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Author Topic: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.  (Read 1787 times)

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oldbooniehog

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Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« on: June 04, 2018, 09:44:38 pm »

Once again, it's almost summer, which means it's time for Hog football fans to wildly over-predict how "good" the Hogs will be in the SEC.

It's one of the things Hog fans do best.

Of course, folks who point out what the numbers say about Arkansas football in the SEC for the last quarter century aren't "true fans" and are guilty of having all sorts of evil foul agendas.

Here's a link to an article about the Hogs football history in the SEC that ran just before the 2017 season started.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-statistics-sec-1992-2017

Of course, the Hogs went 1-7 in SEC play last year, beating only Ole Miss. So you can factor in that dismal math to the numbers below, even though the numbers really don't change the results that much.

In SEC play, every single Arkansas coach has had a losing record, save for two. Barely.

In SEC league play, Houston Nutt went 42-38, or an awe-inspiring 52.5%

And Bobby Petrino, the most awesomest, bestest coach Arkansas could ever hope to get in a million jillion years went 17-15, or an eye-popping 53.1% in SEC play.

The two "best" coaches in Arkansas' entire SEC existence have been just a bit above 50% in SEC play. That's solidly mediocre, no matter how you slice it.

Against SEC teams, Arkansas owns an SEC winning record over exactly 4 other programs.

Ole Miss
Mississippi State
South Carolina
Vanderbilt.

That's setting the SEC world on fire, ain't it?

Arkansas has an all-time SEC losing record against every single other SEC team, which would be 9 total.

That includes both A&M (0-fer, since Aggies joined SEC) and only one SEC win against the Mighty Missouri Tigers. Yikes.

C'mon, the Hogs are 3-4 against friggin' Kentucky in FOOTBALL since joining the SEC. Losing record against Kentucky, in football!

Under Coach Chad Morris, the Hogs will remain what they have been for more than a quarter century. They will be somewhere between really awful and solidly second rate.

If we're really really really lucky. Chad Morris might even get the Hogs to winning 54% of their SEC games, 5 or 6 years from right now.

But I'm not a "real fan" because I really do think the Hogs win 2, maybe 3 SEC games next year, and probably drop one against Colorado State on the road.

woo, pigs, etc.

bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 10:05:34 pm »

How are martinis like womenís breasts?

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Jimbob111

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 11:53:43 pm »

How are martinis like womenís breasts?

Small and firm is better than big and baggy?
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War Boar

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2018, 12:53:51 am »

How are martinis like womenís breasts?

One is far too few and three is one too many.

Al Boarland

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2018, 04:32:18 am »

Ouch. It's optimism season, OP. No need for this right now.

nwahogfan1

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2018, 07:58:00 am »

Great read Oldboonie.  Good facts to chew on.  Our SEC record is horrible.  I hear many Hog fan predictions of 7 and more wins this year meaning at least 3 SEC wins and that is over Hog hype and setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.   Looking at the season in June we are by almost every national publications an under dog in all of our SEC games plus many have us as an underdog going into the Colorado St game.   

I am hoping like all Hog fans that Morris and staff can do something special on the Hill and build us to consistently winning at least half our SEC games meaning we must beat some teams almost every year like Missouri, Ms and Ms St.  I am ashamed of our SEC record against A@M and Missouri since they joined the league.  Horrible.  Their fans think of as an automatic win every year and would likely want to fire their coaches if we beat them.  Again Horrible.

 

Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 09:52:05 am »

Once again, it's almost summer, which means it's time for Hog football fans to wildly over-predict how "good" the Hogs will be in the SEC.

It's one of the things Hog fans do best.

Of course, folks who point out what the numbers say about Arkansas football in the SEC for the last quarter century aren't "true fans" and are guilty of having all sorts of evil foul agendas.

Here's a link to an article about the Hogs football history in the SEC that ran just before the 2017 season started.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-statistics-sec-1992-2017

Of course, the Hogs went 1-7 in SEC play last year, beating only Ole Miss. So you can factor in that dismal math to the numbers below, even though the numbers really don't change the results that much.

In SEC play, every single Arkansas coach has had a losing record, save for two. Barely.

In SEC league play, Houston Nutt went 42-38, or an awe-inspiring 52.5%

And Bobby Petrino, the most awesomest, bestest coach Arkansas could ever hope to get in a million jillion years went 17-15, or an eye-popping 53.1% in SEC play.

The two "best" coaches in Arkansas' entire SEC existence have been just a bit above 50% in SEC play. That's solidly mediocre, no matter how you slice it.

Against SEC teams, Arkansas owns an SEC winning record over exactly 4 other programs.

Ole Miss
Mississippi State
South Carolina
Vanderbilt.

That's setting the SEC world on fire, ain't it?

Arkansas has an all-time SEC losing record against every single other SEC team, which would be 9 total.

That includes both A&M (0-fer, since Aggies joined SEC) and only one SEC win against the Mighty Missouri Tigers. Yikes.

