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Author Topic: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?  (Read 4752 times)

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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2018, 03:46:38 pm »

so I guess we should just pack it up and quit?

when we earn an SEC championship on the field, we will get one, and not before.

that does not mean we aren't "competitive"

That's going to depend on what a fan's definition of being "competitive" is, and that is totally subjective. It's like walking up to a group of people and asking them how tall a "tall" man is....some will say 6'-0", some 6'-3", some 6'-8."

Truth be told, I think most Razorback fans would be happy with a bowl trip every year and a Top 10-20 finish every four or five years.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2018, 04:13:46 pm »

That's going to depend on what a fan's definition of being "competitive" is, and that is totally subjective. It's like walking up to a group of people and asking them how tall a "tall" man is....some will say 6'-0", some 6'-3", some 6'-8."

Truth be told, I think most Razorback fans would be happy with a bowl trip every year and a Top 10-20 finish every four or five years.
I agree, the main thing that I believe is that while we may not be on the level of the SEC elite, we are within range to take shots at them every few years when circumstances line up.  I'm not sure what else the average team/fans can realistically ask for.
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AP85

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2018, 04:13:54 pm »

so I guess we should just pack it up and quit?

when we earn an SEC championship on the field, we will get one, and not before.

that does not mean we aren't "competitive"

Do you feel like we have been “competitive” the last 5 years?
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2018, 04:26:16 pm »

Do you feel like we have been “competitive” the last 5 years?

Yes, I do. But I define competitive as being capable of winning games, being in games at the end. Competitive and winning are two different words. Have they been winning? Not alot. But they have been in lots of games. Even last year. close losses to A&m, MSu and Mizzu.  Actually, in the 8 losses last year, they only got blown out twice - Bama and Aub. SC game was close into the late 3rd q, TCU was a one score game well into the 4th Q, and LSU was just death by paper cuts.

 

PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2018, 04:34:23 pm »

Do you feel like we have been “competitive” the last 5 years?
at times.  BA had one good year. 

however we are talking about the program being competitive as a whole, and I believe we have been.  we have only been successful in a handful of seasons though.
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LZH

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2018, 06:14:26 pm »

There wasn't one swinging **** on here after the Cotton Bowl win over KState that was saying we couldn't compete with the SEC elite. Alabama, Auburn, LSU...beat two of those three and then win the games you're supposed to and we're in the mix for a trip to Atlanta. If not, we're still a Top 5 team for sure. We didn't get to see it all happen but it looked like a damn fine future possibility before Harleygate.

Don't let fat boy's ineptness allow you to forget what Arkansas' potential is in the SEC.

HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2018, 06:18:38 pm »

I'll add this. I've never been a big recruiting ratings guy, but the trend over the past several seasons has been that we're pretty good nationally, maybe top 25-30, but that translates into about 12th in the SEC. We've pretty much brought a knife to a gun fight for the last quarter century.
Perfectly put. And that well explains our SEC record for 26 years.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2018, 06:19:43 pm »

There wasn't one swinging **** on here after the Cotton Bowl win over KState that was saying we couldn't compete with the SEC elite. Alabama, Auburn, LSU...beat two of those three and then win the games you're supposed to and we're in the mix for a trip to Atlanta. If not, we're still a Top 5 team for sure. We didn't get to see it all happen but it looked like a damn fine future possibility before Harleygate.

Don't let fat boy's ineptness allow you to forget what Arkansas' potential is in the SEC.

So you are convinced that if we just get the right coach here win can win, I dunno, maybe 100 to 120 games over a 10 or 12 year period?
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2018, 06:20:24 pm »

how do you define "competitive"?  we have beat a lot of teams in the SEC last I checked.  we even hold all time records against 5 teams in the SEC.

I'm not sure how you can look at that and claim we aren't competitive.

unless you define competitive by the number of SEC Championships owned.

in which case, there are only about 5 competitive teams in the SEC.

which still puts us in the majority of SEC teams that haven't won a conf championship in football.
Simple. Competitive = > .500 record in the SEC over the long haul. We are not even close to .500. And last 6 seasons, we are not even at 35% win rate.
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2018, 06:21:20 pm »

Oh, to answer the OP's question...

Joining the SEC has pretty much allowed us to build some awesome facilities and to chant "SEC! SEC!" when other schools in our conference win stuff.

That's about it.
Bingo.
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #110 on: June 06, 2018, 06:24:12 pm »

so I guess we should just pack it up and quit?

when we earn an SEC championship on the field, we will get one, and not before.

that does not mean we aren't "competitive"
No. Has Vandy quit the SEC? KY? Miss St? No they have not. We'll never quit the SEC as long as it is #1. But what we do need to quit is having a fanbase that thinks we're going 11-2 or 12-1 every *** year. Most years, and by most I mean 9 out of every 10, our program is going to be somewhere at or below 8-4 and 4-4 in SEC.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #111 on: June 06, 2018, 06:26:59 pm »

No. Has Vandy quit the SEC? KY? Miss St? No they have not. We'll never quit the SEC as long as it is #1. But what we do need to quit is having a fanbase that thinks we're going 11-2 or 12-1 every *** year. Most years, and by most I mean 9 out of every 10, our program is going to be somewhere at or below 8-4 and 4-4 in SEC.
4-4 in the SEC is a solid year.  that has been my litmus test for as long as I can remember.  If Morris can pull that off in his first year, we will be in good shape.  even Petrino couldn't do that until his third year.

speaking of Petrino, I can't help but laugh that this is the first picture that shows up on google



he hasn't been at arkansas for years, but that is what he will forever be known for.
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LZH

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #112 on: June 06, 2018, 06:41:16 pm »

So you are convinced that if we just get the right coach here win can win, I dunno, maybe 100 to 120 games over a 10 or 12 year period?

