as far as coaching ability is concerned. I only hope that he is able to keep Scotty. He is the glue right now. Were there rumors of a coach leaving?
Logged

mhuff

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2018, 08:46:10 am »

I disagree on the "passing", because our guards seemed to always put the ball on the floor and dribble, rather than pass the ball quickly and crisply, looking for the open shot. Additionally, I saw MANY opportunities for a quick pass into the interior of the defense to an open Daniel Gafford that never happened, due in large part to no actual PG on the floor.
Hopefully that'll change next season.
Logged

rude1

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,075
  • Razorback Basketball Another New Beginning....
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2018, 08:52:06 am »

exactly. Itís ridiculous to actually sit here and think a D1 program thatís getting into the NCAAT consistently and winning 23-27 games somehow isnít being taught fundamentals.

Now maybe theyíd prefer we not double team, or leak out off the defensive end to push offensive tempo, or run motion offense, but those are choices we make to dictate tempo as we want - not lack of fundamentals.

Oh well.
There's a lot of agenda pushing with that term "fundamentals". I think you nailed it with your observation. Lack of execution has NOTHING to do with fundamentals, BUT a lack of execution could indicate a lack of coaching. I think the design of the defense is seriously flawed, but that still has nothing to do with fundamentals.

Before anyone brings up Vill. switching too, one BIG difference in the two, look where Vill. defense made those switches, they aren't extended beyond the three point line chasing ball handlers, they are packed inside so that driving lanes are cut off, and bigs are still able to recover to the glass, you did not see their bigs chasing a ball handler 30' from the basket nor leaving shooters in favor of a double team.
Logged

Letsroll1200

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 10
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 5,206
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2018, 08:58:14 am »

Well said Letsroll. I don't think anyone questions Mike's character. If they do, they have other agendas. Mike is a fine Christian gentleman who is well respected in the industry, but where does he rank with other coaches as far as coaching ability is concerned. I only hope that he is able to keep Scotty. He is the glue right now. Were there rumors of a coach leaving?

Have not heard about a coaching leaving
Logged

onebadrubi

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 154
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,355
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2018, 09:08:09 am »

One can question whether Mike is right or wrong to continue the Arkansas job without putting the man down personally.  I believe he is a great human being and great to be around these young men as a leader, however that is a small percentage of justifying his employment.  If we are to place a higher percentage of how good he is within society instead of his product on the court and the program then we are all supporting this program with the wrong hopes. 

It is very disturbing when you look at his retention rate of recruits that should be 3-4 year players.  His multiple games a year that it appears he lacked preparing the team is very disturbing.  Whatever is currently going on in this Hall/Jones situation is also confusing and many different rumors flying around, some of which Mike might be responsible for and some he may have had nothing to do with.

However, Just getting us to the dance is not sufficient enough to keep his job IMO.  I am grateful he got us out of the bottom of the SEC, but that doesn't mean his job is done nor is complacency ok to set in there. His recruiting is trending up yes, but when you have continue setbacks like early departure of players that shouldn't be leaving and more than the occasional bad loss, then you are losing your momentum. 

People that can't see there is plenty good and plenty negative things happening most likely are pushing a previously formed agenda/opinion. 
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2018, 09:10:32 am »

I disagree on the "passing", because our guards seemed to always put the ball on the floor and dribble, rather than pass the ball quickly and crisply, looking for the open shot. Additionally, I saw MANY opportunities for a quick pass into the interior of the defense to an open Daniel Gafford that never happened, due in large part to no actual PG on the floor.
Hopefully that'll change next season.
I think the lack of passing this year was more about the players than the coaching.  We saw flashes of great passing during the season where we would get on an absolute tear, but the selfishness would take over with guys wanting to get "mine."  Good passing is being taught, but often not executed.

Yes, this is a coaching shortcoming because Mike couldn't get some of those guys under control, but he also knew he couldn't get away with benching that kind of talent and still win.  If he didn't shave his head, he probably would have pulled the last of his hair out this season.

And I hate to say negative things about the guys in question because they seem like they are good guys in general... they just couldn't get out of their own way when it came to passing vs. creating their own shots.
Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 114
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,511
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2018, 09:11:28 am »

Hi, Kevin - I guess it depends on where we were when you got here.  If we'd barely sniffed the NCAA tourney for the 20 years before you got here and now you've made it 3 out of 4 years, I'd say we're trending up and I would want to see if you could continue the improvement in the next 2 - 3 years rather than starting over.

better yes, but i think the program has plateaued.

when you look at the roster, we are basically starting over.

Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 114
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22,511
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2018, 09:12:10 am »

you keep saying this.

Nobody else would have been fired from here given the results. He continues to get us into the tournament when we had been so inconsistent for a long time.

