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Author Topic: What would happen if NCAA schools started paying MBB and football players?  (Read 1646 times)

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Pork Twain

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Nothing would change, as everything around this situation would flex to restabilize (i.e. some teams would still pay more under the table and local and national commerce would profit more).
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maxhog5

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You would also have to pay the women's basketball players.
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Smalltownhog95

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It'll solve nothing. Players will still take money under the table. It'll create a bigger headache with less popular sports like the track team wanting in on the cut.
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hawgball40

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most small schools wouldn't be able to afford it. the more athletes you have, the more money you have to pay. would cost millions per school, even at only paying $1,000 a month per player, and only those on scholarship. here's some basic math. these are all the sports i'm aware of and the numbers are based on the scholarships available per sport.

1000 a month per player = 12k per year per player

85 football players
13 womens basketball players
13 womens basketball players
27 baseball players
12 mens track and field
12 womens track and field
12 softball players
18 hockey players
10 mens swimming
10 womens swimming
12 gymnasts
-------
214 total players to be paid 12k each

$2,568,000 per year

These are only scholarship players mind you. If you extend the stipend to the entire roster for each sport, then the numbers go up even higher. I know you're thinking: No problem. Well thats true for us big schools with lots of tv revenue and profitable sports programs. but all the small schools? well, thanks for playing. Its just not feasible, and 1000 a month is not much money anyway. Also consider, the scholarship players are already getting a full ride to school, worth how many thousands of dollars per year?

« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 12:03:51 am by hawgball40 »
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STLhawg

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The talking heads at ESPN are a bunch of idiots if they truly believe that would fixing anything at all!  Are they really that dumb?
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k.c.hawg

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most small schools wouldn't be able to afford it. the more athletes you have, the more money you have to pay. would cost millions per school, even at only paying $1,000 a month per player, and only those on scholarship. here's some basic math. these are all the sports i'm aware of and the numbers are based on the scholarships available per sport.

1000 a month per player = 12k per year per player

85 football players
13 womens basketball players
13 womens basketball players
27 baseball players
12 mens track and field
12 womens track and field
12 softball players
18 hockey players
10 mens swimming
10 womens swimming
12 gymnasts
-------
214 total players to be paid 12k each

$2,568,000 per year

These are only scholarship players mind you. If you extend the stipend to the entire roster for each sport, then the numbers go up even higher. I know you're thinking: No problem. Well thats true for us big schools with lots of tv revenue and profitable sports programs. but all the small schools? well, thanks for playing. Its just not feasible, and 1000 a month is not much money anyway. Also consider, the scholarship players are already getting a full ride to school, worth how many thousands of dollars per year?



Then throw in workman's comp, a department to manage withholding taxes, the cost soon doubles. Every guy that has a workplace injury is getting a settlement. From blown out knee down to sprained ankle.
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maxhog5

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Then throw in workman's comp, a department to manage withholding taxes, the cost soon doubles. Every guy that has a workplace injury is getting a settlement. From blown out knee down to sprained ankle.

In what professional sports do players get workman's comp and settlements for every injury?

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Pork Twain

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They are already getting a free education that most kids will never see.
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Kevin

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everything is free, most receive a pell grant, and they get a stipend from the school. the don't need to be paid.

how about taking that money, and adding to baseball scholarships.  they only get 11.7 scholarships. most of them are paying to go to college. wonder why there is no uproar about that? sounds like inequality to me? or the swimmer or the tennis player, or the gymnast, or track.
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Inhogswetrust

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They get paid already.
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J-Five

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This is so simple, yet the powers that be play dumb and continually throw out the lame "they get a free education" stance.  Power 5 conferences could easily do this with no effect on the fan or taxpayers.  How much $$$ did Arkansas receive last year through TV deals/Bowl games (that they didn't participate in)?  I'm sure it was in excess of 17+ million.  You could easily take a small percentage of that $$$ and pay ALL athletes (male or female).  Problem solved.  I don't see why this can't be a reality.  Am I missing something...?
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hogsanity

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This is so simple, yet the powers that be play dumb and continually throw out the lame "they get a free education" stance.  Power 5 conferences could easily do this with no effect on the fan or taxpayers.  How much $$$ did Arkansas receive last year through TV deals/Bowl games (that they didn't participate in)?  I'm sure it was in excess of 17+ million.  You could easily take a small percentage of that $$$ and pay ALL athletes (male or female).  Problem solved.  I don't see why this can't be a reality.  Am I missing something...?

