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Author Topic: Mizzou basketball and transfers  (Read 17321 times)

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exit19

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Mizzou basketball and transfers
« on: March 10, 2012, 07:00:06 pm »

1) if Haith is the reason for Mizzou's turnaround, why was he such an awful coach at Miami?  He never got above .500 in league play in 8 years in the ACC.  Both Stan and Pel could even get above .500.   So why did he wait until showing up in Columbia to start coaching 'good'?   What was he waiting on in Miami?  Was he not trying?  Or was he trying, and failing?

2) if the answer to the above is "he has better players at Mizzou", who brought those players to Missouri in the first place?   and, not having good players in Miami Florida of all places falls on Haith, if that's the reason.  so if he has a track record of poor recruiting, how will he suddenly become an awesome recruiter?  Again, what was Haith waiting on, if he has this great recruiting ability deep down inside?

It's strange.  the way Mizzou fans on here talk, Frank Haith is 10 times the coach and 10 times the recruiter Mike Anderson was.   BUT IF THIS IS TRUE - Why didn't he coach or recruit at Miami? What was he waiting on?

Serious question for the Mizzou trolls.  Because to me it seems illogical, or even irrational.  So I'd like to know y'alls take.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 07:01:49 pm by exit19 »
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The_Iceman

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 07:07:33 pm »

Reminds me a lot of Ole Miss fans a few years ago.
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Hot_Town_Hog

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 07:14:17 pm »

Interesting question...not sure a positive spin can be put on that in terms of Haith's coaching ability.
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HoginClinton

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 07:15:03 pm »

1) if Haith is the reason for Mizzou's turnaround, why was he such an awful coach at Miami?  He never got above .500 in league play in 8 years in the ACC.  Both Stan and Pel could even get above .500.   So why did he wait until showing up in Columbia to start coaching 'good'?   What was he waiting on in Miami?  Was he not trying?  Or was he trying, and failing?

2) if the answer to the above is "he has better players at Mizzou", who brought those players to Missouri in the first place?   and, not having good players in Miami Florida of all places falls on Haith, if that's the reason.  so if he has a track record of poor recruiting, how will he suddenly become an awesome recruiter?  Again, what was Haith waiting on, if he has this great recruiting ability deep down inside?

It's strange.  the way Mizzou fans on here talk, Frank Haith is 10 times the coach and 10 times the recruiter Mike Anderson was.   BUT IF THIS IS TRUE - Why didn't he coach or recruit at Miami? What was he waiting on?

Serious question for the Mizzou trolls.  Because to me it seems illogical, or even irrational.  So I'd like to know y'alls take.
Even though you aren't talking to me, I will answer. Miami is crap. They are no where near Arkansas or Missouri's level. Shoot, I would put UAB above them.  '

P.S. Don't be surprised if some them come on here talking how Haith lead them to their greatest season ever.
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code red

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 07:18:21 pm »

Mizzou has been building this for a while......exposure in the NCAA's helps recruiting...don't cha think??
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BigSexyHog

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 07:24:09 pm »

How many seniors are they losing?
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swmofan

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 07:34:47 pm »

1) if Haith is the reason for Mizzou's turnaround, why was he such an awful coach at Miami?  He never got above .500 in league play in 8 years in the ACC.  Both Stan and Pel could even get above .500.   So why did he wait until showing up in Columbia to start coaching 'good'?   What was he waiting on in Miami?  Was he not trying?  Or was he trying, and failing?

2) if the answer to the above is "he has better players at Mizzou", who brought those players to Missouri in the first place?   and, not having good players in Miami Florida of all places falls on Haith, if that's the reason.  so if he has a track record of poor recruiting, how will he suddenly become an awesome recruiter?  Again, what was Haith waiting on, if he has this great recruiting ability deep down inside?

It's strange.  the way Mizzou fans on here talk, Frank Haith is 10 times the coach and 10 times the recruiter Mike Anderson was.   BUT IF THIS IS TRUE - Why didn't he coach or recruit at Miami? What was he waiting on?

