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Author Topic: Khalil Garland update!  (Read 18654 times)

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3kgthog

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2018, 09:42:24 pm »

The UA has already accepted some risk by allowing him to participate in a few activities. Where does this fear of a lawsuit line get drawn? He could just as easily have a fatal episode in one of these mysterious activities heís allowed to take part in.

I think the slow play with KG can all be explained with two words: Garrett Uekman.
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Porked Tongue

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2018, 09:44:41 pm »

Can someone tell me the actual different in 5% and 95%?
90%

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mbgrulz

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2018, 10:17:51 am »

The UA has already accepted some risk by allowing him to participate in a few activities. Where does this fear of a lawsuit line get drawn? He could just as easily have a fatal episode in one of these mysterious activities heís allowed to take part in.

I think the slow play with KG can all be explained with two words: Garrett Uekman.
Thatís a good one with Garrett U. I had forgotten about that, unfortunately. It all depends on the diagnosis and whatís really wrong with his heart. There are many things that can be wrong with the heart. On one hand, the amount of time that has gone by makes it seem like he wonít get cleared...on the other hand, wouldnít they have gotten him off of scholarship by now if there was no hope of getting cleared?
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2018, 11:14:13 am »

Thatís a good one with Garrett U. I had forgotten about that, unfortunately. It all depends on the diagnosis and whatís really wrong with his heart. There are many things that can be wrong with the heart. On one hand, the amount of time that has gone by makes it seem like he wonít get cleared...on the other hand, wouldnít they have gotten him off of scholarship by now if there was no hope of getting cleared?

The exposure from pulling a scholly for that would probably be very detrimental to the school, and certainly not worth the negative exposure it would bring with it.  I'd be willing to bet that even if he's pulled from the roster, he won't pay for a penny of his UA education.  I have no issue with that...it's the right thing to do if he can't play. 
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NoogaHog

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2018, 11:19:40 am »

The exposure from pulling a scholly for that would probably be very detrimental to the school, and certainly not worth the negative exposure it would bring with it.  I'd be willing to bet that even if he's pulled from the roster, he won't pay for a penny of his UA education.  I have no issue with that...it's the right thing to do if he can't play.

I'm sure that would happen if he is unable to play. I'm sure he would be able to keep his scholly, the same deal as Rawleigh Williams.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2018, 11:42:57 am »

Thatís a good one with Garrett U. I had forgotten about that, unfortunately. It all depends on the diagnosis and whatís really wrong with his heart. There are many things that can be wrong with the heart. On one hand, the amount of time that has gone by makes it seem like he wonít get cleared...on the other hand, wouldnít they have gotten him off of scholarship by now if there was no hope of getting cleared?

You are correct. If he had a structural abnormality of his heart identified by echocardiogram (the most likely being hypertrophic cardiomyopathy- essentially a genetic weakness of heart muscle cells (myocytes) resulting in compensatory hypertrophy of the heart) one would expect that he would never be allowed to play or practice due to the well known possibility of sudden death from ventricular arrhythmia. There are no "waivers" or any other assumption of risk actions he or his family could take that would immunize the U of A from lawsuits so it would be, I assume, from a legal standpoint, adios (although they might well let him keep his scholarship as an act of good faith). They might not be sure, even if the echo shows an enlarged heart, that they are dealing with hypertrophic CM (there can be other reasons for the echo appearance) but a heart biopsy would settle that question and I expect Garland and his family would demand one if there was any doubt.

That hasn't happened (i.e. he is still allowed to practice) and that "suggests" the problem is something more ambiguous and they are waiting to see what the effect of time and/or treatment is on the situation. If that is so the more probable thing is that they have identified an isolated "arrhythmia" (abnormal electrical activity) not associated with a clear cut diagnosis or cause and don't really know its significance as far as risk. They may believe it is benign but they will need nearly absolute proof (which will be almost impossible to obtain) before they can take the chance. His activities may reflect the fact that whatever time or treatment has revealed seems to be an improvement. Still, given the stakes if anything happened, the level of certainty they will require to let him play seems a nearly insurmountable barrier. He might come back- I wouldn't count on it.


I guess he went to Mayo earlier for a further opinion and that doesn't seem to have changed the basic conclusion- they just don't seem to have full confidence that he is completely safe if he goes full out. The school doesn't want him to die on the court and they don't want to be responsible for the costs and loss of reputation if he did.