C'mon, the Hogs are 3-4 against friggin' Kentucky in FOOTBALL since joining the SEC. Losing record against Kentucky, in football!

Under Coach Chad Morris, the Hogs will remain what they have been for more than a quarter century. They will be somewhere between really awful and solidly second rate.

If we're really really really lucky. Chad Morris might even get the Hogs to winning 54% of their SEC games, 5 or 6 years from right now.

But I'm not a "real fan" because I really do think the Hogs win 2, maybe 3 SEC games next year, and probably drop one against Colorado State on the road.

woo, pigs, etc.

No youíre not a fan. Real fans donít bring out 9 month old articles and post something all negative full of hyperbole about a former coach that we can only get in millions of years then mentions him barely having a winning SEC record. We know what the numbers are so posting them here and showing them doesnít do anyone any good.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 09:56:18 am »

Great read Oldboonie.  Good facts to chew on.  Our SEC record is horrible.  I hear many Hog fan predictions of 7 and more wins this year meaning at least 3 SEC wins and that is over Hog hype and setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.   Looking at the season in June we are by almost every national publications an under dog in all of our SEC games plus many have us as an underdog going into the Colorado St game.   

I am hoping like all Hog fans that Morris and staff can do something special on the Hill and build us to consistently winning at least half our SEC games meaning we must beat some teams almost every year like Missouri, Ms and Ms St.  I am ashamed of our SEC record against A@M and Missouri since they joined the league.  Horrible.  Their fans think of as an automatic win every year and would likely want to fire their coaches if we beat them.  Again Horrible.

 


There isnít a fan base out there that thinks of us as an automatic win. They might think of us as a probable win depending on the year but thatís not even close to the same as automatic.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 10:16:43 am by Inhogswetrust »
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 09:57:47 am »

How are martinis like womenís breasts?

Because he doesnít get to see or touch them unless drunkenness is involved.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 10:27:55 am »

Ouch. It's optimism season, OP. No need for this right now.

I can HOPE they go 15-0, but I can, at the same time, realize that is highly unlikely.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 10:29:07 am »

There isnít a fan base out there that thinks of us as an automatic win. They might think of us as a probable win depending on the year but thatís not even close to the same as automatic.

The funny thing there is that there are teams which Hog fans think of as automatic wins though. 
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jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 10:47:05 am »

The funny thing there is that there are teams which Hog fans think of as automatic wins though. 
Like Mizzou LOL. High comedy how people  constantly count that as automatic W.

To the OP, none of that is surprising. If we have a year where we go 4-4 in conference that's not a bad year at all. I think Petrinos last year we went 6-2 and that is absolutely phenomenal if a coach can accomplish that here. That's the ceiling we are shooting for.
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zeke_in_kc

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 10:54:10 am »

I believe OP is too optimistic: we're going to play Conference USA ball in the SEC and get drilled.  For 4-6 years until we're looking for another coach...

HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 11:05:55 am »

Even in the 4 or 5 "good" seasons the Hogs have had in the last 25, they've ruined them at the end by losing the SECCG in embarrassing fashion and top that off by going on to lose the bowl game too.

And in some years, like Nutt's first and last, they turn an incredible start into a miserable end: 8-0 becomes 9-3, and 10-1 becomes 10-4. Classic Arkansas football. Even Petrino lost to Ohio St in the Sugar which if Arkansas had won that, would have had a 12-1 season and probably a #3 season ending rank instead of 11-2 and #5.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 11:06:13 am »

Like Mizzou LOL. High comedy how people  constantly count that as automatic W.

To the OP, none of that is surprising. If we have a year where we go 4-4 in conference that's not a bad year at all. I think Petrinos last year we went 6-2 and that is absolutely phenomenal if a coach can accomplish that here. That's the ceiling we are shooting for.

6-2 last two years, after two years of building his own team. 

Arkansas was 59-53 in the SEC from 1998 to 2011.  The last six years skew the numbers.  They don't mean Arkansas has suddenly become a bad football program.  It is the worst stretch in 65 years.  Over time we compete well with every member of the SEC West except Alabama.  No one else does, either. 
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Hog Fan...DOH!

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2018, 11:06:43 am »

Dear OP: 

I'm sure you're a fan.  I'm also sure that context is a concept that escapes you. 

How has Tennessee faired post-Fulmer?  When did Arkansas primarily play UT?  Was South Carolina good without Spurrier?  Florida without Spurrier or Meyer?  Bama without Saban?  How about the rest of the SEC vs. Saban?  What was Arkansas' record against Auburn and LSU with Nutt and Petrino?  Do you think "fit" is important for a coach?  Do you think Crowe, Ford, and Bielema did a good job?  Do you think because we sucked in '92 and '97 and '05, that we necessarily should suck this year or next year?

My point is, stop painting with a broad brush.  What happened 10 years ago doesn't have anything to do with what might happen in the next 10. 





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HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2018, 11:09:25 am »

6-2 last two years, after two years of building his own team. 