Serious question for the Mizzou trolls.  Because to me it seems illogical, or even irrational.  So I'd like to know y'alls take.
Miami is not a good basketball school, coaches have to start somewhere and move up.  When you are playing Duke, NC, and Maryland 2-3 times a year your not going to have a great conference record.  Mizzou is a way better basketball program and can attract better players then Miami.  Miami is also competing with all the other Florida schools.  Anderson got them in great shape and got the players, but i believe Haith utilized those players better and played with better chemistry on the offensive end.
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The Boar War

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 07:35:29 pm »

How many seniors are they losing?

Four.  Including three of their starting five.
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BobbyFischer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 07:38:24 pm »

Haith sucks. There. I said. I hope everyone is happy that Haith really sucks. Next year, Mizzou will suck even more. We are Sun Belt worthy at best. Even then, we'll struggle.
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Albert Swinestein

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 07:38:38 pm »

Frank Haith was actually the winningest coach they had since the 1950's-1960's.  They had probably the best 3-4 year run in their school's modern history under him, and he inherited a pretty weak team.  For Miami, he did very well.  Better than coaches such as Leonard Hamilton and Perry Clark.  I am not sure what I think about him as a coach.  With that said, he has his work cut out for him over the next couple of years, and I think the next 3 years at Missouri will be worse than the next 3 years for Arkansas, as they lose a lot of seniors this year. 
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HF#1

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2012, 07:41:47 pm »

Mizzou will suck after this year, period.
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BobbyFischer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2012, 07:43:07 pm »

Mizzou will suck after this year, period.
You are correct.
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HF#1

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 07:48:14 pm »

You are correct.

Can we quit talking about their program now?  I don't give a rats ass about Mizzou basketball.
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Mizzoufan1

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 07:50:08 pm »

You guys are hilarious, keep up the good work.
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medloh

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 07:50:22 pm »

Mizzou will suck after this year, period.

Don't think so.  I'm optimistic that Mizzou will be pretty good next year.  Here's why:

They will have great guards with Dixon and P. Pressy back.  Probably the best two guard combo in the country next year.  They will get Bower back for his fifth year.  He was about their best player toward the end of last year.  They have 3 legit transfers coming in:  Jabari Brown - 5 Star recruit at Oregon last year.  Keion Bell - Led Pepperdine in scoring.  Earnest Ross - Auburn MVP last year.  They have several 3 star freshmen coming in.

May take a while for the team to gel.  I don't expect this kind of success next year, but I expect them to make the NCAA tourney.  Lots of upside.

Name a coach at Miami that has had success in basketball.  Haith has done better than anyone at Miami.
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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 07:50:31 pm »

Frank Haith is the winningest coach in Miami history.

The second guy on the list? He's coaching for an ACC championship tomorrow at Florida State after beating Duke today (for the second time this year).

No one wins at Miami.

Haith does have better talent at Mizzou than he had at Miami. Yes, you can pat yourself on the back for having the coach who signed these guys. I'm content with having the guy who actually made them into a team.
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HF#1

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 07:52:06 pm »

Don't think so.  I'm optimistic that Mizzou will be pretty good next year.  Here's why:

They will have great guards with Dixon and P. Pressy back.  Probably the best two guard combo in the country next year.  They will get Bower back for his fifth year.  He was about their best player toward the end of last year.  They have 3 legit transfers coming in:  Jabari Brown - 5 Star recruit at Oregon last year.  Keion Bell - Led Pepperdine in scoring.  Earnest Ross - Auburn MVP last year.  They have several 3 star freshmen coming in.

May take a while for the team to gel.  I don't expect this kind of success next year, but I expect them to make the NCAA tourney.  Lots of upside.

Name a coach at Miami that has had success in basketball.  Haith has done better than anyone at Miami.

Create a message board and go talk about them there.
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HF#1

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 07:52:29 pm »

Frank Haith is the winningest coach in Miami history.

The second guy on the list? He's coaching for an ACC championship tomorrow at Florida State after beating Duke today (for the second time this year).

No one wins at Miami.

Haith does have better talent at Mizzou than he had at Miami. Yes, you can pat yourself on the back for having the coach who signed these guys. I'm content with having the guy who actually made them into a team.

