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Author Topic: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?  (Read 4753 times)

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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2018, 10:18:39 pm »

It's better than being in the SEC without the money. One would assume the OP is saying have should be stayed in the SWC, which of course, no longer exists.

Correct.

So, had we stayed in the SWC, we would now be in the Big12, be a pillar of a Power 5 conference, and have true, historically driven and natural rivals. We would also be nationally relevant and fighting teams that are regionally closer for a playoff spot every year. Being nationally competitive would likely lead to getting better players, thus sustaining and compelling the program.

Instead, we get whipped by Bama by 30 every year and have become a bottom dweller in the SEC.

But yeah, look at our big new stadium

Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2018, 07:22:45 am »

How many times does the question need to be answered? 

If an algorithm can recognize faces, canít one be developed that sends redundant OPís directly to Trash?

Well if we did that a lot of what the power posters such as yourself post would go to trash also because after the first page itís ALL redundant.  I donít care, itís not like there is too much content in Hogville.  Also your opinion wouldnít be needed because iím Sure someone has already said what your about to repeat.
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2018, 07:26:00 am »

Correct.

So, had we stayed in the SWC, we would now be in the Big12, be a pillar of a Power 5 conference, and have true, historically driven and natural rivals. We would also be nationally relevant and fighting teams that are regionally closer for a playoff spot every year. Being nationally competitive would likely lead to getting better players, thus sustaining and compelling the program.

Instead, we get whipped by Bama by 30 every year and have become a bottom dweller in the SEC.

But yeah, look at our big new stadium


Maybe, maybe not. There's no way of knowing what would have happened if we stayed, or what conference, there's only conjecture of "what could have been".

bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2018, 07:58:43 am »

Well if we did that a lot of what the power posters such as yourself post would go to trash also because after the first page itís ALL redundant.  I donít care, itís not like there is too much content in Hogville.  Also your opinion wouldnít be needed because iím Sure someone has already said what your about to repeat.

Power poster?  Thatís pretty funny. Iím just like everyone else here.

If I were to guess, about 80% of posters this offseason predict disaster in 2018. I donít and explain the reasons why I think this team will be a pleasant surprise.

Sweet Feet and a few others are trolls. This is one of the more obvious troll OPs.  There are plenty of others. What is Arkansasís brand?  That depends upon your age, where you live, how you define ďbrandĒ, etc. Overall, most of the people in Nashville, Tennessee where I live, especially high school aged kids and their parents, view Arkansas as an SEC school with strong academics and athletics. The Razorbacks brand itself is unique and strong nationwide. Itís weak only to those trying to beat the rush here and predict doom early.

hoglady

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2018, 08:00:42 am »

I'm old.
I miss the SWC and always have.
I miss being relevant.

I understand the move to the SEC and was excited about it when decision was made.
I can't imagine that Broyles envisioned the football program being mired in mediocrity for decades when the move was made, though.

bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2018, 08:16:00 am »

I'm old.
I miss the SWC and always have.
I miss being relevant.

I understand the move to the SEC and was excited about it when decision was made.
I can't imagine that Broyles envisioned the football program being mired in mediocrity for decades when the move was made, though.

Broyles made a big mistake when he hired Jack Crowe. The decision was understandable under the circumstances. Crowe was the OC for a potent offense with a returning senior QB. As Bobby Petrino proved, Arkansas has been a program in search of a great coach since. Chad Morris could very well be that coach. He will still have to play one of the toughest schedules in the country every year, and Alabama will always be there.

The NCAA recently published recognized national championships. Yale has the most.  Notre Dame has 14. Alabama has 13, and only five belong to Saban. No other SEC team has as many as three. The SEC has always been Alabama and everyone else. Arkansasís history, even since it joined the SEC, places it in the middle of the pack. The facilities are there and about to be better. If we judge the Razorbacks by Crimson Tide standards, we are in for disappointment. But we will have very good football teams again with the right coach. The last six years have been a low point since 1948-53. Thatís not who we are.
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Knot2brite

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2018, 09:32:15 am »

Being in the SEC has given the fans the best built in excuse for not winning...we are in the best football ( and baseball) conference in the NCAA and if we lose it is because the league is so damn tough. We get a buttload of money to build great facilities and we can say hahahaha to the other teams not in the sec about those facilities. Geographically, we are decent fits to the sec but realistically we are just in it for the money. We have A huge amount of fans that have Stockholm syndrome and will scream SEC SEC while Bama and Florida and Auburn and Georgia  win in football and Kentucky wins in basketball because that way they can feel warm and fuzzy about being a part of a conference that is winning....basically we are hangers-on and hoping and praying that at some point in the next millennium we have a team that will get there ....
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cityhog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2018, 09:51:53 am »