Arkansas was 59-53 in the SEC from 1998 to 2011.  The last six years skew the numbers.  They don't mean Arkansas has suddenly become a bad football program.  It is the worst stretch in 65 years.  Over time we compete well with every member of the SEC West except Alabama.  No one else does, either.
12 out of the 25 seasons skew the numbers.  :D ;D
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 11:10:46 am »

The funny thing there is that there are teams which Hog fans think of as automatic wins though. 

Not rational fans with any decent IQ.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2018, 11:12:05 am »

I believe OP is too optimistic: we're going to play Conference USA ball in the SEC and get drilled.  For 4-6 years until we're looking for another coach...

I bet you never get invited to parties.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2018, 11:12:43 am »

Even in the 4 or 5 "good" seasons the Hogs have had in the last 25, they've ruined them at the end by losing the SECCG in embarrassing fashion and top that off by going on to lose the bowl game too.

And in some years, like Nutt's first and last, they turn an incredible start into a miserable end: 8-0 becomes 9-3, and 10-1 becomes 10-4. Classic Arkansas football. Even Petrino lost to Ohio St in the Sugar which if Arkansas had won that, would have had a 12-1 season and probably a #3 season ending rank instead of 11-2 and #5.

It's been 40 years since Arkansas ended a season with the kind of finish we would all like to see.  But the football team itself has generally been one to be proud of. 
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 11:22:30 am »

12 out of the 25 seasons skew the numbers.  :D ;D

Arkansas is 20 games under .500 in the SEC. 16 of those are the result of the last 6 years.
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HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 11:23:21 am »

It's been 40 years since Arkansas ended a season with the kind of finish we would all like to see.  But the football team itself has generally been one to be proud of.
I felt that way during my childhood, teen and college years and a bit beyond that...thru the Hatfield years.

Since then, which is now going on almost 30 years, I have not felt proud of the Arkansas football team:

--The weird Crowe/Ford years were unsettling, to put it nicely. The W-L record those 7 seasons backs up that characterization.

--The Nutt decade was so up and down it too was unsettling. And the drama of those years was beyond crazy. Overall, the Nutt decade was disappointing given the players the program had pass through it: Matt Jones, McFadden, Felix Jones, Hillis, Lucas and other receivers, and some pretty good defensive players.

--The brief Petrino years were a respite and a great time. But 4 years out of 30 doesn't change the overall feel of the 30 year period. And unfortunately, the brief period too ended with a crazy, dramatic and "only at Arkansas and in the movies" kind of ending.

--Smith and Bielema era. I do not have to say anything about these 6 years. Everyone knows it has been the worst 6 year stretch in the 100+ year history of Arkansas Razorback football.

So, unfortunately for me, I cannot say I am proud of this program over the past 3 decades which is over half of my life and almost all of my adult life. It's been one weird, crazy, dramatic, and/or goofy event after another for 30 years. From the firing of Crowe after the 2nd game of a season, to Nutt, to Petrino and mis motorcycle, to hot piss year, and to the worst 5 years and worst head coach in the history of the program, it's been basically a pile of hot, smoking, ripe, cow patties for 30 years and that was mostly due to incompetence at the top: the ADs, the coaches, the BOT and the chancellors.

jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 12:06:22 pm »

6-2 last two years, after two years of building his own team. 

Arkansas was 59-53 in the SEC from 1998 to 2011.  The last six years skew the numbers.  They don't mean Arkansas has suddenly become a bad football program.  It is the worst stretch in 65 years.  Over time we compete well with every member of the SEC West except Alabama.  No one else does, either. 
I think it's harder to dig out of this current perception vs maintaining a blue chip perception. Think of most of these kids today being recruited. All they know about Arkansas, if anything at all...is the last 6 years. 2010 is ancient times to a 17 or 18 yr old kid.

My vote is if we are going to stay in the SEC to start doing things the Auburn/Ole Miss way. Get big time blue chip skill players and start winning big games in a hurry. Maybe beat Alabama sometime this decade.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 12:10:43 pm »


 Get big time blue chip skill players and start winning big games in a hurry.


And just how do you propose to do that? I've been asking that question on this board for 15 years, and other than the flippant " cheat " or the " gotta get a coach in here that can recruit " no one has any answer.
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Wildhog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 12:12:53 pm »

And just how do you propose to do that? I've been asking that question on this board for 15 years, and other than the flippant " cheat " or the " gotta get a coach in here that can recruit " no one has any answer.

Can't do it (consistently) unless they're in state.  We have to out-scheme opponents and use the success to marginally improve our recruiting. 
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BearsBisonsBoars

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 12:31:09 pm »

I believe OP is too optimistic: we're going to play Conference USA ball in the SEC and get drilled.  For 4-6 years until we're looking for another coach...

Iirc, you were one of the "can't out bama, bama" types.