As was already pointed out, and has been pointed out before, it is not the p5 schools that are an issue, with a couple exceptions, it is the schools like Ball St, Arky St, WKU. There are 130+/- d1 football schools, but over 350 basketball and no idea how many baseball. Plus some schools have scholarships in things like Hockey, mens volleyball, swimming/diving, and maybe other sports I do not even think about. Then what do you do in FCS, where they have scholarships, just not as many as fbs level?

And make no mistake, the whining is from a select few players who are the stars. No one is making a profit selling gear representing the 3rd string right tackle, or the 8th wr on the depth chart.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Well isnít the answer to the OP question quite simply?

Ticket prices would go up(way up) because eventually after all the dust and lawsuits had been settled...you got to pay the women to and you got to pay them as much as men even if they bring no money to the table themselves.
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hogsanity

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The actual simple answer is for the top 64 or so football schools to break away from the ncaa and form their own association. Well, that's at least as simple as just paying everyone.
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Cinco de Hogo

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The actual simple answer is for the top 64 or so football schools to break away from the ncaa and form their own association. Well, that's at least as simple as just paying everyone.

They would still have to pay ALL the athletes eventually because someone is going to sue.
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Cotton

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They would still have to pay ALL the athletes eventually because someone is going to sue.
You're right... but it's stupid because that's not how it works in any other system.
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hogsanity

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They would still have to pay ALL the athletes eventually because someone is going to sue.

But those 64 could probably handle it due to their size and the media rights revenue. 
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Cinco de Hogo

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But those 64 could probably handle it due to their size and the media rights revenue.

Right and ESPN can double their subscription rates so ALL those people that donít watch sports can pay for Mister Sports Stars new gold chains and souped up ride.
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hogsanity

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Right and ESPN can double their subscription rates so ALL those people that donít watch sports can pay for Mister Sports Stars new gold chains and souped up ride.

I am not in favor paying them one penny. I know how much a full ride scholarship is worth, because my kid is on one academically. add in their stipend they already get and they are getting paid plenty. None of them seem to be hurting for $ to get ink done.

I think the top football teams should leave the NCAA for many reasons, the least of which is paying the players.
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hawgball40

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I am not in favor paying them one penny. I know how much a full ride scholarship is worth, because my kid is on one academically. add in their stipend they already get and they are getting paid plenty. None of them seem to be hurting for $ to get ink done.

I think the top football teams should leave the NCAA for many reasons, the least of which is paying the players.
I've heard people say that kids on athletic scholarships aren't allowed to have jobs?
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k.c.hawg

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In what professional sports do players get workman's comp and settlements for every injury?



National Football League teams are facing a significant threat to their finances because of a legal option available to nearly every janitor, teacher and cashier in America -- workers' compensation.

Playing professional football is inherently dangerous, but the known risks do not prevent players -- and former players -- from filing workers' compensation claims against teams, courts have ruled. And while an individual compensation award might cost a team just $20,000, the changing types of claims being filed could end up costing teams millions of dollars a year.

More and more, the long-term effects of head trauma are being cited in workers' compensation claims, experts told "Outside the Lines," and the yearslong medical-treatment payments teams might be on the hook for to cover such claims could add up to millions annually.


More than anything else, said one insurance broker who has worked with an NFL team on its workers' compensation benefits, the workers' compensation reality could be the one item that forces significant changes to how the game is played on the field. Linemen, for example, might not be allowed to crash into each other from three-point stances in the near future, said Duke Niedringhaus of J.W. Terrill, a St. Louis-based insurance firm that has brokered workers' compensation insurance for NFL teams.


Hall of Fame pitcher Jim Palmer of the Baltimore Orioles was among 1,980 workers' compensation claims filed just before AB 1309, which prohibits athletes who spent most of their careers playing for teams outside of California from filing claims in the state.

Pro Bowl lineman Conrad Dobler, for example, was never employed by a California team. But his California road games made Dobler, now 63, eligible to file a cumulative injury claim in the Golden State. In 2012 a workers' comp judge in Santa Ana granted him a $120,000 award, plus lifetime medical care, paid for by the Buffalo Bills.

Starting in 2006, rising awareness of the California option led to an explosion in claims for cumulative trauma. Between January 2006 and April 2013, some 4,400 claims were filed in the state by pro athletes, seven times more than over the previous 15 years, the Times analysis found.