Granted, if this were right after Nolan, I’d be in line with you. But a lot has happened since then and he is just now getting us back up to where we want to be.  Not there yet.

I do like that some have high expectations. And I hope to see us take the next step.

I lived the great years too.

But MA hasn’t earned getting fired, nor a lifetime pass.

guess you didn't read mike Irwin when he posted, that mike will not be fired here
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2018, 09:15:54 am »

Is being a ball hog and not passing fundamental?  Asking for a friend
It's not fundamental team basketball. But not every player was that way. It also isn't good enough to make a blanket statement that this team lacked fundamentals. Of course there were some things they were not good at. But to say the team has no fundamentals isn't a true statement. You aren't one of the best teams in basketball in terms of shooting and turning it over if you don't have at least some fundamentals.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2018, 09:18:19 am »

While I respect Azhog and his basketball knowledge, I saw a completely different BB team than he did. It's kinda like the communication exercise where you look at a picture and depending on your focus one person sees a beautiful young woman ,and another person sees an old hag. Incidentally, throw in rebounding as a fundamental. Rarely did we look like a basketball team. The offense and defense looked like eighth grade, not nineth grade.

I definitely am excited about the team next year. I think the program is on an uptick ,but I've got to see some coaching. What good does it do to get good recruits if no one coaches them. This is Mike's year to show what he can do. It's time to fish or cut bait. I won't watch bad basketball anymore. My standards are just higher than most. You don't get a consistent elite program by having low standards. Getting 20 points down in games and not playing good defense tells me the coach has not coached.
I agree with what you are saying. But while we had many deficiencies we did not lack all individual fundamentals. We definitely had issues with being selfless and playing team basketball.
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2018, 09:19:14 am »

One can question whether Mike is right or wrong to continue the Arkansas job without putting the man down personally.  I believe he is a great human being and great to be around these young men as a leader, however that is a small percentage of justifying his employment.  If we are to place a higher percentage of how good he is within society instead of his product on the court and the program then we are all supporting this program with the wrong hopes. 

It is very disturbing when you look at his retention rate of recruits that should be 3-4 year players.  His multiple games a year that it appears he lacked preparing the team is very disturbing.  Whatever is currently going on in this Hall/Jones situation is also confusing and many different rumors flying around, some of which Mike might be responsible for and some he may have had nothing to do with.

However, Just getting us to the dance is not sufficient enough to keep his job IMO.  I am grateful he got us out of the bottom of the SEC, but that doesn't mean his job is done nor is complacency ok to set in there. His recruiting is trending up yes, but when you have continue setbacks like early departure of players that shouldn't be leaving and more than the occasional bad loss, then you are losing your momentum. 

People that can't see there is plenty good and plenty negative things happening most likely are pushing a previously formed agenda/opinion. 
I'm really curious about the reason Hall is leaving.  Some people on here have implied that people wouldn't be complaining about it if we knew the real reason he's gone.  I'm just hoping that reason will become public because it is a real head-scratcher as it currently stands.

Regarding Jones, I was hopeful he would continue to improve... get better on defense and more consistent on offense, but he was likely going to fall behind players from the new class, so I'm not upset he is leaving and not surprised he decided to move on.
Logged

onebadrubi

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 154
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,355
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2018, 09:22:08 am »

It's not fundamental team basketball. But not every player was that way. It also isn't good enough to make a blanket statement that this team lacked fundamentals. Of course there were some things they were not good at. But to say the team has no fundamentals isn't a true statement. You aren't one of the best teams in basketball in terms of shooting and turning it over if you don't have at least some fundamentals.

See, you can same some fundamentals to make your point but you can't call out the guy saying we lacked some fundamentals to conclude with we have some.  Sure we have some, but you can have some and lack some.

No offense made by this and you have shown some real knowledge in the past, but someone who wants to defend fundamental of this previous basketball year I have to be curious of.  Is free throws not a MAJOR fundamental?

Put me in the group that thinks we definitely lacked some fundamentals.  I get majorly pissed when we have numbers in a fast break and see a guy not pass.  We have seen this now since Mikes beginning.  I personally believe that is AWFUL coaching and fundamentals.  This doesn't just happen once then someone get corrected, it happens ever game under Mike, which tells me he apparently doesn't fix it.  But if you are in a break and try to go one on one when you have a player running with you, well I'd bench you.  Whatever happened to the older drill have going down the court with the ball touching the ground?  That or something along those lines is way more effective than the ball hog selfish 1 on 1.  I think it is also contagious and I believe we saw this mentality spread across this team this year.  Gafford and Hall start trying to force things to get their shots because of selfishness.
Logged

onebadrubi

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Total likes: 154
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,355
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2018, 09:24:32 am »

I'm really curious about the reason Hall is leaving.  Some people on here have implied that people wouldn't be complaining about it if we knew the real reason he's gone.  I'm just hoping that reason will become public because it is a real head-scratcher as it currently stands.