So what style of play, exactly, would finally make you happy?
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jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 12:44:52 pm »

And just how do you propose to do that? I've been asking that question on this board for 15 years, and other than the flippant " cheat " or the " gotta get a coach in here that can recruit " no one has any answer.
How much more clear does the ole Miss/Auburn way have to be? Yes, cheat. But to me it's not really cheating if everyone else is ready doing it. Simply leveling the playing field of recruiting....some. Doesn't even take into account the geographical problems.

The NCAA obviously doesn't really care that much about it.

HogPharmer

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 12:48:14 pm »

How much more clear does the ole Miss/Auburn way have to be? Yes, cheat. But to me it's not really cheating if everyone else is ready doing it. Simply leveling the playing field of recruiting....some. Doesn't even take into account the geographical problems.

The NCAA obviously doesn't really care that much about it.

Is that like, "it's not really speeding if everyone else is doing it?" Tell that to the cop when you get pulled over.
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Wildhog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 12:50:15 pm »

Is that like, "it's not really speeding if everyone else is doing it?" Tell that to the cop when you get pulled over.

He's right, though.  We haven't been playing on a level playing field.
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HogPharmer

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 12:58:00 pm »

He's right, though.  We haven't been playing on a level playing field.

I don't disagree with that.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 01:28:47 pm »

How much more clear does the ole Miss/Auburn way have to be? Yes, cheat. But to me it's not really cheating if everyone else is ready doing it. Simply leveling the playing field of recruiting....some. Doesn't even take into account the geographical problems.

The NCAA obviously doesn't really care that much about it.

Well, what has old misses really done? Even their best teams did not beat the Hogs ( hogs have won at least 3 in a row over the rebelblackbears. They did not win a sec title. So what exactly do you mean by the old misses way? Auburn? Yea, they have had more success than old misses, but they are a roller coaster. Win it all in 2010, then nothing for 2 or 3 years, then go to the ncaa title games, then many more examples of underachieving than anything else.

 
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jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 01:34:22 pm »

Well, what has old misses really done? Even their best teams did not beat the Hogs ( hogs have won at least 3 in a row over the rebelblackbears. They did not win a sec title. So what exactly do you mean by the old misses way? Auburn? Yea, they have had more success than old misses, but they are a roller coaster. Win it all in 2010, then nothing for 2 or 3 years, then go to the ncaa title games, then many more examples of underachieving than anything else.

 

They beat Alabama twice. Who else has done that in the past decade?
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Wildhog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 01:45:15 pm »

Well, what has old misses really done? Even their best teams did not beat the Hogs ( hogs have won at least 3 in a row over the rebelblackbears. They did not win a sec title. So what exactly do you mean by the old misses way? Auburn? Yea, they have had more success than old misses, but they are a roller coaster. Win it all in 2010, then nothing for 2 or 3 years, then go to the ncaa title games, then many more examples of underachieving than anything else.

 


They won a Sugar Bowl.

We've had this debate several times before.  Skip to the end and we just don't agree on what constitutes success in the SEC.
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jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 01:59:49 pm »

Well, what has old misses really done? Even their best teams did not beat the Hogs ( hogs have won at least 3 in a row over the rebelblackbears. They did not win a sec title. So what exactly do you mean by the old misses way? Auburn? Yea, they have had more success than old misses, but they are a roller coaster. Win it all in 2010, then nothing for 2 or 3 years, then go to the ncaa title games, then many more examples of underachieving than anything else.

 

And on another note, when Auburn "underachieves" it's an 8 win season lol. I mean seriously...that must just be awful. /S
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HoginMemphis

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 02:21:20 pm »

Can't do it (consistently) unless they're in state.  We have to out-scheme opponents and use the success to marginally improve our recruiting.
Improve this state's high school football programs? Can that be done from the U of A football program in some way?
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Wildhog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 02:28:42 pm »

Improve this state's high school football programs? Can that be done from the U of A football program in some way?

Only way I know to do it is school consolidation on a massive scale.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 02:30:20 pm »

I felt that way during my childhood, teen and college years and a bit beyond that...thru the Hatfield years.

Since then, which is now going on almost 30 years, I have not felt proud of the Arkansas football team:

--The weird Crowe/Ford years were unsettling, to put it nicely. The W-L record those 7 seasons backs up that characterization.

--The Nutt decade was so up and down it too was unsettling. And the drama of those years was beyond crazy. Overall, the Nutt decade was disappointing given the players the program had pass through it: Matt Jones, McFadden, Felix Jones, Hillis, Lucas and other receivers, and some pretty good defensive players.

--The brief Petrino years were a respite and a great time. But 4 years out of 30 doesn't change the overall feel of the 30 year period. And unfortunately, the brief period too ended with a crazy, dramatic and "only at Arkansas and in the movies" kind of ending.

--Smith and Bielema era. I do not have to say anything about these 6 years. Everyone knows it has been the worst 6 year stretch in the 100+ year history of Arkansas Razorback football.