Rock City Razorback

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2018, 01:29:19 pm »

Like others have mentioned, there still appears to be some hope considering he hasn't yet been put on medical hardship. I just think it's a slim to none chance and don't see it happening, as bad as everyone involved (none more so than Khalil and his family) wants it to. And that might be the best thing, honestly. Maybe not for the program, but I've read too many articles of kids collapsing right there on the court and passing away. Nothing is worth that, even playing the game you love. Khalil does seem to have his head squarely on his shoulders, and comes from a supportive family. I have confidence that even if he never suits up for the Hogs, he'll take advantage of the other opportunities and be successful. Nevertheless, fingers crossed for Mr. Garland!
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2018, 03:18:03 pm »

It may not look good that he isn't cleared yet but he also hasn't been ruled out yet either. If the staff has known for some time now that he won't be able to play, why slow play it? Seems like they would have just broken the news and recruited a replacement.


To me, that signals that there is still a chance for good news.
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The_Bionic_Pig

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2018, 03:52:40 pm »

The exposure from pulling a scholly for that would probably be very detrimental to the school, and certainly not worth the negative exposure it would bring with it.  I'd be willing to bet that even if he's pulled from the roster, he won't pay for a penny of his UA education.  I have no issue with that...it's the right thing to do if he can't play. 

Medical Hardship doesn't take away the Universities financial commitment to a student-athlete I believe but it does free up a scholarship....
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2018, 04:10:54 pm »

Medical Hardship doesn't take away the Universities financial commitment to a student-athlete I believe but it does free up a scholarship....

Correct.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2018, 04:47:57 pm »

Medical Hardship doesn't take away the Universities financial commitment to a student-athlete I believe but it does free up a scholarship....

I figured there was some provision for that.  I wish nothing but the best for him however it plays out. 
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sadhogfan

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #111 on: June 08, 2018, 10:34:38 pm »

You are correct. If he had a structural abnormality of his heart identified by echocardiogram (the most likely being hypertrophic cardiomyopathy- essentially a genetic weakness of heart muscle cells (myocytes) resulting in compensatory hypertrophy of the heart) one would expect that he would never be allowed to play or practice due to the well known possibility of sudden death from ventricular arrhythmia. There are no "waivers" or any other assumption of risk actions he or his family could take that would immunize the U of A from lawsuits so it would be, I assume, from a legal standpoint, adios (although they might well let him keep his scholarship as an act of good faith). They might not be sure, even if the echo shows an enlarged heart, that they are dealing with hypertrophic CM (there can be other reasons for the echo appearance) but a heart biopsy would settle that question and I expect Garland and his family would demand one if there was any doubt.

That hasn't happened (i.e. he is still allowed to practice) and that "suggests" the problem is something more ambiguous and they are waiting to see what the effect of time and/or treatment is on the situation. If that is so the more probable thing is that they have identified an isolated "arrhythmia" (abnormal electrical activity) not associated with a clear cut diagnosis or cause and don't really know its significance as far as risk. They may believe it is benign but they will need nearly absolute proof (which will be almost impossible to obtain) before they can take the chance. His activities may reflect the fact that whatever time or treatment has revealed seems to be an improvement. Still, given the stakes if anything happened, the level of certainty they will require to let him play seems a nearly insurmountable barrier. He might come back- I wouldn't count on it.


I guess he went to Mayo earlier for a further opinion and that doesn't seem to have changed the basic conclusion- they just don't seem to have full confidence that he is completely safe if he goes full out. The school doesn't want him to die on the court and they don't want to be responsible for the costs and loss of reputation if he did.

Anyone else find it ironic that this (highly articulate) post was written by "redneckfriend"?

gmarv54

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2018, 09:20:24 am »

Anyone else find it ironic that this (highly articulate) post was written by "redneckfriend"?
I don't,after all it's at a place called hogville. ;D ;D
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BannerMountainMan

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2018, 11:38:49 am »

Anyone else find it ironic that this (highly articulate) post was written by "redneckfriend"?
i think itís weird that sad Hog fan is the one that thinks itís ironic

Arthur pigby sellers.

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #114 on: June 11, 2018, 01:20:00 pm »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2018, 11:56:39 pm »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.
Yeah, but the optics could be really bad. 
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #116 on: June 12, 2018, 11:58:58 am »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.

Imagine you're Mike Anderson though.  Midway through the second half, he collapses and they can't revive him.  "Man, if I had just taken him out for a short rest a minute ago, he might still be alive." 

I just don't see how the University would want the visibility of having something happen unless it is a complete anomaly.  With a known issue, this doesn't fit that scenario, UNLESS he's cleared medically to have very limited, or no more risk than a player without any known issues, it seems unlikely that the UA would risk it. 

What's the first thing you think of when someone talks about a player collapsing?  Hank Gathers, Loyola Maramount.  EVERYONE knows that name and the circumstances around it, and the left handed tribute free throws by his best friend Bo Kimble in the NCAA tournament.  I doubt VERY SERIOUSLY that the UA wants to be thought of in the same regard, even if it's a small percentage chance.   
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rude1

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #117 on: June 12, 2018, 12:04:15 pm »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.
Liability would be the least of the program's worry if they were to do something this dumb. They would pay dearly even if it doesn't  come from a lawsuit.  Exploiting a player's and his family desire to play, resulting in his death would lead to the worse national exposure you have seen, and hiding behind that signed document would only make it worse. All programs would be hurt dearly when they have to go in other kids living room and explain how you will care for their child if they sign with you.