Making the correct hiring choices has nothing to do with SEC money....and everything to do with leadership (or lack-thereof )

I can't wait for our new AD to make his first hire and then when it goes south how people will howl about lack of leadership yet again. I have a feeling we are about to enter into an era of Arkansas athletics where ADs become as disposable as head coaches.
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2018, 09:53:24 am »

The move to the SEC was NOT about winning football games, or improving the football program. The move to the SEC was about funding the ATHLETIC PROGRAM, getting out of a dying SWC was a bonus. It has been a smashing success based on what it actually was meant to do. The entire athletic department has benefited greatly from the move. The move also raised the overall program profile which allowed for facility improvements.
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2018, 10:15:39 am »

I can't wait for our new AD to make his first hire and then when it goes south how people will howl about lack of leadership yet again. I have a feeling we are about to enter into an era of Arkansas athletics where ADs become as disposable as head coaches.

Well, he just hired a new Women's tennis coach, I guess we have awhile to watch on this one. He hired her from Houston, he might have hired her there.
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2018, 10:19:28 am »

I can't wait for our new AD to make his first hire and then when it goes south how people will howl about lack of leadership yet again. I have a feeling we are about to enter into an era of Arkansas athletics where ADs become as disposable as head coaches.

You may be right, because the fans wont ever admit what the real problem is. And of course most do not look past fuhbawl when they judge to athletic director or department.

The real problem on the football field is the recruiting issues, issue that CAN NOT BE FIXED by the coach or the AD.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2018, 10:44:05 am »

Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1."

Hogville's Law: "As a Hogville thread grows longer, the probability of beating a dead horse on multiple different topics approaches 1."

HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2018, 10:53:15 am »

Nationally competitive.  That's something Memphis cannot be.  There's a long list of other schools in the same boat.  We've PROVEN that we can be competitive in the SEC.  We've seen teams like Clemson show that getting the right coach, and some things falling into place, can thrust programs up multiple levels. 

It's fine if you don't think it's likely.  But you WILL NOT convince anyone that it's not possible, because it's been proven that it is.  It's a matter of getting the right coach, and having some things go your way.  Every year, MOST college programs don't have a prayer of winning the NC.  Fact.  Arkansas has the resources to field a program than can.  If we don't win one, then we'll be like most other programs.
Why are you comparing U of M football to Arkansas football? Who cares about U of M football?? Do you think your comment will upset me? Is that why you made it? Reminds me of 4th grade.

We've PROVEN we can be competitive in the SEC? News to me. When our quarter century win percentage is 40 in SEC games, how do you twist that into PROVEN to be competitive in the SEC? By that standard, I guess every program in the SEC but maybe Vandy has PROVEN they are competitive in the SEC. Rationalize much?

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Sweet Feet

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2018, 10:59:09 am »

I've never understood how the users who call me a "troll" are always the main ones who find themselves on my thread, commenting and engaging more on it than me ??? ???....but that's none of my business...
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carolinahogger

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2018, 12:01:09 pm »

I've never understood how the users who call me a "troll" are always the main ones who find themselves on my thread, commenting and engaging more on it than me ??? ???....but that's none of my business...

In order to be a troll on Hogville you must have a point of view which does not agree with the Pollyannaish majority.  You are then accused of "having an agenda"  by people who have an agenda.
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2018, 12:11:51 pm »

Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1."

Hogville's Law: "As a Hogville thread grows longer, the probability of beating a dead horse on multiple different topics approaches 1."

What do you think about WMS? Pepsi products? Frito Pie? CBP firing?
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2018, 12:13:16 pm »

That guy didn't have to play in the SEC!

No he plays in a bigger conference some think.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2018, 12:23:54 pm »

The move to the SEC was NOT about winning football games, or improving the football program. The move to the SEC was about funding the ATHLETIC PROGRAM, getting out of a dying SWC was a bonus. It has been a smashing success based on what it actually was meant to do. The entire athletic department has benefited greatly from the move. The move also raised the overall program profile which allowed for facility improvements.