So, unfortunately for me, I cannot say I am proud of this program over the past 3 decades which is over half of my life and almost all of my adult life. It's been one weird, crazy, dramatic, and/or goofy event after another for 30 years. From the firing of Crowe after the 2nd game of a season, to Nutt, to Petrino and mis motorcycle, to hot piss year, and to the worst 5 years and worst head coach in the history of the program, it's been basically a pile of hot, smoking, ripe, cow patties for 30 years and that was mostly due to incompetence at the top: the ADs, the coaches, the BOT and the chancellors.

Maybe Iím just proud to be from Arkansas in general and the Razorbacks are part of that, and it extends to basketball, baseball, etc. Arkansas is fairly well represented in Nashville, and most people I know here have a healthy respect for the state and the Razorbacks. Tennessee has been down longer than the Hogs - with highly rated recruiting classes. Most equate that more to the post-Fulmer string of head coaches than the program itself.

With the exception of Bobby Petrino, Arkansas hasnít had a head coach the equal of Broyles, Holtz and Hatfield since joining the SEC. I agree we donít seem to be able to get out of our own way where football is concerned, but Iím hopeful those days are over.
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lakecityhog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2018, 09:59:42 pm »

Alabama   576   381   166   20   .661
Arkansas   184   82   100   2   .446
Auburn   555   302   235   18   .544
Florida   535   306   214   15   .572
Georgia   527   310   203   14   .588
Kentucky   501   158   331   12   .315
LSU   544   308   214   22   .566
Mississippi State   544   181   350   13   .332
Missouri   24   16   8   0   .667
Ole Miss   538   251   262   25   .467
South Carolina   184   81   102   1   .440
Tennessee   536   325   192   19   .606
Texas A&M   24   13   11   0   .542
Vanderbilt   549   133   397   19   .242

Some of these guys have some pretty impressive conference records, but keep in mind that back in the day the league was home to some "less than powerhouse" teams like Sewanee, Cumberland and Tulane. Other members at various times included Washington & Lee, VMI, Mercer and Nashville.

As you can see Vanderbilt, Mississippi State and Kentucky have never been really competitive and Ole Miss is clearly all-time right in our range.

What's the old saying? there are lies, darned lies and statistics??? The big 5 have always been the big 5 and it is up to us to take one of those spots. Regardless of your beliefs, likes, dislikes or angst both Petrino and to a lesser degree Nutt proved that we can compete in the SEC.

If we get to the point where competing is a normal thing then the time will come when we catch the right breaks and win it. And trust me it DOES take getting a few breaks. Auburn did it with a returned FG attempt and an incredible catch on a near interception. Alabama did it once because we traveled to Ole Miss and beat them in overtime. LSU did it after losing a heartbreaker to us in multiple OT's because other teams lost the same day.

Being good often isn't quite enough, being good AND getting a couple of breaks is the key.
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MissippHog

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 01:38:53 am »

Is that like, "it's not really speeding if everyone else is doing it?" Tell that to the cop when you get pulled over.
Yes, it is.  Pay a small fine, get a blemish on your record.  Now, you may have to slow down for a bit but before long you'll be back to what you were doing.  And it's only speeding if you get caught.
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Pudgepork

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 10:40:12 am »

We Hog fans have never denied that our next National Championship is a work in progress.  I see room for improvement.  I choose to believe that this coaching staff will make us happy.  Well, except for those people who thrive on the negatives
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Nashville Fan

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2018, 10:52:16 am »

AR is irrelevant in any sport because of bad coaching hires. Nothing else. Not conference. Not facilities. Not recruits. Blame the AD.

Haven't you learned anything from Saban? Even aTm gets it. I wouldn't have picked who aTm picked but I am a fan not an AD.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2018, 11:00:22 am »

Can't do it (consistently) unless they're in state.  We have to out-scheme opponents and use the success to marginally improve our recruiting.

I have no doubts CM will play the game in TX. Let's just hope it doesnt come back to bite us.
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Nashville Fan

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2018, 08:05:39 am »

The funny thing there is that there are teams which Hog fans think of as automatic wins though. 
Smart people for all SEC teams realize that there are no automatic wins in the SEC. That is why SEC teams always get to the NC playoffs - every forth year the SEC will get two.
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mizzouman

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2018, 09:52:26 am »

Only way I know to do it is school consolidation on a massive scale.
I agree with this.  The STL school districts, and even in the county, have a rule that if a school is over 2500 kids, they must build a new one.  That's why you see a lot of North, South, East and West schools but with the same name, i.e., Parkway North, Parkway South, etc.  You can throw some Centrals in there as well. 

Every time this happens, the football teams get less competitive which over time, lessens competition on the field. 
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Razorback_Mack

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2018, 10:07:58 am »

Once again, it's almost summer, which means it's time for Hog football fans to wildly over-predict how "good" the Hogs will be in the SEC.

It's one of the things Hog fans do best.

Of course, folks who point out what the numbers say about Arkansas football in the SEC for the last quarter century aren't "true fans" and are guilty of having all sorts of evil foul agendas.