Good for you.
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BobbyFischer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 07:53:13 pm »

Can we quit talking about their program now?  I don't give a rats ass about Mizzou basketball.
Then why contribute to a thread about it? 
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The Boar War

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 07:55:13 pm »

Yes, you can pat yourself on the back for having the coach who signed these guys. I'm content with having the guy who actually made them into a team.






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MissouriFan

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 07:58:02 pm »

Four.  Including three of their starting five.

More than that actually.  We are losing 5 of our current 7 man team.  English, M. Pressey, Denmon, Moore, and Ratliffe are all seniors. 

Next season we should still be good though after a few growing pains.  Both of our PG's return in Phil Pressey and Michael Dixon, we get Laurence Bowers back (missed this season with a torn ACL), and Haith was able to add some talented transfers that have been practicing with the team.  Bowers would have been our second returning scorer and best returning rebounder this year.

The transfers that are

Keion Bell who was Pepperdine's leading scorer with 18.9 pts per game.

Earnest Ross who was Auburns leading scorer and rebounder with 13.1 pts and 6.6 rebounds.

Jabari Brown who was a 5 star recruit last year.  He played two games for Oregon and decided he made a mistake and transfered.

Besides the transfers we've also got a juco big and some freshman that will add to the team.  With so many new players chemistry and players knowing their roles are my only big concerns for next season.   The Tigers playing in an over seas pre-season tournament should help some with this though.
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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 08:01:28 pm »

Good for you.

You do realize Arkansas started this thread, right?

You guys are cute with that Houston Nutt comparison.
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HogFoo

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 08:10:23 pm »

i look forward to mike showing who the better coach is.   i dont think its going to be that big of a deal either.  the hogs will be on top again.  i think mizzou will have a ed orgeron to nuttsack experience in the years to come 
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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2012, 08:13:48 pm »

or, to put it another way, he was actually one of the worst coaches in miami history.  he was so mediocre, he didn't get hired for a different job after 3 or 4 years like his predecessors!

but some coaches actuallly break .500 in league play, and they get hired elsewhere.

there's that thing again "he made them into a team".   really?   so why didn't he do what each of his predecessors did -- get his team to .500 in confeernce?  why didnt he end up like leonard hamiltion and get hired away somewhere after his amazing run to 8-8 that one year?

i'm just floored at the defensive mechanism sentiment that Mizzou fans have -- "mike was running out of steam, but HAITH SAVED THE DAY!"     

okay, if i accept that, then why didn't Haith save the day in miami?  why didn't he recruit better?  why didn't he coach better?  why didn't other teams see his super-secret coaching ability and offer him jobs?  why did nobody come after him for a job in the 8 years he was sucking at miami?

That's the thing.  mizzou fans walk around saying "our guy was horrible at his last job, no one wanted him, he couldnt win or recruit there, but now that he's at mizzou he's a good coach!"

if a dog will bite he'll do it as a pup.  coach K won at army or navy or wherever he was.  ditto bobby knight.  NBA's rick carlisle has won at every stop he's been on.  isaiah thomas has sucked everywhere he's been.    stan heath has been mediocre, with aabout a 22 win ceiling. 

you expect us to believe haith has a superman cape he was waiting 8 years to put on.

so... my question is..... what was he waiting on??????

Mizzou's success really bothers you, doesn't it?

FYI, Mike Krzyzewski's winning percentage at Army was worse than Haith's at Miami (and he was 38-47 in his first three years at Duke... a program that won 24 games the year before he got there).
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PonderinHog

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2012, 08:18:14 pm »

Think Pelphrey's first year, except Haith had a better predecessor. 8)
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mmhogs17

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2012, 08:19:30 pm »

Mizzou's success really bothers you, doesn't it?

FYI, Mike Krzyzewski's winning percentage at Army was worse than Haith's at Miami (and he was 38-47 in his first three years at Duke... a program that won 24 games the year before he got there).

LOLZ. So Haith = Coach K?