Pretty much true. Also look at the other teams that switched to the SEC. The building up of facilities by them has happened and is still happening after they switched to the SEC. I also wonder if we hadnít switched if there would have been another move to have a general student athletic fee like a lot of schools have. We never have had it and maybe the increase in money helped keep it that way in a small part. The SWC was dying and there was never a guarantee we would be in the little 12 also. Remember there are four teams that quit the old SWC or Little 12. Others would leave if they could as easily as it was when us, Tamu and Mizzou did. The SEC is the one conference that has no penalty for leaving. THAT says all that needs to be said.
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Razorbackers

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2018, 12:38:22 pm »

Why exclude facilities?

narrative.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2018, 01:16:30 pm »

Why are you comparing U of M football to Arkansas football? Who cares about U of M football?? Do you think your comment will upset me? Is that why you made it? Reminds me of 4th grade.

We've PROVEN we can be competitive in the SEC? News to me. When our quarter century win percentage is 40 in SEC games, how do you twist that into PROVEN to be competitive in the SEC? By that standard, I guess every program in the SEC but maybe Vandy has PROVEN they are competitive in the SEC. Rationalize much?

Haha...I used Memphis so you could relate easier.  I try to keep it simple for you, since you welch on bets and constantly whine about the Razorbacks with the loudest "woe is me" attitude on the board. 

In 2010 and 2011, we PROVED that we can compete in the SEC.  Will it be consistent?  Probably not, but with a great coach, and an influx of in-state talent, it's ABSOLUTELY possible.  Proven.  You may not like that, but it's a fact.  That took him enough years to recuit and develop a team, and he showed that we belong in the SEC. 

You fail to realized that if Bama is your measuring stick, then you're not going to find many who have climbed that mountain.  Not just in the SEC...but nationally, and they have played everyone. 

Football will always be the most difficult for us, because of our small state population.  Obviously you have to crank out MANY more athletes to field a football team than one for baseball, for example.  So....that may always be our challenge, but in other sports....we rank at or near the top in many.  So...if you want to continue to equate our competitiveness to football exclusively, then feel free.  It is NOT the reason we moved to the SEC, and that is a fact.  We needed to get off a sinking ship, and it has helped our program from top to bottom immensely. 

Many think football can be turned around with the right coach.  We'll see...  In the meantime, enjoy your time in Memphis taking shots at the Razorback athletic program.  It's kinda funny...and sad, at the same time. 

hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2018, 01:24:50 pm »



 So...if you want to continue to equate our competitiveness to football exclusively, then feel free. 


Sadly, for many, success begins and ends with football. I'll bet there are many hog fans that do not even know the baseball team is hosting a super this weekend.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2018, 01:29:05 pm »

What do you think about WMS? Pepsi products? Frito Pie? CBP firing?

Let me tell u wat.

I thank if we was still in the SWC (now Big 12) we'd be playin' 4 games a year in WMS cuz Lil Rock closer to Texas (is it though?).

Then, wit all dem Texas teams involved, we'd be drankin' Snapple and Dr. Pepper cuz Snapple/Dr. Pepper is in Plano.

Meaning that Petrino wouldna been fired due tuh that partnership, cuz Jessica Dorrell is a known Dr. Pepper hater, airgo she wuldna been here in the firs tplace.

So basicly, if we was still in the SWC/Big 12, we'd be winnin natnal championships while playin at War Memrial (Petirno never lost at War Memrial), drankin Dr. P, and seein Bobby Paterno on the sideline.

And boy dotn emn git me started on crootin

GoHogs1091

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2018, 01:33:38 pm »

The money has helped us get fancy facilities.

The trophy case is empty though.

Don't worry though.  We still have the view of the south facade of RRS and we still have a view of the roof of Bud Walton Arena when we top the hill while going northbound on I-49 after just passing the Greenland exit.  Having those views when topping the hill makes the program special.

urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2018, 01:33:50 pm »

Sadly, for many, success begins and ends with football. I'll bet there are many hog fans that do not even know the baseball team is hosting a super this weekend.

Well, sadly, because of our inherent recruiting challenges with football, it's probably wise for fans to look to the other sports, if winning is all that floats their boat.  We're far more likely to be compete in Basketball and Baseball, than we are football.  Never mind track, golf. volleyball, WOMEN's softball (which was a blast to watch this season BTW, for those who missed it), and a lot of other sports not mentioned. 

It doesn't diminish the need to field a competitive football team.  People can speculate, and do all they want, but the fact remains....ALL of the recent NC winners have had perennial top 10 recruiting classes.  So...if they are hanging their hats on us doing more with less, then good luck with that.  The statistics show that as an overwhelmingly low probability UNTIL we can at least creep up near 10th in the nation. 