Not sure how many teams have actually done that for that long, but in three or four year spurts? Sure, why not. With the right guy at the wheel, a six-win season at Arkansas should be a real down year.
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #113 on: June 06, 2018, 06:48:39 pm »

A great coach can out-scheme his opponent - for a time. Eventually, opponents are going to neutralize what that coach does best, and success or failure will come down to having as good, or better, players than the opponent. Dabo Swinney isn't suddenly winning at Clemson with smoke and mirrors; he's doing it with damn fine football players, and more than one or two per class. Same with Kirby Smart at Georgia.

Chad Morris has one of the best offensive minds in college football, but the defensive coordinators that he and Joe Craddock will game plan against every week are pretty good in their own right. We may win a few games this year off of the shot of enthusiasm and the ability to motivate that CM and his staff will bring to the BAC. That's only going to take us so far as a program. Eventually, if we are to get to the upper echelon of the SEC and stay there, it will only be when you can compare our roster with that of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, etc. and see no distinction. It will only be when you look at those recruiting rankings every year and see us in the top 5-10.     

Sorry, but I don't see that happening for a sustained number of years. Once every four or five we get a favorable schedule, stay healthy, get a few breaks - yeah, that year we may just make it to Atlanta. Most seasons, however, the discussion will be more along the lines of whether we're gonna go to Memphis, Houston, or maybe Dallas in late December.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:58:52 pm by WilsonHog »
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #114 on: June 06, 2018, 07:03:00 pm »

A great coach can out-scheme his opponent - for a time. Eventually, opponents are going to neutralize what that coach does best, and success or failure will come down to having as good, or better, players than the opponent. Dabo Swinney isn't suddenly winning at Clemson with smoke and mirrors; he's doing it with damn fine football players, and more than one or two per class. Same with Kirby Smart at Georgia.

Chad Morris has one of the best offensive minds in college football, but the defensive coordinators that he and Joe Craddock will game plan against every week are pretty good in their own right. We may win a few games this year off of the shot of enthusiasm and the ability to motivate that CM and his staff will bring to the BAC. That's only going to take us so far as a program. Eventually, if we are to get to the upper echelon of the SEC and stay there, it will only be when you can compare our roster with that of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, etc. and see no distinction. It will only be when you look at those recruiting rankings every year and see us in the top 5-10.     

Sorry, but I don't see that happening for a sustained number of years. Once every four or five we get a favorable schedule, stay healthy, get a few breaks - yeah, that year we may just make it to Atlanta. Most seasons, however, the discussion will be more along the lines of whether we're gonna go to Memphis, Houston, or maybe Dallas in late December.

I think our fan base would be ecstatic if we were playing for Atlanta every 4 or 5 years. Winning 8 games with the occasional 10 games would be great, can we get there, history says no, but it's fun seeing if we can.
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bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2018, 07:19:27 pm »

A great coach can out-scheme his opponent - for a time. Eventually, opponents are going to neutralize what that coach does best, and success or failure will come down to having as good, or better, players than the opponent. Dabo Swinney isn't suddenly winning at Clemson with smoke and mirrors; he's doing it with damn fine football players, and more than one or two per class. Same with Kirby Smart at Georgia.

Chad Morris has one of the best offensive minds in college football, but the defensive coordinators that he and Joe Craddock will game plan against every week are pretty good in their own right. We may win a few games this year off of the shot of enthusiasm and the ability to motivate that CM and his staff will bring to the BAC. That's only going to take us so far as a program. Eventually, if we are to get to the upper echelon of the SEC and stay there, it will only be when you can compare our roster with that of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, etc. and see no distinction. It will only be when you look at those recruiting rankings every year and see us in the top 5-10.     

Sorry, but I don't see that happening for a sustained number of years. Once every four or five we get a favorable schedule, stay healthy, get a few breaks - yeah, that year we may just make it to Atlanta. Most seasons, however, the discussion will be more along the lines of whether we're gonna go to Memphis, Houston, or maybe Dallas in late December.

There was a time when Arkansas’s roster was comparable with every team on that list year-in-and-year out except Alabama. And that was “post-integration”.  The NCAA recognizes 13 national championships at Alabama. No other SEC school has more than 3. No one is going to have Alabama’s roster over time. We can compete with the rest. Our recruiting ranking will go up when we start winning. They’re self-fulfilling prophecies anyway.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #116 on: June 06, 2018, 07:32:50 pm »

No. Has Vandy quit the SEC? KY? Miss St? No they have not. We'll never quit the SEC as long as it is #1. But what we do need to quit is having a fanbase that thinks we're going 11-2 or 12-1 every *** year. Most years, and by most I mean 9 out of every 10, our program is going to be somewhere at or below 8-4 and 4-4 in SEC.