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mmhogs17

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2012, 08:20:37 pm »

Haith is still screwing Miami even when he isn't there. They were projected to make the NCAA Tourney until their leader scorer was ruled ineligible the other day because he took money from the previous coaching staff.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2012, 08:21:22 pm »








I'm quoting so Mizzou fans can see it again.
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Danny J

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2012, 08:22:20 pm »

Think Pelphrey's first year, except Haith had a better predecessor. 8)
Correct...but haith has done a good job so far....can't deny that. I was watching their game and thinking to myself....could another coach have won any more games with a limited roster at mizzou. Could coach K? They have lost a total of 4 games and just won their conference tournament. You have to give him some credit...like it or not. Lets see if he can sustain it. Track record at miami says.....no. We shall see.
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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2012, 08:29:33 pm »

no it doesnt bother me.  contrary to what mizzou fans think, arkansas isn't obsessed with them like mizzou is obsessed with us.  your trolls come to our board every day, our guys never go over to yalls.  you people talk about the cotton bowl 2007 like its a trophy, we dont even mention the 03 independence bowl.

but... since you asked....

All i wanted to know were the answers to my first 2 questions:

-if haith is such a good coach, why did he suck so so bad at miami, where he had 0 job offers from anyone in 8 years

and,

-if the excuse is 'its hard to get good players to miami', that means he cant recruit, so how will he recruit to columbia missouri?  mizzou had a nice run this year but again lets not pretend they are a historical basketball power.

just looking for 2 answers!

Yeah, clearly you're unphased by Mizzou's success. Isn't weighing on you at all...

I answered your first question. He struggled at Miami because everyone struggles at Miami. No one in that city cares about the program. They get low-major support in a major conference. Any good player who cares about basketball is going to have better options than Miami. The lure of the city is going to attract guys who aren't dedicated to the game. They have pathetic facilities, zero crowd support, compete against two good in-state programs, and they're in a conference with several basketball schools. It's a setup for failure for almost any coach.

And like I said, Haith had a better winning percentage there than anyone in their history.

As to your second question, I recommend you review your logic. Miami being a difficult school to recruit to does not mean any coach at Miami is a bad recruiter. He faced inherent disadvantages at Miami. He doesn't at Mizzou. Choose to believe what you want.

LOLZ. So Haith = Coach K?

Yes. Clearly that's what I said.

Haith is still screwing Miami even when he isn't there. They were projected to make the NCAA Tourney until their leader scorer was ruled ineligible the other day because he took money from the previous coaching staff.

You got a link to that?

Because there's a big difference between a player using a coach's frequent flyer miles (what Reggie Johnson supposedly did) and taking cash.

I'm quoting so Mizzou fans can see it again.

Keep quoting it. I enjoy your insecurity and small lack of perspective.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2012, 08:29:35 pm »

Correct...but haith has done a good job so far....can't deny that. I was watching their game and thinking to myself....could another coach have won any more games with a limited roster at mizzou. Could coach K? They have lost a total of 4 games and just won their conference tournament. You have to give him some credit...like it or not. Lets see if he can sustain it. Track record at miami says.....no. We shall see.
They look like a pretty good team.  Tonight was the first time I watched them this year.  They might make it to the elite eight.
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mmhogs17

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2012, 08:36:06 pm »

I've watched Mizzou several times this year, and they run very little offense. They like to pass it around until they find a three point shot, luckily they have very good shooters. They have a couple good big men down low and they like to play catch on the perimeter. I give him credit for getting the players to buy in and getting behind him when the fans said "WTH?" They're going to have to start feeding Ratliffe and Moore if they want to make a Tourney run or they'll get destroyed by the 1st team with a legit big guy.

But they're going to regress alot next season because of graduation and the class coming in for Mizzou is very "Eh".

 Haith has shown he can win with somebody elses players, but can he do something he hasn't done, win with his own players?
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MissouriFan

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2012, 08:36:28 pm »

1) if Haith is the reason for Mizzou's turnaround, why was he such an awful coach at Miami?  He never got above .500 in league play in 8 years in the ACC.  Both Stan and Pel could even get above .500.   So why did he wait until showing up in Columbia to start coaching 'good'?   What was he waiting on in Miami?  Was he not trying?  Or was he trying, and failing?

2) if the answer to the above is "he has better players at Mizzou", who brought those players to Missouri in the first place?   and, not having good players in Miami Florida of all places falls on Haith, if that's the reason.  so if he has a track record of poor recruiting, how will he suddenly become an awesome recruiter?  Again, what was Haith waiting on, if he has this great recruiting ability deep down inside?