In effect, if the only reason to watch the football team is with the hope that we win a NC, then those fans should just look at our recruiting numbers every year, and save themselves the time and effort of watching games until they see the numbers jump tremendously.  Oh...and if they think that would change with a move to the Big 12...good luck.  We would still face the same challenges we face now. 

That's not a popular outlook for many, but it's the truth.  I watch because I hope we can field a team that competes hard, wins more than we lose, and will hopefully one day get a coach in place that can jump us up in recruiting, and have the planets align and compete for a NC. 

But...I know until recruiting numbers improve, that's a HIGH hurdle that would be based more on luck, than anything else. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2018, 01:37:26 pm »

The money has helped us get fancy facilities.

The trophy case is empty though.

Don't worry though.  We still have the view of the south facade of RRS and we still have a view of the roof of Bud Walton Arena when we top the hill while going northbound on I-49 after just passing the Greenland exit.  Having those views when topping the hill makes the program special.

What makes Clemson able to compete against Florida State and the rest of the ACC?  Other than having the Chuck Norris of defense, your boy Venables? 
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2018, 01:49:22 pm »

Let me tell u wat.

I thank if we was still in the SWC (now Big 12) we'd be playin' 4 games a year in WMS cuz Lil Rock closer to Texas (is it though?).

Then, wit all dem Texas teams involved, we'd be drankin' Snapple and Dr. Pepper cuz Snapple/Dr. Pepper is in Plano.

Meaning that Petrino wouldna been fired due tuh that partnership, cuz Jessica Dorrell is a known Dr. Pepper hater, airgo she wuldna been here in the firs tplace.

So basicly, if we was still in the SWC/Big 12, we'd be winnin natnal championships while playin at War Memrial (Petirno never lost at War Memrial), drankin Dr. P, and seein Bobby Paterno on the sideline.

And boy dotn emn git me started on crootin

You forgot about the frito pie
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2018, 01:55:34 pm »

You forgot about the frito pie

You can meet me at the Alma Sonic if you'd like to discuss it.
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2018, 02:26:07 pm »

Haha...I used Memphis so you could relate easier.  I try to keep it simple for you, since you welch on bets and constantly whine about the Razorbacks with the loudest "woe is me" attitude on the board. 

In 2010 and 2011, we PROVED that we can compete in the SEC.  Will it be consistent?  Probably not, but with a great coach, and an influx of in-state talent, it's ABSOLUTELY possible.  Proven.  You may not like that, but it's a fact.  That took him enough years to recuit and develop a team, and he showed that we belong in the SEC. 

You fail to realized that if Bama is your measuring stick, then you're not going to find many who have climbed that mountain.  Not just in the SEC...but nationally, and they have played everyone. 

Football will always be the most difficult for us, because of our small state population.  Obviously you have to crank out MANY more athletes to field a football team than one for baseball, for example.  So....that may always be our challenge, but in other sports....we rank at or near the top in many.  So...if you want to continue to equate our competitiveness to football exclusively, then feel free.  It is NOT the reason we moved to the SEC, and that is a fact.  We needed to get off a sinking ship, and it has helped our program from top to bottom immensely. 

Many think football can be turned around with the right coach.  We'll see...  In the meantime, enjoy your time in Memphis taking shots at the Razorback athletic program.  It's kinda funny...and sad, at the same time.
I never said Bama is my measuring stick. So many here like you who put words in mouths of others because it is the way YOU think. Very much a simpleton. If I used one program as a measuring stick in the SEC, it might be A&M. Too bad we cannot win a game against them.

Most here have a different concept of what competing means and is than I do. 2 fortunate years is just that...luck more than anything else.
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2018, 02:28:25 pm »

Pretty much true. Also look at the other teams that switched to the SEC. The building up of facilities by them has happened and is still happening after they switched to the SEC. I also wonder if we hadnít switched if there would have been another move to have a general student athletic fee like a lot of schools have. We never have had it and maybe the increase in money helped keep it that way in a small part. The SWC was dying and there was never a guarantee we would be in the little 12 also. Remember there are four teams that quit the old SWC or Little 12. Others would leave if they could as easily as it was when us, Tamu and Mizzou did. The SEC is the one conference that has no penalty for leaving. THAT says all that needs to be said.
TCU left the SWC but not for the SEC. Look where they have been for the past 20 years. Improved facilities, bowl game every year, sold out stadium (with actual butts in all the seats every game), growing student body, perennially in the national conversation and ranked at the end of every season. They did not need to move to the SEC to accomplish this.
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bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2018, 02:57:33 pm »

TCU left the SWC but not for the SEC. Look where they have been for the past 20 years. Improved facilities, bowl game every year, sold out stadium (with actual butts in all the seats every game), growing student body, perennially in the national conversation and ranked at the end of every season. They did not need to move to the SEC to accomplish this.