Two-thirds of all the claims alleging cumulative injury in that time came from players who did not name a California team as the responsible employer.


Nationwide there are tens of thousands of claims. Some states getting sued by players that were on out of state teams suing the state where the game was. Legislation was being rushed through to stop it from professional players but no such legislation exists for college players, that would essentially be employees of state and private universities. Motanna, Marino, Lynn Swann.....doesn't matter how much money these guys have made, most were/are elgible to draw workman's comp, some until age 67.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 09:37:05 am by k.c.hawg »
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logic

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If the government stays out of it with their awful laws, the market would decide what each player gets.  That is, paid what they are worth based on the law of supply and demand.  Most players would be lucky to get a full scholarship because that's all they are worth. A few players would be paid considerably more than that from a few thousand to a million dollars or more.

Even for the top players, there would be little, if any, payment for sports that don't make a profit and that don't have a lot of fans going to their events.
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rljjr

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This is so simple, yet the powers that be play dumb and continually throw out the lame "they get a free education" stance.  Power 5 conferences could easily do this with no effect on the fan or taxpayers.  How much $$$ did Arkansas receive last year through TV deals/Bowl games (that they didn't participate in)?  I'm sure it was in excess of 17+ million.  You could easily take a small percentage of that $$$ and pay ALL athletes (male or female).  Problem solved.  I don't see why this can't be a reality.  Am I missing something...?

Amateur athletics first of all.

Second, getting a free education is not lame. Ask the baseball players about their divided scholarships. Ask the women's soccer team about their quarter and half scholarships. Finally, as a parent of any student who is paying for school and ask them how huge a full-ride scholarship is and how much it would help them.

They get paid. They get pampered. They know the condition of their scholarship opportunity when they sign on the line. Nobody is forcing them to go to school and play a sport. They do it because of the rules of the professional leagues. They do it because they see the benefit of playing for "free" for three years as the price they have to pay to become millionaires.

I'm so sick of this argument and the entitlement culture. Consider it a short-term job interview in which ALL of your expenses are paid, and if you choose to take advantage of a degree program then you get so much more out of it.
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HoopS

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Not in favor at all of them getting paid.

Sure, some programs could easily do it. Some. And now we make it legal and those programs separate from the pack even more and they wonít stop there. Theyíll push it as much as possible.

And meantime we still have all the other programs to pay for.

Like Iíve said before, my boys will take those full rides in a heartbeat and be ever thankful.

But maybe we figure a compromise.

If you think you can earn more with your ďlikenessĒ, fine. You pay your own way to school and walk on into the program and start making a killing your way. Haha. See how long it is until you realize, you spoiled brat, how much that scholarship really matters.

And when you donít make the pros, which 95% of you wonít, maybe then youíll get lesson number two about that scholarship and its value.
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Bobby Bobo

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cheating would grow

not minimize
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hogsanity

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Amateur athletics first of all.

Second, getting a free education is not lame. Ask the baseball players about their divided scholarships. Ask the women's soccer team about their quarter and half scholarships. Finally, as a parent of any student who is paying for school and ask them how huge a full-ride scholarship is and how much it would help them.

They get paid. They get pampered. They know the condition of their scholarship opportunity when they sign on the line. Nobody is forcing them to go to school and play a sport. They do it because of the rules of the professional leagues. They do it because they see the benefit of playing for "free" for three years as the price they have to pay to become millionaires.

I'm so sick of this argument and the entitlement culture. Consider it a short-term job interview in which ALL of your expenses are paid, and if you choose to take advantage of a degree program then you get so much more out of it.

I am the parent of a child on a full ride, and I know exactly how much that is worth. At the risk of starting something huge the problem is that, by and large, the student athletes on teams like baseball, women's soccer, and other "lesser" sports or sports with divided scholarships are there to be students 1st. While in football, and men's basketball especially, they are there to be athletes 1st. They see basketball as a step to playing somewhere for $$$$$. It could be that in the lesser sports, the players know there is little or no chance to play their sport professionally.  And before anyone says anything, there are some very good students in all the sports, but in a couple of the sports, the student part is secondary to being an athlete. 
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AlmaHog2011

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Would really make the games same as the NFL.

IMO would destroy college sports they would be nothing more than an NFL triple a organization. Free college is more than enough. It's up to the athletes to use the ball and allow themselves to be used.
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AlmaHog2011

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If the government stays out of it with their awful laws, the market would decide what each player gets.  That is, paid what they are worth based on the law of supply and demand.  Most players would be lucky to get a full scholarship because that's all they are worth. A few players would be paid considerably more than that from a few thousand to a million dollars or more.