It's strange.  the way Mizzou fans on here talk, Frank Haith is 10 times the coach and 10 times the recruiter Mike Anderson was.   BUT IF THIS IS TRUE - Why didn't he coach or recruit at Miami? What was he waiting on?

Serious question for the Mizzou trolls.  Because to me it seems illogical, or even irrational.  So I'd like to know y'alls take.

While I don't consider myself a troll I will try to answer some of your questions.  I think a lot of Hog fans seem to want to say the success is all on the players Anderson recruited and want to believe this is a sign that good times are ahead for Arkansas.  Some Missouri fans on the other hand don't like the way Anderson left or the way his final season at MU went.  They want to believe the success is all on Haith and his staff.  As with most things in life I don't think it is that black and white.  The truth is somewhere in the grey area in between. 

Anderson deserves plenty of credit for building our program back up from the mess that quin left it in, for bringing in these players, and for some of the things he tought them, you can see some of that with this team in their active hands and great passes in transition.  Haith however also deserves credit.  He took over a team that went 23-11 (8-8) and has taken them to 30-4 (14-4) and Big 12 tournament champs with the NCAA tournament still to go.  Haith brought in a different strength coach that really helped get the guys stronger, he ran set plays on offense to get certain guys the ball at the right time, Haith uses a lot more picks and screens than Anderson ever did and obviously uses a lot less pressing,  he also emphasized rebounding and blocking out which was a very welcome change.  Also have to give Haith credit for the adjustments he made after Bowers went down.  Going small with the 4 guard line up has for the most part worked great.


As for why he struggled at Miami I have a couple of educated guesses.  First the more obvious answers are smaller budgets for things like staff/scheduling/recruiting/traveling and significantly less fan support.  Miami has literally had games with less than three thousand in attendance.  I also don't think his staff was very good.  He hired them from mid-major programs and when he left they all ended up back at mid-major programs.  It is pretty telling that Haith brought so few of his staff with him to Mizzou.  At Mizzou he had a much larger budget for his staff and hired his assistants from Louisville, Penn State, and Murray State.  The huge upgrade in staff has I believe really helped him this year. 

Also at Miami Haith seemed to focus more on combo guards than true point guards.  I looked it up in rivals database and in 7 seasons he signed a total of 3 point guards.  One never made it to campus and the other two transfered each after two seasons.  I really believe getting to work with and watch Pressey and Dixon has changed his view on that.  We already have another good PG committed for 2013 and are heavily recruiting others for both 2013 and 2014.   PG play is actually one of the reasons I am optimistic about our future.  Next year we have Dixon and Pressey again, the year after that we have Pressey, and Jorgenson, and after that we will have Jorgenson and whichever PG Haith is able to land.

I really believe Haith realized he was given a second chance and was wiling to hire a great staff and listen to them.  It's also obvious he has leaned from his time at Miami and made some adjustments.  Most coaches get their first head coaching experience at a mid-major playing a similar level of competition in their conference, Haith on the other hand had to learn at a doormat program that doesn't support hoops against the ACC.

I'm not sure why there is so much arguing between the fan bases.  It seems like each school should be happy with the way things ended up.  Sorry for the long post but I hope that helps explain things.
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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2012, 08:38:15 pm »

I've watched Mizzou several times this year, and they run very little offense. They like to pass it around until they find a three point shot, luckily they have very good shooters. They have a couple good big men down low and they like to play catch on the perimeter. I give him credit for getting the players to buy in and getting behind him when the fans said "WTH?" They're going to have to start feeding Ratliffe and Moore if they want to make a Tourney run or they'll get destroyed by the 1st team with a legit big guy.

But they're going to regress alot next season because of graduation and the class coming in for Mizzou is very "Eh".

 Haith has shown he can win with somebody elses players, but can he do something he hasn't done, win with his own players?

You're not much of a basketball fan, are you?

I'm assuming that because I'm sure anyone who actually took an active interest in the game wouldn't post something so ridiculous.
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mmhogs17

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2012, 08:38:44 pm »

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Sawyer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2012, 08:42:44 pm »

Let me correct myself, I had Scott's and Johnson's case mixed up.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7668051/miami-hurricanes-top-durand-scorer-scott-ineligible-benefits

No, you were clear.