DFWís population has also grown by 3 million since 1992. Thatís the equivalent of Arkansasís population, and Amon G. Carter seats 45,000. What TCU has had that Arkansas hasnít is Gary Patterson.
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HawgsPolo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2018, 05:44:35 pm »

Arkansas should not have let HDN leave for OM.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2018, 06:25:25 pm »

What makes Clemson able to compete against Florida State and the rest of the ACC?  Other than having the Chuck Norris of defense, your boy Venables?

A) They have Venables

B) They are located in a very strong recruiting area in a beautiful state

Bonus: They donít play in Little Rock??
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2018, 10:32:42 am »

Well, sadly, because of our inherent recruiting challenges with football, it's probably wise for fans to look to the other sports, if winning is all that floats their boat.  We're far more likely to be compete in Basketball and Baseball, than we are football.  Never mind track, golf. volleyball, WOMEN's softball (which was a blast to watch this season BTW, for those who missed it), and a lot of other sports not mentioned. 

It doesn't diminish the need to field a competitive football team.  People can speculate, and do all they want, but the fact remains....ALL of the recent NC winners have had perennial top 10 recruiting classes.  So...if they are hanging their hats on us doing more with less, then good luck with that.  The statistics show that as an overwhelmingly low probability UNTIL we can at least creep up near 10th in the nation. 

In effect, if the only reason to watch the football team is with the hope that we win a NC, then those fans should just look at our recruiting numbers every year, and save themselves the time and effort of watching games until they see the numbers jump tremendously.  Oh...and if they think that would change with a move to the Big 12...good luck.  We would still face the same challenges we face now. 

That's not a popular outlook for many, but it's the truth.  I watch because I hope we can field a team that competes hard, wins more than we lose, and will hopefully one day get a coach in place that can jump us up in recruiting, and have the planets align and compete for a NC. 

But...I know until recruiting numbers improve, that's a HIGH hurdle that would be based more on luck, than anything else. 


I agree with every bit of that post, and have been saying as much for years. I watch the football team because I always have, and I have many fond memories of watching games with various family members and friends. My 1st game live in 79, the 1st game with my wife, 1st game with my sons, watching games with my grandma, etc. However, games are just a small part of my life, and it boggles my mind that there are people who are basically sent into depression when the Hogs ( or any team for that matter ) takes a loss. I've never once been anywhere and thought " man, I wish the Hogs had won yesterday so these people would think more of ME ". Of course it is more fun when they win, but is it really the end of the world when they do not?

The recruiting thing is the one thing above all that I can not understand how others can just act like it is no big deal, like the program does not face recruiting issues that other teams do not face. Just tale this thread, TCU is now the poster boy for them. TCU is located in a metro area that probably produces more 4 * 5 star players in one year than the entire state of Arkansas does in a decade+. And, while it is a huge metro area, there is no big time fbs level program in that area. The closest BIG BOYS would be in Norman and Austin.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2018, 10:57:03 am »

I never said Bama is my measuring stick. So many here like you who put words in mouths of others because it is the way YOU think. Very much a simpleton. If I used one program as a measuring stick in the SEC, it might be A&M. Too bad we cannot win a game against them.

Most here have a different concept of what competing means and is than I do. 2 fortunate years is just that...luck more than anything else.

No, your measuring stick is about 1 inch long and on one end it says "Take shots at the Razorbacks" and on the other it says, "I define competitive as whatever I want so it makes the Razorbacks look bad."  In between it just has random things about how we're doomed, you're a fake fan, we will never win in the SEC, and there's really no reason to try.   ::)

urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2018, 11:02:41 am »

DFWís population has also grown by 3 million since 1992. Thatís the equivalent of Arkansasís population, and Amon G. Carter seats 45,000. What TCU has had that Arkansas hasnít is Gary Patterson.

Precisely.  Some don't want to acknowledge it, but that's a fact.  If we get a coach that can manage to bump us up about 15 spots in recruiting nationally, win some games to create interest, and send some guys to the NFL....things can turn around, similarly to what Clemson managed to do.  I still believe that, because we saw a glimpse of it with Petrino.  I still think he was very fortunate with the bumper crop of in-state talent that we won't see often, but that slack can be taken up with some kids from TX if Morris really can make inroads there. 