Even for the top players, there would be little, if any, payment for sports that don't make a profit and that don't have a lot of fans going to their events.

It would destroy the game of Football and Basketball. If it ever happens college sports will be a totally different type atmosphere. Gone will be teams.
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hogsanity

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Would really make the games same as the NFL.

IMO would destroy college sports they would be nothing more than an NFL triple a organization. Free college is more than enough. It's up to the athletes to use the ball and allow themselves to be used.

The problem is it would only be done to keep players in a couple of sports and at a few schools really, happy. No one cares about the 3rd tackle at Wyoming, but the 3rd string tackle at Bama maybe a a 5 star Freshman that in 2 or 3 years is going to be a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. The 3rd string tackle at Wyoming is likely a former or current walkon, just living the dream of playing football one more time.
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Cinco de Hogo

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The problem is it would only be done to keep players in a couple of sports and at a few schools really, happy. No one cares about the 3rd tackle at Wyoming, but the 3rd string tackle at Bama maybe a a 5 star Freshman that in 2 or 3 years is going to be a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. The 3rd string tackle at Wyoming is likely a former or current walkon, just living the dream of playing football one more time.

The only problem is that only a very few programs can afford to pay ALL their athletes.  Personally I think about 115 programs need to kick the top 15 programs out of the NCAA and do THEIR on thing not the other way around.
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sickboy

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I don't know, but I'd relish the day when I wouldn't have to listen to grown men and women argue about what's best/equitable for a bunch of 18-22 year olds.
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Porked Tongue

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They get checks each semester if they are in good standing.

Most often they blow it on crap like tattoos and watches.
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HoopS

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I don't know, but I'd relish the day when I wouldn't have to listen to grown men and women argue about what's best/equitable for a bunch of 18-22 year olds.
once youíre a dad of one, you may be leading the charge.
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hogsanity

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The only problem is that only a very few programs can afford to pay ALL their athletes.  Personally I think about 115 programs need to kick the top 15 programs out of the NCAA and do THEIR on thing not the other way around.

Ok. But them many schools including Arkansas would lose a ton of media $
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Cinco de Hogo

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Ok. But them many schools including Arkansas would lose a ton of media $

Why?  Has anybody missed Norte Dame? Texas?   Itís a fallacy that the vast majority of college programs canít stand on their own feet.
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Pig in the Pokey

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You would also have to pay the women's basketball players.
you got to pay them equally, too.
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Pig in the Pokey

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They get checks each semester if they are in good standing.

Most often they blow it on crap like tattoos and watches.
I have tried and tried to explain to hv that they already get paid thousands per semester on TOP of room/board/tution/books , etc, but they just wont accept that here. Even though many posters here make less per year than these students.
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hogsanity

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Why?  Has anybody missed Norte Dame? Texas?   Itís a fallacy that the vast majority of college programs canít stand on their own feet.

You think the networks would pay for the sec what they pay now if Bama and GA or Bama and LSu or all three were no longer in it?
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hogsanity

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I have tried and tried to explain to hv that they already get paid thousands per semester on TOP of room/board/tution/books , etc, but they just wont accept that here. Even though many posters here make less per year than these students.

It is amazing how many people do not think a free ride to college is payment or a free ride plus some $ is not payment. Either they never went to college or at least never had to pay for it them self, or for their kids.
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Cinco de Hogo

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You think the networks would pay for the sec what they pay now if Bama and GA or Bama and LSu or all three were no longer in it?

The better question is why would they pay Bama and Georgia as much since the fans of the other 115 teams would stop watching them play.  Why would I watch them, they would have absolutely nothing to do with Arkansas or he Hogs chances of winning a NC.
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Pig in the Pokey

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National Football League teams are facing a significant threat to their finances because of a legal option available to nearly every janitor, teacher and cashier in America -- workers' compensation.

Playing professional football is inherently dangerous, but the known risks do not prevent players -- and former players -- from filing workers' compensation claims against teams, courts have ruled. And while an individual compensation award might cost a team just $20,000, the changing types of claims being filed could end up costing teams millions of dollars a year.

More and more, the long-term effects of head trauma are being cited in workers' compensation claims, experts told "Outside the Lines," and the yearslong medical-treatment payments teams might be on the hook for to cover such claims could add up to millions annually.