But like I said, there's nothing there about cash.

From what I've read, it's a situation similar to Johnson's, which was a family member using an assistant coach's frequent flyer miles.

The NCAA would find violations at any school if they looked hard enough. I doubt they uncover anything about Haith that follows him to Mizzou.
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thegrizz

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2012, 08:47:07 pm »

I realize it is a small minority on here. But you guys start Mizzou threads, in this one actually ask for Mizzou fans opinions. Then scream and cry about all the Mizzou trolls to get off this board. I have grown to like this board. There is no question the board itself is far superior to tigerboard. But seriously, you guys discuss Mizzou alot. You tell us what a horrible program we have and what a terrible coach Haith is almost like you are trying to convince yourselves.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 08:57:03 pm by thegrizz »
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blkdayz

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2012, 10:27:17 pm »

You guys do realize that Anderson only had a .53 winning percentage in the Big 12 right?  He did a great job of taking over the mess than Snyder left and he gets credit for bringing these guys to Mizzou, but other than 1 very magical season where he went 12-4 he was a .500 coach in conference play.

As I've said on here before, Haith has to prove that he can win with his own players.  He has done a great job with MA's kids.
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GoHogs1091

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2012, 10:42:44 pm »

While I don't consider myself a troll I will try to answer some of your questions.  I think a lot of Hog fans seem to want to say the success is all on the players Anderson recruited and want to believe this is a sign that good times are ahead for Arkansas.  Some Missouri fans on the other hand don't like the way Anderson left or the way his final season at MU went.  They want to believe the success is all on Haith and his staff.  As with most things in life I don't think it is that black and white.  The truth is somewhere in the grey area in between. 

Anderson deserves plenty of credit for building our program back up from the mess that quin left it in, for bringing in these players, and for some of the things he tought them, you can see some of that with this team in their active hands and great passes in transition.  Haith however also deserves credit.  He took over a team that went 23-11 (8-8) and has taken them to 30-4 (14-4) and Big 12 tournament champs with the NCAA tournament still to go.  Haith brought in a different strength coach that really helped get the guys stronger, he ran set plays on offense to get certain guys the ball at the right time, Haith uses a lot more picks and screens than Anderson ever did and obviously uses a lot less pressing,  he also emphasized rebounding and blocking out which was a very welcome change.  Also have to give Haith credit for the adjustments he made after Bowers went down.  Going small with the 4 guard line up has for the most part worked great.


As for why he struggled at Miami I have a couple of educated guesses.  First the more obvious answers are smaller budgets for things like staff/scheduling/recruiting/traveling and significantly less fan support.  Miami has literally had games with less than three thousand in attendance.  I also don't think his staff was very good.  He hired them from mid-major programs and when he left they all ended up back at mid-major programs.  It is pretty telling that Haith brought so few of his staff with him to Mizzou.  At Mizzou he had a much larger budget for his staff and hired his assistants from Louisville, Penn State, and Murray State.  The huge upgrade in staff has I believe really helped him this year. 

Also at Miami Haith seemed to focus more on combo guards than true point guards.  I looked it up in rivals database and in 7 seasons he signed a total of 3 point guards.  One never made it to campus and the other two transfered each after two seasons.  I really believe getting to work with and watch Pressey and Dixon has changed his view on that.  We already have another good PG committed for 2013 and are heavily recruiting others for both 2013 and 2014.   PG play is actually one of the reasons I am optimistic about our future.  Next year we have Dixon and Pressey again, the year after that we have Pressey, and Jorgenson, and after that we will have Jorgenson and whichever PG Haith is able to land.

I really believe Haith realized he was given a second chance and was wiling to hire a great staff and listen to them.  It's also obvious he has leaned from his time at Miami and made some adjustments.  Most coaches get their first head coaching experience at a mid-major playing a similar level of competition in their conference, Haith on the other hand had to learn at a doormat program that doesn't support hoops against the ACC.

I'm not sure why there is so much arguing between the fan bases.  It seems like each school should be happy with the way things ended up.  Sorry for the long post but I hope that helps explain things.