Here's a link to an article about the Hogs football history in the SEC that ran just before the 2017 season started.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-statistics-sec-1992-2017

Of course, the Hogs went 1-7 in SEC play last year, beating only Ole Miss. So you can factor in that dismal math to the numbers below, even though the numbers really don't change the results that much.

In SEC play, every single Arkansas coach has had a losing record, save for two. Barely.

In SEC league play, Houston Nutt went 42-38, or an awe-inspiring 52.5%

And Bobby Petrino, the most awesomest, bestest coach Arkansas could ever hope to get in a million jillion years went 17-15, or an eye-popping 53.1% in SEC play.

The two "best" coaches in Arkansas' entire SEC existence have been just a bit above 50% in SEC play. That's solidly mediocre, no matter how you slice it.

Against SEC teams, Arkansas owns an SEC winning record over exactly 4 other programs.

Ole Miss
Mississippi State
South Carolina
Vanderbilt.

That's setting the SEC world on fire, ain't it?

Arkansas has an all-time SEC losing record against every single other SEC team, which would be 9 total.

That includes both A&M (0-fer, since Aggies joined SEC) and only one SEC win against the Mighty Missouri Tigers. Yikes.

C'mon, the Hogs are 3-4 against friggin' Kentucky in FOOTBALL since joining the SEC. Losing record against Kentucky, in football!

Under Coach Chad Morris, the Hogs will remain what they have been for more than a quarter century. They will be somewhere between really awful and solidly second rate.

If we're really really really lucky. Chad Morris might even get the Hogs to winning 54% of their SEC games, 5 or 6 years from right now.

But I'm not a "real fan" because I really do think the Hogs win 2, maybe 3 SEC games next year, and probably drop one against Colorado State on the road.

woo, pigs, etc.
Anybody that remotely follows Arkansas football knows everything that you posted. Youíre not bringing anything informative and donít have any new ideas. All you do is post the same stuff. If your goal is for people to be overly negative like you then please go kick boulders.

hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2018, 12:02:25 pm »

I agree with this.  The STL school districts, and even in the county, have a rule that if a school is over 2500 kids, they must build a new one.  That's why you see a lot of North, South, East and West schools but with the same name, i.e., Parkway North, Parkway South, etc.  You can throw some Centrals in there as well. 

Every time this happens, the football teams get less competitive which over time, lessens competition on the field. 

Which is why you have seen the fight to not build new HS's in places like Bentonville, Springdale, Rogers and Fay. When Rogers and Springdale built new ones, the existing ones saw their football teams tank. Jury is still out on Bentonville, but even they have not been quite as good since BWHS opened. Fay fights to stay one school due in large part to athletics.

Fort Smith floated the idea of a new hs a couple years ago, and the loudest howl was about what it would do to football at both NS and ss.

And, on the flip side, just suggest to some micro district that they would lose their 13 player football team if they consolidated and watch the wailing and nashing of teeth.
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oldbooniehog

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2018, 07:37:14 pm »

I am responding to several posters above in this thread.

A few folks have written responses that pretty much say the following:

"Well, DUH, Oldbooniehog. Everybody KNOWS Arkansas is a second-rate SEC football program during the absolute best of times."


My response is "BULL-----CRAP!"

Hordes of Arkansas fans absolutely and completely and totally reject the "TRUTH" about Arkansas football in the SEC.

For proof, I point to the endless "FIRE COACH X" talk that is the second-best thing Hog fans do besides wildly over-predict what "next year" will be like, even though "next year" has never shown up once, not since 1964.

It usually starts with "Fire position Coach X!" when the Hogs once again fall short in the SEC,

After a few more years, it's "Fire Coordinator X!" when the Hogs keep on being the Hogs that "everybody" knows they are in the SEC.

About 4 or 5 years into the process, it becomes "Fire Head Coach X!"

It really doesn't matter who coaches the Hogs.

Just like it really doesn't matter who coaches Ole Miss or Mississippi State or Iowa State or Purdue or Washington State or North Carolina State or Texas Tech, and a whole lot of other second-tier NCAA football programs that will remain second-tier for all eternity.

Arkansas is what it is, and shall remain so.

But lots and lots of Hog fans refuse to acknowledge the truth that's been proven over and over and over since about 1992.

And their refusal to acknowledge that truth causes them to get unnecessarily angry and upset, and to scream and holler for "COACH X" to be fired, fired, fired. And to never enjoy any actual good times the program may experience, and instead always yearn for "what might have been'" but never actually happens, at least not to Arkansas.

How long has Kirk Ferentz been at Iowa? Look at the stability he has brought to the Hawkeyes.

Iowa fans REALIZE who and what the Hawkeyes are in the Big 10. And they are okay with it. And they are willing to go through the occasional losing season because they know Ferentz will also deliver a 10-win season now and again, and will sometimes beat Ohio State, and usually goes to a bowl.

Arkansas fans would have screamed for Kirk Ferentz to be fired years and years ago, because they refuse to see and accept the truth about Arkansas football in the SEC.