If winning 8-9 games is the norm, with an occasional 7 with a bowl game, and those few years where we have upper classmen laden teams that can get 10 or more...I'm pleased with that.  To me, that's competitive.  I don't care what people want to call it, but for us to win a NC it will require a big upgrade across the board, AND some luck.  That would be true for most teams. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2018, 11:10:46 am »

I agree with every bit of that post, and have been saying as much for years. I watch the football team because I always have, and I have many fond memories of watching games with various family members and friends. My 1st game live in 79, the 1st game with my wife, 1st game with my sons, watching games with my grandma, etc. However, games are just a small part of my life, and it boggles my mind that there are people who are basically sent into depression when the Hogs ( or any team for that matter ) takes a loss. I've never once been anywhere and thought " man, I wish the Hogs had won yesterday so these people would think more of ME ". Of course it is more fun when they win, but is it really the end of the world when they do not?

The recruiting thing is the one thing above all that I can not understand how others can just act like it is no big deal, like the program does not face recruiting issues that other teams do not face. Just tale this thread, TCU is now the poster boy for them. TCU is located in a metro area that probably produces more 4 * 5 star players in one year than the entire state of Arkansas does in a decade+. And, while it is a huge metro area, there is no big time fbs level program in that area. The closest BIG BOYS would be in Norman and Austin.

But...it's not insurmountable.  We have to have a great coach, and establish some tradition.  The FIRST step in that process, is to get better in recruiting.  Maybe it's because we don't cheat..at least enough anyway...or that we haven't won a lot in recent years, but that has to take an upward turn.  Maybe we get lucky and have a few key skill players that can have us win a few games we might otherwise lose, and that will get some wins without a big upturn, but statistics show CLEARLY that we have to improve to be competitive at the highest level. 

Now...contrast us with North Dakota State, and FCS school.  I'm confident they would have competed with us, and probably beaten us, the last 2-3 seasons.  How is that possible in a state that has roughly 600K people, and they are not even an FBS school?  That's about the combined population of NWA.  So...to suggest that it's not possible is myopic, but it starts with a really good coach, and nothing but time will tell if we have one or not. 
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2018, 11:27:14 am »

But...it's not insurmountable.  We have to have a great coach, and establish some tradition.  The FIRST step in that process, is to get better in recruiting.  Maybe it's because we don't cheat..at least enough anyway...or that we haven't won a lot in recent years, but that has to take an upward turn.  Maybe we get lucky and have a few key skill players that can have us win a few games we might otherwise lose, and that will get some wins without a big upturn, but statistics show CLEARLY that we have to improve to be competitive at the highest level. 

Now...contrast us with North Dakota State, and FCS school.  I'm confident they would have competed with us, and probably beaten us, the last 2-3 seasons.  How is that possible in a state that has roughly 600K people, and they are not even an FBS school?  That's about the combined population of NWA.  So...to suggest that it's not possible is myopic, but it starts with a really good coach, and nothing but time will tell if we have one or not. 

The issue with recruiting though is that, in the conference we are in, a top 20 class may still only be 8th in the league. When you continually play teams that get " better " players it is going to be hard to ever climb above that, especially consistently.

While I do not think it is impossible, I think it is highly unlikely. What is much more likely is what we have seen my entire lifetime. A far above average year or two of in state recruits, coupled with a handful of better than average out of state recruits, two ir 3 years after the class signees, they have a run of 1 or two really good years.  77, 79, the mid-late 80's with Hatfield, 98, 06, 10, 11. All those teams had the same characteristics.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2018, 02:06:19 pm »

TCU left the SWC but not for the SEC. Look where they have been for the past 20 years. Improved facilities, bowl game every year, sold out stadium (with actual butts in all the seats every game), growing student body, perennially in the national conversation and ranked at the end of every season. They did not need to move to the SEC to accomplish this.

Until they made a commitment and later was invited to join the little 12 they were not consistent. They left the SWC in 95 and werenít invited to join the little 12 until 2012. IF others had not left the little 12 then they never would have gotten that invitee next though they had been one of the better programs in the group of 5.
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Razor8

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2018, 02:37:26 pm »

TCU left the SWC but not for the SEC. Look where they have been for the past 20 years. Improved facilities, bowl game every year, sold out stadium (with actual butts in all the seats every game), growing student body, perennially in the national conversation and ranked at the end of every season. They did not need to move to the SEC to accomplish this.