The bottom line to yall's success this Season is not Haith.  The bottom line to yall's success this Season is Ricardo Ratliffe.

Ratliffe is the primary reason why yall are in the position yall are in (possible #1 Seed and a #2 Seed at worst).  Yall had better enjoy the remainder of yall's Season with Ratliffe.  It will be a long time before Missouri has another player that is the caliber of Ratliffe.     
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The Boar War

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2012, 11:06:03 pm »

  Haith brought in a different strength coach that really helped get the guys stronger,

Yeah.  I'm not sure if Deets is the answer for us.
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TGRLVR

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2012, 11:15:39 pm »

Haven't been on your site much so I can't meet the OP's qualification but one thing with Haith's staff does stand out in sharp contrast to Anderson's tenure in Columbia.  Anderson was often quoted while at Mizzou saying in effect "we don't prepare for any one opponent.  We play the way we want to and make our opponent adjust to us" - maybe he's said something along those lines at Arky?

Every single player for MU has gone out of his way at some point of the season to compliment Haith and his assistants for preparing them for every game.  They watch tape on their next opponent and break down tendencies.  Kim English said on ESPN today after the game that he credited MU's staff for highlighting tendencies and pointing out deficiencies in the opponent's defense in order to give them an edge.

I read with some amusement other posters on this thread commenting how MU doesn't run an offense and stood around until someone shot a 3.  Unless there was a turnover and a fast break you just encapsulated our experience with Mike Anderson's offense for three years.  The players openly complained about the lack of structure in Anderson's offense.

I would bet this is why other Mizzou fans  have been frequenting your board as I've gotten a really large dose of Deja vu while reading.  You are happy with Anderson and we're more than happy with Haith.  We'll see over the next couple of seasons which one of us is still pleased with our coach.
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BobbyFischer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2012, 11:21:30 pm »

Yeah.  I'm not sure if Deets is the answer for us.
It's just different. Deets gets them in 40 minutes style shape. They don't lift a lot of weights. It's more cardio type work. At least they didn't at Mizzou. Kim English gained a lot of muscle weight, about 15 more lbs or so. It really helped his game.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 10:52:16 am by BobbyFischer »
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ThreeWayInn

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2012, 12:35:06 am »

I think Haith's success can be attributed to a few things...as compared to Miami.

One....he has better players with more fan support

Two...he has surrounded himself with an entirely new staff.  A young coach from Pitino's staff that was Louisville's best recruiter.  Ernie Nestor who has worked on a lot of very good staff's and gets a lot of credit for coaching Tim Duncan but highly thought of as a very good tactician.

Three...he inherited some really good players that if nothing else....they learned how to practice and play really hard under Mike Anderson.

Four...he provided those good players with a little more structure that might actually better fit there skill sets.

With that said...players make the coaches...not the other way around.

If CMA brings those same kinds of players here...we will be very happy.
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Alphaman

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2012, 07:18:54 am »

I think Haith's success can be attributed to a few things...as compared to Miami.

One....he has better players with more fan support

Two...he has surrounded himself with an entirely new staff.  A young coach from Pitino's staff that was Louisville's best recruiter.  Ernie Nestor who has worked on a lot of very good staff's and gets a lot of credit for coaching Tim Duncan but highly thought of as a very good tactician.

Three...he inherited some really good players that if nothing else....they learned how to practice and play really hard under Mike Anderson.

Four...he provided those good players with a little more structure that might actually better fit there skill sets.

With that said...players make the coaches...not the other way around.

If CMA brings those same kinds of players here...we will be very happy.

Very well said.  I think the biggest difference between Haith at Mizzou and Haith at Miami is budget to hire a better coaching staff and fan support. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Anderson left Haith a talented group, but he also got hit with some immediate adversity:  1 transfer, 1 injury to key player, and then a mid season transfer.  The biggest difference in their coaching styles was the strength development, the emphasis on half court offense and defense and the study of the opponent.

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code red

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2012, 07:51:32 am »

Mizzou will suck after this year, period.
So will we
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code red

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2012, 07:56:11 am »

no it doesnt bother me.  contrary to what mizzou fans think, arkansas isn't obsessed with them like mizzou is obsessed with us.  your trolls come to our board every day, our guys never go over to yalls.  you people talk about the cotton bowl 2007 like its a trophy, we dont even mention the 03 independence bowl.

but... since you asked....