I really don’t believe we have a fan base that thinks we will go 10+ wins every year.  Now if we ramped up to that in the next 10 years that might become the new expectations as fans are prone to do, but no right now that’s not our fan base.

CBP went 10 two years in a row and I still wasn’t expecting it in the third year, possible but not expecting.  There is a difference.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #117 on: June 06, 2018, 07:38:00 pm »

A great coach can out-scheme his opponent - for a time. Eventually, opponents are going to neutralize what that coach does best, and success or failure will come down to having as good, or better, players than the opponent. Dabo Swinney isn't suddenly winning at Clemson with smoke and mirrors; he's doing it with damn fine football players, and more than one or two per class. Same with Kirby Smart at Georgia.

Chad Morris has one of the best offensive minds in college football, but the defensive coordinators that he and Joe Craddock will game plan against every week are pretty good in their own right. We may win a few games this year off of the shot of enthusiasm and the ability to motivate that CM and his staff will bring to the BAC. That's only going to take us so far as a program. Eventually, if we are to get to the upper echelon of the SEC and stay there, it will only be when you can compare our roster with that of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, etc. and see no distinction. It will only be when you look at those recruiting rankings every year and see us in the top 5-10.     

Sorry, but I don't see that happening for a sustained number of years. Once every four or five we get a favorable schedule, stay healthy, get a few breaks - yeah, that year we may just make it to Atlanta. Most seasons, however, the discussion will be more along the lines of whether we're gonna go to Memphis, Houston, or maybe Dallas in late December.

I agree and I truly believe despite the angst over 4-8(which is in no way comparable to 8-4 or even 7-5) that Arkansas fans ARE knowledgeable about the levels of sustainable success.  I think most know what the ingredients are.

I think the very few that come out with wild statements and opinions are only there to get you “reality check” guys to respond.  Funny but back during the season certain ones were making fun of the reality guys, seems to me it’s those same guys who are the reality check guys now.

 
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WilsonHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #118 on: June 06, 2018, 07:50:17 pm »

I agree and I truly believe despite the angst over 4-8(which is in no way comparable to 8-4 or even 7-5) that Arkansas fans ARE knowledgeable about the levels of sustainable success.  I think most know what the ingredients are.

I think the very few that come out with wild statements and opinions are only there to get you “reality check” guys to respond.  Funny but back during the season certain ones were making fun of the reality guys, seems to me it’s those same guys who are the reality check guys now.

I think, and have thought for about 20 years, that on balance we should be 8-4 program. An occasional 6-6 season, an occasional 10-win campaign, but most years in the 7-5 to 9-3 range.

j-mann

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #119 on: June 06, 2018, 09:03:50 pm »

we wouild have never been in the big12  Texas was going to freeze us out in 95/96   we would had to done the TCU route   be in C-USA/ACC

then go to the ACC somewhere between 2004-2015    we wouild be in louisvillie spot now  do u want BAMA LSU AUBURN  every year  or CLEM/FSU   

or door number 2  stuck  in the MWEST/AAC  playing Hou MEM  every year   and having a 50'000 fvillie  stadium

i might make a post  on this   the main q is is 95 98-01 06  09-11 in SEC Football been worth it for hurting our basketball program     that wouild had made a final 4 between 96 and now esp if we joined the ACC in 2004 
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #120 on: June 07, 2018, 12:04:33 am »

4-4 in the SEC is a solid year.  that has been my litmus test for as long as I can remember.  If Morris can pull that off in his first year, we will be in good shape.  even Petrino couldn't do that until his third year.

speaking of Petrino, I can't help but laugh that this is the first picture that shows up on google



he hasn't been at arkansas for years, but that is what he will forever be known for.
You obviously are very young...less than 30?

Morris is not taking this team to 4-4 and 8-4 this year. That should not be expected. 6 wins will be an excellent season. Best we should hope for in our dreams.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #121 on: June 07, 2018, 12:46:05 am »

Whatever.  Not buying it.  So easy to make fake NC claims if only we would have been in a different conference.  It's like telling my wife that I'd have the baby for her if I could.  I'll claim that all day, because I know I'll never be in a position to back it up.

Might we have fared a little better in general?  Very possible.

Alright then. Lets not look at possibilities and hypotheticals. Instead, lets look at what has actually occurred. WilsonHog laid it out very well:


SWC (34 years): From 1958 to 1991, our overall record was 268-110-8 (.705) and 170-73-6 (.695) in conference games. We played .500 football or worse in seven of those 34 years.

SEC (26 years): Since 1992, our overall record is 171-144-2 (.543) and 91-116-2 (.440) in conference games. Since joining the SEC, we've had 11 seasons of .500 or worse football in eight fewer seasons.

Arguing that we have even close to as competitive in the SEC as the SWC is ridiculous; arguing that we can be is pretty much based on our record in 2010-11 - two seasons out of 26. Hope is not a plan.


^^^That's pretty cut and dry.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #122 on: June 07, 2018, 06:24:04 am »

we wouild have never been in the big12  Texas was going to freeze us out in 95/96   we would had to done the TCU route   be in C-USA/ACC

then go to the ACC somewhere between 2004-2015    we wouild be in louisvillie spot now  do u want BAMA LSU AUBURN  every year  or CLEM/FSU   

or door number 2  stuck  in the MWEST/AAC  playing Hou MEM  every year   and having a 50'000 fvillie  stadium

i might make a post  on this   the main q is is 95 98-01 06  09-11 in SEC Football been worth it for hurting our basketball program     that wouild had made a final 4 between 96 and now esp if we joined the ACC in 2004

This^^^

Is just wrong!
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oldhawg

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #123 on: June 07, 2018, 06:35:22 am »


"6 wins will be an excellent season."


Now that is attitudinal progress.  :)  This is the first time I have seen you even hint that the Razorbacks might be bowl eligible this year.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #124 on: June 07, 2018, 07:27:01 am »

Alright then. Lets not look at possibilities and hypotheticals. Instead, lets look at what has actually occurred. WilsonHog laid it out very well:



^^^That's pretty cut and dry.

Again, different eras.  Do I think we could have fared better in the Big12.  I can admit yes.  Would we have won NC's?  Of course not.  Bama wipes its arse with us most every year.  And even if we'd have made a NC game, we're still likely playing Bama. 

But yes, Big12 is inferior to SEC.  Who knew?!
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Nashville Fan

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2018, 07:57:21 am »

4-4 in the SEC is a solid year.  that has been my litmus test for as long as I can remember.  If Morris can pull that off in his first year, we will be in good shape.  even Petrino couldn't do that until his third year.

speaking of Petrino, I can't help but laugh that this is the first picture that shows up on google



he hasn't been at arkansas for years, but that is what he will forever be known for.
Totally agree, 8 wins should be the requirement to feel good about a season. That would mean that we are middle of the SEC west pack - respectable again.
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majp51

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2018, 08:24:36 am »

The biggest benefit from Arkansas joining the SEC is the money grab. But outside of money and facilities, has being in the SEC benefited the Hogs in any way on the football field? I don't recall this much disappointment and feeling of mediocrity in the SWC days. And no this isn't a "Arkansas needs to go to the Big 12" debate. But im just asking what have the Hogs benefitted from in regards to the on-the-field product as as SEC member over the years.

OK so a narrow question, because If you look at Baseball, for instance, Arkansas has improved significantly since joining the SEC.

Still I think you are making a mistake in your comparison. The 1980's and prior were very regionalized for sports, and the SWC was Arkansas, Texas and a bunch of other schools in Texas that primarily fought for the scraps of recruits left over in Texas, unless they cheated big time like SMU. Basically during that time frame the SWC was the Sunbelt conference with Texas , Arkansas, and to a lesser degree A&M.

But consider this as well, during the SEC days'  Arkansas has selected only one HC to date that was a success.

Jack Crowe (SEC First Year)
Danny Ford (End of his career yet still provided 1 More SEC Championship Game Thant A&M, Ole Miss, Kentucky, or Vanderbilt have every accomplished)
Houston Nutt (AN overrated coach, who after minor success here, was let go, then stank it up at Ole Miss)
Bobby Petrino (Great System Coach on the field, poor excuse for a person off the field, First coach to actually leave Arkansas and be productive since Lou Holtz)
John L. Smith (Mediocre in his prime, and no where near his prime when he was HC for a year here)
Bret Bielema (A coach who made HDN tenure look better than it was)

Even with that giant collection of mostly average, or end of career "mailing it in", coaches Arkansas has gone to 3 SEC Championship Games, and has finished 1st or tied for 1st in the SEC west at least 4 times.


But let's ignore the bad coaching decisions and the fact that Arkansas has been more competitive since joining the league than most member institutions, and accept your premise. The problem still becomes, you live in a a fantasy land where there is a conference that has some clout that Arkansas could move into and be part of the "Haves" while feasting on a large Collection of "Have Nots".

In order to have a National profile for more than 1 season (as a mid major media darling) you would have to move to a Power 5 conference. Even in 1992, Arkansas would not be anywhere near the cream of the crop in the PAC 12, Big 12, ACC, Big10, or Big East from the beginning of theConference Craze . Seeing as the BIG10, PAC12, and ACC would not have taken us, that Leaves us only with teh Big 12 (Likely) and Big East (maybe)

But with the Big 12 in the mid 90's onward Arkansas with it coaching decisions would have still been fighting just to make 5th place, falling behind Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas State (once Bill Snyder got there) , Oklahoma State, with Basically Arkansas, A&M and Texas Tech fighting for the 5th place on average.

With the Big East, the placement would have likely been 4th place, Behind Syracuse, Miami, and Virginia Tech, but at the same time, you would still end up dealing with trying to find a meaningful conference once that league imploded.

The point with all the above, is that the meaningful conferences Arkansas could have moved to were not going to make them a national contenders, and would have only meant a cosmetic number change at the end of the season.
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majp51

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #127 on: June 07, 2018, 08:39:35 am »

Besides Alabama, who are the other of the "Big 6" in the SEC?

The Irony is that the same people that use our history pre SEC, only use current SEC to define those numbers.

In Reality until modern (post 1992) There have really only been 2 consistent Power Schools. Alabama, and Georgia. Every other School is either an Also Ran of Sorts (Ole Miss, MSU, UK, and Vandy) or Competitive but not consistent (LSU, Tennessee, Florida, and Auburn).

Post 1992 and Pre Saban, Florida Briefly moved into the Power spot, but Alabama actually dropped out, looking rather pedestrian in the Latter Gene Stalling Era all the way to Saban being hired.

If you want to look at purely the current landscape, We still don't have the "Power 6". We Have Alabama in the West. We have the potential of Georgia in the East (although we need a couple of more years in the Kirby Smart Era to prove that), and everything else is up in the air. As for the schools with the highest winning Percentages in teh SEC, well only Alabama could consider Arkansas (since 1992) to be a rent-a win.
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majp51

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #128 on: June 07, 2018, 08:52:14 am »

TCU left the SWC but not for the SEC. Look where they have been for the past 20 years. Improved facilities, bowl game every year, sold out stadium (with actual butts in all the seats every game), growing student body, perennially in the national conversation and ranked at the end of every season. They did not need to move to the SEC to accomplish this.

Oh and let's not forget that TCU's 2 best Coaching Hires happened in succession. Dennis Franchione followed by Gary Patterson. Petrino is the only coach we have hired that comes close to these two coaches (And granted clearly exceed DF)
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #129 on: June 07, 2018, 09:17:25 am »

Money, at least SEC money, was not, is not, and will not fix the problems on the field. Now, money illegally paid may buy better recruits. Money may hire a coaching staff that can go get better players than the program usually gets ( or at least more top level players ). At the end of the day it still comes down to the fact that the program does not get enough Jimmy's and Joe's that are better than the ones at Bama/Aub/Ga/LSU to CONSISTENTLY play with or defeat those teams. Even in the supposed best two seasons in the entire time in the sec, 10/11, the Hogs only got close to beating one of the teams they needed to beat to get to ATl and maybe beyond, and that was a loss at home to Bama in 2010, a bama team that went on to lose 3 SEC games, because they did not have the players to win the games they needed to win.

When the talent is equal or close to it, then yes, coaching matters, but as long as the top teams in the league are recruiting in the top 10 nationally, and the Hogs are somewhere between 20 and 30, then they will continue to struggle.

Nashville Fan

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2018, 09:26:16 am »

If you add all sports together, Men's and Women's, AR has won 27% of all regular season SEC championships since joining the SEC - Only FL has won more. AR has won SEC championships in 49% of the sports.

It is 100% bad coaching hires that keep AR from competing in any sport.
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2018, 09:32:28 am »

If you add all sports together, Men's and Women's, AR has won 27% of all regular season SEC championships since joining the SEC - Only FL has won more. AR has won SEC championships in 49% of the sports.

It is 100% bad coaching hires that keep AR from competing in any sport.

Funny, they win in all the sports where you don't need nearly as many players as you do in football.
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Nashville Fan

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #132 on: June 07, 2018, 09:35:58 am »

Funny, they win in all the sports where you don't need nearly as many players as you do in football.
Enough kids don't want to play for bad coaches? You need more superstars for football to win and superstars don't want to play for bad coaches?
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bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #133 on: June 07, 2018, 09:45:35 am »

The 1980's and prior were very regionalized for sports, and the SWC was Arkansas, Texas and a bunch of other schools in Texas that primarily fought for the scraps of recruits left over in Texas, unless they cheated big time like SMU. Basically during that time frame the SWC was the Sunbelt conference with Texas , Arkansas, and to a lesser degree A&M.


There's a whole lot of good perspective and truth in your posts in this thread - except for this.  The SWC was always a P5-level conference, even in it's final days.  Houston, SMU (whether they cheated or not), Baylor and Texas Tech all had very good years, especially during the 70s and 80s.  TCU and Rice were the only perennial doormats, and even Rice had some decent teams.  National Media considered the SWC to be one of the best conferences in the country.  The only schools in the Big 8 that were worth mentioning in most years were Oklahoma and Nebraska.  Colorado was much better then and had some good years.  Kansas State was widely considered to be the worst team in Div. I.  Oklahoma State was nothing like it is today.  The Big 10 and the Pac 10 were the biggest dogs top to bottom in the 60s, 70s and 80s.  Even they were top heavy.  USC and UCLA were the Pac 10, and Ohio State and Michigan were the Big 10, with an occasional appearance from Michigan State. Oregon was terrible.  The SEC wasn't far behind, but Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee were the perennial powers there.  LSU and Auburn generally had good teams. Florida was not a factor until Spurrier came along to start the 90's.  Ole Miss's best days were the 50s and early 60s. Mississippi State and Kentucky were bottom feeders nationally.  The ACC was not a factor at all.  Miami and Penn State were independents. 

The SWC was especially potent from the mid-70s to the mid-80s, when Texas, Arkansas, Houston (especially), Texas A&M, and Baylor were all very good. 

You're right about coaches.  Arkansas is one coach away from being "relevant" again, as some like to put it.     
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RazorWest

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #134 on: June 07, 2018, 10:00:12 am »

Money rules in business and collegiate sports are a business. Hog fans don’t expect ten wins a year. Just competent coaching and hard work. We’ve seen neither recently
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IronHog

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #135 on: June 07, 2018, 10:31:41 am »

I think, and have thought for about 20 years, that on balance we should be 8-4 program. An occasional 6-6 season, an occasional 10-win campaign, but most years in the 7-5 to 9-3 range.



So football for the sake of football.  We’re bad but better than ASU.....cause we say so.


At least OM tried to win .
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IronHog

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #136 on: June 07, 2018, 10:35:55 am »

we wouild have never been in the big12  Texas was going to freeze us out in 95/96   we would had to done the TCU route   be in C-USA/ACC

then go to the ACC somewhere between 2004-2015    we wouild be in louisvillie spot now  do u want BAMA LSU AUBURN  every year  or CLEM/FSU   

or door number 2  stuck  in the MWEST/AAC  playing Hou MEM  every year   and having a 50'000 fvillie  stadium

i might make a post  on this   the main q is is 95 98-01 06  09-11 in SEC Football been worth it for hurting our basketball program     that wouild had made a final 4 between 96 and now esp if we joined the ACC in 2004 



The Texas/Ark breakup has NOT gone well for either program


Like it or not Texas and Arkansas need each other in football
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majp51

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #137 on: June 07, 2018, 10:38:16 am »

Money, at least SEC money, was not, is not, and will not fix the problems on the field. Now, money illegally paid may buy better recruits. Money may hire a coaching staff that can go get better players than the program usually gets ( or at least more top level players ). At the end of the day it still comes down to the fact that the program does not get enough Jimmy's and Joe's that are better than the ones at Bama/Aub/Ga/LSU to CONSISTENTLY play with or defeat those teams. Even in the supposed best two seasons in the entire time in the sec, 10/11, the Hogs only got close to beating one of the teams they needed to beat to get to ATl and maybe beyond, and that was a loss at home to Bama in 2010, a bama team that went on to lose 3 SEC games, because they did not have the players to win the games they needed to win.

When the talent is equal or close to it, then yes, coaching matters, but as long as the top teams in the league are recruiting in the top 10 nationally, and the Hogs are somewhere between 20 and 30, then they will continue to struggle.


Hogsanity, I think I risk talking past your point , but I believe you point is only valid with the discussion speaking to Competing consistently with Alabama, and Georgia (presuming Kirby smart has staying power). A good to great coach, with the right recruiting plan will get us competitive for spots 4-6 in the SEC. I agree with you that our Recruiting disadvantages makes it unlikely to consistently be so close to the top that a stumble by UGA or Bama puts Arkansas in the BCS playoff. But our recruiting has not what has kept us out of the 4-6 spots.
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #138 on: June 07, 2018, 10:39:16 am »

No, your measuring stick is about 1 inch long and on one end it says "Take shots at the Razorbacks" and on the other it says, "I define competitive as whatever I want so it makes the Razorbacks look bad."  In between it just has random things about how we're doomed, you're a fake fan, we will never win in the SEC, and there's really no reason to try.   ::)

Don't forget that it includes balking on bets as well...
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #139 on: June 07, 2018, 11:25:00 am »


Hogsanity, I think I risk talking past your point , but I believe you point is only valid with the discussion speaking to Competing consistently with Alabama, and Georgia (presuming Kirby smart has staying power). A good to great coach, with the right recruiting plan will get us competitive for spots 4-6 in the SEC. I agree with you that our Recruiting disadvantages makes it unlikely to consistently be so close to the top that a stumble by UGA or Bama puts Arkansas in the BCS playoff. But our recruiting has not what has kept us out of the 4-6 spots.

What's the right recruiting plan?  What does "competitive for spots 4-6 in the SEC." mean?  We win 50% of our games against other SEC teams in those same spots?
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #140 on: June 07, 2018, 11:45:01 am »

A great coach can out-scheme his opponent - for a time. Eventually, opponents are going to neutralize what that coach does best, and success or failure will come down to having as good, or better, players than the opponent. Dabo Swinney isn't suddenly winning at Clemson with smoke and mirrors; he's doing it with damn fine football players, and more than one or two per class. Same with Kirby Smart at Georgia.

Chad Morris has one of the best offensive minds in college football, but the defensive coordinators that he and Joe Craddock will game plan against every week are pretty good in their own right. We may win a few games this year off of the shot of enthusiasm and the ability to motivate that CM and his staff will bring to the BAC. That's only going to take us so far as a program. Eventually, if we are to get to the upper echelon of the SEC and stay there, it will only be when you can compare our roster with that of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, etc. and see no distinction. It will only be when you look at those recruiting rankings every year and see us in the top 5-10.     

Sorry, but I don't see that happening for a sustained number of years. Once every four or five we get a favorable schedule, stay healthy, get a few breaks - yeah, that year we may just make it to Atlanta. Most seasons, however, the discussion will be more along the lines of whether we're gonna go to Memphis, Houston, or maybe Dallas in late December.

Nailed it with the sentence on recruiting.  Fan excitement matter more than some lead on.  I could watch a Matt Jones led football team scramble for 6 wins, and be far more content than I would watching a BB coached team run a dive play on 3rd and 2 and proceed to lose a yard every time against 10 in the box, even if they win 8 games.  But...that's just me. 

But...the recruiting part is the key, and to be blunt, I'm not sure we are willing to cheat enough to be competitive.  I know some view that as a cop out, but look at Ole Miss.  Other than MS having a lot of athletes per capita, their recruiting numbers versus ours are fishy at best.  Some of that may have been the reluctance to want to play in BB's plodding system...we'll see pretty quickly since CCM is the polar opposite.

One thing that ALWAYS stands out to me is this.  We are in the SEC, and there is always a segment of fans who think we can't compete there, but we would do much better in the Big 12 or another conference.  BUT....they are basing that on WHAT we have been lately, as a RESULT of being in the SEC, having SEC money, and being able to recruit athletes that want to play in the SEC with the hope if helping them on to the NFL.  So it's the..."If we can do what we're doing in the SEC, then we should dominate in other conferences where we won't be as beat up, and won't face the same level of competition." 

I vehemently disagree.  That premise on its own merit is basically saying that the SEC is the best conference, and if we're average there, we would be great elsewhere.  BUT...WHEN YOU LOSE that edge of the money, pull, and weekly competition, you drop.  It's human nature.  You're either progressing, or going backward.  JFB knew that, and there was nowhere to go but down by staying in the SWC at the time. 

So what has the money done to help us on the field?  It has allowed us to provide facilities that are worthy of recruiting the best athletes to play in the elite conference in the nation.  We haven't won at a clip that is acceptable, but several of those losses in the 2016 campaign....we were competitive, but just laid eggs late in the game.  Context matters, and I don't think we're some great distance away from at least getting up there a notch behind the Bama's and UGA's of the conference.  By year three under CCM, we'll see how we stand.  It took CBP that long, so there's no reason to think it won't take CCM that long.     

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #141 on: June 07, 2018, 11:49:57 am »

There wasn't one swinging **** on here after the Cotton Bowl win over KState that was saying we couldn't compete with the SEC elite. Alabama, Auburn, LSU...beat two of those three and then win the games you're supposed to and we're in the mix for a trip to Atlanta. If not, we're still a Top 5 team for sure. We didn't get to see it all happen but it looked like a damn fine future possibility before Harleygate.

Don't let fat boy's ineptness allow you to forget what Arkansas' potential is in the SEC.

A few of us were cautioning a decline was likely coming even if short term because of how many impact players played their last college game in that Cotton Bowl.  Of course it was ignored as most confused us having a couple of upper level teams to having an upper level SEC program built. 
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TexHog188

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #142 on: June 07, 2018, 12:03:13 pm »

On the field, as a fan, I’ve really enjoyed high caliber football while we’ve played in the SEC. Sure I’d like to win a lot more, but watching SEC football when the hogs are involved is much more exciting than B12 football.  We play week in and week out the best teams in college football and those games are exciting to watch. 
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IronHog

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #143 on: June 07, 2018, 12:10:23 pm »

On the field, as a fan, I’ve really enjoyed high caliber football while we’ve played in the SEC. Sure I’d like to win a lot more, but watching SEC football when the hogs are involved is much more exciting than B12 football.  We play week in and week out the best teams in college football and those games are exciting to watch. 


2/8 SEC games are vs Mizzou and aTm.  Those should be on Big12 network


Getting curb stomped by Bama and Miss St isn’t fun


UAF isn’t a SEC school.  It just hasn’t worked anywhere but the spreadsheet
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #144 on: June 07, 2018, 12:21:36 pm »

One thing that ALWAYS stands out to me is this.  We are in the SEC, and there is always a segment of fans who think we can't compete there, but we would do much better in the Big 12 or another conference.  BUT....they are basing that on WHAT we have been lately, as a RESULT of being in the SEC, having SEC money, and being able to recruit athletes that want to play in the SEC with the hope if helping them on to the NFL.  So it's the..."If we can do what we're doing in the SEC, then we should dominate in other conferences where we won't be as beat up, and won't face the same level of competition." 


You touched on something ignored in this B12 debate.  Had we stayed in the SWC and then been a part of the B12 (guessing at Baylor or TT's expense), we would have just kept our isolated recruiting base plus not acquired the resources we did to do the upgrades we have.  We wouldn't have been the program we've been however mediocre it has appeared.  May have won more games just due to the competition.  Wouldn't mean our teams were any better.  The coaching hire mistakes and mismanagement has hurt us more than anything.  Nutt over Tuberville.  Not "encouraging" Nutt to get on the plane in 03.  Allowing Broyles to stay so many years past when he should have retired.  White's meddling.  Had this happened with us in the B12, we would have endured the same rollercoaster we've been on.  Plus not be secure in our conference affiliation if Texas and/or OU decides to bolt.  We will always have fans obsessed with the state of Texas.  Been pleasantly surprised by Morris' recruiting not showing he and his staff are as obsessed. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #145 on: June 07, 2018, 12:41:02 pm »

A few of us were cautioning a decline was likely coming even if short term because of how many impact players played their last college game in that Cotton Bowl.  Of course it was ignored as most confused us having a couple of upper level teams to having an upper level SEC program built.

But our situation is unique in that ANY team that beats Bama is considered an anomaly.  No other conference is like that, other than I guess you could argue for Clemson in the ACC at the moment, and especially with the unknowns at Fla State. 

I totally agree with the assessment following the 2011 season.  I expected a drop off, and it was discussed on this board, but I think we all thought it would probably only be a year or two before another upswing with Petrino at the helm.  What we didn't know was...he had recruited about 42 WR's, and not enough of other positions, and sustaining at the level may have proven harder than we perceived.  But...that point is arguable, and some will believe that the drop we're seeing at Louisville wouldn't have happened here under CBP, but history...sort of says otherwise with him. 

Point is...I think CBP is an amazing mind.  I don't think he's an amazing recruiter by any means.  So...to even try to point to his success as the long term indicator, is still difficult.  We're going to see if someone with supposed great ties to TX, who can pull some elite talent from that state, can build something sustainable.  I don't want to over sell it, but I think this will start to paint a picture of what the UA can do in football.  It's my sincere hope that the fans show up with realistic expectations, and that CCM builds the program the right way, and we reach a level that most fans think we "deserve." 
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #146 on: June 07, 2018, 12:43:58 pm »


2/8 SEC games are vs Mizzou and aTm.  Those should be on Big12 network


Getting curb stomped by Bama and Miss St isn’t fun


UAF isn’t a SEC school.  It just hasn’t worked anywhere but the spreadsheet

When was the last time they got curb stomped by MSU? Last year MSu won in the waning seconds. 2 years ago the Hogs won at Starkville. 3 years ago MSU won 51-50, 4 years ago MSu, ranked #1, won by a td at Starkville, and the Hogs had a shot in the EZ at the end to tie that one.

Matter of FACT, the largest margin of victory for MSU was 45-14 in starkville in 2012. And MSu has only beaten the Hogs 8 times since the Hogs joined the SEC.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #147 on: June 07, 2018, 12:49:14 pm »


2/8 SEC games are vs Mizzou and aTm.  Those should be on Big12 network


Getting curb stomped by Bama and Miss St isn’t fun


UAF isn’t a SEC school.  It just hasn’t worked anywhere but the spreadsheet

Well, if you're using that rationale, then how did you like getting murdered by Auburn last year?  We stunk.  We all know that.  But...pointing to getting curb stomped by Bama doesn't really say anything, because that's the norm for most teams facing them. 

What you're suggesting is that we would fare better in the Big 12, I assume.  It's like saying, "Bama would just cake walk through the Big 12, so why don't they drop from the SEC and make life easier.  Saban could win the NC every year if they did that." 

No...because then they wouldn't have the prestige, and the players that might otherwise go there to be a part of the best conference, and move up to the NFL, would go to FLA and UGA instead.  I keep saying it, because it's true...you drop down in competition, and you drop across the board.  If people really think we could keep what we have, and use our "mediocre" status in the SEC to go tear up CUSA, they are dreaming.  We would lose that advantage immediately, and get a different caliber of athlete to campus. 

Man...I can't believe I get sucked into this debate over and over.  It's pointless, because we are not going to be in a conference with TX where they have a bigger hammer than everyone else.  It won't happen, so these discussions are pointless to begin with. 

But while we're at it...maybe with the way the Royals are struggling this season, they should drop back to AAA where they can win every game.   ::) 
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hogsanity

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #148 on: June 07, 2018, 12:55:07 pm »

Well, if you're using that rationale, then how did you like getting murdered by Auburn last year?  We stunk.  We all know that.  But...pointing to getting curb stomped by Bama doesn't really say anything, because that's the norm for most teams facing them. 

What you're suggesting is that we would fare better in the Big 12, I assume.  It's like saying, "Bama would just cake walk through the Big 12, so why don't they drop from the SEC and make life easier.  Saban could win the NC every year if they did that." 

No...because then they wouldn't have the prestige, and the players that might otherwise go there to be a part of the best conference, and move up to the NFL, would go to FLA and UGA instead.  I keep saying it, because it's true...you drop down in competition, and you drop across the board.  If people really think we could keep what we have, and use our "mediocre" status in the SEC to go tear up CUSA, they are dreaming.  We would lose that advantage immediately, and get a different caliber of athlete to campus. 

Man...I can't believe I get sucked into this debate over and over.  It's pointless, because we are not going to be in a conference with TX where they have a bigger hammer than everyone else.  It won't happen, so these discussions are pointless to begin with. 

But while we're at it...maybe with the way the Royals are struggling this season, they should drop back to AAA where they can win every game.   ::) 

I am convinced there are several on here who want to be in the Big 12 because they want to play Texas. They can not move past the swc days they grew up on, and would rather play Texas 12 times a year if they could, than be where the Hogs are. It is why every time the topic of ooc games comes up we get the same old " Lets play Texas every year " or " lets get a rotation of Texas, Baylor, SMU, Houston going " or my favorite " its got to be two Texas teams every year ".
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Bubba's Bruisers

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #149 on: June 07, 2018, 12:58:33 pm »

I am convinced there are several on here who want to be in the Big 12 because they want to play Texas. They can not move past the swc days they grew up on, and would rather play Texas 12 times a year if they could, than be where the Hogs are. It is why every time the topic of ooc games comes up we get the same old " Lets play Texas every year " or " lets get a rotation of Texas, Baylor, SMU, Houston going " or my favorite " its got to be two Texas teams every year ".

I think you're not a real Hog fan if you don't think the same way. 
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