What a load of Horse Cr@p, I thought you did better research than this.
In the last 20 years? TCU has been ranked at the end of the season 12 times not every year. (Only 3 of those coming as a member of the Big 12)  1 in the WAC, 2 in CUSA, 6 in the Mountain West, and 3 in the Big 12. BUT......11 of those have come under the Coaching of Gary Patterson. Its about having the right coach.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #89 on: June 06, 2018, 03:15:58 pm »

SWC (34 years): From 1958 to 1991, our overall record was 268-110-8 (.705) and 170-73-6 (.695) in conference games. We played .500 football or worse in seven of those 34 years.

SEC (26 years): Since 1992, our overall record is 171-144-2 (.543) and 91-116-2 (.440) in conference games. Since joining the SEC, we've had 11 seasons of .500 or worse football in eight fewer seasons.

Arguing that we have even close to as competitive in the SEC as the SWC is ridiculous; arguing that we can be is pretty much based on our record in 2010-11 - two seasons out of 26. Hope is not a plan.

I have thought for most of the last 26 years that our entry into the SEC was all about money, that JFB knew it, but that he also thought it was best for the long-term financial sustainability of our athletic programs.

(I do find it ironic that the popular position of late is that we must recruit Texas kids to win. That seems to be the case in athletics and academics.)

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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #90 on: June 06, 2018, 03:23:25 pm »

SWC (34 years): From 1958 to 1991, our overall record was 268-110-8 (.705) and 170-73-6 (.695) in conference games. We played .500 football or worse in seven of those 34 years.

SEC (26 years): Since 1992, our overall record is 171-144-2 (.543) and 91-116-2 (.440) in conference games. Since joining the SEC, we've had 11 seasons of .500 or worse football in eight fewer seasons.

Arguing that we have even close to as competitive in the SEC as the SWC is ridiculous; arguing that we can be is pretty much based on our record in 2010-11 - two seasons out of 26. Hope is not a plan.

I have thought for most of the last 26 years that our entry into the SEC was all about money, that JFB knew it, but that he also thought it was best for the long-term financial sustainability of our athletic programs.

(I do find it ironic that the popular position of late is that we must recruit Texas kids to win. That seems to be the case in athletics and academics.)
Plain as day. I've put these numbers up before here and I get the typical replies by fantasizers and those who hope for the impossible every season. You won't get same replies as I do. We are not competitive in the SEC. Arkansas is just another SC, KY, Ole Miss, Miss St or Vandy. The other 8 SEC teams use us as their easy conference win in general.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2018, 03:28:14 pm »

Plain as day. I've put these numbers up before here and I get the typical replies by fantasizers and those who hope for the impossible every season. You won't get same replies as I do. We are not competitive in the SEC. Arkansas is just another SC, KY, Ole Miss, Miss St or Vandy. The other 8 SEC teams use us as their easy conference win in general.

I'll add this. I've never been a big recruiting ratings guy, but the trend over the past several seasons has been that we're pretty good nationally, maybe top 25-30, but that translates into about 12th in the SEC. We've pretty much brought a knife to a gun fight for the last quarter century.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2018, 03:29:22 pm »

Plain as day. I've put these numbers up before here and I get the typical replies by fantasizers and those who hope for the impossible every season. You won't get same replies as I do. We are not competitive in the SEC. Arkansas is just another SC, KY, Ole Miss, Miss St or Vandy. The other 8 SEC teams use us as their easy conference win in general.
how do you define "competitive"?  we have beat a lot of teams in the SEC last I checked.  we even hold all time records against 5 teams in the SEC.

I'm not sure how you can look at that and claim we aren't competitive.

unless you define competitive by the number of SEC Championships owned.

in which case, there are only about 5 competitive teams in the SEC.

which still puts us in the majority of SEC teams that haven't won a conf championship in football.


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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2018, 03:29:52 pm »

SWC (34 years): From 1958 to 1991, our overall record was 268-110-8 (.705) and 170-73-6 (.695) in conference games. We played .500 football or worse in seven of those 34 years.

SEC (26 years): Since 1992, our overall record is 171-144-2 (.543) and 91-116-2 (.440) in conference games. Since joining the SEC, we've had 11 seasons of .500 or worse football in eight fewer seasons.

Arguing that we have even close to as competitive in the SEC as the SWC is ridiculous; arguing that we can be is pretty much based on our record in 2010-11 - two seasons out of 26. Hope is not a plan.

I have thought for most of the last 26 years that our entry into the SEC was all about money, that JFB knew it, but that he also thought it was best for the long-term financial sustainability of our athletic programs.

(I do find it ironic that the popular position of late is that we must recruit Texas kids to win. That seems to be the case in athletics and academics.)



from 1970 until they left the swc their record was 171-78-6  67% ( 108-55-5 ) 64%.  As you can see the win % in the swc dropped off after 1969 ( although still better than our sec years ) and that includes the last of the 80's when the swc was dying and the Hogs were pretty much the only team not on ncaay sanctions.

The recruit Texas thing is just a lazy cop out. They key is to recruit the best players ( or students in the academic side ) you can get. Texas just happens to be a big pool in the neighborhood. Problem is, everyone is swimming in that pool, so it is hard to get open water.

Academically it is easy to get Texas kids by offering in state tuition rates because those are significantly lower than in state rates at many Texas Universities. In football, I am sure Morris will get more Texas kids, but will they be leftovers after the in state schools and out of state big boys get what they want 1st?   
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2018, 03:29:58 pm »

I'll add this. I've never been a big recruiting ratings guy, but the trend over the past several seasons has been that we're pretty good nationally, maybe top 25-30, but that translates into about 12th in the SEC. We've pretty much brought a knife to a gun fight for the last quarter century.

Well, we aren't going anywhere, so one should enjoy as they choose.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2018, 03:30:29 pm »

Oh, to answer the OP's question...

Joining the SEC has pretty much allowed us to build some awesome facilities and to chant "SEC! SEC!" when other schools in our conference win stuff.

That's about it.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #96 on: June 06, 2018, 03:34:27 pm »

Bull. Weíd have played for the National Championship if weíd have been in the Big12 when Petrino was here. We wouldíve lost, but thatís higher profile than weíve ever been in the SEC. Plus weíd have likely won some conference titles, something we canít and wonít do in the SEC. Right now, the only team in the Big12 thatís a consistent legitimate threat is OU. Texas is as bad as us, KState is faltering, TTech is inconsistent at best and Baylor has bit the dust. Weíd easily be a top 3 team annually in the Big12, especially with A&M and Mizzou jumping ship.

Whatever.  Not buying it.  So easy to make fake NC claims if only we would have been in a different conference.  It's like telling my wife that I'd have the baby for her if I could.  I'll claim that all day, because I know I'll never be in a position to back it up.

Might we have fared a little better in general?  Very possible.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #97 on: June 06, 2018, 03:35:29 pm »

Oh, to answer the OP's question...

Joining the SEC has pretty much allowed us to build some awesome facilities and to chant "SEC! SEC!" when other schools in our conference win stuff.

That's about it.
then maybe we should try to win stuff ourselves.  or is it that you think we deserve a trophy just for being arkansas?

being in the SEC allows us to be financially competitive nationally.  above and beyond that, it is on the coaches and the players to win.

nobody is just handing out wins in the SEC because fans feel entitled.  the team has to earn every win.  and I'm proud of every win the team has achieved.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2018, 03:39:04 pm »

then maybe we should try to win stuff ourselves.  or is it that you think we deserve a trophy just for being arkansas?

I think we have been trying to win stuff ourselves. We just haven't been up to the challenge yet. What do we have now in football? Zero SEC Championships and two appearances in the SECCG in 26 years?

If you were to ask me when we will be able to straight-up consistently recruit the caliber of players in sufficient numbers to break into the upper echelon of the SEC, my answer would be short and simple: never. Couple that with the fact that our administration and the majority of Arkansas fans absolutely don't want us to buy players, and you get our reality for the past 26 years.

Oh, and I also agree with Rice's post above; we aren't going anywhere.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2018, 03:43:57 pm »

I think we have been trying to win stuff ourselves. We just haven't been up to the challenge yet. What do we have now in football? Zero SEC Championships and two appearances in the SECCG in 26 years?

If you were to ask me when we will be able to straight-up consistently recruit the caliber of players to break into the upper echelon of the SEC, my answer would be short and simple: never. Couple that with the fact that our administration and the majority of Arkansas fans absolutely don't want us to buy players, and you get our reality for the past 26 years.

Oh, and I also agree with Rice's post above; we aren't going anywhere.
so I guess we should just pack it up and quit?

when we earn an SEC championship on the field, we will get one, and not before.

that does not mean we aren't "competitive"

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