All i wanted to know were the answers to my first 2 questions:

-if haith is such a good coach, why did he suck so so bad at miami, where he had 0 job offers from anyone in 8 years

and,

-if the excuse is 'its hard to get good players to miami', that means he cant recruit, so how will he recruit to columbia missouri?  mizzou had a nice run this year but again lets not pretend they are a historical basketball power.

just looking for 2 answers!
Dude is 30-5 this year....I don't care what anyone says he has done a hell of a job this year and they WILL out recruit Mike beacause they are getting a 2 seed and making a run in the tourny.  Folks we are light years away....we have to recruit year in a year out like Mizzou, to play at their level.
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Boarcephus

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2012, 09:17:25 am »

The Missouri situation is eerily similar to what we saw in football 4 years ago.  Both Nutt and Haith are mediocre career coaches while Mike and Petrino have histories of success.   Petrino walked into a bad situation while Nutt walked into a gold mine.  Not to beat a dead horse here but Nutt did great till he ran through Ogerons players, got his then got fired.  Petrino got his butt whipped the first couple years then he also ran through Nutt's players, got his and we're looking great. 

I suspect we'll see the same thing in Missouri once Haith runs through Mike's players and Mike gets his own.   History has a way of repeating itself and we'll see it happen again in another 3-4 years if not sooner.
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BobbyFischer

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2012, 10:57:18 am »

The Missouri situation is eerily similar to what we saw in football 4 years ago.  Both Nutt and Haith are mediocre career coaches while Mike and Petrino have histories of success.   Petrino walked into a bad situation while Nutt walked into a gold mine.  Not to beat a dead horse here but Nutt did great till he ran through Ogerons players, got his then got fired.  Petrino got his butt whipped the first couple years then he also ran through Nutt's players, got his and we're looking great. 

I suspect we'll see the same thing in Missouri once Haith runs through Mike's players and Mike gets his own.   History has a way of repeating itself and we'll see it happen again in another 3-4 years if not sooner.
I haven't been on this board for long but one thing is becoming very clear on how Hog fans look at basketball. It's very clear that, not all, but a lot of people live on what happened 18 years ago and what might happen 3 or 4 years from now and refuse to live in the present. This, I find fascinating.
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Pudgepork

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2012, 11:07:19 am »

The comments about not preparing for each team so much as paying attention to how
we play comes straight from Nolan.  That style brought several final 4's and a National
Championship.  I think it worked fine until Petino took Nolans style, used it with all-
world basketball players and out-Nolaned Nolan.

Nolan used a deeeeeep bench and really good players to wear other teams down
physically.  Then scholarship reductions kicked in and shortened his bench. That and
ego helped bring Nolans career to a screeching halt.

At this point the Hogs dont have enough players to out-quick and wear down other teams. We'll have to see if 2 years from now we see a change. Basketball has changed so
much since Nolan coached that Im not sure if that style will work. Too many players who
are good enough to make that much of a difference are one and dones.

They go to the NBA so fast it just messes you up!!
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99toLife

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Re: Mizzou basketball and transfers
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2012, 11:21:54 am »

The comments about not preparing for each team so much as paying attention to how
we play comes straight from Nolan.  That style brought several final 4's and a National
Championship.  I think it worked fine until Petino took Nolans style, used it with all-
world basketball players and out-Nolaned Nolan.

Nolan used a deeeeeep bench and really good players to wear other teams down
physically.  Then scholarship reductions kicked in and shortened his bench. That and
ego helped bring Nolans career to a screeching halt.

At this point the Hogs dont have enough players to out-quick and wear down other teams. We'll have to see if 2 years from now we see a change. Basketball has changed so
much since Nolan coached that Im not sure if that style will work. Too many players who
are good enough to make that much of a difference are one and dones.

They go to the NBA so fast it just messes you up!!

Problem is that there are more time outs now, the hand check rule and the way referees call hand fouls now, and they stop the game now to review plays....has diminished the advantage of trying to run the other team into the ground..
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