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Author Topic: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports  (Read 3038 times)

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hawgfan4life

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2018, 03:50:58 pm »

Only difference is I am not sitting behind the bench saying anything during the game. Although, following your logic, it would be perfectly ok to do so.

And you never pass up the chance to prove you are the perfect example of the jackwagon 311 was just talking about.

See!  You completely fail to see your role in the problem of our society while still touting your view.  You firmly believe that it is acceptable to bash the coach on a public forum because you aren't doing it in person, yet you get on that same forum bashing anyone questioning any official.  Poster states he dislikes officials that don't know the rules and you defend the officials because they don't have experience.  I can tell you I have seen officials with several years of experience make stupid rulings and not know the rules.  Lets clarify your stance with a yes or no.  Do you believe it is okay for you to come on any public forum and bash any coach?  I will answer for you because you do it by the hour every day.  YES!  Do you believe it is okay to ever complain about officials?  I will answer for you because you have never once that I can remember empathize with a poster about poor officials.  NO!

No argument from me.  I absolutely recognize I can be a jackwagon when it comes to certain posts or posters.

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YoMama

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2018, 03:58:22 pm »

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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2018, 04:18:02 pm »

Youth baseball is just as bad.
We had a mom of a 9 yr old player follow the umpires into the umpire room after the game last season just raking them up and down because she was convinced they were cheating their team.  Yeah, some teenage high school kids are cheating for a specific team in a 9 yr old rec league baseball game.
Parents ruin the whole thing, they're freakin' crazy these days.

Agree some are crazy...I have officiated mostly basketball and softball and have seen more dirty officials. Have been asked to cheat by officials and I have seen somethings that you just wouldn't think possible. I might have called a bad game or two in my day IMO basketball is impossible to do a perfect job. I never cheated and most times would know people on both teams.

I miss the games! I really miss the kids! I don't miss the idiots! I hate the dishonesty and I mean there is more than you would ever believe. Once was a spectator at a playoff game in Oklahoma and one of the refs played on the same softball team as one of the coaches for years, close friends. He called two early fouls on the other teams all state player and a third foul early in the second quarter. His friends team won the game it was because their stud player had to sit a lot of the game and when she did play had to make sure not to touch anybody. If she is allowed to play that game would not have been close.

Just saying officials are some bad and fans are some bad. Had a few offer to meet after the game and never actually had one show up!!  Still I miss it! It's about doing an even game letting both teams players decide the game.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2018, 04:18:38 pm »

In case you missed it.... I agree with Frank Martin on this

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/03/frank-martin-sports-parents-rant-south-carolina-college-basketball

Honestly Frank Martin is FOS! Not a fan.
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2018, 03:23:44 pm »

Honestly Frank Martin is FOS! Not a fan.

what in that article makes you think Martin is FOS? The part where parents should not coach from the stands or the part where they should not harass the refs in a 4th grade game?
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2018, 03:29:12 pm »

Agree some are crazy...I have officiated mostly basketball and softball and have seen more dirty officials. Have been asked to cheat by officials and I have seen somethings that you just wouldn't think possible. I might have called a bad game or two in my day IMO basketball is impossible to do a perfect job. I never cheated and most times would know people on both teams.

I miss the games! I really miss the kids! I don't miss the idiots! I hate the dishonesty and I mean there is more than you would ever believe. Once was a spectator at a playoff game in Oklahoma and one of the refs played on the same softball team as one of the coaches for years, close friends. He called two early fouls on the other teams all state player and a third foul early in the second quarter. His friends team won the game it was because their stud player had to sit a lot of the game and when she did play had to make sure not to touch anybody. If she is allowed to play that game would not have been close.

Just saying officials are some bad and fans are some bad. Had a few offer to meet after the game and never actually had one show up!!  Still I miss it! It's about doing an even game letting both teams players decide the game.

I've been calling for years, and coaching youth league stuff for 15 years ( this is my 1st yr not coaching since 2003 ) and I have never once been approached by a coach or official to do anything dishonest.

The scenario you laid out about the ref being a close friend of the coach is why in our association we don't call the varsity games in the area we are located in. IF you work a jv game here, when you get done the varsity crew will be here and it is not uncommon for them to be from 2 or 3 hours away, to help avoid the very thing you mentioned. Problem with that is, someone from our area has to go 2 or 3 hours away for the same reason. I got called on short notice this season to go do a varsity night, my drive was almost 90 mins , and the two guys I was there with came 90 mins as well but from another part of the state. Never called basketball in OK, but I have done baseball and football there.
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oldbear

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2018, 01:51:25 pm »

I guess my favorite call from a softball ump happened in Chattanooga. A ball was hit down the first base line. It hit the outside corner of the bag. The ump immediately calls foul ball. The coach tells out, "it hit the bag." The ump immediately replied, "it hit the foul side."

It was so funny no one could even argue. And I was even sitting in the stands with the little people for that one sanity.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2018, 02:04:44 pm »

I'd be curious to know how many officials we have on the board.  Not parents who get pulled out of the stands to umpire the third base line for little league games, but those that are currently certified by their state governing body to officiate either football, baseball or basketball.

Hogsanity, I know you're one.
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2018, 03:07:21 pm »

I guess my favorite call from a softball ump happened in Chattanooga. A ball was hit down the first base line. It hit the outside corner of the bag. The ump immediately calls foul ball. The coach tells out, "it hit the bag." The ump immediately replied, "it hit the foul side."

It was so funny no one could even argue. And I was even sitting in the stands with the little people for that one sanity.

Oh that's so stupid it is funny for sure.
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Bobby Bobo

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2018, 03:18:05 pm »

awesome thread
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2018, 08:54:05 am »

I'd be curious to know how many officials we have on the board.  Not parents who get pulled out of the stands to umpire the third base line for little league games, but those that are currently certified by their state governing body to officiate either football, baseball or basketball.

Hogsanity, I know you're one.

Guess it's just you and me.
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311Hog

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2018, 09:32:28 am »

I'd be curious to know how many officials we have on the board.  Not parents who get pulled out of the stands to umpire the third base line for little league games, but those that are currently certified by their state governing body to officiate either football, baseball or basketball.

Hogsanity, I know you're one.

i am not but i did ref girls and boys club basketball and football games for a few seasons (my kids were not involved).  it was a cool weekend side job until it became way more trouble than it was worth, due exclusively to "parents" on the sidelines. I actually considered being more serious about it as i had a friend (former hog track guy) who got me into it and does do it professionally encouraging me, but i just couldn't deal with that level of stress and my day job it made me not like the game.
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oldfart

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2018, 10:00:28 am »

i am no longer but did for many years
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GTOWNHOG

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2018, 01:09:01 pm »

Yesterday, I had a gentleman at my home doing some repair work.  He told me that he had been a football and basketball referee in Arkansas since 1973.  He works mainly in Northeast Arkansas.  Initially he worked the public schools and he had some really interesting stories about his interactions with Coaches and a few fans over his career.  He is now 68 and he is still working (although on the private school circuit).   He said the the average age for a high school referee in Arkansas is 56.  Very few young refs are coming up because after a few years, they quit because of the abuse that they get from Coaches and Fans.... This will eventually affect College football if we don't clean up our acts..
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2018, 01:18:08 pm »

Yesterday, I had a gentleman at my home doing some repair work.  He told me that he had been a football and basketball referee in Arkansas since 1973.  He works mainly in Northeast Arkansas.  Initially he worked the public schools and he had some really interesting stories about his interactions with Coaches and a few fans over his career.  He is now 68 and he is still working (although on the private school circuit).   He said the the average age for a high school referee in Arkansas is 56.  Very few young refs are coming up because after a few years, they quit because of the abuse that they get from Coaches and Fans.... This will eventually affect College football if we don't clean up our acts..

Already is affecting fcs level. One conference last year had to hold what was basically open tryouts to fill 5 or 6 spots on crews in August, less than 3 weeks before the season started. Hired those guys right from the HS ranks. Which meant 6 or 7 hs crews lost quality officials, which meant they had to be replaced right before the season started.

The other way it affects things is that guys that really should not be on the field anymore get talked into staying around because there is no one to replace them.
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Tusk21

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2018, 03:15:42 pm »

I'd be curious to know how many officials we have on the board.  Not parents who get pulled out of the stands to umpire the third base line for little league games, but those that are currently certified by their state governing body to officiate either football, baseball or basketball.

Hogsanity, I know you're one.
I just started this year. I am officiating in Babe Ruth League to learn/experience the mechanics of umpiring, prior to officiating HS games. (I've got three years before my son graduates and no longer plays, so that should give me plenty of time to hone the skills, reaction time, vision, and art of dealing with coaches.) There is much more to it than I had imagined! 
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PintailKiller

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2018, 03:24:54 pm »

In Arkansas, contact with an official is a felony. Was it the state USSSA director or USSSA national that suspended him? I work tourneys in Ar and Ok and have never seen anyone from USSSA not back the umpires. Not saying it did not happen, but I wonder if there is more to the story.

The ump filed charges against the parent.  USSSA said he could not ump any games until all legal matters were settled.
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HoopS

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2018, 03:58:55 pm »

I used to.

I also coach and am a parent of players.

Parents who are take it over the top serious ruin it. From all aspects.

We Love your Kids. Most of them are great and Iíd do anything to help them.

But some of these parents are over the top ridiculous.

I suspect many never played a lick or if they did they werenít very good. Some just are jerks.

Iím fortunate enough I can watch a game and see calls that go against my team and realize the call was right. Some canít. Ever. And itís embarrassing when they pipe up. Good grief folks. Just relax and enjoy your children while youíve got them.
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2018, 04:18:42 pm »

The ump filed charges against the parent.  USSSA said he could not ump any games until all legal matters were settled.

I guess I can see their point on that. Definitely would not want to run the risk of him having another run in while this is still pending.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2018, 11:47:53 am »

I expect it to get worse before it gets better.
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hawkhawg

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2018, 12:07:00 pm »

He is now 68 and he is still working (although on the private school circuit).   

I have done some assigning.  Twenty years ago it was hard to get a good ref to do Private/Christian Schools.  Now a lot of the more experienced guys that call college only want the private school games.
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Rocket23

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2018, 12:17:39 pm »

Started my senior year in college and have been officiating for 30 years.  Started in NWA, now located in Central Arkansas.  Fans are bad in all corners of the state, but I feel it is much more personal on the high school level than the college game.  I also have NEVER met an official at any level that I thought was cheating or that mentioned anything other than calling it fair.
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2018, 01:31:54 pm »

Started my senior year in college and have been officiating for 30 years.  Started in NWA, now located in Central Arkansas.  Fans are bad in all corners of the state, but I feel it is much more personal on the high school level than the college game.  I also have NEVER met an official at any level that I thought was cheating or that mentioned anything other than calling it fair.

I don't buy the people who post here saying they know refs that have been asked to throw games or that have admitted they call things to favor one team, etc. Do I think it happens, yes, do I think it is to the level people her want to act like, no. Especially in the games the people these posters claim to know are officiating. What incentive does anyone have to shaft some 10 yr old rec league team or the baseball team from some town they have never been too before? Just does not ring true.
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oldbear

Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2018, 08:21:31 am »

I I had a very interesting conversation with my old softball coaching partner this morning. It seems that my perspective for my previous comments may have been somewhat lacking.

I have been out of the game now for 5 years. I have attended a very few tournament games. I do attend a lot of high school football games now but most of the time I am in the press box working.

I was told this morning that parents and coaches are now far worse than I had ever seen. We had a couple of tournaments where people were out of hand but what was described to me is that the norm today is the worst that we ever saw back then.

All I can say is if that's the case, good luck guys because that's awful.
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hogsanity

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Re: Referee shortage threatens to alter youth sports
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2018, 08:43:39 am »

I I had a very interesting conversation with my old softball coaching partner this morning. It seems that my perspective for my previous comments may have been somewhat lacking.

I have been out of the game now for 5 years. I have attended a very few tournament games. I do attend a lot of high school football games now but most of the time I am in the press box working.

I was told this morning that parents and coaches are now far worse than I had ever seen. We had a couple of tournaments where people were out of hand but what was described to me is that the norm today is the worst that we ever saw back then.

All I can say is if that's the case, good luck guys because that's awful.

Things get said and done at games now, from the fans, that in my 48 years I had never seen or heard until maybe the last 4 or 5 years. The worst part though is how many people think it is acceptable, even if they are not partaking in the behavior. We've seen comments to that effect in this thread. For some reason it has become ok for people to act and say whatever they want at kids sporting events.
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