Regarding Jones, I was hopeful he would continue to improve... get better on defense and more consistent on offense, but he was likely going to fall behind players from the new class, so I'm not upset he is leaving and not surprised he decided to move on.

I have no clue but reading I have drawn two conclusions that appear most likely;

One is he is leaving because he couldn't follow rules of the team, that is either maybe passing drug test, going to class, or making grades. I have no clue of which it might be, but could be any or all or any mixture.

Second is the Memphis/Penny recruitment. 

I feel that one of those two are it.  One I think could be traced back to leadership and structure (I don't think we have much) and if it's the second I'm more mad at Mike for not blocking the transfer to Memphis. 

And regarding Jones, I'll make a comment I held in all year for fear of bashing a player.  Dude was bad, he threw up way to many three's that hit nothing and were bad misses.  And with his length he was a poor defender.  I cringed anytime he came on the court. 
Logged

MB Hog

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2018, 09:25:11 am »

better yes, but i think the program has plateaued.

when you look at the roster, we are basically starting over.


That's your opinion, but certainly not provable yet.  If you graphed this, it would show an upward trend.  It took a little longer to get bach to the tourney than hoped, but we got there in year 5, then missed in year 6 then got there two years in a row for the first time in forever.  That's improvement and a semblance of consistent success that was very much lacking before.  We will see over the next 2 - 3 years whether we've plateaued or will continue to trend upwards.
Logged

redleg

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 47
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,336
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2018, 09:37:26 am »

I am of the opinion that unless Mike Anderson gets the Hogs to the Sweet 16, minimum, over the next two seasons, Hunter Yurachek will probably fire him. 22-23 wins and a 1st or 2nd round appearance in the NCAAs should not be the standard we settle for.
Yurachek is not the guy that hired Mike, so it will make it easier for him to set standards for Anderson to meet, and then fire him if they are not met, and hire his own coach. IF...Anderson does not meet the standards.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Total likes: 20
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,555
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2018, 09:41:35 am »

See, you can same some fundamentals to make your point but you can't call out the guy saying we lacked some fundamentals to conclude with we have some.  Sure we have some, but you can have some and lack some.

No offense made by this and you have shown some real knowledge in the past, but someone who wants to defend fundamental of this previous basketball year I have to be curious of.  Is free throws not a MAJOR fundamental?

Put me in the group that thinks we definitely lacked some fundamentals.  I get majorly pissed when we have numbers in a fast break and see a guy not pass.  We have seen this now since Mikes beginning.  I personally believe that is AWFUL coaching and fundamentals.  This doesn't just happen once then someone get corrected, it happens ever game under Mike, which tells me he apparently doesn't fix it.  But if you are in a break and try to go one on one when you have a player running with you, well I'd bench you.  Whatever happened to the older drill have going down the court with the ball touching the ground?  That or something along those lines is way more effective than the ball hog selfish 1 on 1.  I think it is also contagious and I believe we saw this mentality spread across this team this year.  Gafford and Hall start trying to force things to get their shots because of selfishness.
It wasn't said we lacked SOME fundamentals. That's what I am arguing. Sure we lacked some, most teams do, the ones that don't win a NC. But to say we had no fundamentals or lack fundamentals as blanket statement isn't true. I agree that this team was not forced to play team basketball and that's where this team failed.

Also the drill you talk about? They do every day. Their blowout drill the ball never touches the ground. Mike should have pulled guys that weren't willing to play his way. But sometimes at this level winning is all that matters and as a coach you have to make a decision. I don't agree with his decision but if playing selfish guys was the best chance you had for winning and making the NCAAt what would you have done? Easy for us to say bench your best players but there would have been a ton of upset folks.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 09:55:33 am by azhog10 »
Logged

razorback1829

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Total likes: 25
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2018, 09:53:36 am »

Well said Letsroll. I don't think anyone questions Mike's character. If they do, they have other agendas. Mike is a fine Christian gentleman who is well respected in the industry, but where does he rank with other coaches as far as coaching ability is concerned. I only hope that he is able to keep Scotty. He is the glue right now. Were there rumors of a coach leaving?

Love Scotty, he's a baby in the industry though. He's getting better though and maybe down the line will be a force out there. He's not close to that yet though. One narrative that needed to be put to sleep. Glad he's here though.
Logged

HoopS

Re: Here's where I am with Mike...
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2018, 09:54:06 am »

guess you didn't read mike Irwin when he posted, that mike will not be fired here
I saw it. I respect Mike.

Mike A hasnít done anything to get fired yet and anything stating he is unfirable is conjecture and I donít care who says it.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas