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Author Topic: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?  (Read 5318 times)

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Sweet Feet

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The biggest benefit from Arkansas joining the SEC is the money grab. But outside of money and facilities, has being in the SEC benefited the Hogs in any way on the football field? I don't recall this much disappointment and feeling of mediocrity in the SWC days. And no this isn't a "Arkansas needs to go to the Big 12" debate. But im just asking what have the Hogs benefitted from in regards to the on-the-field product as as SEC member over the years.

Poker_hog

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 06:48:04 pm »

For 10 years or so we had an AD that thought winning was secondary.  It was ok for a coach to take 5 years to turn around the program.  Going 6-6 in  a coach's second year was considered ahead of schedule. 

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LZH

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 07:21:47 pm »

Texas!
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Porkys Revenge

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 07:29:24 pm »

Absolutely nothing.

hawganatic

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 07:39:32 pm »

We have a new AD and a new coach.  What's your point?

Start looking forward to what this program can be and stop judging it by the past.  The people responsible for that disappointment and mediocrity are no longer part of the program.

Pig in the Pokey

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 07:43:28 pm »

honestly, we've been rent-a-wins for the Big 6 in the SEC.

NuttinItUp

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 07:50:39 pm »

honestly, we've been rent-a-wins for the Big 6 in the SEC.
Besides Alabama, who are the other of the "Big 6" in the SEC?

Bubba's Bruisers

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 07:57:56 pm »

I'm not convinced we'd have fared measurably better in the field had we been in the Big12.  All else being equal, grab the money.

daprospecta

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 08:08:26 pm »

For 10 years or so we had an AD that thought winning was secondary.  It was ok for a coach to take 5 years to turn around the program.  Going 6-6 in  a coach's second year was considered ahead of schedule. 
As much as I thought CBB should have been fired, we were a hell of a team at 6-6. It was the closest we've come to beaten Alabama in years. Only thing we didn't know at the time was how much NFL talent was on that team.
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 10:08:03 pm »

honestly, we've been rent-a-wins for the Big 6 in the SEC.

Besides Alabama, who are the other of the "Big 6" in the SEC?

What he said....
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go hogues

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 01:43:38 am »

I'm not convinced we'd have fared measurably better in the field had we been in the Big12.  All else being equal, grab the money.
This
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ncrebel

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 07:26:04 am »

Why do you create the same thread every 3 months? 

arkirish

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 08:17:18 am »

For 10 years or so we had an AD that thought winning was secondary.  It was ok for a coach to take 5 years to turn around the program.  Going 6-6 in  a coach's second year was considered ahead of schedule.

Continuing this dumb rhetoric are we? He said Arkansas is not a win at all costs program, there is zero wrong with that statement. It doesn't mean Arkansas doesn't care about winning or it isn't a priority. Outside of football Arkansas athletics are in a very good/strong position in almost every sport.
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twistitup

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 08:42:13 am »

Making the correct hiring choices has nothing to do with SEC money....and everything to do with leadership (or lack-thereof )

NuttinItUp

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 09:35:46 am »

Making the correct hiring choices has nothing to do with SEC money....and everything to do with leadership (or lack-thereof )

Has the SEC money improved concession stand food at the games at all?

HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 11:20:35 am »

The biggest benefit from Arkansas joining the SEC is the money grab. But outside of money and facilities, has being in the SEC benefited the Hogs in any way on the football field? I don't recall this much disappointment and feeling of mediocrity in the SWC days. And no this isn't a "Arkansas needs to go to the Big 12" debate. But im just asking what have the Hogs benefitted from in regards to the on-the-field product as as SEC member over the years.
That's an intelligent question, and the answer is: not much.
It's great for your 'business' as an athletic program, and hardly anyone would turn that down. Just look at all these teams playing 'money' games on the road for the right to get drilled by someone. Why? Because they need the money for their athletic department.
So overall it was a good move by the UA. Financial security is a great thing, no matter who you're talking about: individual, corporation, school, etc.

But no, it doesn't really mean much translating to wins on the field. Every SEC team is getting the same money. They all have built-in advantages in recruiting that are there regardless of the money, so that doesn't change. Since these are the teams we have to play, the money doesn't help us. It's not like we can take the money and use it for facilities, coaches, etc and then play other teams from other conferences all year.
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Al Boarland

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 11:37:49 am »

That's an intelligent question, and the answer is: not much.
It's great for your 'business' as an athletic program, and hardly anyone would turn that down. Just look at all these teams playing 'money' games on the road for the right to get drilled by someone. Why? Because they need the money for their athletic department.
So overall it was a good move by the UA. Financial security is a great thing, no matter who you're talking about: individual, corporation, school, etc.

But no, it doesn't really mean much translating to wins on the field. Every SEC team is getting the same money. They all have built-in advantages in recruiting that are there regardless of the money, so that doesn't change. Since these are the teams we have to play, the money doesn't help us. It's not like we can take the money and use it for facilities, coaches, etc and then play other teams from other conferences all year.

This. If we were in the BIG now no one would be lobbying to join the SEC.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 11:40:07 am »

Besides Alabama, who are the other of the "Big 6" in the SEC?
Big 6 is
Bama
Florida
LSU
Georgia
Auburn  and







Tennessee .   Yeah, should be a big 5.


We actually have a claim for right about 7th, provided we can get over the Clown/Fatty fiasco. We were right there 6 years ago.

NuttinItUp

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 11:41:54 am »

This. If we were in the BIG now no one would be lobbying to join the SEC.

I sure as heck would. You are telling me you would want to go play in all these locations every year? (too cold, long distance, no real rivals, no culture fit, etc.) Arkansas would be very out of place.



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HF#1

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 11:53:02 am »

Why exclude facilities?
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 12:27:45 pm »

Big 6 is
Bama
Florida
LSU
Georgia
Auburn  and







Tennessee .   Yeah, should be a big 5.


We actually have a claim for right about 7th, provided we can get over the Clown/Fatty fiasco. We were right there 6 years ago.



Last I checked, we stomped Florida 31-10 last time we played them.
And even the inept CBB went 2-3 against LSU.


I would hardly call us a rent-a-win for those teams.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 12:37:13 pm »



Last I checked, we stomped Florida 31-10 last time we played them.
And even the inept CBB went 2-3 against LSU.


I would hardly call us a rent-a-win for those teams.

Apparently this "Big 6" thing is based on teams who have won an SEC title.

https://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2015/7/1/8879203/the-southeastern-conference-big-six-who-is-historically-the-best

Perhaps if the 2006 championship game had gone differently, we would be included in such lists?
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HogPharmer

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 12:43:15 pm »

Apparently this "Big 6" thing is based on teams who have won an SEC title.

https://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2015/7/1/8879203/the-southeastern-conference-big-six-who-is-historically-the-best

Perhaps if the 2006 championship game had gone differently, we would be included in such lists?

It's not that term I don't agree with, it's the "Rent-a-Win" part that doesn't hold water.



I suppose it depends on the timeline we're looking at. I was looking at somewhat recent history (Bielema era).
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Nashville Fan

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 12:59:24 pm »

So if by some strange occurrence AR wins the SEC championship game with only one loss - there is a 100% chance that AR will get an invite to play in the NC Playoff.  That is a benefit that OSU, TCU and Baylor would like.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 01:01:26 pm »

It's not that term I don't agree with, it's the "Rent-a-Win" part that doesn't hold water.



I suppose it depends on the timeline we're looking at. I was looking at somewhat recent history (Bielema era).

We are certainly not a "rent-a-win" or a "cupcake" or anything else. Those phrases should be reserved for the likes of UL-Monroe, Alcorn State, etc. who are paid large sums of money by larger teams (like us) for almost-guaranteed wins. ("almost-guaranteed" because we all know there is the occasional Toledo that comes up and bites you) I don't think any of the other teams in the SEC look at us like that.
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 01:07:26 pm »

The biggest benefit from Arkansas joining the SEC is the money grab. But outside of money and facilities, has being in the SEC benefited the Hogs in any way on the football field? I don't recall this much disappointment and feeling of mediocrity in the SWC days. And no this isn't a "Arkansas needs to go to the Big 12" debate. But im just asking what have the Hogs benefitted from in regards to the on-the-field product as as SEC member over the years.
What is Arkansas' conference record in the SWC? What is Arkansas' conference record in the SEC?

What was the campus stadium like while in the SWC? What is it like now?

How much did the AD and the head coach and his staff make in salaries while in the SWC? How much after joining the SEC?

What were ticket prices in 1991? What is ticket price now?

What percentage of the time did the team finish the season ranked in top 20 or 25 while in the SWC, from JFB's first year? What is that percentage for the quarter century of SEC play?

What is student body count now vs in 1991? And has the football program been a major contributor to the increase? Administrations at TCU and Baylor claim their student body growth is in large part due to emphasis on football and resulting football success in past 10 or 15 years.



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twistitup

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 04:10:57 pm »

Has the SEC money improved concession stand food at the games at all?

Sadly, it has not. Some of money needs to be earmarked for concessions.

Athog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 04:46:37 pm »

We have a new AD and a new coach.  What's your point?

Start looking forward to what this program can be and stop judging it by the past.  The people responsible for that disappointment and mediocrity are no longer part of the program.

Great point! Let’s quit the “poor little Arkansaw” mentality! If it is even the reason at all it is all in the past!
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 05:14:26 pm »

being a relatively younger guy, all I've known is the SEC days, so I can't comment if it feels different, but I do know that I prefer playing against the best even if we aren't the best at the moment. and I have no interest in being in a different conference.

moving to arkansas to the SEC was one of the best strategic decisions Frank made.

if we win a championship in the SEC it will be because we earned it, not because we played one real opponent that year and lucked into a win.

CFB_Fanatic

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 06:06:29 pm »

I'm not convinced we'd have fared measurably better in the field had we been in the Big12.  All else being equal, grab the money.

Bull. We’d have played for the National Championship if we’d have been in the Big12 when Petrino was here. We would’ve lost, but that’s higher profile than we’ve ever been in the SEC. Plus we’d have likely won some conference titles, something we can’t and won’t do in the SEC. Right now, the only team in the Big12 that’s a consistent legitimate threat is OU. Texas is as bad as us, KState is faltering, TTech is inconsistent at best and Baylor has bit the dust. We’d easily be a top 3 team annually in the Big12, especially with A&M and Mizzou jumping ship.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2018, 06:23:14 pm »

Bull. We’d have played for the National Championship if we’d have been in the Big12 when Petrino was here. We would’ve lost, but that’s higher profile than we’ve ever been in the SEC. Plus we’d have likely won some conference titles, something we can’t and won’t do in the SEC. Right now, the only team in the Big12 that’s a consistent legitimate threat is OU. Texas is as bad as us, KState is faltering, TTech is inconsistent at best and Baylor has bit the dust. We’d easily be a top 3 team annually in the Big12, especially with A&M and Mizzou jumping ship.
and we would be top dog in CUSA as well. 

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle, but you shall be the miracle."

Phillips Brooks
US Episcopal bishop (1835 - 1893)

Porkys Revenge

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2018, 06:42:37 pm »

Bull. We’d have played for the National Championship if we’d have been in the Big12 when Petrino was here. We would’ve lost, but that’s higher profile than we’ve ever been in the SEC. Plus we’d have likely won some conference titles, something we can’t and won’t do in the SEC. Right now, the only team in the Big12 that’s a consistent legitimate threat is OU. Texas is as bad as us, KState is faltering, TTech is inconsistent at best and Baylor has bit the dust. We’d easily be a top 3 team annually in the Big12, especially with A&M and Mizzou jumping ship.
Being in the SEC has cost us 2 national titles and a well deserved Heisman winner. I’m totally over it and things like the border line rivalry.
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bythelake

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2018, 06:58:17 pm »

How in the heck do you’ll get sucked into sweet feet’s web?  All his threads are at his pleasure.  Certainly not a Razorback fan.  Figure it out my friends.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2018, 07:31:56 pm »

How in the heck do you’ll get sucked into sweet feet’s web?  All his threads are at his pleasure.  Certainly not a Razorback fan.  Figure it out my friends.

I mean, do you have an actual answer to his question? Just curious.
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bythelake

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2018, 07:53:04 pm »

Certainly I have an answer.

Arkansas is in the sec, will not change. 

The money has accomplished much.  Hopefully I don’t have to spell that out for you.

Overall our athletic program is easily top notch.  Male and female.  Academic infrastructure is second to none. 

Yes football has its severe valleys and peaks.  Guess mostly valleys.   But I and many others will be in the stands waiting for the peak.

At least our athletic department doesn’t suck money in student fees or rely on state funding.

See how this back and forth is fruitless.  Arkansas is not leaving the sec, got it.  So carry on.

RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2018, 07:55:03 pm »

Certainly I have an answer.

Arkansas is in the sec, will not change. 

The money has accomplished much.  Hopefully I don’t have to spell that out for you.

Overall our athletic program is easily top notch.  Male and female.  Academic infrastructure is second to none. 

Yes football has its severe valleys and peaks.  Guess mostly valleys.   But I and many others will be in the stands waiting for the peak.

At least our athletic department doesn’t suck money in student fees or rely on state funding.

See how this back and forth is fruitless.  Arkansas is not leaving the sec, got it.  So carry on.

He never said a word about Arkansas leaving the SEC. You mention that twice as though it was his argument.
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PorkSoda

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2018, 08:03:07 pm »

He never said a word about Arkansas leaving the SEC. You mention that twice as though it was his argument.
what is his argument then?
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bythelake

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2018, 08:04:18 pm »

Look a little closer. 

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PonderinHog

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2018, 08:08:29 pm »

and we would be top dog in CUSA as well. 

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle, but you shall be the miracle."

Phillips Brooks
US Episcopal bishop (1835 - 1893)
That guy didn't have to play in the SEC!

bythelake

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2018, 08:16:34 pm »

Dam pondering,  perfect.  Sometimes your genius stands out. 

Thanks
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2018, 08:19:30 pm »

Dam pondering,  perfect.  Sometimes your genius stands out. 

Thanks
Very rarely.....
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HoginMemphis

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2018, 08:48:47 pm »

being a relatively younger guy, all I've known is the SEC days, so I can't comment if it feels different, but I do know that I prefer playing against the best even if we aren't the best at the moment. and I have no interest in being in a different conference.

moving to arkansas to the SEC was one of the best strategic decisions Frank made.

if we win a championship in the SEC it will be because we earned it, not because we played one real opponent that year and lucked into a win.
At the moment? Look, if you or any other fan enjoy being in the SEC, that is totally fine. But don't kid yourself. Arkansas is out of its "league". We have a losing SEC record by a good margin over the past quarter century. Win % is around 40%. Not over just 7 or 8 seasons, but over 25 seasons. We have had 3, maybe 4, decent seasons in 25 years. And by decent, I mean nationally competitive.
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bythelake

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2018, 08:49:54 pm »

Very rarely.....

I relate it more of a Forrest gump genius. 😒
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2018, 09:05:12 pm »

The biggest benefit from Arkansas joining the SEC is the money grab. But outside of money and facilities, has being in the SEC benefited the Hogs in any way on the football field? I don't recall this much disappointment and feeling of mediocrity in the SWC days. And no this isn't a "Arkansas needs to go to the Big 12" debate. But im just asking what have the Hogs benefitted from in regards to the on-the-field product as as SEC member over the years.

We play on the biggest stage every week, and every game is on TV.  That's one...exposure.  The other is, we have the finances and resources to compete for the absolute best athletes.  Whether we get them or not, and whether we can coach them up well enough to beat the best teams, is not the point.  The point is....if we were beating up on C-USA opponents every week, we would never be in a position to compete for a NC.  So....our fans would be up in arms about being the flagship university, and not even being in a power 5 conference, trapped, with no chance to win anything meaningful. So....there's always two sides to ever coin.

I know people love to dream about going to the Big 12, but that's not going to happen.  It's not even worth aguing whether or not we would be more successful there in terms of wins and losses.  People forget...we lived under TX's shadow, and their shadow has only gotten larger in recent years. I can't see any way we're going back to do that.  I never say never, but it would take heroic measures to establish more equity, and provide a tangible benefit for us to make that move. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2018, 09:08:55 pm »

At the moment? Look, if you or any other fan enjoy being in the SEC, that is totally fine. But don't kid yourself. Arkansas is out of its "league". We have a losing SEC record by a good margin over the past quarter century. Win % is around 40%. Not over just 7 or 8 seasons, but over 25 seasons. We have had 3, maybe 4, decent seasons in 25 years. And by decent, I mean nationally competitive.

Nationally competitive.  That's something Memphis cannot be.  There's a long list of other schools in the same boat.  We've PROVEN that we can be competitive in the SEC.  We've seen teams like Clemson show that getting the right coach, and some things falling into place, can thrust programs up multiple levels. 

It's fine if you don't think it's likely.  But you WILL NOT convince anyone that it's not possible, because it's been proven that it is.  It's a matter of getting the right coach, and having some things go your way.  Every year, MOST college programs don't have a prayer of winning the NC.  Fact.  Arkansas has the resources to field a program than can.  If we don't win one, then we'll be like most other programs. 
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carolinahogger

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2018, 09:23:02 pm »

There are a lot of answers to questions other than the one simple question that the OP asked.

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2018, 09:42:48 pm »

what is his argument then?

I didn't say he had one. I said bythelake mentions it as though it was.

OP doesn't really have an argument, but his post also doesn't read as "we should leave the SEC."

So why address that that's not gonna happen twice?
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2018, 09:54:16 pm »

There are a lot of answers to questions other than the one simple question that the OP asked.

They know the answer to the question, that’s why they avoided it. 
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ricepig

Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2018, 09:57:35 pm »

They know the answer to the question, that’s why they avoided it. 

It's better than being in the SEC without the money. One would assume the OP is saying have should be stayed in the SWC, which of course, no longer exists.
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bphi11ips

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Re: What good has money from the SEC done for the Hogs on the field?
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2018, 10:09:49 pm »

They know the answer to the question, that’s why they avoided it. 

How many times does the question need to be answered? 

If an algorithm can recognize faces, can’t one be developed that sends redundant OP’s directly to Trash?
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