More than anything else, said one insurance broker who has worked with an NFL team on its workers' compensation benefits, the workers' compensation reality could be the one item that forces significant changes to how the game is played on the field. Linemen, for example, might not be allowed to crash into each other from three-point stances in the near future, said Duke Niedringhaus of J.W. Terrill, a St. Louis-based insurance firm that has brokered workers' compensation insurance for NFL teams.


Hall of Fame pitcher Jim Palmer of the Baltimore Orioles was among 1,980 workers' compensation claims filed just before AB 1309, which prohibits athletes who spent most of their careers playing for teams outside of California from filing claims in the state.

Pro Bowl lineman Conrad Dobler, for example, was never employed by a California team. But his California road games made Dobler, now 63, eligible to file a cumulative injury claim in the Golden State. In 2012 a workers' comp judge in Santa Ana granted him a $120,000 award, plus lifetime medical care, paid for by the Buffalo Bills.

Starting in 2006, rising awareness of the California option led to an explosion in claims for cumulative trauma. Between January 2006 and April 2013, some 4,400 claims were filed in the state by pro athletes, seven times more than over the previous 15 years, the Times analysis found.

Two-thirds of all the claims alleging cumulative injury in that time came from players who did not name a California team as the responsible employer.


Nationwide there are tens of thousands of claims. Some states getting sued by players that were on out of state teams suing the state where the game was. Legislation was being rushed through to stop it from professional players but no such legislation exists for college players, that would essentially be employees of state and private universities. Motanna, Marino, Lynn Swann.....doesn't matter how much money these guys have made, most were/are elgible to draw workman's comp, some until age 67.
I tried to go there with Hogville about this before. Da Nile
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logic

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It would destroy the game of Football and Basketball. If it ever happens college sports will be a totally different type atmosphere. Gone will be teams.
Players may will be treated better, like eliminating "set out a year rule" that no one else in the sports or any other profession has to do, and outstanding players may stay in college longer is about he only change. The teams will remain, just as they have through all the many changes over the last 100+ years.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Players may will be treated better, like eliminating "set out a year rule" that no one else in the sports or any other profession has to do, and outstanding players may stay in college longer is about he only change. The teams will remain, just as they have through all the many changes over the last 100+ years.

The ďteamsĒ donít matter, only the fans matter...otherwise no money at all.  No scholarships!
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NaturalStateReb

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You would also have to pay the women's basketball players.

I think this has a lot to do with it--it's got some serious Title IX implications.

Not only that, you're probably staring down a pretty considerable workers comp barrel. 
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NaturalStateReb

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It is amazing how many people do not think a free ride to college is payment or a free ride plus some $ is not payment. Either they never went to college or at least never had to pay for it them self, or for their kids.

Just ask my monthly payment to Sallie Mae.  I like to think of it as my other other mortgage.
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hogsanity

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The better question is why would they pay Bama and Georgia as much since the fans of the other 115 teams would stop watching them play.  Why would I watch them, they would have absolutely nothing to do with Arkansas or he Hogs chances of winning a NC.

Did not say they would pay Bama or GA anything. But if the other 115 or so NCAA fbs level football teams kicked the top 15 or so to the curb, the $ would go way down for everyone. CBS and ESPN are not paying the SEC for Vandy or AR or Mizzu. They dont pay the BIG10 for Illinois or MN & they don't pay the ACC for Wake Forest
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Cinco de Hogo

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Did not say they would pay Bama or GA anything. But if the other 115 or so NCAA fbs level football teams kicked the top 15 or so to the curb, the $ would go way down for everyone. CBS and ESPN are not paying the SEC for Vandy or AR or Mizzu. They dont pay the BIG10 for Illinois or MN & they don't pay the ACC for Wake Forest

They would if those were the games people were watching.   Fans like sports and they are very fond of amateur athletics in particular. 
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hogsanity

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They would if those were the games people were watching.   Fans like sports and they are very fond of amateur athletics in particular. 

Maybe. or maybe college football is like nascar, an excuse to get together and get drunk and maybe see someone die.

Or just as likely people finally drop the charade of amature sports being represented by the NFL minor leagues that are the p5 conferences. If you really want to watch amature sports, go watch dIII or NAIA.
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Cotton

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They would if those were the games people were watching.   Fans like sports and they are very fond of amateur athletics in particular.
I don't give two spits about Amateur athletics.  Our Minor league university system is a crock.  Time to get on page with the rest of the world.
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