No matter how many times that truth is hammered into their skulls, over and over and over.

There will be screams of "FIRE COACH MORRIS" as soon as he gets blown out by Alabama.

Three years from right now, this board will be full of "FIRE COACH MORRIS Darksiders." Only their angry "darksiding" will be totally in vain, because Arkansas is who and what it is in the SEC.... Second-rate at the absolute best of times. No matter who the coach is.

Hate all you want. Truth is truth. 26 years and counting, counting, counting...

I am simply tired of the cycle. Tired of the anger. Tired of the bitterness. Tired of the campaigns to "FIRE COACH X."

Arkansas simply cannot fire its way to greatness in the SEC. Because Arkansas is not a program that achieves greatness, at least not in football, in the last 50 years or so.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2018, 07:56:39 pm »

I am responding to several posters above in this thread.

A few folks have written responses that pretty much say the following:

"Well, DUH, Oldbooniehog. Everybody KNOWS Arkansas is a second-rate SEC football program during the absolute best of times."


My response is "BULL-----CRAP!"

Hordes of Arkansas fans absolutely and completely and totally reject the "TRUTH" about Arkansas football in the SEC.

For proof, I point to the endless "FIRE COACH X" talk that is the second-best thing Hog fans do besides wildly over-predict what "next year" will be like, even though "next year" has never shown up once, not since 1964.

It usually starts with "Fire position Coach X!" when the Hogs once again fall short in the SEC,

After a few more years, it's "Fire Coordinator X!" when the Hogs keep on being the Hogs that "everybody" knows they are in the SEC.

About 4 or 5 years into the process, it becomes "Fire Head Coach X!"

It really doesn't matter who coaches the Hogs.

Just like it really doesn't matter who coaches Ole Miss or Mississippi State or Iowa State or Purdue or Washington State or North Carolina State or Texas Tech, and a whole lot of other second-tier NCAA football programs that will remain second-tier for all eternity.

Arkansas is what it is, and shall remain so.

But lots and lots of Hog fans refuse to acknowledge the truth that's been proven over and over and over since about 1992.

And their refusal to acknowledge that truth causes them to get unnecessarily angry and upset, and to scream and holler for "COACH X" to be fired, fired, fired. And to never enjoy any actual good times the program may experience, and instead always yearn for "what might have been'" but never actually happens, at least not to Arkansas.

How long has Kirk Ferentz been at Iowa? Look at the stability he has brought to the Hawkeyes.

Iowa fans REALIZE who and what the Hawkeyes are in the Big 10. And they are okay with it. And they are willing to go through the occasional losing season because they know Ferentz will also deliver a 10-win season now and again, and will sometimes beat Ohio State, and usually goes to a bowl.

Arkansas fans would have screamed for Kirk Ferentz to be fired years and years ago, because they refuse to see and accept the truth about Arkansas football in the SEC.

No matter how many times that truth is hammered into their skulls, over and over and over.

There will be screams of "FIRE COACH MORRIS" as soon as he gets blown out by Alabama.

Three years from right now, this board will be full of "FIRE COACH MORRIS Darksiders." Only their angry "darksiding" will be totally in vain, because Arkansas is who and what it is in the SEC.... Second-rate at the absolute best of times. No matter who the coach is.

Hate all you want. Truth is truth. 26 years and counting, counting, counting...

I am simply tired of the cycle. Tired of the anger. Tired of the bitterness. Tired of the campaigns to "FIRE COACH X."

Arkansas simply cannot fire its way to greatness in the SEC. Because Arkansas is not a program that achieves greatness, at least not in football, in the last 50 years or so.

You need the fans you are describing. Apathy does not sell out stadiums. Passion does. New coaches bring hope. It doesn't matter if the results are the same. Just the slightest taste can give people a ledge to hold on to for generations. They can convince themselves that under a specific set of conditions their team will be great and, by extension, they will be great.
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AP85

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Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2018, 08:05:41 pm »

Once again, it's almost summer, which means it's time for Hog football fans to wildly over-predict how "good" the Hogs will be in the SEC.

It's one of the things Hog fans do best.

Of course, folks who point out what the numbers say about Arkansas football in the SEC for the last quarter century aren't "true fans" and are guilty of having all sorts of evil foul agendas.

Here's a link to an article about the Hogs football history in the SEC that ran just before the 2017 season started.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-razorbacks-statistics-sec-1992-2017

Of course, the Hogs went 1-7 in SEC play last year, beating only Ole Miss. So you can factor in that dismal math to the numbers below, even though the numbers really don't change the results that much.

In SEC play, every single Arkansas coach has had a losing record, save for two. Barely.

In SEC league play, Houston Nutt went 42-38, or an awe-inspiring 52.5%

And Bobby Petrino, the most awesomest, bestest coach Arkansas could ever hope to get in a million jillion years went 17-15, or an eye-popping 53.1% in SEC play.