Hawg Red

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2018, 07:52:08 am »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.

It's not strange at all. What is strange to me is that people don't get why that isn't an option and won't be at any university.
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rotaryDial

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2018, 08:37:22 am »

Liability would be the least of the program's worry if they were to do something this dumb. They would pay dearly even if it doesn't  come from a lawsuit.  Exploiting a player's and his family desire to play, resulting in his death would lead to the worse national exposure you have seen, and hiding behind that signed document would only make it worse. All programs would be hurt dearly when they have to go in other kids living room and explain how you will care for their child if they sign with you.

100% correct, liability and risk go way beyond money, but it's even more simple then that.   We are talking about the life of a human being.  Our society has become numb to the loss of human life, it's heartbreaking.  What is even more disappointing is the fans on here encouraging it.  For what? Entertainment or a chance to win a GAME??? You are encouraging the risk of human life for your entertainment, for your happiness?  It's a very sad day when our fan base has become this selfish.  If it was your son, and his Dr said there was a good chance he would die playing the game, would you still encourage it?  Oh Lord, I would hope not.  SMH, wake up razorback fans, you are better than this.

logic

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #120 on: June 16, 2018, 08:46:15 am »

I think itís really strange that a legal document canít be made that allows the player to play in games as long as he assumes the risk that goes along with it. Itís obvious that this is not a cut and dry case or he would have been given a medical waver months ago.  He has been allowed to practice with the team and if he wants to play then let him as long as he fully understand the risks and the university is not held liable in the case of adverse events.
No doubt that is possible. Besides a possible lawsuit is not a problem. Anyone can file a lawsuit for any reason and the UofA would get it dismissed.  The problems are, if he was to die, the media would be hounding the UofA 24/7 and the NCAA might use that to invent an excuse for another 4 year investigation that opposing coaches would use to harm recruiting.
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Arthur pigby sellers.

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #121 on: June 16, 2018, 04:30:44 pm »

Yeah you guys are probably right about that.
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hoglady

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #122 on: June 16, 2018, 05:52:44 pm »

Does anyone really want this kid to risk his life playing basketball for Arkansas?
I'm not interested in watching another Hank Gathers die - one in a lifetime in enough.
What a waste of a young life that was - many of these kids don't know it yet but they can be so much more than basketball players.

thebignasty

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #123 on: June 16, 2018, 06:08:48 pm »

Does anyone really want this kid to risk his life playing basketball for Arkansas?
I'm not interested in watching another Hank Gathers die - one in a lifetime in enough.
What a waste of a young life that was - many of these kids don't know it yet but they can be so much more than basketball players.

Its easy to speculate about whether or not there is a way for the kid to sign a waiver and play on a message board, but I'm with you- if there is some kind of condition that puts someone at an elevated risk to drop dead while playing, I just can't see any way that it makes any sense to take that risk for basketball.
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King Kong

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #124 on: June 16, 2018, 07:29:38 pm »

Does anyone really want this kid to risk his life playing basketball for Arkansas?
I'm not interested in watching another Hank Gathers die - one in a lifetime in enough.
What a waste of a young life that was - many of these kids don't know it yet but they can be so much more than basketball players.

Alittle extreme considering most everything is speculation at this point
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hoglady

Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #125 on: June 16, 2018, 08:01:57 pm »

Alittle extreme considering most everything is speculation at this point

I don't think it's extreme - the kid has been sitting out a year due to an apparent heart issue.
The discussion was about waivers in case he keeled over dead while playing basketball.
That's about as serious as it gets.
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King Kong

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #126 on: June 16, 2018, 10:31:16 pm »

I don't think it's extreme - the kid has been sitting out a year due to an apparent heart issue.
The discussion was about waivers in case he keeled over dead while playing basketball.
That's about as serious as it gets.

We have no confirmation of the issue or the risks. Comparing to a tragedy that maybe a different situation seems unfair IMO. Especially considering at the moment he and the coaching staff havenít publicly ruled his return as unlikely.

In addition Gathers issues although tragic was most likely preventable if he had continued his medication on game days.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Khalil Garland update!
« Reply #127 on: June 17, 2018, 10:02:29 pm »

I don't think it's extreme - the kid has been sitting out a year due to an apparent heart issue.
The discussion was about waivers in case he keeled over dead while playing basketball.
That's about as serious as it gets.

If it's a slight risk this can happen. I hate it but he shouldn't be allowed to play.
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