The two "best" coaches in Arkansas' entire SEC existence have been just a bit above 50% in SEC play. That's solidly mediocre, no matter how you slice it.

Against SEC teams, Arkansas owns an SEC winning record over exactly 4 other programs.

Ole Miss
Mississippi State
South Carolina
Vanderbilt.

That's setting the SEC world on fire, ain't it?

Arkansas has an all-time SEC losing record against every single other SEC team, which would be 9 total.

That includes both A&M (0-fer, since Aggies joined SEC) and only one SEC win against the Mighty Missouri Tigers. Yikes.

C'mon, the Hogs are 3-4 against friggin' Kentucky in FOOTBALL since joining the SEC. Losing record against Kentucky, in football!

Under Coach Chad Morris, the Hogs will remain what they have been for more than a quarter century. They will be somewhere between really awful and solidly second rate.

If we're really really really lucky. Chad Morris might even get the Hogs to winning 54% of their SEC games, 5 or 6 years from right now.

But I'm not a "real fan" because I really do think the Hogs win 2, maybe 3 SEC games next year, and probably drop one against Colorado State on the road.

woo, pigs, etc.

Spot on.
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jkstock04

Re: Arkansas football in the SEC, the numbers.
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2018, 09:54:43 pm »

I am responding to several posters above in this thread.

A few folks have written responses that pretty much say the following:

"Well, DUH, Oldbooniehog. Everybody KNOWS Arkansas is a second-rate SEC football program during the absolute best of times."


My response is "BULL-----CRAP!"

Hordes of Arkansas fans absolutely and completely and totally reject the "TRUTH" about Arkansas football in the SEC.

For proof, I point to the endless "FIRE COACH X" talk that is the second-best thing Hog fans do besides wildly over-predict what "next year" will be like, even though "next year" has never shown up once, not since 1964.

It usually starts with "Fire position Coach X!" when the Hogs once again fall short in the SEC,

After a few more years, it's "Fire Coordinator X!" when the Hogs keep on being the Hogs that "everybody" knows they are in the SEC.

About 4 or 5 years into the process, it becomes "Fire Head Coach X!"

It really doesn't matter who coaches the Hogs.

Just like it really doesn't matter who coaches Ole Miss or Mississippi State or Iowa State or Purdue or Washington State or North Carolina State or Texas Tech, and a whole lot of other second-tier NCAA football programs that will remain second-tier for all eternity.

Arkansas is what it is, and shall remain so.

But lots and lots of Hog fans refuse to acknowledge the truth that's been proven over and over and over since about 1992.

And their refusal to acknowledge that truth causes them to get unnecessarily angry and upset, and to scream and holler for "COACH X" to be fired, fired, fired. And to never enjoy any actual good times the program may experience, and instead always yearn for "what might have been'" but never actually happens, at least not to Arkansas.

How long has Kirk Ferentz been at Iowa? Look at the stability he has brought to the Hawkeyes.

Iowa fans REALIZE who and what the Hawkeyes are in the Big 10. And they are okay with it. And they are willing to go through the occasional losing season because they know Ferentz will also deliver a 10-win season now and again, and will sometimes beat Ohio State, and usually goes to a bowl.

Arkansas fans would have screamed for Kirk Ferentz to be fired years and years ago, because they refuse to see and accept the truth about Arkansas football in the SEC.

No matter how many times that truth is hammered into their skulls, over and over and over.

There will be screams of "FIRE COACH MORRIS" as soon as he gets blown out by Alabama.

Three years from right now, this board will be full of "FIRE COACH MORRIS Darksiders." Only their angry "darksiding" will be totally in vain, because Arkansas is who and what it is in the SEC.... Second-rate at the absolute best of times. No matter who the coach is.

Hate all you want. Truth is truth. 26 years and counting, counting, counting...

I am simply tired of the cycle. Tired of the anger. Tired of the bitterness. Tired of the campaigns to "FIRE COACH X."

Arkansas simply cannot fire its way to greatness in the SEC. Because Arkansas is not a program that achieves greatness, at least not in football, in the last 50 years or so.
My crazy idea is next time we find a coach who can win 10 plus games here, don't fire him or run him off.

Not sure if you are alluding to firing Bielema being a bad choice. Sounds like maybe you are. In the first 5 years did the Iowa coach perform better than Bielema at Arkansas? Without Iooking i would wager he did. Bielema years here were misery beyond imagination. Worst in modern history if not all time school history. My opinion, zero chance we were ever going to win 10 games under Bielema.

There has to be expectations and benchmarks set in my opinion. Black and White results without the fluff stories to superficially prop terrible coaches up by the media and homer fans. If these are not met, fire him and move on to next guy. I said in another thread in a hypothetical situation....if we were to fail to make a bowl game in the first 3 consecutive years of the Morris era he will be fired. I'll stick to that. The 5 year rebuild/doing it the right way/would be proud for my son to play under him/teaching kids to be men after college so winning 5 games in a season is okay stuff won't fly this go round I'm going to wager.
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